If you're "approaching" someone in the role of a private citizen for the purpose of questioning or apprehending then yes it is illegal if you don't meet the criteria outlined. If I see a Black or Hispanic person walking in a neighborhood they don't "belong" in. Once I impede, detain, or question without meeting that criteria it becomes an illegal point of contact in my role as a private citizen. These laws are there to prevent total anarchy on our streets. If we could just legally stop anyone based on their appearance as private citizens and non Peace Officers then we go back to the days of public lynching of Black men in this country for the crime of talking to White women on a public street. Remember those days? Did you conveniently forget about that. I'm so sorry to tell you this but yes it is illegal for a private citizen to detain in any way another citizen even for questioning unless they have met the criteria explained in other post.
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If you're "approaching" someone in the role of a private citizen for the purpose of questioning or apprehending then yes it is illegal if you don't meet the criteria outlined. If I see a Black or Hispanic person walking in a neighborhood they don't "belong" in. Once I impede, detain, or question without meeting that criteria it becomes an illegal point of contact in my role as a private citizen. These laws are there to prevent total anarchy on our streets. If we could just legally stop anyone based on their appearance as private citizens and non Peace Officers then we go back to the days of public lynching of Black men in this country for the crime of talking to White women on a public street. Remember those days? Did you conveniently forget about that. I'm so sorry to tell you this but yes it is illegal for a private citizen to detain in any way another citizen even for questioning unless they have met the criteria explained in other post.
If you're "approaching" someone in the role of a private citizen for the purpose of questioning or apprehending then yes it is illegal if you don't meet the criteria outlined. If I see a Black or Hispanic person walking in a neighborhood they don't "belong" in. Once I impede, detain, or question without meeting that criteria it becomes an illegal point of contact in my role as a private citizen. These laws are there to prevent total anarchy on our streets. If we could just legally stop anyone based on their appearance as private citizens and non Peace Officers then we go back to the days of public lynching of Black men in this country for the crime of talking to White women on a public street. Remember those days? Did you conveniently forget about that. I'm so sorry to tell you this but yes it is illegal for a private citizen to detain in any way another citizen even for questioning unless they have met the criteria explained in other post.
More useless blather.
Zimmerman was in no way trying to "detain" anyone.
Nobody alleges this.
It is not illegal in any state in America to ask someone walking down the street "what are you doing" or "are you lost" or "can I help you"
Stop with the idiocy already.
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
If you're "approaching" someone in the role of a private citizen for the purpose of questioning or apprehending then yes it is illegal if you don't meet the criteria outlined. If I see a Black or Hispanic person walking in a neighborhood they don't "belong" in. Once I impede, detain, or question without meeting that criteria it becomes an illegal point of contact in my role as a private citizen. These laws are there to prevent total anarchy on our streets. If we could just legally stop anyone based on their appearance as private citizens and non Peace Officers then we go back to the days of public lynching of Black men in this country for the crime of talking to White women on a public street. Remember those days? Did you conveniently forget about that. I'm so sorry to tell you this but yes it is illegal for a private citizen to detain in any way another citizen even for questioning unless they have met the criteria explained in other post.
More useless blather.
Zimmerman was in no way trying to "detain" anyone.
Nobody alleges this.
It is not illegal in any state in America to ask someone walking down the street "what are you doing" or "are you lost" or "can I help you"
Here is the relevant FL statute, even in Zimmerman started the fight:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless: (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
================
The prosecutor clearly over charged.
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Here is the relevant FL statute, even in Zimmerman started the fight:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless: (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
You have selective values my friend. I guarantee you that if the New York Times, Washington Post and other left leaning publications had published something that was in Martin's favor you would dismiss at the "great liberal media bias" You really are a piece of work. I know you have people that write things about you which I usually ignore but in your case I think I understand what they're saying. You are very loose with the facts and choose to spin things to your twisted point of view.
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You have selective values my friend. I guarantee you that if the New York Times, Washington Post and other left leaning publications had published something that was in Martin's favor you would dismiss at the "great liberal media bias" You really are a piece of work. I know you have people that write things about you which I usually ignore but in your case I think I understand what they're saying. You are very loose with the facts and choose to spin things to your twisted point of view.
You have selective values my friend. I guarantee you that if the New York Times, Washington Post and other left leaning publications had published something that was in Martin's favor you would dismiss at the "great liberal media bias" You really are a piece of work. I know you have people that write things about you which I usually ignore but in your case I think I understand what they're saying. You are very loose with the facts and choose to spin things to your twisted point of view.
