I explained my background concerning these matters. I know the law because we had to know the law in order to perform the function that we did in the Guardian Angels
=================
You know absolutely nothing about "the law" at all.
And frankly, since you no nothing about the law, you should probably stop trying to comment on it.
But feel free to prove me wrong. Really, quote me a statute from any state in America showing that someone must be committing a crime in order for you to walk up to them and ask them what they are doing.
Really, I can't wait to read all about it.
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I explained my background concerning these matters. I know the law because we had to know the law in order to perform the function that we did in the Guardian Angels
=================
You know absolutely nothing about "the law" at all.
And frankly, since you no nothing about the law, you should probably stop trying to comment on it.
But feel free to prove me wrong. Really, quote me a statute from any state in America showing that someone must be committing a crime in order for you to walk up to them and ask them what they are doing.
Also most experts, not all have said and I agree because I have listened to the tapes that it was Martin screaming for help. If you listen you know who that it is. Most of the witnesses have said it was Martin. Naturally we have people like you saying we don't know or you can't tell.
===============================
As detailed in the discovery document, the FBI says they can not tell who is on the tape. (an FBI audio analysis of that crucial call could not determine whether it was Martin or Zimmerman who was screaming, because of the poor quality of the recording and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming, an FBI report said.)
However, we have an eye witness who was 10 yards away who said:
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help, help.’ I told him to stop, I was calling 911,” John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
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Also most experts, not all have said and I agree because I have listened to the tapes that it was Martin screaming for help. If you listen you know who that it is. Most of the witnesses have said it was Martin. Naturally we have people like you saying we don't know or you can't tell.
===============================
As detailed in the discovery document, the FBI says they can not tell who is on the tape. (an FBI audio analysis of that crucial call could not determine whether it was Martin or Zimmerman who was screaming, because of the poor quality of the recording and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming, an FBI report said.)
However, we have an eye witness who was 10 yards away who said:
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help, help.’ I told him to stop, I was calling 911,” John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
Also most experts, not all have said and I agree because I have listened to the tapes that it was Martin screaming for help. If you listen you know who that it is. Most of the witnesses have said it was Martin. Naturally we have people like you saying we don't know or you can't tell.
===============================
As detailed in the discovery document, the FBI says they can not tell who is on the tape. (an FBI audio analysis of that crucial call could not determine whether it was Martin or Zimmerman who was screaming, because of the poor quality of the recording and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming, an FBI report said.)
However, we have an eye witness who was 10 yards away who said:
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help, help.’ I told him to stop, I was calling 911,” John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
Multiple other witnesses including the 2 women where it all took place outside their window have said emphatically and without a doubt that it was Martin. When asked about the witness you're referring to they said they have no idea what that witness is talking about. The kid was screaming for help. But even without those women if you listen to the tape you know that's a kid yelling for help. Please give me a break. I'm posting the codes next.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Also most experts, not all have said and I agree because I have listened to the tapes that it was Martin screaming for help. If you listen you know who that it is. Most of the witnesses have said it was Martin. Naturally we have people like you saying we don't know or you can't tell.
===============================
As detailed in the discovery document, the FBI says they can not tell who is on the tape. (an FBI audio analysis of that crucial call could not determine whether it was Martin or Zimmerman who was screaming, because of the poor quality of the recording and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming, an FBI report said.)
However, we have an eye witness who was 10 yards away who said:
“The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help, help.’ I told him to stop, I was calling 911,” John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
Multiple other witnesses including the 2 women where it all took place outside their window have said emphatically and without a doubt that it was Martin. When asked about the witness you're referring to they said they have no idea what that witness is talking about. The kid was screaming for help. But even without those women if you listen to the tape you know that's a kid yelling for help. Please give me a break. I'm posting the codes next.
Penal Code Section 837. A private person may arrest another:
For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it. The only possible application of this to a violation of the California Vehicle Code (CVC) is par. 1, which in turn depends on the definition of a "public offense."
This is covered in Sections 15 & 16:
PC 15. A crime or public offense is an act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it, and to which is
annexed, upon conviction, either of the following punishments:
Death;
Imprisonment;
Fine;
Removal from office; or,
Disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit in this State.
PC 16. Crimes and public offenses include:
Felonies;
Misdemeanors; and
Infractions.
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Here it is Einstein under California Law
Penal Code Section 837. A private person may arrest another:
For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it. The only possible application of this to a violation of the California Vehicle Code (CVC) is par. 1, which in turn depends on the definition of a "public offense."
