Why are actions detrimental to society as a whole and to men and woman wrong?
According to who?
There are people/societies, who have never been introduced to any of the major religions of the world, who know that these actions are detrimental to the survival of themselves and the people around them.
What gives them their moral compass? It's not religion, since they haven't been introduced to any. I'm thinking it's their inner conscious but that's just a guess.
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Why are actions detrimental to society as a whole and to men and woman wrong?
According to who?
There are people/societies, who have never been introduced to any of the major religions of the world, who know that these actions are detrimental to the survival of themselves and the people around them.
What gives them their moral compass? It's not religion, since they haven't been introduced to any. I'm thinking it's their inner conscious but that's just a guess.
There are people/societies, who have never been introduced to any of the major religions of the world, who know that these actions are detrimental to the survival of themselves and the people around them.
What gives them their moral compass? It's not religion, since they haven't been introduced to any. I'm thinking it's their inner conscious but that's just a guess.
You see, you are BORROWING of theism to attack theism..
The fact is, in the absence of God, there is no such thing as right and wrong moral actions. They are just subjective opinions.
Every time you make a moral claim to right and wrong, you are actually affirming an objective standard of morality, hence Theism.
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
There are people/societies, who have never been introduced to any of the major religions of the world, who know that these actions are detrimental to the survival of themselves and the people around them.
What gives them their moral compass? It's not religion, since they haven't been introduced to any. I'm thinking it's their inner conscious but that's just a guess.
You see, you are BORROWING of theism to attack theism..
The fact is, in the absence of God, there is no such thing as right and wrong moral actions. They are just subjective opinions.
Every time you make a moral claim to right and wrong, you are actually affirming an objective standard of morality, hence Theism.
You see, you are BORROWING of theism to attack theism..
The fact is, in the absence of God, there is no such thing as right and wrong moral actions. They are just subjective opinions.
Every time you make a moral claim to right and wrong, you are actually affirming an objective standard of morality, hence Theism.
Yes there are right and wrong moral actions in the absence of God. People don't need a Deity to listen to their inner conscious and decide what is right and wrong.
The fact that you defend a God that says: murder is wrong. Yet, supposedly murdered most of the people on earth via a great flood, shows how "objective" religions morality can be.
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
You see, you are BORROWING of theism to attack theism..
The fact is, in the absence of God, there is no such thing as right and wrong moral actions. They are just subjective opinions.
Every time you make a moral claim to right and wrong, you are actually affirming an objective standard of morality, hence Theism.
Yes there are right and wrong moral actions in the absence of God. People don't need a Deity to listen to their inner conscious and decide what is right and wrong.
The fact that you defend a God that says: murder is wrong. Yet, supposedly murdered most of the people on earth via a great flood, shows how "objective" religions morality can be.
Yes there are right and wrong moral actions in the absence of God. People don't need a Deity to listen to their inner conscious and decide what is right and wrong.
The fact that you defend a God that says: murder is wrong. Yet, supposedly murdered most of the people on earth via a great flood, shows how "objective" religions morality can be.
Who decides what is right or wrong?
You? Hitler? Al Qada? ISIS?
Tell me? WHO?
In the absence of God, it is nothing more than personal opinions.
Hitlers opinion is just as valid as yours. ISIS' opinion is just as valid as anyone else.
If there is no independent arbitrator, then thats all it is....there is no right or wrong.
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
Yes there are right and wrong moral actions in the absence of God. People don't need a Deity to listen to their inner conscious and decide what is right and wrong.
The fact that you defend a God that says: murder is wrong. Yet, supposedly murdered most of the people on earth via a great flood, shows how "objective" religions morality can be.
Who decides what is right or wrong?
You? Hitler? Al Qada? ISIS?
Tell me? WHO?
In the absence of God, it is nothing more than personal opinions.
Hitlers opinion is just as valid as yours. ISIS' opinion is just as valid as anyone else.
If there is no independent arbitrator, then thats all it is....there is no right or wrong.
Any reason why you didn't address the murder/great flood example?
You dont get it.....the ONLY way you can criticize the morality in the OT is if you actually affirm in an objective standard of morality, but as an atheist, you cannot do that.
If morality isnt objective, then what happened in the OT is not wrong....just a personal opinion....no different to you and i talking about who was a better player.....Kobe or Lebron.....Just personal opinions.
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
Any reason why you didn't address the murder/great flood example?
You dont get it.....the ONLY way you can criticize the morality in the OT is if you actually affirm in an objective standard of morality, but as an atheist, you cannot do that.
If morality isnt objective, then what happened in the OT is not wrong....just a personal opinion....no different to you and i talking about who was a better player.....Kobe or Lebron.....Just personal opinions.
No, i am not...You see, this is the crux of the matter.
By claiming it is wrong..you are importing a standard of morality above and beyond human beings.
IF i say i think its right to harm other human beings, and you say, no its not...then who is right or wrong?
Who determines this?
Society as a whole can determine this.
People interpret religious books in different ways. Some take a literal approach, some take more of a metaphorical approach. Is that not subjective in itself?
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
No, i am not...You see, this is the crux of the matter.
By claiming it is wrong..you are importing a standard of morality above and beyond human beings.
IF i say i think its right to harm other human beings, and you say, no its not...then who is right or wrong?
Who determines this?
Society as a whole can determine this.
People interpret religious books in different ways. Some take a literal approach, some take more of a metaphorical approach. Is that not subjective in itself?