The number of examples you can provide of me being "loose" with facts remains at zero.
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
You have selective values my friend. I guarantee you that if the New York Times, Washington Post and other left leaning publications had published something that was in Martin's favor you would dismiss at the "great liberal media bias" You really are a piece of work. I know you have people that write things about you which I usually ignore but in your case I think I understand what they're saying. You are very loose with the facts and choose to spin things to your twisted point of view.
The number of examples you can provide of me being "loose" with facts remains at zero.
The funny thing is you actually believe what's in a Police report from racist cops! Oh they never lie on Police reports. I could tell you stories that would make your head spin about the LAPD. Quite a bit has come out but believe me you wouldn't believe the shit I know and I can't put them on a public forum. Let me just say this if you start believing that police reports are the true story then you are in for a very rude awakening.
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The funny thing is you actually believe what's in a Police report from racist cops! Oh they never lie on Police reports. I could tell you stories that would make your head spin about the LAPD. Quite a bit has come out but believe me you wouldn't believe the shit I know and I can't put them on a public forum. Let me just say this if you start believing that police reports are the true story then you are in for a very rude awakening.
Loose with the facts-example Mr. Martin never said that wasn't his son on the 911 tape. He said he couldn't tell from the tape they played him. Subsequently went on national TV and said that was his son. The Lawyers have said that he said it was his son. Mom has said it was her son screaming. Should I go on with how you play with the facts and twist them. Your posts are riddled with lies, more lies and damn lies. You know nothing about law and should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to come off as a lawyer. Seriously? You have taken the whole "you can be anybody on the internet" a little too far. #epic fail
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Loose with the facts-example Mr. Martin never said that wasn't his son on the 911 tape. He said he couldn't tell from the tape they played him. Subsequently went on national TV and said that was his son. The Lawyers have said that he said it was his son. Mom has said it was her son screaming. Should I go on with how you play with the facts and twist them. Your posts are riddled with lies, more lies and damn lies. You know nothing about law and should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to come off as a lawyer. Seriously? You have taken the whole "you can be anybody on the internet" a little too far. #epic fail
If you answer "no" to these questions then I submit to you that you have no idea how the system works nor the laws that apply to these situations.
I have done this many times over the years. I have participated in dozens of arrests both as a Guardian Angel and a private citizen. I have testified in a court of law about 10-12 times. Most of the cases I have been involved in didn't make it to court because of the sound work we did. The perps pleaded out. So again I say to you in the real world you have no idea how this works because you have never been through the process. While I on the other hand I have dealt with these situations more than you ever will your entire life. I'm still waiting for your direct answer to those questions.
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I love how you never answered my question. I will state it again.
1. Have you ever made a citizens arrest?
2. Have you ever detained someone for arrest by the police?
3. Have you ever testified in a court of law in a criminal proceeding that you were involved in bringing to justice?
If you answer "no" to these questions then I submit to you that you have no idea how the system works nor the laws that apply to these situations.
I have done this many times over the years. I have participated in dozens of arrests both as a Guardian Angel and a private citizen. I have testified in a court of law about 10-12 times. Most of the cases I have been involved in didn't make it to court because of the sound work we did. The perps pleaded out. So again I say to you in the real world you have no idea how this works because you have never been through the process. While I on the other hand I have dealt with these situations more than you ever will your entire life. I'm still waiting for your direct answer to those questions.
You know what I think is great? That you believe Zimmerman was 50 pounds heavier than Martin, a skinny teenager who played football, chased Martin down.
Why it is almost as if your theory of the crime is incoherent or something.
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smoothhd20,
You know what I think is great? That you believe Zimmerman was 50 pounds heavier than Martin, a skinny teenager who played football, chased Martin down.
Why it is almost as if your theory of the crime is incoherent or something.
You know what I think is great? That you believe Zimmerman was 50 pounds heavier than Martin, a skinny teenager who played football, chased Martin down.
Why it is almost as if your theory of the crime is incoherent or something.
Boy you really think you're good don't you. YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS! You talk alot but the fact of the matter is you have 0 experience in this area, nada, none, zippo. While I have extensive experience and you can't touch it. While you get your info from questionable sources. I give you real life boots on the ground how it works. Answer the question since you know it all.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
smoothhd20,
You know what I think is great? That you believe Zimmerman was 50 pounds heavier than Martin, a skinny teenager who played football, chased Martin down.
