would you have made this call

im leanin to the call but like you said i woudlnt be crazy about it.  it is only 20 dollars and ppl are pretty loose early on it was quite possible he was shoving on some sort of draw himself.  you win you got a lot of chips early lose you lose.  i like taking chances to get chips early in tournies myself

wouldn't you count 20 outs unless you knew your opponent was holding the ladies?

But either way i would call that all day on a monster draw, gut shot  straight, royal flush, flush draw. You made the right call, nything over 14 outs puts you in a good spot. Everybody made the right decisions, just didn't hit any of your many outs lol.

Sorry i meant 19 outs:

9 diamonds, 4 Q's, 3 Aces & 3 Kings = 19??

3ball, 18 outs, you are counting the Queen of diamonds twice

I am such a donk all this time i've been counting 1 card too many , cheers for clearing that up Godfather16

Well after the flop you are actually a 56% to 44% favorite.
Once you seen he had queens you had 16 outs that would save you (9 diamonds 3 Kings , 3 aces and 1 Queen ,I counted the other Queen into the 9 diamonds)

Now should you call or not?

You have to think about what he could have had to figure that out.

If he had pocket 6's or 10's or jacks and flopped trips you would would be 34% to 66% to lose.

If had flopped two pairs like Jacks and Tens or Jacks and sixes or 10's and sixes you would also you would be about 42% to 57% to lose.

If he had pocket Kings you would be 55% to 44% to win

If he had say Q9 of diamonds and also had a flush draw you would be a 70% to 30% to win.

The last hand that he would make that move with is the one he had QQ and you were 56% to 44% to win .

I cant see him making that move with any other hand than the ones I mentioned even if he had KQ and was opened ended he wouldnt have push all in with 2 diamonds on the board.So now lets look at what you could have beat


If he had

QQ you were 56% to 44% win
J 10 you were 42% to 57% to lose
J 6  you were 42% to 57% to lose
10 6 you were 42% to 57% to lose
Q9 of Diamonds 70% to 30% to win
JJ  34% to 66% to lose
10 10 34% to 66% to lose
66 34% to 66% to lose
a total bluff 90% to 10% to win

So there are 6 hands you are a underdog to beat and only 2 you are a favorite to beat if you throw out the bluff .

So you should have folded.The best you could have hoped for was a coin flip and I am not one to put all my chips in unless I think I'm ahead The reason some people are saying to call is that they know what the other guy had and know you were a favorite.

Before making a call for all your chips you have to do this exact same thing and think about all the hands you can and cannot beat.I know this is a lot to think about thats why you have a 60 time bank.
Its alot of numbers to run in your head but it may make the difference between making a big cash or not.

GL man

bigamer is your table image tight?? & there's nothing wrong with laying down here if it's not your style and it works for you in the long run but i've seen pro's call on a monster draw all day long. I know for certain Negreanu would, a tutorial i read of his stating any hand that gives you over 14 outs = monster draw giving you a lot of cards to hit and your in an even better spot when you have to make the decision to call on the flop with 2 streets left ......This particular tip has helped me in making decisions and have profited from it, though i also consider pot odds and in this instance he is called for all his chips so i understand why you would opt to lay down here early in the tourny.

But give me 14 outs or more with the decision made on the flop and i'm all over that pot every time.

Actually I am very much the opposite. I am a very loose player but when it comes down to a decision for all my chips I am tight and won't call unless the percentages say I am ahead.Plus I rarely put all my chips at risk on a draw.

Ok I'll go with your 14 out rule for a minute .Let take the hands the person could have had and see how many outs he would have had.I gave the percents but I'll do these also.

If he had :

QQ  he had 16 outs
KK  he had 15 puts
J 10  he had 12 outs
J 6    he had 12 outs
10 6  he had 12 outs
Q9 of Diamonds  he had 16 outs
JJ   he had 12 outs
10 10 he had 12 outs
66 he had 12 outs

So again in only 3 out of the possible 9 hands he could have had did you have 14 outs or more. So your argument of the 14 out rule still doesn't give him a reason to call in this instance.If you make money doing this then keep doing it thats why we play .

To each his own. Everyone is free to make whatever calls they want but I don't know why you would want to put all your chips at risk when there's only a 3 out of 9 chance you are ahead.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play poker ,that's not why I'm here.But the person who started the thread asked if you would have made the call .I gave my opinion as no but that doesn't mean I am right in everyone else's eyes.

If we all played poker the same it sure would be easy to predict

Making the right decision at the right time is what poker is all about and if we all played the same poker would be very much a predictable game so agreed bigamer


But i assume if you dominated your opponent's chip stack by a large margin you would make this call easy.

Yes you are correct !!

If I had say 2500 to his 1500 I would have instantly made the call but since it was for all my chips the decision changes.

That's just the way I am . Like I said I am a loose player but when its for all my chips I am very tight, if its for half my chips then I say lets gamble.