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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 686970 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    jagerfury
    Mikniks
    Rostos
    joediffie57
    SirJohnDrake
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    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:33 AM ET #1676

    Love it, there final argument is "We just fail to realize." Actually, I do understand.

    The more educated a person is, the less likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation. The more uneducated a person is, the more likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation.

    Hence the hostility to science by religious fundamentalist. The more people are exposed to education, the more they turn away from ancient creationist models.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Love it, there final argument is "We just fail to realize." Actually, I do understand.

    The more educated a person is, the less likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation. The more uneducated a person is, the more likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation.

    Hence the hostility to science by religious fundamentalist. The more people are exposed to education, the more they turn away from ancient creationist models.
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:37 AM ET #1677

    And if your beliefs are as "strong" as your belief in your picks...
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    And if your beliefs are as "strong" as your belief in your picks...
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:40 AM ET #1678

    "week after week the referees see only WHAT they want to see..."

    Could say the same for you Rostos...
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    "week after week the referees see only WHAT they want to see..."

    Could say the same for you Rostos...
     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 10:20 AM ET #1679

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Yes.

    With only the certitude one would expect from a good christian on a gambling/soft porn site...
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Yes.

    With only the certitude one would expect from a good christian on a gambling/soft porn site...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 1:16 PM ET #1680

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Love it, there final argument is "We just fail to realize." Actually, I do understand.

    The more educated a person is, the less likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation. The more uneducated a person is, the more likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation.

    Hence the hostility to science by religious fundamentalist. The more people are exposed to education, the more they turn away from ancient creationist models.

    This is actually true...  A friend of mine made a presentation about this in college and even showed me a graph he used that showed a relationship between IQ and belief in god.  As the IQ went up, the belief went down.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Love it, there final argument is "We just fail to realize." Actually, I do understand.

    The more educated a person is, the less likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation. The more uneducated a person is, the more likely they are to believe in a supernatural being responsible for creation.

    Hence the hostility to science by religious fundamentalist. The more people are exposed to education, the more they turn away from ancient creationist models.

    This is actually true...  A friend of mine made a presentation about this in college and even showed me a graph he used that showed a relationship between IQ and belief in god.  As the IQ went up, the belief went down.
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:06 PM ET #1681

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    Regardless of everything that has been discussed to this point, this quote speaks to the main reasoning for my Atheism:

    "Faith, by definition, is believing in something without evidence, and personally I don't do that, because I'm not an idiot."

    I can NOT believe in something that has no evidence supporting it.  That just seems like common sense to me...

    You dont have EMPIRICAL evidence that God isnt the cause of the universe, living cells etc. Therefore,you believe God doesnt exist. Atheism is a belief. I dont know why atheists think they have only believe in in things that can be empirically proven, you dont have empirical evidence God doesnt exist, you believe he doesnt. 

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    Regardless of everything that has been discussed to this point, this quote speaks to the main reasoning for my Atheism:

    "Faith, by definition, is believing in something without evidence, and personally I don't do that, because I'm not an idiot."

    I can NOT believe in something that has no evidence supporting it.  That just seems like common sense to me...

    You dont have EMPIRICAL evidence that God isnt the cause of the universe, living cells etc. Therefore,you believe God doesnt exist. Atheism is a belief. I dont know why atheists think they have only believe in in things that can be empirically proven, you dont have empirical evidence God doesnt exist, you believe he doesnt. 

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:08 PM ET #1682

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

     "Einstein recognized the remarkable design and order of the cosmos, but could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth?"

    WRONG; Einstein looked for order in the universe mathmatically, the morals of human beings I don't think he commented on in his research papers.

    What he found was inconcistencies which he could not solve. The fact that at the very small scale and at the very large scale the fundamental laws of physics as known break apart and don't work anymore troubled him because he wanted to figure out the GUT, grand unified theory. That two different mathematical models had to be used to explain known physics at the time was unsatisfactory to Einstein, though he was unable to solve the problem in his life.