Why it is almost as if your theory of the crime is incoherent or something.
Boy you really think you're good don't you. YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS! You talk alot but the fact of the matter is you have 0 experience in this area, nada, none, zippo. While I have extensive experience and you can't touch it. While you get your info from questionable sources. I give you real life boots on the ground how it works. Answer the question since you know it all.
The only reason my theory is incoherent to you is because you simply don't understand or don't know how the law works. While you're stuck on book theory I'm giving you real world experience on the deal here. As a "cough" Lawyer you should understand that. I guess they didn't cover that in "cough" Law school did they?
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The only reason my theory is incoherent to you is because you simply don't understand or don't know how the law works. While you're stuck on book theory I'm giving you real world experience on the deal here. As a "cough" Lawyer you should understand that. I guess they didn't cover that in "cough" Law school did they?
Boy you really think you're good don't you. YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS! You talk alot but the fact of the matter is you have 0 experience in this area, nada, none, zippo. While I have extensive experience and you can't touch it. While you get your info from questionable sources. I give you real life boots on the ground how it works. Answer the question since you know it all.
Yes, my "questionable sources" are the FL statute, and the discovery document created by the special prosecutor.
And your irrelevant "experience" leads to believe that asking someone "what are you doing here" is a "citizen's arrest"
Hilarious.
Note nobody in the following groups has asserted that Zimmerman was attempting a citizen's arrest:
-The prosecutor
-The police
-The Zimmerman defense attorney
-The Martin family
-The Martin family attorney
Gee, I wonder why that is?
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
Boy you really think you're good don't you. YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS! You talk alot but the fact of the matter is you have 0 experience in this area, nada, none, zippo. While I have extensive experience and you can't touch it. While you get your info from questionable sources. I give you real life boots on the ground how it works. Answer the question since you know it all.
Yes, my "questionable sources" are the FL statute, and the discovery document created by the special prosecutor.
And your irrelevant "experience" leads to believe that asking someone "what are you doing here" is a "citizen's arrest"
Hilarious.
Note nobody in the following groups has asserted that Zimmerman was attempting a citizen's arrest:
The only reason my theory is incoherent to you is because you simply don't understand or don't know how the law works. While you're stuck on book theory I'm giving you real world experience on the deal here. As a "cough" Lawyer you should understand that. I guess they didn't cover that in "cough" Law school did they?
Um, you don't even understand what you're saying.
You can't grasp that asking someone "what are you doing here" is not a "citizen's arrest" nor is it an attempt to "detain" anyone.
Anyone with a brain realizes this.
Further, as to my comment regarding your "theory of the crime" I was pointing out the contradiction in your silly assertion that Zimmerman out weighed Martin by 50 lbs.
You can grasp that point, can't you?
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
The only reason my theory is incoherent to you is because you simply don't understand or don't know how the law works. While you're stuck on book theory I'm giving you real world experience on the deal here. As a "cough" Lawyer you should understand that. I guess they didn't cover that in "cough" Law school did they?
Um, you don't even understand what you're saying.
You can't grasp that asking someone "what are you doing here" is not a "citizen's arrest" nor is it an attempt to "detain" anyone.
Anyone with a brain realizes this.
Further, as to my comment regarding your "theory of the crime" I was pointing out the contradiction in your silly assertion that Zimmerman out weighed Martin by 50 lbs.
The way I see it and this is only my opinion. We all know that opinions are like assholes we all have one.
George Zimmerman is a over the top neighborhood watchmen. Very passionate, wants to do the right thing but he's a hothead. His history shows that to be the case. The neighborhood has had some problems with recent break-ins. Of course whenever this happens it's always the Blacks or the Hispanics that get the blame.
Everybody knows that whites and Asians never commit crimes. Zimmerman sees Martin walking. He calls in suspicious activity to 911. Zimmerman has a strong need to feel important. Despite being told repeatedly that he didn't need to follow or go after Martin Zimmerman does the opposite of what he is told.
This is mistake #1.
By this time Zimmerman's adrenaline is flowing and he must stop this black guy who is scoping out the complex and become a hero just like he did a few weeks prior to receive the accolades of the residents again. He's important, he has a gun. George Zimmerman neighborhood watchmen is somebody. He gets out of the car and approaches Martin.
