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    All Forums | Poker

    Should I have just pushed preflop?

    coverditty
    HutchEmAll
    Seldombeter
    Sharkysden
    SportsFan8890
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    coverditty
    coverditty
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    Posted: May. 25, 2008 - 11:31 PM ET #1

    Local tourney had to qualify for playing at multiple places....
     
    8 people at table, start with 10k in chips, 160 to start about 50 people left. I have 24k in chips, blinds 1k and 2k, sitting 1 space to left of dealer.
     
    small blind and big blind have well over 45k in chips.
     
    everyone folds to me, whole cards AQ of hearts.
    I raise to 5.5k, dealer folds, small blind and big blind hesitantly call. Qs, 3c, 9d flop...small blind bets 6k, big blind calls, i go all in for my remaining 18.5, both call
     
    turn 3s, river 10h
     
    small blind Ad 9d, big blind wins Qd 10s
     
    so now that i think back, knowing that the they had almost 2x the chips i had...should i have just pushed em all in preflop , do you think a suited A or Q10 off would call for half the stack? or did I play it right and just accept that the guy hit a 3 outer?
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    Local tourney had to qualify for playing at multiple places....
     
    8 people at table, start with 10k in chips, 160 to start about 50 people left. I have 24k in chips, blinds 1k and 2k, sitting 1 space to left of dealer.
     
    small blind and big blind have well over 45k in chips.
     
    everyone folds to me, whole cards AQ of hearts.
    I raise to 5.5k, dealer folds, small blind and big blind hesitantly call. Qs, 3c, 9d flop...small blind bets 6k, big blind calls, i go all in for my remaining 18.5, both call
     
    turn 3s, river 10h
     
    small blind Ad 9d, big blind wins Qd 10s
     
    so now that i think back, knowing that the they had almost 2x the chips i had...should i have just pushed em all in preflop , do you think a suited A or Q10 off would call for half the stack? or did I play it right and just accept that the guy hit a 3 outer?
     
    coverditty
    coverditty
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    Posted: May. 26, 2008 - 12:08 AM ET #2

    8 people at table, start with 10k in chips, 160 to start about 50 people left. I have 24k in chips, blinds 1k and 2k, sitting 1 space to right of dealer.
     
     
    Reply
    8 people at table, start with 10k in chips, 160 to start about 50 people left. I have 24k in chips, blinds 1k and 2k, sitting 1 space to right of dealer.
     
     
     
    coverditty
    coverditty
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    Posted: May. 26, 2008 - 12:09 AM ET #3

    and I meant hole cards not whole cards,
     
    and flop was 9h not 9d (guy had 9d in hand)
    Reply
    and I meant hole cards not whole cards,
     
    and flop was 9h not 9d (guy had 9d in hand)
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: May. 28, 2008 - 1:43 PM ET #4

    You got exactly what you wanted (although you would have preferred that you were only up against one other player).  You were still a sizeable favorite to triple up.  Not sure why the A-9 called at all (I could MAYBE see it if you two were heads up and he thought you had 7's or something and was continuation betting, but there was another person behind him to act...his call makes no sense to me).
     
    Bottom line is, there were no flush draws and only J-10 provides a straight draw.  I would have absolutely been pleased with my play as I looked at the cards when all the money went in.  You controlled what you could and just got unlucky. 
     
    All that said, there is an argument that you pretty much push if you play when your stack is around 10x the BB.  But that's not a hard and fast rule and has room for interpretation.  Even if you DID decide to fold pre-flop to a huge re-raise, you still would have had about 19K...enough to make your next all in bet one that still has some teeth.  So you were not required to auto-push on your play at all if you ask me. 
     
     
    Reply
    You got exactly what you wanted (although you would have preferred that you were only up against one other player).  You were still a sizeable favorite to triple up.  Not sure why the A-9 called at all (I could MAYBE see it if you two were heads up and he thought you had 7's or something and was continuation betting, but there was another person behind him to act...his call makes no sense to me).
     
