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    All Forums | Poker

    IVEY and SHULMAN make final 9

    «First Previous 12
    wizardofroz
    NFLNightmares
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    wizardofroz
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Jul. 17, 2009 - 11:42 PM ET #26

    Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:

    wiz,
     
      from the 1970's to 2003 and the poker boom what do you think guys like doyle and chip did?
     
    I agree for every chip or doyle, there are a hundred guys like eli elezra who have outside financial interests. BUT there are a handful of guys who beat the game.
     
    Most guys in the modern poker era  make there money from endorsements AND the fact that they never pay into tourneys themselves. However there is a handful of people who just beat it and do all every year.
     
    I would guess there are 200 guys at commerce alone that make their sole living playing poker..some in 5-10 games and some in 200-400,
     

    With all the poker books out there, the knowledge is available to all, which makes it much different than the olden days of Doyle and Chip dominating the game.  Otherwise, older people would be killing the game with all the information they have absorbed over the years.

    And to the guys that regularly win at the Commerce alone, how long have they been doing so?  A good long run analysis would have to be at least 5 years, but closer to 10.  Also, they pay their rent and daily bills and expenses with their winnings, and also have a large bankroll on the side?  And they are not staked or have a job on the side?  That is pretty incredible if that is the case, but I think you are leaving out important details. 

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:

    wiz,
     
      from the 1970's to 2003 and the poker boom what do you think guys like doyle and chip did?
     
    I agree for every chip or doyle, there are a hundred guys like eli elezra who have outside financial interests. BUT there are a handful of guys who beat the game.
     
    Most guys in the modern poker era  make there money from endorsements AND the fact that they never pay into tourneys themselves. However there is a handful of people who just beat it and do all every year.
     
    I would guess there are 200 guys at commerce alone that make their sole living playing poker..some in 5-10 games and some in 200-400,
     

    With all the poker books out there, the knowledge is available to all, which makes it much different than the olden days of Doyle and Chip dominating the game.  Otherwise, older people would be killing the game with all the information they have absorbed over the years.

    And to the guys that regularly win at the Commerce alone, how long have they been doing so?  A good long run analysis would have to be at least 5 years, but closer to 10.  Also, they pay their rent and daily bills and expenses with their winnings, and also have a large bankroll on the side?  And they are not staked or have a job on the side?  That is pretty incredible if that is the case, but I think you are leaving out important details. 

     

     
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Jul. 17, 2009 - 11:46 PM ET #27

    And I do believe there are a handful of young college kids that are tearing up the game right now.  But I'd like to see how they are doing 6 or 7 years down the road solely on their poker "skills."  Remember, ANY outside sources of income disqualify them from the discussion of poker "pros."
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    And I do believe there are a handful of young college kids that are tearing up the game right now.  But I'd like to see how they are doing 6 or 7 years down the road solely on their poker "skills."  Remember, ANY outside sources of income disqualify them from the discussion of poker "pros."
     
    NFLNightmares
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 12:10 AM ET #28

    I agree about the college kids, I could name 50 you never heard of that some people thought were the "next big thing"
    2 years later who knows where they are.
     
     
     
    Yes there are guys that have been killing cash games for a decade and longer. some have outside financial interests but in many cases the start up money for those interests came from poker winnings.
     
    Many poker pros have major LEAKS  in their business and personal lives. Poker supports all the other messes in their lives
     
     
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    I agree about the college kids, I could name 50 you never heard of that some people thought were the "next big thing"
    2 years later who knows where they are.
     
     
     
    Yes there are guys that have been killing cash games for a decade and longer. some have outside financial interests but in many cases the start up money for those interests came from poker winnings.
     
