We forget that economies run in cycles, we just havent experienced a trough in the economy because of the FED and their magic wand, so most people dont remember a slowing economy and what it takes to move from one cycle to another.
We need to focus on what we do well, understand that economies go from peak to trough and back again, the best we can do is make good decisions governmentally, invest in technology and R&D and cut spending both as a country and as citizens.
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Shrimp,
We forget that economies run in cycles, we just havent experienced a trough in the economy because of the FED and their magic wand, so most people dont remember a slowing economy and what it takes to move from one cycle to another.
We need to focus on what we do well, understand that economies go from peak to trough and back again, the best we can do is make good decisions governmentally, invest in technology and R&D and cut spending both as a country and as citizens.
Wait.. excuse my ignorance here but is GM importing chinese built cars?
there was some discussion in Ted Koppel's "Peoples Republic of Capitalism" (Ya RIGHT) four part series on The Discovery Channel that the GM Buick plant in China might START importing Chinese made Buicks to America. and there has been talk that Dodge and the Chinese Cherry company might put an assembly plant in Mexico and use NAFTA to dump THEIR crap on the American market.
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Wait.. excuse my ignorance here but is GM importing chinese built cars?
there was some discussion in Ted Koppel's "Peoples Republic of Capitalism" (Ya RIGHT) four part series on The Discovery Channel that the GM Buick plant in China might START importing Chinese made Buicks to America. and there has been talk that Dodge and the Chinese Cherry company might put an assembly plant in Mexico and use NAFTA to dump THEIR crap on the American market.
Wall.... I understand economic cycles but the part which I do not understand is when HUGE business crumbles during the cycles. I do not think that is good.
This year, we've seen Bear Stearns, Indmac, Fannie/Freddie..... I do not want to see the automakers go next.
My services are here and I am ready to volunteer. I'm not an engineer but I can talk cars all day long.
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Wall.... I understand economic cycles but the part which I do not understand is when HUGE business crumbles during the cycles. I do not think that is good.
This year, we've seen Bear Stearns, Indmac, Fannie/Freddie..... I do not want to see the automakers go next.
My services are here and I am ready to volunteer. I'm not an engineer but I can talk cars all day long.
If a business cannot succeed and not profitable then much like natural selection, those businesses which are unable to exist for whatever the reason are eliminated, just like with the human race.
F and GM really dont deserve to exist and should not be propped in the name of nationalism.
If they want to succeed and survive they must discover what they are doing wrong, and adapt or go out of business.
It is just part of a free market supply and demand, those businesses which cannot make a profit or are inferior will not survive..plenty of examples over the years of great businesses which failed and this is no different.
F and GM have put out inferior products for decades, we dont need to reward mediocracy.
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Shrimp,
If a business cannot succeed and not profitable then much like natural selection, those businesses which are unable to exist for whatever the reason are eliminated, just like with the human race.
F and GM really dont deserve to exist and should not be propped in the name of nationalism.
If they want to succeed and survive they must discover what they are doing wrong, and adapt or go out of business.
It is just part of a free market supply and demand, those businesses which cannot make a profit or are inferior will not survive..plenty of examples over the years of great businesses which failed and this is no different.
F and GM have put out inferior products for decades, we dont need to reward mediocracy.
Wall- I'm going to dinner now but I would like to finish this conversation later. You know where I'm coming from in that we need to have some circuit breakers or planning or something.
I love Ford products, mostly trucks and that bothers me that they just vanish like that.
Thanks for all your responses by the way.
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Wall- I'm going to dinner now but I would like to finish this conversation later. You know where I'm coming from in that we need to have some circuit breakers or planning or something.
I love Ford products, mostly trucks and that bothers me that they just vanish like that.
Shrimp - You call for protectionism - in the end the public (consumer) loses everytime
Detroit legacy automakers have been incompetent for decades and should be the recipients of a "bailout" which is exactly what an import tax would be...
Until Ford/GM/Chrysler can shed themselves of the UAW, they will continue to get their asses handed to them.
I buy american, but I look at all. We as consumers really should all do the same, but it's your money to do as you please.
Toyota is without any doubt the very best run car company in the world, and they are reaping the benefits of that. I used to work for Toyota Motor Manufacturing. My only knock is that designs are always lacking and taking a follow the leaders as to styling trends, etc. 95% of all Toyotas sold here are built here. Thats using american labor, and 90%+ of North American content. I hold no loyalty to GM over Toyota based on origin. Toyota is very much an American car in my opinion. Honda as well for that matter.
But NO, once again government intervention and taxes are not the answer here, as it is never the answer.