This is covered in Sections 15 & 16:
PC 15. A crime or public offense is an act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it, and to which is
annexed, upon conviction, either of the following punishments:
Death;
Imprisonment;
Fine;
Removal from office; or,
Disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit in this State.
You got your news from some Right wing extremist web site. Martin's Dad didn't tell the Police that. When interviewed Mr. Martin said that he never said that. So for someone screaming about "proof and evidence" you lean on Right Wing wacko websites for your info. Boy aren't you a piece of work. Hitler would have been proud of you. Also the witnesses I saw interviewed on TV were 2 women not one and they both said that it was Martin screaming. 90% of the experts have said it was Martin screaming. If you look hard enough you could find an "expert" that says the tooth fairy is real so don't tell me about a couple of experts that said it was GZ. As far as the FBI they have said they can't tell because they don't have voice matching analysis. But several experts that do have correlated the pitch of those screams to Martin not GZ. Those are the facts that you have conveniently chosen to ignore.
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You got your news from some Right wing extremist web site. Martin's Dad didn't tell the Police that. When interviewed Mr. Martin said that he never said that. So for someone screaming about "proof and evidence" you lean on Right Wing wacko websites for your info. Boy aren't you a piece of work. Hitler would have been proud of you. Also the witnesses I saw interviewed on TV were 2 women not one and they both said that it was Martin screaming. 90% of the experts have said it was Martin screaming. If you look hard enough you could find an "expert" that says the tooth fairy is real so don't tell me about a couple of experts that said it was GZ. As far as the FBI they have said they can't tell because they don't have voice matching analysis. But several experts that do have correlated the pitch of those screams to Martin not GZ. Those are the facts that you have conveniently chosen to ignore.
You got your news from some Right wing extremist web site. Martin's Dad didn't tell the Police that. When interviewed Mr. Martin said that he never said that.
You mean "right wing Web site" like the Washington Post REPORTING ON WHAT THE PROSECUTION SAID right?
Also included in the reports is an account of a meeting between an investigator and Tracy Martin two days after his son was shot. The investigator played the 911 call to Martin and asked him whether the voice calling for help was his son’s.
“Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded no,” the report said.
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You got your news from some Right wing extremist web site. Martin's Dad didn't tell the Police that. When interviewed Mr. Martin said that he never said that.
You mean "right wing Web site" like the Washington Post REPORTING ON WHAT THE PROSECUTION SAID right?
Also included in the reports is an account of a meeting between an investigator and Tracy Martin two days after his son was shot. The investigator played the 911 call to Martin and asked him whether the voice calling for help was his son’s.
“Mr. Martin, clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded no,” the report said.
s far as the FBI they have said they can't tell because they don't have voice matching analysis. But several experts that do have correlated the pitch of those screams to Martin not GZ.
REALLY?
So the FBI doesn't have a matching analysis to compare Martin's voice but these "experts" do?
Again, everything you believe about this case is a lie.
Everything.
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s far as the FBI they have said they can't tell because they don't have voice matching analysis. But several experts that do have correlated the pitch of those screams to Martin not GZ.
REALLY?
So the FBI doesn't have a matching analysis to compare Martin's voice but these "experts" do?
Again, everything you believe about this case is a lie.
So apparently Martin's father never told the police that it wasn't his son on the tape. The police just included that in a police report that the prosecution handed over to the defense for shits & giggles.
Oh and when not on the phone with 9-11 and running after Martin while brandishing a firearm, Zimmerman was trying to make a citizen's arrest.
Or something.
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So apparently Martin's father never told the police that it wasn't his son on the tape. The police just included that in a police report that the prosecution handed over to the defense for shits & giggles.
Oh and when not on the phone with 9-11 and running after Martin while brandishing a firearm, Zimmerman was trying to make a citizen's arrest.
So, in tallying up the false statements smoothhd20 has made we have:
1. Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 50 lbs (False)
2. If you see someone walking down the street in your neighborhood they must be committing a crime in order for you to approach them and ask them what they are doing (false)
3. Martin's dad never said it was not his son yelling for help on the 9-11 tape (false)
I'm noticing a pattern here...
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So, in tallying up the false statements smoothhd20 has made we have:
1. Zimmerman outweighed Martin by 50 lbs (False)
2. If you see someone walking down the street in your neighborhood they must be committing a crime in order for you to approach them and ask them what they are doing (false)
3. Martin's dad never said it was not his son yelling for help on the 9-11 tape (false)
By the way, nothing there says anything about "approaching" anyone.