People interpret religious books in different ways. Some take a literal approach, some take more of a metaphorical approach. Is that not subjective in itself?
Which society? ISIS? A Qada? Nazi Germay?
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
Society as a whole can determine this.
People interpret religious books in different ways. Some take a literal approach, some take more of a metaphorical approach. Is that not subjective in itself?
You dont get it.....the ONLY way you can criticize the morality in the OT is if you actually affirm in an objective standard of morality, but as an atheist, you cannot do that.
If morality isnt objective, then what happened in the OT is not wrong....just a personal opinion....no different to you and i talking about who was a better player.....Kobe or Lebron.....Just personal opinions.
You believe, you claim an objective moral standard. Yet you're ok with a God that says "don't murder" then does exactly that. Nice objective moral belief system.
I can't subscribe to that kind of hypocrisy in a belief system.
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
You dont get it.....the ONLY way you can criticize the morality in the OT is if you actually affirm in an objective standard of morality, but as an atheist, you cannot do that.
If morality isnt objective, then what happened in the OT is not wrong....just a personal opinion....no different to you and i talking about who was a better player.....Kobe or Lebron.....Just personal opinions.
You believe, you claim an objective moral standard. Yet you're ok with a God that says "don't murder" then does exactly that. Nice objective moral belief system.
I can't subscribe to that kind of hypocrisy in a belief system.
You believe, you claim an objective moral standard. Yet you're ok with a God that says "don't murder" then does exactly that. Nice objective moral belief system.
I can't subscribe to that kind of hypocrisy in a belief system.
You still dont get it....leave Theism out of this for a second...
If the natural world is ALL there is....then who determines what is right or wrong morally?
You say society as a whole...but which society?
ISIS and Al Qada have different views of right and wrong to you and the society you live in...
You determines who is right or wrong?
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
You believe, you claim an objective moral standard. Yet you're ok with a God that says "don't murder" then does exactly that. Nice objective moral belief system.
I can't subscribe to that kind of hypocrisy in a belief system.
You still dont get it....leave Theism out of this for a second...
If the natural world is ALL there is....then who determines what is right or wrong morally?
You say society as a whole...but which society?
ISIS and Al Qada have different views of right and wrong to you and the society you live in...
You still dont get it....leave Theism out of this for a second...
If the natural world is ALL there is....then who determines what is right or wrong morally?
You say society as a whole...but which society?
ISIS and Al Qada have different views of right and wrong to you and the society you live in...
You determines who is right or wrong?
You can't say leave theism out of it and then use fundamentalist Islamic groups as your basis for your argument. ISIS and Al Qaeda's views are based entirely on religion. Everything we (the Western world) finds wrong with them has to do with their distorted views on religion.
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
You still dont get it....leave Theism out of this for a second...
If the natural world is ALL there is....then who determines what is right or wrong morally?
You say society as a whole...but which society?
ISIS and Al Qada have different views of right and wrong to you and the society you live in...
You determines who is right or wrong?
You can't say leave theism out of it and then use fundamentalist Islamic groups as your basis for your argument. ISIS and Al Qaeda's views are based entirely on religion. Everything we (the Western world) finds wrong with them has to do with their distorted views on religion.
You can't say leave theism out of it and then use fundamentalist Islamic groups as your basis for your argument. ISIS and Al Qaeda's views are based entirely on religion. Everything we (the Western world) finds wrong with them has to do with their distorted views on religion.
You still dont get it...
If this is so hard for you...lets use another example...
Mao who is an ATHEIST, killed over 3 million people....he thinks that it was right to do such a thing....
You think its wrong....
Who is right or wrong?
Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
You can't say leave theism out of it and then use fundamentalist Islamic groups as your basis for your argument. ISIS and Al Qaeda's views are based entirely on religion. Everything we (the Western world) finds wrong with them has to do with their distorted views on religion.
You still dont get it...
If this is so hard for you...lets use another example...
Mao who is an ATHEIST, killed over 3 million people....he thinks that it was right to do such a thing....
Seriously, do we need to know anything more ? They do not agree with our societal values (in Western Culture) and they agree with a different mindset (Sharia Law) .
Case Closed.
Muslims Sux.
Seriously, do we need to know anything more ? They do not agree with our societal values (in Western Culture) and they agree with a different mindset (Sharia Law) .
Seriously, do we need to know anything more ? They do not agree with our societal values (in Western Culture) and they agree with a different mindset (Sharia Law) .
Case Closed.
Ok, but in the absence of God, they are not wrong for doing what they do....it is as you say, just a different preference..
Like some prefer blondes over brunettes.
Quote Originally Posted by Rush51:
Muslims Sux.
Seriously, do we need to know anything more ? They do not agree with our societal values (in Western Culture) and they agree with a different mindset (Sharia Law) .
Case Closed.
Ok, but in the absence of God, they are not wrong for doing what they do....it is as you say, just a different preference..
Because those things are not possible if God exists.....????
I mean God can create a universe, life... but walking on water? Virgin births? Nah, no way....they arent possible....
sorry to break this to you, but in the natural world, those things aren't possible. and until you can prove the supernatural thats all we can go by... and another thing, outside of the bible these things never happened
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
Because those things are not possible if God exists.....????
I mean God can create a universe, life... but walking on water? Virgin births? Nah, no way....they arent possible....
sorry to break this to you, but in the natural world, those things aren't possible. and until you can prove the supernatural thats all we can go by... and another thing, outside of the bible these things never happened
and another thing, outside of the bible these things never happened 
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