Is there camera footage of him definitely attacking the cop? I'm guessing no, since there is still a debate. Did the cop shoot him because Brown robbed the store? I'm still guessing no.
Uuhhhh no on the camera footage but I wouldn't be surprised if a police dash cam that may have been recording.. Dude the officer was hospitilazed with head injuries and a shattered eye socket. He was attacked in his vehicle by a 6 4 295 pound ape that just finished off a robbery and was ignoring a police officer's command to clear the street following his felony act..
Wtf is wrong with you? You keep trying to back away from your initial comments to appease every thoughtful and rational man in the forum.
Stop polluting the thread with your double talking nonsense.
0
Is there camera footage of him definitely attacking the cop? I'm guessing no, since there is still a debate. Did the cop shoot him because Brown robbed the store? I'm still guessing no.
Uuhhhh no on the camera footage but I wouldn't be surprised if a police dash cam that may have been recording.. Dude the officer was hospitilazed with head injuries and a shattered eye socket. He was attacked in his vehicle by a 6 4 295 pound ape that just finished off a robbery and was ignoring a police officer's command to clear the street following his felony act..
Wtf is wrong with you? You keep trying to back away from your initial comments to appease every thoughtful and rational man in the forum.
Stop polluting the thread with your double talking nonsense.
I completely agree this wasn't premeditated. In the heat of the moment though, crazy things can happen. I just want to know the truth before I take a side in this. Although I have a feeling I know which side I will be taking (it isn't Brown's).
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Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
I completely agree this wasn't premeditated. In the heat of the moment though, crazy things can happen. I just want to know the truth before I take a side in this. Although I have a feeling I know which side I will be taking (it isn't Brown's).
Is there camera footage of him definitely attacking the cop? I'm guessing no, since there is still a debate. Did the cop shoot him because Brown robbed the store? I'm still guessing no.
Uuhhhh no on the camera footage but I wouldn't be surprised if a police dash cam that may have been recording.. Dude the officer was hospitilazed with head injuries and a shattered eye socket. He was attacked in his vehicle by a 6 4 295 pound ape that just finished off a robbery and was ignoring a police officer's command to clear the street following his felony act..
Wtf is wrong with you? You keep trying to back away from your initial comments to appease every thoughtful and rational man in the forum.
Stop polluting the thread with your double talking nonsense.
My initial comment and only point in this whole thread was that the robbery had zero to do with the reason of the shooting. I've never deviated from that premise. I'm not sure why you think I'm using "double talking nonsense".
Everyone kept bringing up the robbery footage as proof that Brown attacked the cop. It's not proof that Brown attacked the cop. The injuries sustained by the cop or the trajectory of the bullets or evidence of a struggle or multiple witness accounts or any combination of these would be sufficient evidence for the shooting. However, him robbing the store is not sufficient evidence for the shooting, as many people suggested it was.
I'm really sorry this is beyond your comprehension. If you look back at my comments to other posters we all seem to end up reaching the same, or at least reasonable understanding on this. Although I guess I shouldn't be shocked considering you though I was black at first based solely on my avatar. You could have asked before dropping a racial slur and destroying some of your credibility.
I never once took a side in the matter, despite stating my thoughts that Brown probably did attack the cop, because I wanted to see the evidence before making a definitive statement on the situation. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.
Okey Dokey
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Quote Originally Posted by searchwarrant:
Is there camera footage of him definitely attacking the cop? I'm guessing no, since there is still a debate. Did the cop shoot him because Brown robbed the store? I'm still guessing no.
Uuhhhh no on the camera footage but I wouldn't be surprised if a police dash cam that may have been recording.. Dude the officer was hospitilazed with head injuries and a shattered eye socket. He was attacked in his vehicle by a 6 4 295 pound ape that just finished off a robbery and was ignoring a police officer's command to clear the street following his felony act..
Wtf is wrong with you? You keep trying to back away from your initial comments to appease every thoughtful and rational man in the forum.
Stop polluting the thread with your double talking nonsense.
My initial comment and only point in this whole thread was that the robbery had zero to do with the reason of the shooting. I've never deviated from that premise. I'm not sure why you think I'm using "double talking nonsense".
Everyone kept bringing up the robbery footage as proof that Brown attacked the cop. It's not proof that Brown attacked the cop. The injuries sustained by the cop or the trajectory of the bullets or evidence of a struggle or multiple witness accounts or any combination of these would be sufficient evidence for the shooting. However, him robbing the store is not sufficient evidence for the shooting, as many people suggested it was.