    Einstein had issues because the design and order which he sought for became more, and more elusive, not more clear. Hence some of the biggest questions TODAY in physics are why a particle can be in two places at the same time (defying known laws), how can energy have an effect over distance in zero time (defying known laws), as well as that the big bang is not an individual, unique event, but happens repeatedly, and that this universe is one of endless varieties being created regularly (a result of the math, not wishful thinking). This is not speculation, or navel gazing, this is peer reviewed science. The same work which provided you your hot food this morning will answer more of these questions as human effort continues to yield answers.

    Eisntein was NOT an atheist, he believed in Spinozas God.

    Einstein believed in God, but NOT a personal God. He couldnt get his head around why God would allow evil in the world.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

     "Einstein recognized the remarkable design and order of the cosmos, but could not reconcile those characteristics with the evil and suffering he found in human existence. How could an all-powerful God allow the suffering that exists on earth?"

    WRONG; Einstein looked for order in the universe mathmatically, the morals of human beings I don't think he commented on in his research papers.

    What he found was inconcistencies which he could not solve. The fact that at the very small scale and at the very large scale the fundamental laws of physics as known break apart and don't work anymore troubled him because he wanted to figure out the GUT, grand unified theory. That two different mathematical models had to be used to explain known physics at the time was unsatisfactory to Einstein, though he was unable to solve the problem in his life.

    Einstein had issues because the design and order which he sought for became more, and more elusive, not more clear. Hence some of the biggest questions TODAY in physics are why a particle can be in two places at the same time (defying known laws), how can energy have an effect over distance in zero time (defying known laws), as well as that the big bang is not an individual, unique event, but happens repeatedly, and that this universe is one of endless varieties being created regularly (a result of the math, not wishful thinking). This is not speculation, or navel gazing, this is peer reviewed science. The same work which provided you your hot food this morning will answer more of these questions as human effort continues to yield answers.

    Eisntein was NOT an atheist, he believed in Spinozas God.

    Einstein believed in God, but NOT a personal God. He couldnt get his head around why God would allow evil in the world.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:10 PM ET #1683

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    "week after week the referees see only WHAT they want to see..."

    Could say the same for you Rostos...

    Whats this got to do with anything?

    Oh, and still waiting for a refutation for the cosmological argument...

    And i dont mean grabbing a bunch of words you dont understand and just slabbing it in a paragraph and pretending they apply...

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    "week after week the referees see only WHAT they want to see..."

    Could say the same for you Rostos...

    Whats this got to do with anything?

    Oh, and still waiting for a refutation for the cosmological argument...

    And i dont mean grabbing a bunch of words you dont understand and just slabbing it in a paragraph and pretending they apply...

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:15 PM ET #1684

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    This is actually true...  A friend of mine made a presentation about this in college and even showed me a graph he used that showed a relationship between IQ and belief in god.  As the IQ went up, the belief went down.

    False....

    The more we learn, the more it points to a supernatural creator...

    Scientists recently have shown that the universe has a beginning.....

    How has this scientific discovery led to a less need for a super natural creator?  Quiet the opposite.

    He just keeps on dodging this...I knew he would...

    He has no substance in his arguments, just keeps on dodging the main questions....You know what that means...

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    This is actually true...  A friend of mine made a presentation about this in college and even showed me a graph he used that showed a relationship between IQ and belief in god.  As the IQ went up, the belief went down.

    False....

    The more we learn, the more it points to a supernatural creator...

    Scientists recently have shown that the universe has a beginning.....

    How has this scientific discovery led to a less need for a super natural creator?  Quiet the opposite.

    He just keeps on dodging this...I knew he would...

    He has no substance in his arguments, just keeps on dodging the main questions....You know what that means...

     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:36 PM ET #1685

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    You dont have EMPIRICAL evidence that God isnt the cause of the universe, living cells etc. Therefore,you believe God doesnt exist. Atheism is a belief. I dont know why atheists think they have only believe in in things that can be empirically proven, you dont have empirical evidence God doesnt exist, you believe he doesnt. 


