Border

If we do not have borders can we even be recognized as a nation anymore?.

I think there are points in history that you can look to when imperial overreach lead to serious failures at home. Borders are an essential part of national defense and if we can not control our borders there is really no point in a NSA surveillance program or TSA. Might as well dissolve DHS.

There are people that don't like any immigrants of any race, but to pretend that is the only issue here is a joke. We are seeing the culmination of decades of failed border policy, kicking the can down the road and supporting the status quo mixed with new ince tives from this administration. This admin may have opened the flood gates but all previous admins are responsible for the rising tide.

It is a clusterfuk, and a serious issue.

trust me when i tell you this administration did not "open the floodgates".  the "floodgates" are no more open today than they have been for many years.  the number of people coming through those floodgates was massive when the economy, particularly the housing industry, was booming.  fewer are coming through now than before as companies are not hiring as they were then. 

Club are you really telling me that the dream act and amnesty talk didnt lead to an exodus of minors from s. America?

It could just be ginned up reporting for political purposes, but I think that is a serious stretch.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials in 2013 released 68,000 illegal immigrants with criminal convictions, undercutting Democratic claims that President Obama has strictly enforced immigration laws....

i'm sure it did.  but if you want to talk about pure numbers of people coming over the border in droves, it was when home builders couldn't build (and sell) houses fast enough and other industries (agriculture, services) looking for cheap labor were booming. 

SS, My issue is republicans who DOWNPLAY the race issue. It’s the elephant in the room that is constantly brushed off. Republicans need some kind of an intervention to admit that there is a HUGE problem with racism in the party.

Every time it’s brought up, I hear, oh, great, here goes the race card, again, (followed by a massive eye roll), or screams of hate fueled reverse-racism (Rev. Wright and Al Sharpton are ALWAYS brought up), or a few carefully selected and uncomfortable mumbled words are blurted out the side of their mouths (with a long rushed sigh) to downplay it to change the topic.

There are reasons for this. Support racism, completely naive, denial or afraid to lose voters.

You and WSC hit the nail on the head, though. Both parties are using the issue for political gain. Don actually believes the democrats are a bunch of nuns to the rescue when in actuality it's just a tactic to get current voters and potential voters. I know this is just a democrat tactic for political gain, just like republicans are bringing the stupid immigration issue to the forefront to rile up racial tension votes. It’s one of the many southern strategies.

Maybe it seems as though Republicans downplay the racial issue because they do not see it as a racial issue. I know that I dont

Republicans really need to be more compassionate to the hair trigger sensitivities of minorities. Some will say that the political correctness of people is getting ludicrous. Minoroties don't want to hear that. The Democrats have done a great job in that regard.

But there are always going to be people (some in this very forum) that will play the race card or focus on some sort of identity politics. Those people will never help the situation. They are just there to lob bombs into the mix to destroy productive conversation and debate.

Another thing Obama did to encourage an illegal invasion and children too swarm our Southern border..was after Congress failed to pass the Dream Act, Obama in 2012  initiated a program to defer deportations,for childhood arrivals ..about 2 million of them..

They could obtain valid Social Security numbers and apply for driver’s licenses, professional certificates and financial aid for college. ...

Last year he had his Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency issue a new policy directive directing all ICE personnel to use prosecutorial discretion.. in favor of parents at any stage of an enforcement proceeding.. and leniency in favor of parents is “preferable" … in other words as long as an illegal immigrant can show they have a child in the United States, they can stay....

This is Obama's creeping amnesty ..

Consuela ,,,you hear that ?  Get those kids up there...and we're in like a fat rat in a cheese factory .....

I like what HarrY ReId has talked about recently.  No way should the president be given a blank check for $4B on this .. No way. 

Only the naively uninformed can’t see the parallels between the racial integration protests of the past and the immigration protests of today.

The people who participated in the racial integration protests had children and passed it on to this generation. I say to those who disagree with me to read a book or watch a documentary.

I want the immigration issue fixed but for different reasons. I want to see if democrats could win without the inclusive card. I want to see if republicans could win without the racial card.

Both sides would be forced to win on policy alone. I want to expose both parties just like the masked magician exposes the secrets of famous illusionists.

Identity politics will never allow policy debates.

It is more fortitude than anything else.  Obviously this has been and issue and more or less taken care of before.  If the leaders had the same mentality it could be done almost the exact way again.  Instead both parties have not learned from the previous mistakes.

i could be wrong but i don't think we've ever seen near the number of illegals come across the border than we had probably at its peak around 2007-2008 but still with big numbers into the recession and continuing today

Oh--I think you are absolutely correct. 

This is what I was referring to.  This is what I have been saying---beef up border a tad--crack down on the hiring---do some roundups---and by and large it will take care of itself.  People do not realize how bad it once was.  Especially at a time where heap of regular folks did the immigrant type work.  Check this link out and tell me what you think.  It gives a very general idea of what Ike did.

https://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

that's an interesting article.  i wasn't aware of that.

i have a few comments though about the differences today. 

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

first, we probably shouldn't call it operation wetback.    second, the obvious problem which the article mentions but i'm not sure it fully appreciates is we have so many more today, maybe around 15 million.  1,000 a day sounds like a lot and i'm sure it was in 1954, but it's really not with today's numbers, especially considering that it's fairly futile when they can and do come back./  also, they were a lot newer in 1954 than today.  i think that's relevant becayuse today many of them have been here a few decades, meaning they have kids and families here.  the article talks about many of them going back voluntarily but that's much less likely when they have kids and other family integrated here now.  of course that's another reason why immigration is so much more complicated as time passes.  another issue is back then, i assume, they were mostly concentrated in CA, TX and AZ.  now, they are all over the country in large numbers making them much more difficult to track down and send back. 750 agents was probably pretty good back then for a state or two but spread them out now and they aren't getting much done.  and as we all know, the US has not devoted a lot of resources into the INS (now ICE) to deal with this expanding problem.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

i think this is different as well.  again, when our economy was booming in the early 2000's - 2008 or so, these guys were getting hired left and right and maing more money than generations of their families had ever seen in their 3rd world countries.  so, getting these guys across the borderbecame big business.  before, i believe, many of the immigrants were from mexico and closer to the border.  now, and for at least a decade, there is an entire industry set up to get people from mexico and central american countries to the US or back to the US.  so, in the past, maybe it was a big deterrent to take them back to the middle of mexico but today, they are getting assistance coming here from many of those far away central american countries through mexico.  apparently, it's a brutal trip but, kind of like the gold rush, they see how much better it is here for them and know how much it sucks at home so they do it. 

1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.

2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won't come.

i guess these are the solutions.  i think number one might help a little but their ability to come back is much more streamlined than it was back then.

but of course we can stop at #2.  great idea, but we all know that is a pipe dream.  our politicians have known employers have been hiring these guys for a long time ensuring they'll stay here and make big money (for them) rather than go home and make pennies.  our government won't truly punish these employers for hiring illegals on a large scale.  that's just not how things work here in our system where companies are more important than people as long as elections cost as much as they do.

Those conclusions are correct but as with the border it is impossible and costly to enforce them.