I'm really sorry this is beyond your comprehension. If you look back at my comments to other posters we all seem to end up reaching the same, or at least reasonable understanding on this. Although I guess I shouldn't be shocked considering you though I was black at first based solely on my avatar. You could have asked before dropping a racial slur and destroying some of your credibility.
I never once took a side in the matter, despite stating my thoughts that Brown probably did attack the cop, because I wanted to see the evidence before making a definitive statement on the situation. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.
It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years.....
Historically, by the way, I believe that to be correct-
However- to be taken seriously- IMO-one must live in the present- deal with real time facts- and focusing on injustices of the past and in some way seeking ill gained retribution in the present really does not serve a cause....
Had this played out as it should have, with an appropriate investigation and charges against the officer if warranted, then everyone should be satisfied-
But..... When, before night has fallen, there are talking heads and pundits calling for an arrest of the officer- followed by looting and general chaos.....
The outcome of this becomes much less relevant than the overall effect on race relations as a whole-
IMO, whatever progress had been made has been destroyed and the verdict- either way- from a grand jury or a criminal trial- will create an even deeper division....
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It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years.....
Historically, by the way, I believe that to be correct-
However- to be taken seriously- IMO-one must live in the present- deal with real time facts- and focusing on injustices of the past and in some way seeking ill gained retribution in the present really does not serve a cause....
Had this played out as it should have, with an appropriate investigation and charges against the officer if warranted, then everyone should be satisfied-
But..... When, before night has fallen, there are talking heads and pundits calling for an arrest of the officer- followed by looting and general chaos.....
The outcome of this becomes much less relevant than the overall effect on race relations as a whole-
IMO, whatever progress had been made has been destroyed and the verdict- either way- from a grand jury or a criminal trial- will create an even deeper division....
It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years.....
Historically, by the way, I believe that to be correct-
However- to be taken seriously- IMO-one must live in the present- deal with real time facts- and focusing on injustices of the past and in some way seeking ill gained retribution in the present really does not serve a cause....
Had this played out as it should have, with an appropriate investigation and charges against the officer if warranted, then everyone should be satisfied-
But..... When, before night has fallen, there are talking heads and pundits calling for an arrest of the officer- followed by looting and general chaos.....
The outcome of this becomes much less relevant than the overall effect on race relations as a whole-
IMO, whatever progress had been made has been destroyed and the verdict- either way- from a grand jury or a criminal trial- will create an even deeper division....
Usual good post.
As most people truly understand, the protests are more about general anger and less about the situation.
I think many feel there will not be a full and true investigation considering that the entities conducting the investigation are largely on the same 'side' so to speak.
I do think the 'victim blaming' stuff falls along racial lines however, but that is beside the point. And there are troubling statistics out there such as the number of whites shot by black police compared to the antithesis.
As to the last part of your post, I dunno. A year ago, the Zimmerman verdict was announced and the same things were said, yet we haven't heard much since.
The division is the division. It exists. The hope here, regardless of outcome, is that the actual facts that can be shown without being controverted can be generally accepted by either side of the equation.
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Quote Originally Posted by Dsn150:
It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years.....
Historically, by the way, I believe that to be correct-
However- to be taken seriously- IMO-one must live in the present- deal with real time facts- and focusing on injustices of the past and in some way seeking ill gained retribution in the present really does not serve a cause....
Had this played out as it should have, with an appropriate investigation and charges against the officer if warranted, then everyone should be satisfied-
But..... When, before night has fallen, there are talking heads and pundits calling for an arrest of the officer- followed by looting and general chaos.....
The outcome of this becomes much less relevant than the overall effect on race relations as a whole-
IMO, whatever progress had been made has been destroyed and the verdict- either way- from a grand jury or a criminal trial- will create an even deeper division....
Usual good post.
As most people truly understand, the protests are more about general anger and less about the situation.
I think many feel there will not be a full and true investigation considering that the entities conducting the investigation are largely on the same 'side' so to speak.
I do think the 'victim blaming' stuff falls along racial lines however, but that is beside the point. And there are troubling statistics out there such as the number of whites shot by black police compared to the antithesis.
As to the last part of your post, I dunno. A year ago, the Zimmerman verdict was announced and the same things were said, yet we haven't heard much since.
The division is the division. It exists. The hope here, regardless of outcome, is that the actual facts that can be shown without being controverted can be generally accepted by either side of the equation.