    Atheism is not a belief.  It is the logical conclusion that we come to considering there is no evidence of god.  Let's consider unicorns.  There is no evidence of unicorns ever existing, so we can come to the logical conclusion that they do not exist...  It is Christians who make the leap of faith.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    You dont have EMPIRICAL evidence that God isnt the cause of the universe, living cells etc. Therefore,you believe God doesnt exist. Atheism is a belief. I dont know why atheists think they have only believe in in things that can be empirically proven, you dont have empirical evidence God doesnt exist, you believe he doesnt. 


    Atheism is not a belief.  It is the logical conclusion that we come to considering there is no evidence of god.  Let's consider unicorns.  There is no evidence of unicorns ever existing, so we can come to the logical conclusion that they do not exist...  It is Christians who make the leap of faith.
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:44 PM ET #1686

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Atheism is not a belief.  It is the logical conclusion that we come to considering there is no evidence of god.  Let's consider unicorns.  There is no evidence of unicorns ever existing, so we can come to the logical conclusion that they do not exist...  It is Christians who make the leap of faith.

    It is a belief........What is the cause of the universe?

    Do you have EMPRICIAL evidence that it isnt a supernatural cause?

    Yes or no?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Atheism is not a belief.  It is the logical conclusion that we come to considering there is no evidence of god.  Let's consider unicorns.  There is no evidence of unicorns ever existing, so we can come to the logical conclusion that they do not exist...  It is Christians who make the leap of faith.

    It is a belief........What is the cause of the universe?

    Do you have EMPRICIAL evidence that it isnt a supernatural cause?

    Yes or no?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:49 PM ET #1687

    Cmon, seriously.

    Its like there is a murder case, 3 suspects have been brought in, A, B and C and just for the sake the argument, lets assume that there is no extra evidence for for any of the 3 suspects.

    What the atheist is saying is this.

    I only base my decisions emprical evidence, however, in this case, suspect C did not commit the murder, even though i have no evidence that he didnt do it , he didnt do it.

    You see how contradictory your position is?

    Reply

    Cmon, seriously.

    Its like there is a murder case, 3 suspects have been brought in, A, B and C and just for the sake the argument, lets assume that there is no extra evidence for for any of the 3 suspects.

    What the atheist is saying is this.

    I only base my decisions emprical evidence, however, in this case, suspect C did not commit the murder, even though i have no evidence that he didnt do it , he didnt do it.

    You see how contradictory your position is?

     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 7:50 PM ET #1688

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    It is a belief........What is the cause of the universe?

    Do you have EMPRICIAL evidence that it isnt a supernatural cause?

    Yes or no?


    What don't you understand?  Atheism is not a belief.  It is a logical conclusion based on evidence at hand.  If you tell me a story and say its a true story, until you provide sufficient evidence I won't believe you.  The burden of proof is on you, not me.  Atheist are open minded.  If you can provide sufficient evidence we will change our minds...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    It is a belief........What is the cause of the universe?

    Do you have EMPRICIAL evidence that it isnt a supernatural cause?

    Yes or no?


    What don't you understand?  Atheism is not a belief.  It is a logical conclusion based on evidence at hand.  If you tell me a story and say its a true story, until you provide sufficient evidence I won't believe you.  The burden of proof is on you, not me.  Atheist are open minded.  If you can provide sufficient evidence we will change our minds...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:01 PM ET #1689

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Cmon, seriously.

    Its like there is a murder case, 3 suspects have been brought in, A, B and C and just for the sake the argument, lets assume that there is no extra evidence for for any of the 3 suspects.

    What the atheist is saying is this.

    I only base my decisions emprical evidence, however, in this case, suspect C did not commit the murder, even though i have no evidence that he didnt do it , he didnt do it.

    You see how contradictory your position is?


    This story makes no sense...

    ANYWAY...