I explained earlier that I was going by California law but also that most states if not all have the same laws concerning citizens arrest. The penal codes do apply for a non peace officer to approach a citizen as I explained was told to us in the function of the Guardian Angels so as usual as I'm seeing with you, you're wrong. You live in Virginia. We had multiple chapters in Virginia, Norfolk, Newport News, Richmond. I'm sure if you stopped a willing Police Officer and brought him a donut or something he could explain to you the criteria needed for you to stop a private citizen. I'm talking from personal experience you're talking from website that you got your info from. I was responsible for a region of over 400 people that patrolled the streets of LA and surrounding areas. I know the law. You're just some guy spewing out garbage with no knowledge whatsoever about what you're talking about. The only exception is what you're spoon fed by some wacked out Right Wing clown like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the host other Nazi loving Assclowns. Have you ever made a citizens arrest? Have you ever testified in a court of law and put mutants in jail? Have you even stopped a crime while in progress. I have and when the police have arrived and everything was done by the book. Guess what? They appreciate it. What have you done in this area that you so arrogantly write about? Have you ever arrested anyone? I have made dozens of citizens arrest pal so until you can match that don't tell me that I don't know what I'm saying.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Here it is Einstein under California Law
=========
By the way, nothing there says anything about "approaching" anyone.
I explained earlier that I was going by California law but also that most states if not all have the same laws concerning citizens arrest. The penal codes do apply for a non peace officer to approach a citizen as I explained was told to us in the function of the Guardian Angels so as usual as I'm seeing with you, you're wrong. You live in Virginia. We had multiple chapters in Virginia, Norfolk, Newport News, Richmond. I'm sure if you stopped a willing Police Officer and brought him a donut or something he could explain to you the criteria needed for you to stop a private citizen. I'm talking from personal experience you're talking from website that you got your info from. I was responsible for a region of over 400 people that patrolled the streets of LA and surrounding areas. I know the law. You're just some guy spewing out garbage with no knowledge whatsoever about what you're talking about. The only exception is what you're spoon fed by some wacked out Right Wing clown like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the host other Nazi loving Assclowns. Have you ever made a citizens arrest? Have you ever testified in a court of law and put mutants in jail? Have you even stopped a crime while in progress. I have and when the police have arrived and everything was done by the book. Guess what? They appreciate it. What have you done in this area that you so arrogantly write about? Have you ever arrested anyone? I have made dozens of citizens arrest pal so until you can match that don't tell me that I don't know what I'm saying.
You're just some guy spewing out garbage with no knowledge whatsoever about what you're talking about.
You mean except for the fact I went to law school, right?
The only exception is what you're spoon fed by some wacked out Right Wing clown like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the host other Nazi loving Assclowns.
============
Proven wrong on facts, you'll go with name calling.
I'm really shocked by this. Totally.
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You're just some guy spewing out garbage with no knowledge whatsoever about what you're talking about.
You mean except for the fact I went to law school, right?
The only exception is what you're spoon fed by some wacked out Right Wing clown like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the host other Nazi loving Assclowns.
============
Proven wrong on facts, you'll go with name calling.
Scalabrine- Although I agree with 90% of what you have said I don't think this is a slam dunk for GZ to get off. I do believe the prosecution would have been better with manslaughter but I understand why they're trying for the Homerun as it were. The girlfriend will definitely have an important role to play in the outcome but just as important will be the prosecution's ability to show the jury that once GZ left his car the events after were by his actions. Just as I explained in my other posts the criteria for approaching a private citizen as a non Peace Officer. George Zimmerman wasn't even a paid Security Officer which would have given him more legal ground to approach Martin. In the role of neighborhood watchmen there was no reason at all for GZ to approach Martin. IMO that is where they will get there conviction because GZ initiated the illegal contact by approaching Martin when no crime was being committed.
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Scalabrine- Although I agree with 90% of what you have said I don't think this is a slam dunk for GZ to get off. I do believe the prosecution would have been better with manslaughter but I understand why they're trying for the Homerun as it were. The girlfriend will definitely have an important role to play in the outcome but just as important will be the prosecution's ability to show the jury that once GZ left his car the events after were by his actions. Just as I explained in my other posts the criteria for approaching a private citizen as a non Peace Officer. George Zimmerman wasn't even a paid Security Officer which would have given him more legal ground to approach Martin. In the role of neighborhood watchmen there was no reason at all for GZ to approach Martin. IMO that is where they will get there conviction because GZ initiated the illegal contact by approaching Martin when no crime was being committed.