    Bottom line is, there were no flush draws and only J-10 provides a straight draw.  I would have absolutely been pleased with my play as I looked at the cards when all the money went in.  You controlled what you could and just got unlucky. 
     
    All that said, there is an argument that you pretty much push if you play when your stack is around 10x the BB.  But that's not a hard and fast rule and has room for interpretation.  Even if you DID decide to fold pre-flop to a huge re-raise, you still would have had about 19K...enough to make your next all in bet one that still has some teeth.  So you were not required to auto-push on your play at all if you ask me. 
     
     
     
    Seldombeter
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    Posted: May. 28, 2008 - 3:00 PM ET #5

    NO you shouldn't have pushed all in; where you went wrong is going all in after the flop because you should have  known you were dominated after small blind bet and big blind called after the flop.  I would have put the small blind on a med pair or two big cards and i would have put big blind on big pair since he called so fast after you raised preflop.  How's yours sports capping been going the last few months?
    Reply
    NO you shouldn't have pushed all in; where you went wrong is going all in after the flop because you should have  known you were dominated after small blind bet and big blind called after the flop.  I would have put the small blind on a med pair or two big cards and i would have put big blind on big pair since he called so fast after you raised preflop.  How's yours sports capping been going the last few months?
     
    Sharkysden
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    Posted: May. 29, 2008 - 11:00 AM ET #6

    with 8x the blinds in your stack and your opening the pot, I'd say this is an auto push pre-flop with AQsuited and up.  Was there any ante's yet? 
     
    The problem is you raised then on the flop your only move is allin, you don't have a stack to play any pots. 
     
    I don't see anything wrong after the flop though, you're only beat  by a set or Q9.   The outcome was just bad luck. 
    Reply
    with 8x the blinds in your stack and your opening the pot, I'd say this is an auto push pre-flop with AQsuited and up.  Was there any ante's yet? 
     
    The problem is you raised then on the flop your only move is allin, you don't have a stack to play any pots. 
     
    I don't see anything wrong after the flop though, you're only beat  by a set or Q9.   The outcome was just bad luck. 
     
    SportsFan8890
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    Posted: May. 29, 2008 - 6:29 PM ET #7

    you just got unlucky. Guy 3 outted you on the river. You got your money in way ahead and theres nothing you can do about it. Sure an all in would have won you the blinds and antes if there were any, but you got what you wanted. Perfect spot to chip up. You did only have 10 times the big blind and thats usually when you gotta push, because when you raised you put in a fourth of your stack and if you missed the flop you would've been real short. Both things I guess were reasonable but in the end you just got really unlucky.
    Reply
    you just got unlucky. Guy 3 outted you on the river. You got your money in way ahead and theres nothing you can do about it. Sure an all in would have won you the blinds and antes if there were any, but you got what you wanted. Perfect spot to chip up. You did only have 10 times the big blind and thats usually when you gotta push, because when you raised you put in a fourth of your stack and if you missed the flop you would've been real short. Both things I guess were reasonable but in the end you just got really unlucky.
     
    CrusCrnshw
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    Posted: May. 30, 2008 - 11:51 AM ET #8

    I wouldnt have pushed either. Just a tough beat
    Reply
    I wouldnt have pushed either. Just a tough beat
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: May. 30, 2008 - 1:57 PM ET #9

    NO you shouldn't have pushed all in; where you went wrong is going all in after the flop because you should have  known you were dominated after small blind bet and big blind called after the flop.
    _______
     
    Seldom, did you even read the post?  coverditty had A-Q and the OTHER guy had Q-10....he rivered a 10 (3 outer) to win the hand.  If you play A-Q and the flop comes Q-rag-rag, are you going to fold? 
     
     
    with 8x the blinds in your stack and your opening the pot, I'd say this is an auto push pre-flop with AQsuited and up.  Was there any ante's yet? 
    ________
     
    8x the BB?  He had 24K....that's 12 times the BB.  He makes it 5.5K to go and that gives him 18.5K in front of him.  IF, he was re-raised all in, he still had marginal fold equity if he wanted.  Granted, he would have been down to 9x the BB, but that's not HORRIBLE. 
     