    Here is the Atheist view: We have been told a story about a magical man in the sky.  This story has NO evidence supporting it, so we come to the logical conclusion that it is not true.  If you can provide evidence, then we will believe your story.  Atheist admit that they do not know everything, but we know there is no evidence for the story you claim is true, so we will NOT believe that story.  It is also not our job to come up with an alternative explanation for the universe.  Just because we can't explain everything about the universe doesn't mean your story is any more true...  It is what you THINK is true, but there is no evidence supporting it...

    Atheism is not a belief...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Cmon, seriously.

    Its like there is a murder case, 3 suspects have been brought in, A, B and C and just for the sake the argument, lets assume that there is no extra evidence for for any of the 3 suspects.

    What the atheist is saying is this.

    I only base my decisions emprical evidence, however, in this case, suspect C did not commit the murder, even though i have no evidence that he didnt do it , he didnt do it.

    You see how contradictory your position is?


    This story makes no sense...

    ANYWAY...

    Here is the Atheist view: We have been told a story about a magical man in the sky.  This story has NO evidence supporting it, so we come to the logical conclusion that it is not true.  If you can provide evidence, then we will believe your story.  Atheist admit that they do not know everything, but we know there is no evidence for the story you claim is true, so we will NOT believe that story.  It is also not our job to come up with an alternative explanation for the universe.  Just because we can't explain everything about the universe doesn't mean your story is any more true...  It is what you THINK is true, but there is no evidence supporting it...

    Atheism is not a belief...
     
    joediffie57
    joediffie57
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:21 PM ET #1690

    I am sorry that you feel that way, it is a big deal because you have missed the point. Jesus died for our sins, and the big deal is that if you don't ask for forgiveness, you will not have everlasting life. That is your choice and that is my belief. I don't push it on anyone but if you read the Bible you will see that its true.

    I don't judge anyone for what they believe and you are probably a really nice and caring person. I am also but I am not perfect as is anyone and have to ask for forgiveness on a weekly sometiems dailey basis.

    God Bless you

    Reply

    I am sorry that you feel that way, it is a big deal because you have missed the point. Jesus died for our sins, and the big deal is that if you don't ask for forgiveness, you will not have everlasting life. That is your choice and that is my belief. I don't push it on anyone but if you read the Bible you will see that its true.

    I don't judge anyone for what they believe and you are probably a really nice and caring person. I am also but I am not perfect as is anyone and have to ask for forgiveness on a weekly sometiems dailey basis.

    God Bless you

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:30 PM ET #1691

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:


    It is perfectly reasonable assumption to make by those who cannot handle the idea of not existing like they did before they were born.

    I agree with you that before we were born we all were non-existent and that is as far as I go with you in agreement.

    There are some who would disagree with us because they believe in re-incarnation.

    To continue on, naturally of course, I disagree with you that we return to being non-existent again like how were before we were born when we die our physical natural deaths.

    Once you begin to exist in a human body your soul becomes eternal.

    Let me give you a passage in the bible, "The Scriptures tell us, the first man, Adam, became a living person. But the last Adam---that is, Christ---is a life giving Spirit. What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. Adam, the first man, was made from dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man. What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever" (1 Corinthians 15:45-50)

    Therefore, it is clear that we have no pre-existence before we were born and we will have a spiritual existence after we die our natural deaths.

    One verse that is commonly used is Jeremiah 1:5, "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb." But this verse is not talking about pre-existence. It is talking about God’s ordination and appointment of Jeremiah to be a prophet to his nation. Let’s look at the whole verse: "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations."

    One more point worth looking at is how God uses the word "know." For example, the Bible says that God only knows believers, not unbelievers. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27);

    and ".....The Lord knows those who are his," (2 Timothy 2:19); and,

    "Not everyone who calls out to me, "Lord! Lord! will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, "Lord! Lord! We prophesized in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply, I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws." ---Matthew 7:21-23

    Of course, God knows who everyone is, He is omniscient. But God is showing us that when He says He knows us, He is referring to a salvation relationship.

    Therefore, we did not preexist. We are born here in this world and will enter the next.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:


    It is perfectly reasonable assumption to make by those who cannot handle the idea of not existing like they did before they were born.