Scalabrine- Although I agree with 90% of what you have said I don't think this is a slam dunk for GZ to get off. I do believe the prosecution would have been better with manslaughter but I understand why they're trying for the Homerun as it were. The girlfriend will definitely have an important role to play in the outcome but just as important will be the prosecution's ability to show the jury that once GZ left his car the events after were by his actions. Just as I explained in my other posts the criteria for approaching a private citizen as a non Peace Officer. George Zimmerman wasn't even a paid Security Officer which would have given him more legal ground to approach Martin. In the role of neighborhood watchmen there was no reason at all for GZ to approach Martin. IMO that is where they will get there conviction because GZ initiated the illegal contact by approaching Martin when no crime was being committed.
===============================
It is not "illegal" to approach someone.
In any state in America.
As a matter of law, whether or not Martin was committing a crime when Zimmerman saw him, talked to him or walked up to him, is wholly irrelevant.
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
Scalabrine- Although I agree with 90% of what you have said I don't think this is a slam dunk for GZ to get off. I do believe the prosecution would have been better with manslaughter but I understand why they're trying for the Homerun as it were. The girlfriend will definitely have an important role to play in the outcome but just as important will be the prosecution's ability to show the jury that once GZ left his car the events after were by his actions. Just as I explained in my other posts the criteria for approaching a private citizen as a non Peace Officer. George Zimmerman wasn't even a paid Security Officer which would have given him more legal ground to approach Martin. In the role of neighborhood watchmen there was no reason at all for GZ to approach Martin. IMO that is where they will get there conviction because GZ initiated the illegal contact by approaching Martin when no crime was being committed.
===============================
It is not "illegal" to approach someone.
In any state in America.
As a matter of law, whether or not Martin was committing a crime when Zimmerman saw him, talked to him or walked up to him, is wholly irrelevant.
14daroad-If you're a lawyer then the great state of Virginia the birthplace of my mother has taken a very serious turn for the worst. You should be disbarred immediately. Your arguments are based on hearsay and fantasy from very questionable sources. Your lack of knowledge of basic law is tenuous at best. I hope you don't tell us what institution gave you a law degree to prevent them from being embarrassed on a public forum. You a lawyer? Only on Covers. Everybody bets thousands on games and when you have a debate they always break out the "I'm a lawyer" card. The internet is a beautiful thing.
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14daroad-If you're a lawyer then the great state of Virginia the birthplace of my mother has taken a very serious turn for the worst. You should be disbarred immediately. Your arguments are based on hearsay and fantasy from very questionable sources. Your lack of knowledge of basic law is tenuous at best. I hope you don't tell us what institution gave you a law degree to prevent them from being embarrassed on a public forum. You a lawyer? Only on Covers. Everybody bets thousands on games and when you have a debate they always break out the "I'm a lawyer" card. The internet is a beautiful thing.
14daroad-If you're a lawyer then the great state of Virginia the birthplace of my mother has taken a very serious turn for the worst. You should be disbarred immediately. Your arguments are based on hearsay and fantasy from very questionable sources. Your lack of knowledge of basic law is tenuous at best. I hope you don't tell us what institution gave you a law degree to prevent them from being embarrassed on a public forum. You a lawyer? Only on Covers. Everybody bets thousands on games and when you have a debate they always break out the "I'm a lawyer" card. The internet is a beautiful thing.
Note: nothing in this post addresses any fact.
You can list no "questionable source" I've provided.
You can list no "hearsay" because I've done no such thing (and you don't even know what that mean).
Of course I'm not the one equating walking up to someone and saying "what are you doing here" with a "citizens arrest"
You, wholly ignorant of common sense, the law, and the facts of this incident, are.
PS: the prosecution released a 180 page discovery document. Nowhere in that document, media account, police report, or anywhere, is the term "citizen arrest" used.
Want to take a guess as to why that is?
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
14daroad-If you're a lawyer then the great state of Virginia the birthplace of my mother has taken a very serious turn for the worst. You should be disbarred immediately. Your arguments are based on hearsay and fantasy from very questionable sources. Your lack of knowledge of basic law is tenuous at best. I hope you don't tell us what institution gave you a law degree to prevent them from being embarrassed on a public forum. You a lawyer? Only on Covers. Everybody bets thousands on games and when you have a debate they always break out the "I'm a lawyer" card. The internet is a beautiful thing.
Note: nothing in this post addresses any fact.
You can list no "questionable source" I've provided.
You can list no "hearsay" because I've done no such thing (and you don't even know what that mean).
Of course I'm not the one equating walking up to someone and saying "what are you doing here" with a "citizens arrest"
You, wholly ignorant of common sense, the law, and the facts of this incident, are.
PS: the prosecution released a 180 page discovery document. Nowhere in that document, media account, police report, or anywhere, is the term "citizen arrest" used.
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