Question for Religious Folks

That line of reasoning didn't work out too well for the Irish for a few hundred years. But even they got it sorted eventually.

The problem is this in a nutshell with all religions. Once you start thinking your aspect of religion is the only one that is right and the only one that matters the shit starts hitting the fan. Guess what? The other guy, the Catholic, Muslim etc, etc. feels he is right as well. That's how wars start. Religion and spirituality are far removed from each other. Jesus would be positively appauled with what has transpired in 'His' name over the last 2000 years.

You are right.  He is appalled that man started religion Im sure because he sure didnt bring it.  He only brought the Truth.  You are absolutely right in that everyone thinks theres is right and this is exactly what causes wars and will ultimately be the last war.  There are Christians and then there is everything else.  All of the rest hate Christians but not each other.  Why do you think that is?  Because it is the Truth.  Typical human nature.

I havent bashed Catholics.  I simply stated fact about Catholicism.  They will tell you that they made up a bunch of rules and dont really use the Bible. 

They'll tell you they don't really use the Bible. Hmm...see that's what I mean that's inflammitory. You say you have the Truth and everyone hates people who have the Truth. The big battle is coming, I guess

Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

Wow, there isn't? Slavery isn't immoral???????

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Deuteronomy 20:14 "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"

You better go read your bible again.

Well that is exactly what I am talking about.  Many people are questioning why God would ever say anything allowing slavery.  You are just looking at the catholic and begging for reasons to bash religious people.  Again the first five books of the bible are known as the Talmud in Judaism and many people are questioning whether or not some person tampered with the translation. 

Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:

It doesn't matter if anyone is trying to force me to believe in God or not. But, people who believe in "god" do have an affect on my life.

And why are you getting so mad? Can't you make a point with trying to insult someone? Nice example of someone who believes in God.  I'll go to an intelligent design lecture right after I go to a lecture on fairy tales and mythology.

 Well people who don't believe in God have an affect on my life.  I was forced in my second of university to take a whole course on evolution, they couldn't even have one lecture dedicated to creationism for the rest of us. 

and yeah sorry for the insult I hope you can forgive me in the sight of God in heaven above

Ok you guys really need to get over the catholic church trhy and look at a church group helping out at a homeless shelter or some christians doing a food drive or a mustard seed church. 

i get that but for what purpose is this proposition stated?  if it is stated for the idea that, what do you have to lose, is it worth the risk, it's safer to believe in God?, then it is used in an ignorant manner.  because if the idea is that i believe in God so i'm covered, that all depends on my version of god and my version of religion and whether i am doing what i need to do to get into heaven.  quite likely, a million people could say they believe in their god (it's always their god) and they could all equally be in category number two of the people who are fucked.  in fact, because there are som many versions of god and what needs to be done to be safe, if you believe in god, chances are you are in category two and are not safe.  so, if pascal's wager was used to promote believing in god as a safety valve, it fails miserably. 

if it's just an intellectual exercise, it's simplistic and not very useful.

How can you say evolution is a fact?  It is a theory that has been proven to be full of holes.

So basically, I'm only supposed to look at the people who believe in God or in churches who haven't molested children?  Ignore all the rest?

There are plenty of people doing just as much good in the world who may not believe in God as the people you list above.  Why does it have to be a church group?  What about the Peace Corps?  They don't get credit becase they aren't affiliated with a church?

God can grant everlasting life, but he has no ability to do anything about the people who are sexually abusing the very people they proclaim to protect in His name.  The Pope has spit in God's face based on his actions.  The leader of one of the largest religions in the world.  And I'm sure he rationalizes it in his mind that it's God's plan and that these "offenders" can be saved.  He is using religion to forward his own agenda.  It's so obvious it's sickening.  And how 'bout the followers of the Catholic church?  They actually put up with this. 

I know, I know.  Free will. But what about the child that gets to heaven and asks God, "why did you let me suffer in your name for all those years?"  God says, "well, I can grant you everlasting life, but I can't stop others from abusing you."

God has a plan for everyone, but that could certainly include plenty of suffering because apparently He has no ability to affect anything that happens on earth (unless you listen to some who say the flood that hit NO was because of the homosexuals).  Apparently now God can effect weather, but can't prevent a child from being terrorized by someone who represents Him at the highest level.

I Gods eyes we are all equal sinners.  No one sin is worse than another.  Everyone living has broken every Commandment.

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So the person who steals a bike is equal in the eyes of God to the person who murders someone? 

everyone has broken every commandment

Never murdered anyone myself, but that's just me.

Wendys-

C'mon, you're not that dumb.  I can sit here and say I believe in God because of Pascal's Wager.  Does that mean I believe in God?  No, that means I'm more scared of the alternative.  If God can grant you ever lasting life, He certainly can figure out if you truly believe in him or if you're just doing it to "protect" yourself from the alternative. 

Pascal's wager is moot.  If you believe in God, you believe in Him because you believe in him.  Haven't met a single person who has said, "I believe in God because in the end, it's going to be the best outcome for me no matter what."

How can you say, "you must have faith in God to be saved," and then bring in a logical argument like Pascal's wager? 

Belief in God is an all or nothing thing.....not a fall back position just to protect your ass in case He does exist (which is Pascal's wager in a nutshell).

I just try to learn as much of the bible and the way Jesus wants me to live and the unanswered questions i have, I trust god enough to let him handle it. God Bless

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Why don't you trust your own self enough to handle it?  To make the right choices?  To help your fellow men and women?  To live a decent life?  

Sorry, but I know too many people who claim to be God fearing people who don't have a clue about right and wrong.  And you don't have any unanswered questions.....God has already answered them for you. 

Hutch, I realize that you have no way of knowing this because a lot of Christians who dont study dont even know it, but murder is not just the physical act of taking someones life without justification.  It is also any deep seated hate towards or malice towards another person.