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Shrimp - You call for protectionism - in the end the public (consumer) loses everytime
Detroit legacy automakers have been incompetent for decades and should be the recipients of a "bailout" which is exactly what an import tax would be...
Until Ford/GM/Chrysler can shed themselves of the UAW, they will continue to get their asses handed to them.
I buy american, but I look at all. We as consumers really should all do the same, but it's your money to do as you please.
Toyota is without any doubt the very best run car company in the world, and they are reaping the benefits of that. I used to work for Toyota Motor Manufacturing. My only knock is that designs are always lacking and taking a follow the leaders as to styling trends, etc. 95% of all Toyotas sold here are built here. Thats using american labor, and 90%+ of North American content. I hold no loyalty to GM over Toyota based on origin. Toyota is very much an American car in my opinion. Honda as well for that matter.
But NO, once again government intervention and taxes are not the answer here, as it is never the answer.
Why should anyone bail out guys like poor old Bob Lutz?
The detroit auto industry ruled the automobile world once upon a time and they shit it all away. With everything from arrogance, greed, lobbying, unions with too much power, etc.
Consumers demand better. And If Toyota makes a better product then power to them.
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Why should anyone bail out guys like poor old Bob Lutz?
The detroit auto industry ruled the automobile world once upon a time and they shit it all away. With everything from arrogance, greed, lobbying, unions with too much power, etc.
Consumers demand better. And If Toyota makes a better product then power to them.
I will disagree. FAIR markets work because in your so called "FREE" market, American industry is competing against government subsidised foreign companies. good examples are Boeing vs Airbus in commercial aircraft manufacturing and America vs China in the basic steel industry
poor, overreaching Unions don't
unions are monster that management created back at the turn of the last century by trying to squeeze every drop of blood from their workers AND, even more important, not caring about worker safety. the UMW, USW and ALPA are all classic examples of the latter because the Coal, Steel and the early US Air Mail contractors were killing their workers like flys.
progressive capitalists like Henry Ford were able to keep the unions out of their plants for many years because they gave their workers fair wages and benefits with safe working conditions. they also realised that IF they paid their workers a decent wage they would not only have a stable workforce BUT those same workers could also afford to by their product.
this country was probably at it's economic zenith in the 1950's and 60's when there was a relative balance between the power of management and labor in most industries. unions were THE major reason that America developed a great middle class in the 20th century BUT I will agree that when unions "overreach" and esp when they use their power to negotiate "feather bed" contracts then "Big Labor" is no better than "Big Business".
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Free market works
I will disagree. FAIR markets work because in your so called "FREE" market, American industry is competing against government subsidised foreign companies. good examples are Boeing vs Airbus in commercial aircraft manufacturing and America vs China in the basic steel industry
poor, overreaching Unions don't
unions are monster that management created back at the turn of the last century by trying to squeeze every drop of blood from their workers AND, even more important, not caring about worker safety. the UMW, USW and ALPA are all classic examples of the latter because the Coal, Steel and the early US Air Mail contractors were killing their workers like flys.
progressive capitalists like Henry Ford were able to keep the unions out of their plants for many years because they gave their workers fair wages and benefits with safe working conditions. they also realised that IF they paid their workers a decent wage they would not only have a stable workforce BUT those same workers could also afford to by their product.
this country was probably at it's economic zenith in the 1950's and 60's when there was a relative balance between the power of management and labor in most industries. unions were THE major reason that America developed a great middle class in the 20th century BUT I will agree that when unions "overreach" and esp when they use their power to negotiate "feather bed" contracts then "Big Labor" is no better than "Big Business".
oh, and when you have the US Air Force proposing to buy that DOG of an Airbus A330 as a tanker, this government is starting to outsource our national security. what's next? Mig 29's and Sukhoi 30's from Russia? maybe the US Navy could replace their aging FA-18 Hornets with the new Suhkoi 33 fleet defense multirole fighter? hell, the steel to make American warships already comes from China
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also most foreign countrys have tariffs on American manufactured products while this country allows them to dump their exports here duty free.