    I agree with you that before we were born we all were non-existent and that is as far as I go with you in agreement.

    There are some who would disagree with us because they believe in re-incarnation.

    To continue on, naturally of course, I disagree with you that we return to being non-existent again like how were before we were born when we die our physical natural deaths.

    Once you begin to exist in a human body your soul becomes eternal.

    Let me give you a passage in the bible, "The Scriptures tell us, the first man, Adam, became a living person. But the last Adam---that is, Christ---is a life giving Spirit. What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. Adam, the first man, was made from dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man. What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever" (1 Corinthians 15:45-50)

    Therefore, it is clear that we have no pre-existence before we were born and we will have a spiritual existence after we die our natural deaths.

    One verse that is commonly used is Jeremiah 1:5, "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb." But this verse is not talking about pre-existence. It is talking about God’s ordination and appointment of Jeremiah to be a prophet to his nation. Let’s look at the whole verse: "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations."

    One more point worth looking at is how God uses the word "know." For example, the Bible says that God only knows believers, not unbelievers. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27);

    and ".....The Lord knows those who are his," (2 Timothy 2:19); and,

    "Not everyone who calls out to me, "Lord! Lord! will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, "Lord! Lord! We prophesized in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name. But I will reply, I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws." ---Matthew 7:21-23

    Of course, God knows who everyone is, He is omniscient. But God is showing us that when He says He knows us, He is referring to a salvation relationship.

    Therefore, we did not preexist. We are born here in this world and will enter the next.

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:34 PM ET #1692

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    This story makes no sense...


    Atheism is not a belief...

    If it's not a belief...then what is it?...mumble jumble nothing?...lol

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    This story makes no sense...


    Atheism is not a belief...

    If it's not a belief...then what is it?...mumble jumble nothing?...lol

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:37 PM ET #1693

    Correction: To continue on, naturally of course, I disagree with you that we return to being non-existent again like how we were before we were born when we die our physical natural deaths.

    Reply

    Correction: To continue on, naturally of course, I disagree with you that we return to being non-existent again like how we were before we were born when we die our physical natural deaths.

     
    BrunoG0
    BrunoG0
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    Posts: 30
    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:46 PM ET #1694

    Is being stoned just as bad ? They still throw bricks and stones in the middle east I need a drink and a joint.
    Reply
    Is being stoned just as bad ? They still throw bricks and stones in the middle east I need a drink and a joint.
     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:50 PM ET #1695

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    What don't you understand?  Atheism is not a belief.  It is a logical conclusion based on evidence at hand.  If you tell me a story and say its a true story, until you provide sufficient evidence I won't believe you.  The burden of proof is on you, not me.  Atheist are open minded.  If you can provide sufficient evidence we will change our minds...

    Answer the following question - DONT DODGE IT, COMPLETE IT.

    Cosmologists and physicists agree that the UNIVERSE BEGAN to exist.

    Space, matter, time and energy are all that is part of the universe. These componants, space, time, energy and matter all BEGAN to exist.

    Prior to this, there was no space, time, matter and energy.

    There was NOTHING, no universe, nothing.

    Now,

    a) Do you believe the universe created itself out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing? Ie, Magic without a magician?

    b) A spaceless, timeless and immaterial "being" created the universe (ie, outside the universe that transended space, time and matter)

    c) Dont know.

    Just answer it.......

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    What don't you understand?  Atheism is not a belief.  It is a logical conclusion based on evidence at hand.  If you tell me a story and say its a true story, until you provide sufficient evidence I won't believe you.  The burden of proof is on you, not me.  Atheist are open minded.  If you can provide sufficient evidence we will change our minds...

    Answer the following question - DONT DODGE IT, COMPLETE IT.

    Cosmologists and physicists agree that the UNIVERSE BEGAN to exist.

    Space, matter, time and energy are all that is part of the universe. These componants, space, time, energy and matter all BEGAN to exist.

    Prior to this, there was no space, time, matter and energy.

    There was NOTHING, no universe, nothing.