    Many poker pros have major LEAKS  in their business and personal lives. Poker supports all the other messes in their lives
     
     
     
    VegasMaxx
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 1:17 AM ET #29

    WIZ-  so if somebody does nothing but play poker and live well for five years and then goes broke in the 6th year they were not a professional poker player for five years.????    And Ted Forrest doesn't go broke from poker, crap table his vice. 
    CHIP
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    WIZ-  so if somebody does nothing but play poker and live well for five years and then goes broke in the 6th year they were not a professional poker player for five years.????    And Ted Forrest doesn't go broke from poker, crap table his vice. 
    CHIP
     
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 2:10 AM ET #30

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasMaxx:

    WIZ-  so if somebody does nothing but play poker and live well for five years and then goes broke in the 6th year they were not a professional poker player for five years.????    And Ted Forrest doesn't go broke from poker, crap table his vice. 
    CHIP

    I am awe of anyone that makes a very good living solely playing poker for a 5 year stretch.  I just think it is rare and so damn difficult to stay on top that long with all the books and math geeks out there.

    As brilliant a mathematician Sklansky and Malmuth are, I wonder why they can't make it playing a game they have written so much about.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasMaxx:

    WIZ-  so if somebody does nothing but play poker and live well for five years and then goes broke in the 6th year they were not a professional poker player for five years.????    And Ted Forrest doesn't go broke from poker, crap table his vice. 
    CHIP

    I am awe of anyone that makes a very good living solely playing poker for a 5 year stretch.  I just think it is rare and so damn difficult to stay on top that long with all the books and math geeks out there.

    As brilliant a mathematician Sklansky and Malmuth are, I wonder why they can't make it playing a game they have written so much about.

     

     
    Weathered
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 10:29 AM ET #31

     
     
    WIZ I promise you bro....there are alot of guys out there who make a living play Poker, year in and year out.
     
    99% of them you have never heard of.
     
    You can make alot of money playing the mid-stakes cash games if you know what your doing. TRUST ME.
     
     
    I truly believe that 90% of the best players in the world right now the average person (even someone who follows Poker on TV but does not play anything higher than let's say $2 - $5 No Limit, and could not even tell you the rules for Omaha/8) has no idea who they are. And alot of us like it that way.
     
    There is one dude who made the November 9 who is a winning professional Poker player. But never had a major score in a tournament before now. So he is a "no name" but trust me, I know for a fact he makes a very good living from playing Poker.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Eric Buchman is that player for anyone interested.
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    WIZ I promise you bro....there are alot of guys out there who make a living play Poker, year in and year out.
     
    99% of them you have never heard of.
     
    You can make alot of money playing the mid-stakes cash games if you know what your doing. TRUST ME.
     
     
    I truly believe that 90% of the best players in the world right now the average person (even someone who follows Poker on TV but does not play anything higher than let's say $2 - $5 No Limit, and could not even tell you the rules for Omaha/8) has no idea who they are. And alot of us like it that way.
     
    There is one dude who made the November 9 who is a winning professional Poker player. But never had a major score in a tournament before now. So he is a "no name" but trust me, I know for a fact he makes a very good living from playing Poker.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Eric Buchman is that player for anyone interested.
     
    Weathered
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 10:37 AM ET #32

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

    I am awe of anyone that makes a very good living solely playing poker for a 5 year stretch.  I just think it is rare and so damn difficult to stay on top that long with all the books and math geeks out there.

    As brilliant a mathematician Sklansky and Malmuth are, I wonder why they can't make it playing a game they have written so much about.

     

    Why did Butch Harmon never become the greatest Golfer in the world?

    You never heard of the old saying "those who cant do, Teach"

    Alot of people are just good at explaining things to people and brilliant at breaking things down on paper. But when it comes to actually doing them for whatever reason they dont excell.

    And all those young math wiz kids you are talking about that have taken over the high stakes online games are amazing, I cant do what they do.....but have you ever played with any of them LIVE? I have. They are total donkeys live. And taking their money is very easy. Most of them will admit their advantage comes from playing 12+ tables at a time and just griding the numbers as they move along. Not real poker....just pure math genius that works out very well for them when they can play thousands of hands a day.

    For every Tom Dwan that graduated from online wiz kid to solid live player there are 100 guys who went broke when they ventured into the mid to high stakes live games.