Trayvon Martin is your average American teenager. He's not a honor student but he's basically a good kid. He's had some troubles, like most teenagers in America he's not perfect. But he's not a thug, not in a gang. He's just an American kid that happens to be at his father's house while being suspended from school. Perfect, no. Troubled no? Maybe he just needs the discipline of his Father so Mom sends him to be with Dad in the hopes of getting their son back on track. Martin wants to go to the store and pick up some skittles and a bottle of Iced tea. As he talks to his girlfriend on the phone he notices someone following him. He tells his girlfriend "some guy is following me" She probably says oh it's probably nothing. At first Trayvon dismisses it as just some guy tripping off him being in the secured complex. But then he notices that as he keeps walking this guy in the truck won't stop following him. Something is wrong. Who is this guy Trayvon thinks. He voices his concern to his girlfriend. The tension in his voice rising.
George Zimmerman has had enough of these Black guys coming into his complex and into his neighborhood committing crimes. This is his place and he's going to show these "punks, person" who is the boss. This kid is acting suspicious Zimmerman thinks. I better go check him out and see what's going on. Zimmerman gets out of the truck and walks towards Martin. Zimmerman is feeling good he's got the gun and he can handle whatever happens. Zimmerman approaches Martin who by this time is in full defense mode. Like most kids of color in America Martin isn't raised with the mentality of your typical white kid from the suburbs. No Black and Brown kids are raised different, they have to be. When you're challenged or in a dangerous spot you "handle your business" Unfortunately unbeknownst to Martin he is dealing with a borderline psychopath and things will get ugly quick.
Zimmerman says something to Martin. Martin says something back to Zimmerman that most likely wasn't respectful. IE "who the fuck are you" or " I don't have to tell you shit" Zimmerman of course isn't going to take this very well he's the guy with the gun and this punk kid needs to be taught a lesson. In Zimmerman's mind he's sees the kid isn't that big so he thinks he can take him. The fight starts and Zimmerman is at first is overmatched. Martin even though he's smaller than Zimmerman at first seems to be getting the best of him but oh no George is a psycho with an extra adrenaline rush that Martin didn't count on. You see George loves this stuff. He lives for it. Fighting is what makes him seem alive. It's wet and somehow Zimmerman is gaining the advantage. Martin realizing this isn't going very well and he's in trouble starts screaming. George is in full psycho mode at this point, blood pumping he feels the rush of anger flooding him. He's not thinking straight. This punk kid had the nerve to challenge me. I will show him who the boss is. I'm George Zimmerman pal and I'm taking you out. Zimmerman pulls out the gun and fires one shot. The screaming stops. George Zimmerman neighborhood watchmen just killed an unarmed teenager who was committing no crime for no reason whatsoever.
This is only my opinion but I have been in enough of these situations after being shot twice and shot at more times than I care to remember to tell you guys that this is as about as close as it gets to what happened based on what we know and from what the majority, not all the witnesses have said. Most of you guys have never experienced extreme violence. I have. I won't bore you with the war stories but believe me no matter how you slice this. George Zimmerman committed murder that night and you can't rationalize it away. Were mistakes made by Martin as well? Yes. In retrospect the kid could have ran to the house but you would have to look far and wide for a young Black American man to run in a situation like that. That's not how Black boys are raised in America. These are the same Black boys that we send to war and asked them to sacrifice their life for this country. I do realize that everyone contributes but Blacks and Hispanics are raised differently than white kids from the suburbs.That's just the way it is.
George Zimmerman had total control of this situation therefore he takes total responsibility for what happened. He had numerous times he could have checked himself and made a different decision but instead he chose to keep rolling the dice. This time George Zimmerman is no hero but just another common killer who deserves to serve his time in jail like all the mutants do.
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The way I see it and this is only my opinion. We all know that opinions are like assholes we all have one.
George Zimmerman is a over the top neighborhood watchmen. Very passionate, wants to do the right thing but he's a hothead. His history shows that to be the case. The neighborhood has had some problems with recent break-ins. Of course whenever this happens it's always the Blacks or the Hispanics that get the blame.
Everybody knows that whites and Asians never commit crimes. Zimmerman sees Martin walking. He calls in suspicious activity to 911. Zimmerman has a strong need to feel important. Despite being told repeatedly that he didn't need to follow or go after Martin Zimmerman does the opposite of what he is told.
This is mistake #1.