    You can argue that he could have gone all in pre-flop, but his raise gave him fold equity even if it was marginal.

    And he got exactly what he wanted....top pair with top kicker and a pretty tame board.  Absolutely played right on the money.
     
    Sometimes I wonder if anyone here actually plays cards or reads these posts. 
     
    Reply
    NO you shouldn't have pushed all in; where you went wrong is going all in after the flop because you should have  known you were dominated after small blind bet and big blind called after the flop.
    _______
     
    Seldom, did you even read the post?  coverditty had A-Q and the OTHER guy had Q-10....he rivered a 10 (3 outer) to win the hand.  If you play A-Q and the flop comes Q-rag-rag, are you going to fold? 
     
     
    with 8x the blinds in your stack and your opening the pot, I'd say this is an auto push pre-flop with AQsuited and up.  Was there any ante's yet? 
    ________
     
    8x the BB?  He had 24K....that's 12 times the BB.  He makes it 5.5K to go and that gives him 18.5K in front of him.  IF, he was re-raised all in, he still had marginal fold equity if he wanted.  Granted, he would have been down to 9x the BB, but that's not HORRIBLE. 
     
    You can argue that he could have gone all in pre-flop, but his raise gave him fold equity even if it was marginal.

    And he got exactly what he wanted....top pair with top kicker and a pretty tame board.  Absolutely played right on the money.
     
    Sometimes I wonder if anyone here actually plays cards or reads these posts. 
     
     
    coverditty
    coverditty
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    Posted: May. 31, 2008 - 1:09 AM ET #10

     thanks guys,
     
    I had to just tell myself I played it right and got unlucky...
     
    there were no antes, and if I pushed preflop I would have only won 3k chips.
     
    i had to admit I was a little scared when the flop came out and they both started the action, I'd figure they'd check around to the preflop raiser.
     
    actually small blind didnt scare me at all b/c if he flopped a set, and then through out a bet on a rainbow flop then he's a clown for not making sure there was going to be money in the pot and check raising, the bb slow calling is what had me nervous....
     
    needless to say, I still thought I had it won...the big blind said I got 2 pair, thinking he had Q's and 3's like me, but it was that f'n river 10....
     
     
    Oh well ...good luck at the tables fellas!!!
    Reply
     thanks guys,
     
    I had to just tell myself I played it right and got unlucky...
     
    there were no antes, and if I pushed preflop I would have only won 3k chips.
     
    i had to admit I was a little scared when the flop came out and they both started the action, I'd figure they'd check around to the preflop raiser.
     
    actually small blind didnt scare me at all b/c if he flopped a set, and then through out a bet on a rainbow flop then he's a clown for not making sure there was going to be money in the pot and check raising, the bb slow calling is what had me nervous....
     
    needless to say, I still thought I had it won...the big blind said I got 2 pair, thinking he had Q's and 3's like me, but it was that f'n river 10....
     
     
    Oh well ...good luck at the tables fellas!!!
     
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Jun. 1, 2008 - 11:15 PM ET #11

    Just to reiterate some of the previous responses, you played the hand PERECTLY.  You made a good standard pre-flop raise with a premium, but not great hand of AQ.  After that flop, all-in was the obvious play by you.  It just happened that you got outdrawn, which happens a lot in this great game.  Any time you get your chips all-in as a sizeable favorite, you have done your job as a poker player.  The rest is up to lady luck. 
    Reply
    Just to reiterate some of the previous responses, you played the hand PERECTLY.  You made a good standard pre-flop raise with a premium, but not great hand of AQ.  After that flop, all-in was the obvious play by you.  It just happened that you got outdrawn, which happens a lot in this great game.  Any time you get your chips all-in as a sizeable favorite, you have done your job as a poker player.  The rest is up to lady luck. 
     
     
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Jun. 1, 2008 - 11:18 PM ET #12

    I meant PERFECTLY. 
    Reply
    I meant PERFECTLY. 
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