     

     

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

    I am awe of anyone that makes a very good living solely playing poker for a 5 year stretch.  I just think it is rare and so damn difficult to stay on top that long with all the books and math geeks out there.

    As brilliant a mathematician Sklansky and Malmuth are, I wonder why they can't make it playing a game they have written so much about.

     

    Why did Butch Harmon never become the greatest Golfer in the world?

    You never heard of the old saying "those who cant do, Teach"

    Alot of people are just good at explaining things to people and brilliant at breaking things down on paper. But when it comes to actually doing them for whatever reason they dont excell.

    And all those young math wiz kids you are talking about that have taken over the high stakes online games are amazing, I cant do what they do.....but have you ever played with any of them LIVE? I have. They are total donkeys live. And taking their money is very easy. Most of them will admit their advantage comes from playing 12+ tables at a time and just griding the numbers as they move along. Not real poker....just pure math genius that works out very well for them when they can play thousands of hands a day.

    For every Tom Dwan that graduated from online wiz kid to solid live player there are 100 guys who went broke when they ventured into the mid to high stakes live games.

     

     

     

     

     
    NFLNightmares
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 4:31 PM ET #33

    Weathered,
     
     Any smart guy who beats online  and has a hard time live, and there are many for sure, should just play online.  Play is 20x faster, a healthier lifestyle being home, almost never waiting for a great game, etc etc Profit potential is much higher on line
     
    Tourneys of course live is big but cash? If you can beat on line god bless you and dont screw with what works
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    Weathered,
     
     Any smart guy who beats online  and has a hard time live, and there are many for sure, should just play online.  Play is 20x faster, a healthier lifestyle being home, almost never waiting for a great game, etc etc Profit potential is much higher on line
     
    Tourneys of course live is big but cash? If you can beat on line god bless you and dont screw with what works
     
    johnzimbo
    johnzimbo
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 4:48 PM ET #34

    So...was this thread about Ivey and Shulman? Guess not!
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    So...was this thread about Ivey and Shulman? Guess not!
     
    NFLNightmares
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 4:56 PM ET #35

    Quote Originally Posted by johnzimbo:

    So...was this thread about Ivey and Shulman? Guess not!

     

    it was at first...we got 4 months to discuss both of em

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnzimbo:

    So...was this thread about Ivey and Shulman? Guess not!

     

    it was at first...we got 4 months to discuss both of em

     
     
    Weathered
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    Posted: Jul. 18, 2009 - 5:15 PM ET #36

    Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:

    Weathered,
     
     Any smart guy who beats online  and has a hard time live, and there are many for sure, should just play online.  Play is 20x faster, a healthier lifestyle being home, almost never waiting for a great game, etc etc Profit potential is much higher on line
     
    Tourneys of course live is big but cash? If you can beat on line god bless you and dont screw with what works

    They show up for the big tournaments (WPT, ect.) and either their ego or who knows what strays them to play live cash.

    Almost every bigtime online player has tried their hand at live poker at some point. Some of them who are clearly - EV just wont quite for whatever reason.

    And some of hem turn into + EV live players as well.

     

    I will say this.....the online PLO players transfer their game to live play very well. I think it's the guys who only play NLH online are the ons that struggle live.

     

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by NFLNightmares:

    Weathered,
     
     Any smart guy who beats online  and has a hard time live, and there are many for sure, should just play online.  Play is 20x faster, a healthier lifestyle being home, almost never waiting for a great game, etc etc Profit potential is much higher on line
     
    Tourneys of course live is big but cash? If you can beat on line god bless you and dont screw with what works

    They show up for the big tournaments (WPT, ect.) and either their ego or who knows what strays them to play live cash.

    Almost every bigtime online player has tried their hand at live poker at some point. Some of them who are clearly - EV just wont quite for whatever reason.

    And some of hem turn into + EV live players as well.

     

    I will say this.....the online PLO players transfer their game to live play very well. I think it's the guys who only play NLH online are the ons that struggle live.

     

     

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