By this time Zimmerman's adrenaline is flowing and he must stop this black guy who is scoping out the complex and become a hero just like he did a few weeks prior to receive the accolades of the residents again. He's important, he has a gun. George Zimmerman neighborhood watchmen is somebody. He gets out of the car and approaches Martin.
Trayvon Martin is your average American teenager. He's not a honor student but he's basically a good kid. He's had some troubles, like most teenagers in America he's not perfect. But he's not a thug, not in a gang. He's just an American kid that happens to be at his father's house while being suspended from school. Perfect, no. Troubled no? Maybe he just needs the discipline of his Father so Mom sends him to be with Dad in the hopes of getting their son back on track. Martin wants to go to the store and pick up some skittles and a bottle of Iced tea. As he talks to his girlfriend on the phone he notices someone following him. He tells his girlfriend "some guy is following me" She probably says oh it's probably nothing. At first Trayvon dismisses it as just some guy tripping off him being in the secured complex. But then he notices that as he keeps walking this guy in the truck won't stop following him. Something is wrong. Who is this guy Trayvon thinks. He voices his concern to his girlfriend. The tension in his voice rising.
George Zimmerman has had enough of these Black guys coming into his complex and into his neighborhood committing crimes. This is his place and he's going to show these "punks, person" who is the boss. This kid is acting suspicious Zimmerman thinks. I better go check him out and see what's going on. Zimmerman gets out of the truck and walks towards Martin. Zimmerman is feeling good he's got the gun and he can handle whatever happens. Zimmerman approaches Martin who by this time is in full defense mode. Like most kids of color in America Martin isn't raised with the mentality of your typical white kid from the suburbs. No Black and Brown kids are raised different, they have to be. When you're challenged or in a dangerous spot you "handle your business" Unfortunately unbeknownst to Martin he is dealing with a borderline psychopath and things will get ugly quick.
Zimmerman says something to Martin. Martin says something back to Zimmerman that most likely wasn't respectful. IE "who the fuck are you" or " I don't have to tell you shit" Zimmerman of course isn't going to take this very well he's the guy with the gun and this punk kid needs to be taught a lesson. In Zimmerman's mind he's sees the kid isn't that big so he thinks he can take him. The fight starts and Zimmerman is at first is overmatched. Martin even though he's smaller than Zimmerman at first seems to be getting the best of him but oh no George is a psycho with an extra adrenaline rush that Martin didn't count on. You see George loves this stuff. He lives for it. Fighting is what makes him seem alive. It's wet and somehow Zimmerman is gaining the advantage. Martin realizing this isn't going very well and he's in trouble starts screaming. George is in full psycho mode at this point, blood pumping he feels the rush of anger flooding him. He's not thinking straight. This punk kid had the nerve to challenge me. I will show him who the boss is. I'm George Zimmerman pal and I'm taking you out. Zimmerman pulls out the gun and fires one shot. The screaming stops. George Zimmerman neighborhood watchmen just killed an unarmed teenager who was committing no crime for no reason whatsoever.
This is only my opinion but I have been in enough of these situations after being shot twice and shot at more times than I care to remember to tell you guys that this is as about as close as it gets to what happened based on what we know and from what the majority, not all the witnesses have said. Most of you guys have never experienced extreme violence. I have. I won't bore you with the war stories but believe me no matter how you slice this. George Zimmerman committed murder that night and you can't rationalize it away. Were mistakes made by Martin as well? Yes. In retrospect the kid could have ran to the house but you would have to look far and wide for a young Black American man to run in a situation like that. That's not how Black boys are raised in America. These are the same Black boys that we send to war and asked them to sacrifice their life for this country. I do realize that everyone contributes but Blacks and Hispanics are raised differently than white kids from the suburbs.That's just the way it is.
George Zimmerman had total control of this situation therefore he takes total responsibility for what happened. He had numerous times he could have checked himself and made a different decision but instead he chose to keep rolling the dice. This time George Zimmerman is no hero but just another common killer who deserves to serve his time in jail like all the mutants do.
Yes, my "questionable sources" are the FL statute, and the discovery document created by the special prosecutor.
And your irrelevant "experience" leads to believe that asking someone "what are you doing here" is a "citizen's arrest"
Hilarious.