    Now,

    a) Do you believe the universe created itself out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing? Ie, Magic without a magician?

    b) A spaceless, timeless and immaterial "being" created the universe (ie, outside the universe that transended space, time and matter)

    c) Dont know.

    Just answer it.......

     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 8:57 PM ET #1696

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Answer the following question - DONT DODGE IT, COMPLETE IT.

    Cosmologists and physicists agree that the UNIVERSE BEGAN to exist.

    Space, matter, time and energy are all that is part of the universe. These componants, space, time, energy and matter all BEGAN to exist.

    Prior to this, there was no space, time, matter and energy.

    There was NOTHING, no universe, nothing.

    Now,

    a) Do you believe the universe created itself out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing? Ie, Magic without a magician?

    b) A spaceless, timeless and immaterial "being" created the universe (ie, outside the universe that transended space, time and matter)

    c) Dont know.

    Just answer it.......


    I already told you I don't know and most Atheists will say the same thing, but just because we can't provide an answer doesn't make your story true.  Why don't you grasp that?  Until you provide a shred of evidence for your story, we will not believe.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Answer the following question - DONT DODGE IT, COMPLETE IT.

    Cosmologists and physicists agree that the UNIVERSE BEGAN to exist.

    Space, matter, time and energy are all that is part of the universe. These componants, space, time, energy and matter all BEGAN to exist.

    Prior to this, there was no space, time, matter and energy.

    There was NOTHING, no universe, nothing.

    Now,

    a) Do you believe the universe created itself out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing? Ie, Magic without a magician?

    b) A spaceless, timeless and immaterial "being" created the universe (ie, outside the universe that transended space, time and matter)

    c) Dont know.

    Just answer it.......


    I already told you I don't know and most Atheists will say the same thing, but just because we can't provide an answer doesn't make your story true.  Why don't you grasp that?  Until you provide a shred of evidence for your story, we will not believe.
     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:01 PM ET #1697

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    I already told you I don't know and most Atheists will say the same thing, but just because we can't provide an answer doesn't make your story true.  Why don't you grasp that?  Until you provide a shred of evidence for your story, we will not believe.

    This is a contradictory answer.....

    On one hand you are ruling out God, then in the same sentence you say you dont know.......

    Cant you see how bad and flawed your answer is?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    I already told you I don't know and most Atheists will say the same thing, but just because we can't provide an answer doesn't make your story true.  Why don't you grasp that?  Until you provide a shred of evidence for your story, we will not believe.

    This is a contradictory answer.....

    On one hand you are ruling out God, then in the same sentence you say you dont know.......

    Cant you see how bad and flawed your answer is?

     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:18 PM ET #1698

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is a contradictory answer.....

    On one hand you are ruling out God, then in the same sentence you say you dont know.......

    Cant you see how bad and flawed your answer is?


    All I'm saying is I don't know the actual answer, but at this point in time, with the evidence at hand, I am ruling out god.  There is no evidence of your story, so for now it can be ruled out.  Understand yet??  I don't need to provide you an answer to rule out your story.  There is no evidence, so it should be ruled out.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is a contradictory answer.....

    On one hand you are ruling out God, then in the same sentence you say you dont know.......

    Cant you see how bad and flawed your answer is?


    All I'm saying is I don't know the actual answer, but at this point in time, with the evidence at hand, I am ruling out god.  There is no evidence of your story, so for now it can be ruled out.  Understand yet??  I don't need to provide you an answer to rule out your story.  There is no evidence, so it should be ruled out.
     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:19 PM ET #1699

    Just because I have no answer doesn't mean I can't rule out an option with no evidence...
    Reply
    Just because I have no answer doesn't mean I can't rule out an option with no evidence...
     
     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 10, 2011 - 9:37 PM ET #1700

    I'm waiting for an option with evidence supporting it, or for there to be evidence of a god.  All I can say at this point is I don't know...
    Reply
    I'm waiting for an option with evidence supporting it, or for there to be evidence of a god.  All I can say at this point is I don't know...
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