It would be interesting to see statistics regarding white "victims" shot by black officers compared to the opposite- of course you have to account for interactions between each, racial breakdown of law enforcement and suspects-I'm not sure that data is available, but would be interesting- I posted a link about a black officer shooting an unarmed white college student but got no response-
As for the Zimmerman case- I see that Trayvon Martin's parents are involved in this one as well- so that's still fresh in everyone's mind- I don't know if it helps or hurts but it's clear which side they take- again before facts are released-
The immediate media firestorm giving the agitators a forum is what aggravates me- I mean so far that has not been one advocate for the police officer that I have seen- the closest you will get is someone saying we need to wait until the facts in this case are released- however, the opposite is not true- public threats of more violence if there is not an indictment, etc-
So this is already being tried in the media before really any substantiated information has been released-
0
It would be interesting to see statistics regarding white "victims" shot by black officers compared to the opposite- of course you have to account for interactions between each, racial breakdown of law enforcement and suspects-I'm not sure that data is available, but would be interesting- I posted a link about a black officer shooting an unarmed white college student but got no response-
As for the Zimmerman case- I see that Trayvon Martin's parents are involved in this one as well- so that's still fresh in everyone's mind- I don't know if it helps or hurts but it's clear which side they take- again before facts are released-
The immediate media firestorm giving the agitators a forum is what aggravates me- I mean so far that has not been one advocate for the police officer that I have seen- the closest you will get is someone saying we need to wait until the facts in this case are released- however, the opposite is not true- public threats of more violence if there is not an indictment, etc-
So this is already being tried in the media before really any substantiated information has been released-
"It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years....."
I cannot possibly this more! You nailed it.
The sad part is that this is so politically charged, we may just get that result no matter what:
Eric Holder says Department of Justice will "stand with Ferguson" (https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html):
"On Thursday, speaking to reporters in Washington, Holder promised a
thorough investigation and said the Justice Department "will continue to
stand with Ferguson.""
This makes me sad because it tells you that the investigation will be tainted (at least on the federal level) at the outset. Holder is making a clear signal to the protestors that he agrees with their outrage.
0
"It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years....."
I cannot possibly this more! You nailed it.
The sad part is that this is so politically charged, we may just get that result no matter what:
Eric Holder says Department of Justice will "stand with Ferguson" (https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html):
"On Thursday, speaking to reporters in Washington, Holder promised a
thorough investigation and said the Justice Department "will continue to
stand with Ferguson.""
This makes me sad because it tells you that the investigation will be tainted (at least on the federal level) at the outset. Holder is making a clear signal to the protestors that he agrees with their outrage.
i'm not sure i would assume the feds' investigation will be tainted. the feds don't f*ck around. so many federal government departments are incompetent. the US attorney's office is not one of them. not by a long shot. they have around a 95% conviction rate. you don't get that from halfass investigations and poor prosecutions. you get that from very thorough investigations, quality prosecutions and only taking cases that are very strong to begin with.
as some might recall, after zimmerman was found not guilty, the DOJ made some comments and many people assumed the feds would come in and arrest/charge zimmerman. we here at ClubDirtSports and Legal Consulting told you that was extremely unlikely. that case was very difficult. it is not the kind of case the US attorney's office takes and expects to keep their near perfect conviction rate.
i have no idea what happened here, but if the feds do charge this guy, i would assume the evidence against him is strong and he'll have serious problems.
0
i'm not sure i would assume the feds' investigation will be tainted. the feds don't f*ck around. so many federal government departments are incompetent. the US attorney's office is not one of them. not by a long shot. they have around a 95% conviction rate. you don't get that from halfass investigations and poor prosecutions. you get that from very thorough investigations, quality prosecutions and only taking cases that are very strong to begin with.
as some might recall, after zimmerman was found not guilty, the DOJ made some comments and many people assumed the feds would come in and arrest/charge zimmerman. we here at ClubDirtSports and Legal Consulting told you that was extremely unlikely. that case was very difficult. it is not the kind of case the US attorney's office takes and expects to keep their near perfect conviction rate.
i have no idea what happened here, but if the feds do charge this guy, i would assume the evidence against him is strong and he'll have serious problems.
As most people truly understand, the protests are more about general anger and less about the situation.
I think many feel there will not be a full and true investigation considering that the entities conducting the investigation are largely on the same 'side' so to speak.
I do think the 'victim blaming' stuff falls along racial lines however, but that is beside the point. And there are troubling statistics out there such as the number of whites shot by black police compared to the antithesis.
As to the last part of your post, I dunno. A year ago, the Zimmerman verdict was announced and the same things were said, yet we haven't heard much since.
The division is the division. It exists. The hope here, regardless of outcome, is that the actual facts that can be shown without being controverted can be generally accepted by either side of the equation.
Good analysis DJ
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Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
Usual good post.
As most people truly understand, the protests are more about general anger and less about the situation.
I think many feel there will not be a full and true investigation considering that the entities conducting the investigation are largely on the same 'side' so to speak.