Note nobody in the following groups has asserted that Zimmerman was attempting a citizen's arrest:
-The prosecutor
-The police
-The Zimmerman defense attorney
-The Martin family
-The Martin family attorney
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Grab a clue I never said he was attempting to arrest Martin but in the role of Neighborhood Watchman you still must follow the protocol i outlined. Yes if you stop someone and asked them a question that can be considered detaining or impeding them because you haven't established a cause for you to stop them. Again you have no idea what you're talking about because you have never dealt with anything like this so you continue to talk from the side of your neck. No matter how you slice it you as a citizen don't have any right to stop anybody for any reason unless you have the reasons I have outlined or they are on your property. That's it. You don't have the right to ask anybody where they're going just because you don't know them. Now if you don't believe me go look it up yourself. The exceptions would be if you're a Peace Officer or a compensated Security Guard on private property. You don't know jack about the law as it applies to this situation.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Yes, my "questionable sources" are the FL statute, and the discovery document created by the special prosecutor.
And your irrelevant "experience" leads to believe that asking someone "what are you doing here" is a "citizen's arrest"
Hilarious.
Note nobody in the following groups has asserted that Zimmerman was attempting a citizen's arrest:
-The prosecutor
-The police
-The Zimmerman defense attorney
-The Martin family
-The Martin family attorney
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Grab a clue I never said he was attempting to arrest Martin but in the role of Neighborhood Watchman you still must follow the protocol i outlined. Yes if you stop someone and asked them a question that can be considered detaining or impeding them because you haven't established a cause for you to stop them. Again you have no idea what you're talking about because you have never dealt with anything like this so you continue to talk from the side of your neck. No matter how you slice it you as a citizen don't have any right to stop anybody for any reason unless you have the reasons I have outlined or they are on your property. That's it. You don't have the right to ask anybody where they're going just because you don't know them. Now if you don't believe me go look it up yourself. The exceptions would be if you're a Peace Officer or a compensated Security Guard on private property. You don't know jack about the law as it applies to this situation.
They way you tell it we would be living in the Wild West days if private citizens could stop anybody for any reason. I tell you what Einstein. Pick up the phone and call the police and asked them under what grounds do you have the right to question, stop, detain or impede another citizen. Be prepared what they will tell you because you obviously are very ignorant on this subject. Ignorant meaning not knowing just to break it down for you. You still haven't answered my question and we know why because you have no real world experience in this area. You're just some guy hiding behind a computer with ZERO knowledge about how this works.
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They way you tell it we would be living in the Wild West days if private citizens could stop anybody for any reason. I tell you what Einstein. Pick up the phone and call the police and asked them under what grounds do you have the right to question, stop, detain or impede another citizen. Be prepared what they will tell you because you obviously are very ignorant on this subject. Ignorant meaning not knowing just to break it down for you. You still haven't answered my question and we know why because you have no real world experience in this area. You're just some guy hiding behind a computer with ZERO knowledge about how this works.
Since I have been involved in these trials before. I'm going to guess that the prosecution hasn't tipped their hand completely about what they have. My reason for this is that by them going for Murder 2 they know that would entail a higher degree of proof beyond a reasonable doubt of what happened. So I surmise that they either have a trump card that they're going to play or they want to play let's shoot for the moon and end up hitting an eagle theory. The other possibility is that of a plea bargain but I'm leaning more towards something up their sleeve. The case will hinge on not who threw the first punch but what did Zimmerman do when got out of the truck. If he said anything to Martin other than "Good evening" or "Can I help you find something" He is in trouble. If he asked Martin any other question that can be interpreted as acting in the role of a private citizen making an illegal stop. Questions like "What are you doing here?" "Why are you on this property?" Any question that can viewed as questioning that person's right to be able to go anywhere unimpeded because they have committed no crime and it will not be good for Zimmerman. Any good lawyer (I'm talking real lawyers not Internet lawyers like 14daroad_will tell you that. It wont be easy and it's not a slam dunk but this case is very winnable for the prosecution and at the very least a manslaughter conviction should be returned.
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Since I have been involved in these trials before. I'm going to guess that the prosecution hasn't tipped their hand completely about what they have. My reason for this is that by them going for Murder 2 they know that would entail a higher degree of proof beyond a reasonable doubt of what happened. So I surmise that they either have a trump card that they're going to play or they want to play let's shoot for the moon and end up hitting an eagle theory. The other possibility is that of a plea bargain but I'm leaning more towards something up their sleeve. The case will hinge on not who threw the first punch but what did Zimmerman do when got out of the truck. If he said anything to Martin other than "Good evening" or "Can I help you find something" He is in trouble. If he asked Martin any other question that can be interpreted as acting in the role of a private citizen making an illegal stop. Questions like "What are you doing here?" "Why are you on this property?" Any question that can viewed as questioning that person's right to be able to go anywhere unimpeded because they have committed no crime and it will not be good for Zimmerman. Any good lawyer (I'm talking real lawyers not Internet lawyers like 14daroad_will tell you that. It wont be easy and it's not a slam dunk but this case is very winnable for the prosecution and at the very least a manslaughter conviction should be returned.