oh, and when you have the US Air Force proposing to buy that DOG of an Airbus A330 as a tanker, this government is starting to outsource our national security. what's next? Mig 29's and Sukhoi 30's from Russia? maybe the US Navy could replace their aging FA-18 Hornets with the new Suhkoi 33 fleet defense multirole fighter? hell, the steel to make American warships already comes from China
I will disagree. FAIR markets work because in your so called "FREE" market, American industry is competing against government subsidised foreign companies. good examples are Boeing vs Airbus in commercial aircraft manufacturing and America vs China in the basic steel industry
American auto industry should not be limited to Detroit companies, but should include Toyota, Honda, etc, any company that is making automobiles in America. Free market says that if another country is willing to pay ("subsidize") the making of cars we drive, we should let them and move current Detroit autoworkers into more productive jobs. This is where the struggle/disconnect is. We don't need to "save auto jobs" for autoworkers, we need to find jobs for autoworkers in places outside "auto jobs"
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Quote Originally Posted by LeRinkRat:
I will disagree. FAIR markets work because in your so called "FREE" market, American industry is competing against government subsidised foreign companies. good examples are Boeing vs Airbus in commercial aircraft manufacturing and America vs China in the basic steel industry
American auto industry should not be limited to Detroit companies, but should include Toyota, Honda, etc, any company that is making automobiles in America. Free market says that if another country is willing to pay ("subsidize") the making of cars we drive, we should let them and move current Detroit autoworkers into more productive jobs. This is where the struggle/disconnect is. We don't need to "save auto jobs" for autoworkers, we need to find jobs for autoworkers in places outside "auto jobs"
American auto industry should not be limited to Detroit companies, but should include Toyota, Honda, etc, any company that is making automobiles in America. Free market says that if another country is willing to pay ("subsidize") the making of cars we drive, we should let them and move current Detroit autoworkers into more productive jobs. This is where the struggle/disconnect is. We don't need to "save auto jobs" for autoworkers, we need to find jobs for autoworkers in places outside "auto jobs"
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Why would this excite you?
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Quote Originally Posted by Grego:
American auto industry should not be limited to Detroit companies, but should include Toyota, Honda, etc, any company that is making automobiles in America. Free market says that if another country is willing to pay ("subsidize") the making of cars we drive, we should let them and move current Detroit autoworkers into more productive jobs. This is where the struggle/disconnect is. We don't need to "save auto jobs" for autoworkers, we need to find jobs for autoworkers in places outside "auto jobs"
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Why would this excite you?
Becuase if they can do it better and cheaper than the alternative, I have more money to spend on other things, many of which would be 100% American. You cannot look at one market in a vacuum.
Those same Japanese automakers hire American works, drivers, shipping companies, finance through American institutions, invest their profits in other American companies and pay taxes on all of this. What would not exicite me about this?
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Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Why would this excite you?
Becuase if they can do it better and cheaper than the alternative, I have more money to spend on other things, many of which would be 100% American. You cannot look at one market in a vacuum.
Those same Japanese automakers hire American works, drivers, shipping companies, finance through American institutions, invest their profits in other American companies and pay taxes on all of this. What would not exicite me about this?
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Why would this excite you?
3
I can only assume you just make this shit up. I worked in TMM Purchasing in Erlanger KY for 4 years. One of the priorities was localization, and we understood that Honda had the same priorities (we had former Honda buyers). When I left Toyota we had an aggregate of over 90% localization of all vehicles, and the big 3 were trailing at closer to 80%.
Why do you make things up?
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Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:
Do you realize that the Japanese automaakers use more imported parts?
Do you realize that the profits are sent overseas?
Why would this excite you?
3
I can only assume you just make this shit up. I worked in TMM Purchasing in Erlanger KY for 4 years. One of the priorities was localization, and we understood that Honda had the same priorities (we had former Honda buyers). When I left Toyota we had an aggregate of over 90% localization of all vehicles, and the big 3 were trailing at closer to 80%.
OK as for profits, there IS a profit per vehicle on the Toyotas and Hondas because they know how to design, manufacture and market vehicles more efficiently. That profit per vehicle is under 10% of the dealer invoice, which means... stick with me here... over 90% stays consumed in labor and over 90% localized content which means more money developed in our local economy.
As for the less than 10% that is sent "overseas", well that goes to shareholders. Are there significant shareholders in Japan? Of course. How about USA? BIG SHAREHOLDERS here as well. You could be one too if you are so angry with the profits of well run international companies.
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Profits are sent overseas???
OMG you must have a 4th grade education.
OK as for profits, there IS a profit per vehicle on the Toyotas and Hondas because they know how to design, manufacture and market vehicles more efficiently. That profit per vehicle is under 10% of the dealer invoice, which means... stick with me here... over 90% stays consumed in labor and over 90% localized content which means more money developed in our local economy.
As for the less than 10% that is sent "overseas", well that goes to shareholders. Are there significant shareholders in Japan? Of course. How about USA? BIG SHAREHOLDERS here as well. You could be one too if you are so angry with the profits of well run international companies.
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