It's really funny to me how Jesse Jackson can take this case and turn it into a "Black" thing. One question, what is the number of blacks that that were killed by blacks, about 94%. I think that needs to be the focus, not about what is going on. This would not even be a big deal if it wasn't for the media using twisted angles to hype everyone up.
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It's really funny to me how Jesse Jackson can take this case and turn it into a "Black" thing. One question, what is the number of blacks that that were killed by blacks, about 94%. I think that needs to be the focus, not about what is going on. This would not even be a big deal if it wasn't for the media using twisted angles to hype everyone up.
It's really funny to me how Jesse Jackson can take this case and turn it into a "Black" thing. One question, what is the number of blacks that that were killed by blacks, about 94%. I think that needs to be the focus, not about what is going on. This would not even be a big deal if it wasn't for the media using twisted angles to hype everyone up.
I agree with you the media has turned this into a race issue. What's wrong is wrong. Zimmerman needs to be punished I don't give a dam what color he is White Hispanic, Black Hispanic or Green Hispanic. He shot an unarmed kid. BTW I lived right across from Lake Merritt back in the day. Many good memories in the Bay. I go back about once a year. I'm in Portland now.
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Quote Originally Posted by EastOakland:
It's really funny to me how Jesse Jackson can take this case and turn it into a "Black" thing. One question, what is the number of blacks that that were killed by blacks, about 94%. I think that needs to be the focus, not about what is going on. This would not even be a big deal if it wasn't for the media using twisted angles to hype everyone up.
I agree with you the media has turned this into a race issue. What's wrong is wrong. Zimmerman needs to be punished I don't give a dam what color he is White Hispanic, Black Hispanic or Green Hispanic. He shot an unarmed kid. BTW I lived right across from Lake Merritt back in the day. Many good memories in the Bay. I go back about once a year. I'm in Portland now.
After reading some of these comments I find it disturbing that common sense has left America for good. I also see Hutch is doing his usual nothing is ever proven BS. The same BS he espouses as an atheist. But I won't go there. Oops I guess I did. At any rate. People want to make this situation very complicated it's not.
I was one of the leaders of the LA Guardian Angels. If you don't know about them. Google Guardian Angels or Curtis Sliwa I'm not going to get into that now. My point is I lived in that world for 7 years. I knew guys like GZ up close and personal. I have been involved in many citizens arrest situations, went to court and got mutants convicted of their crime.
Here is the rule #1 fellas. Property or people have to be in danger in order for you to engage plain and simple no gray area. Unless you witness a crime being committed or come upon a scene of a crime that has been committed there is nothing you can do. This is why the 911 operator told GZ to not follow the kid. THERE WAS NO CRIME BEING COMMITTED. Being Black and walking in your own neighborhood with a bag of skittles and a bottle of ice tea isn't a crime. If you confront, inhibit, or otherwise initiate any type of confrontation you will be held accountable for the end result. Now that was the California law back in the 80's and 90's when there were more people being killed in LA than in Beirut on a daily basis. I'm not an expert on Florida law but I can assure you from what I read Fact #1 Stand your ground law doesn't apply to this situation. Fact #2 GZ had no probable cause to approach Martin for any reason. It doesn't matter what he "thought" was happening. Your "thoughts" don't apply when it comes to the law. The bottom line is, was Martin committing a crime when GZ approached him? The answer is NO. Did Martin commit a crime before GZ approached him. The answer is NO. Using those facts the only conclusion to this case is that GZ is guilty of Manslaughter at the very least or 2nd Degree murder if the prosecution can prove their case that that was his intention by approaching Martin when there was no reason to do so and after being told not to do that.
The ignorant racist can hide behind the "well we don't know" crap but I have outlined the circumstances for a citizen to approach another citizen because I did this for over 7 years many times and was trained on what conditions needed to be met in order to execute a legal arrest or even to question a private citizen. In conclusion since GZ wasn't a hired security officer but a neighborhood watchmen he had no legal authority whatsoever to approach Martin under this circumstance.
Let me also address those who keep talking saying "Martin was the aggressor". You can go to any urban city in America and I guarantee you if you approach some young teenager be they black, white, asian, or hispanic and they fear for their life. They're going to fight like their life is on the line. That's the way our kids in America are raised now so don't act like just because Martin is black suddenly he's supposed to say "yes sir" you can kick my ass and I will just accept it. It doesn't work like that in reality especially with urban kids. Martin had a right to defend himself when an unknown adult male is following him for no reason and accosted him illegally. GZ is guilty under the law and it would be a travesty in this country to say it's ok for adult males to chase kids down in our streets and shoot them because they "thought" he was doing something illegal. I hope this brings some clarity to the conversation pertaining to what the pre-conditions are to approach a private citizen in this country as a non peace officer. GZ didn't meet that standard and is guilty of the result of his actions for not heeding this basic tenet.
If you're interested in an article which provides a detailed scientific viewpoint of the voice analysis of the screams for help, this is the best one I've read.
Don't waste any more time with that idiot. You need only go to the political forums and see his posts there to understand who you are dealing with.
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Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
After reading some of these comments I find it disturbing that common sense has left America for good. I also see Hutch is doing his usual nothing is ever proven BS. The same BS he espouses as an atheist. But I won't go there. Oops I guess I did. At any rate. People want to make this situation very complicated it's not.
I was one of the leaders of the LA Guardian Angels. If you don't know about them. Google Guardian Angels or Curtis Sliwa I'm not going to get into that now. My point is I lived in that world for 7 years. I knew guys like GZ up close and personal. I have been involved in many citizens arrest situations, went to court and got mutants convicted of their crime.
Here is the rule #1 fellas. Property or people have to be in danger in order for you to engage plain and simple no gray area. Unless you witness a crime being committed or come upon a scene of a crime that has been committed there is nothing you can do. This is why the 911 operator told GZ to not follow the kid. THERE WAS NO CRIME BEING COMMITTED. Being Black and walking in your own neighborhood with a bag of skittles and a bottle of ice tea isn't a crime. If you confront, inhibit, or otherwise initiate any type of confrontation you will be held accountable for the end result. Now that was the California law back in the 80's and 90's when there were more people being killed in LA than in Beirut on a daily basis. I'm not an expert on Florida law but I can assure you from what I read Fact #1 Stand your ground law doesn't apply to this situation. Fact #2 GZ had no probable cause to approach Martin for any reason. It doesn't matter what he "thought" was happening. Your "thoughts" don't apply when it comes to the law. The bottom line is, was Martin committing a crime when GZ approached him? The answer is NO. Did Martin commit a crime before GZ approached him. The answer is NO. Using those facts the only conclusion to this case is that GZ is guilty of Manslaughter at the very least or 2nd Degree murder if the prosecution can prove their case that that was his intention by approaching Martin when there was no reason to do so and after being told not to do that.
The ignorant racist can hide behind the "well we don't know" crap but I have outlined the circumstances for a citizen to approach another citizen because I did this for over 7 years many times and was trained on what conditions needed to be met in order to execute a legal arrest or even to question a private citizen. In conclusion since GZ wasn't a hired security officer but a neighborhood watchmen he had no legal authority whatsoever to approach Martin under this circumstance.
Let me also address those who keep talking saying "Martin was the aggressor". You can go to any urban city in America and I guarantee you if you approach some young teenager be they black, white, asian, or hispanic and they fear for their life. They're going to fight like their life is on the line. That's the way our kids in America are raised now so don't act like just because Martin is black suddenly he's supposed to say "yes sir" you can kick my ass and I will just accept it. It doesn't work like that in reality especially with urban kids. Martin had a right to defend himself when an unknown adult male is following him for no reason and accosted him illegally. GZ is guilty under the law and it would be a travesty in this country to say it's ok for adult males to chase kids down in our streets and shoot them because they "thought" he was doing something illegal. I hope this brings some clarity to the conversation pertaining to what the pre-conditions are to approach a private citizen in this country as a non peace officer. GZ didn't meet that standard and is guilty of the result of his actions for not heeding this basic tenet.
If you're interested in an article which provides a detailed scientific viewpoint of the voice analysis of the screams for help, this is the best one I've read.
Don't waste any more time with that idiot. You need only go to the political forums and see his posts there to understand who you are dealing with.
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