I do think the 'victim blaming' stuff falls along racial lines however, but that is beside the point. And there are troubling statistics out there such as the number of whites shot by black police compared to the antithesis.
As to the last part of your post, I dunno. A year ago, the Zimmerman verdict was announced and the same things were said, yet we haven't heard much since.
The division is the division. It exists. The hope here, regardless of outcome, is that the actual facts that can be shown without being controverted can be generally accepted by either side of the equation.
"It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years....."
I cannot possibly this more! You nailed it.
The sad part is that this is so politically charged, we may just get that result no matter what:
Eric Holder says Department of Justice will "stand with Ferguson" (https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html):
"On Thursday, speaking to reporters in Washington, Holder promised a
thorough investigation and said the Justice Department "will continue to
stand with Ferguson.""
This makes me sad because it tells you that the investigation will be tainted (at least on the federal level) at the outset. Holder is making a clear signal to the protestors that he agrees with their outrage.
Yes Holder and the Governor seem to side with Brown. When you say you gonna prosecute it makes the folks think you presume guilt. You have to say you are gonna 'fully investigate' not 'prosecute'. But it is so tricky if you do because the folks think it is euphemistic and cover-upish. They feel they have heard this before and nothing gets done.
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Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:
"It strikes me as hypocritical that what the protesters are calling for - essentially a finding of guilt with no due process- (And make no mistake about it- that's the only outcome that will satisfy....) is basically what blacks have charged a predominantly white driven criminal justice system of for years....."
I cannot possibly this more! You nailed it.
The sad part is that this is so politically charged, we may just get that result no matter what:
Eric Holder says Department of Justice will "stand with Ferguson" (https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/21/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html):
"On Thursday, speaking to reporters in Washington, Holder promised a
thorough investigation and said the Justice Department "will continue to
stand with Ferguson.""
This makes me sad because it tells you that the investigation will be tainted (at least on the federal level) at the outset. Holder is making a clear signal to the protestors that he agrees with their outrage.
Yes Holder and the Governor seem to side with Brown. When you say you gonna prosecute it makes the folks think you presume guilt. You have to say you are gonna 'fully investigate' not 'prosecute'. But it is so tricky if you do because the folks think it is euphemistic and cover-upish. They feel they have heard this before and nothing gets done.
did holder say his office is going to prosecute? that seems very unlikely to me. there's nothing wrong with saying it, that is what they are paid to do after all, but i'd be very surprised if he said that before an arrest and decision to prosecute has been made.
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did holder say his office is going to prosecute? that seems very unlikely to me. there's nothing wrong with saying it, that is what they are paid to do after all, but i'd be very surprised if he said that before an arrest and decision to prosecute has been made.
Holder told a group of local college students in Furguson,, that he understood the protesters ..and that he had also been a victim of racial profiling...........and that he wasn't only the attorney general of the United States,but a black man.
Eric Holder’s visit unprecedented ..as he meet with Brown’s family,but not the Wilson family ...
There are rally's outside of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney (who is white ) Robert McCulloch’s office and petitions for him to step down because he may have a racial bias due to experiences in the past ..and Democrat polticians in Missouri are calling for his removal.
If this is the criteria for removal than it looks like Eric Holder should do the same ..and step aside.
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Holder told a group of local college students in Furguson,, that he understood the protesters ..and that he had also been a victim of racial profiling...........and that he wasn't only the attorney general of the United States,but a black man.
Eric Holder’s visit unprecedented ..as he meet with Brown’s family,but not the Wilson family ...
There are rally's outside of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney (who is white ) Robert McCulloch’s office and petitions for him to step down because he may have a racial bias due to experiences in the past ..and Democrat polticians in Missouri are calling for his removal.
If this is the criteria for removal than it looks like Eric Holder should do the same ..and step aside.
did holder say his office is going to prosecute? that seems very unlikely to me. there's nothing wrong with saying it, that is what they are paid to do after all, but i'd be very surprised if he said that before an arrest and decision to prosecute has been made.
No. The governor said that. Holder indicated it was a racial injustice, etc. Just meant they should both be encouraging peace and that an investigation will be pursued.
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
did holder say his office is going to prosecute? that seems very unlikely to me. there's nothing wrong with saying it, that is what they are paid to do after all, but i'd be very surprised if he said that before an arrest and decision to prosecute has been made.
No. The governor said that. Holder indicated it was a racial injustice, etc. Just meant they should both be encouraging peace and that an investigation will be pursued.
if the governor said that, he's an idiot for two reasons. one, it's not his job to prosecute anyone. two, you can't call for a prosecution without an investigation unless it's obvious a prosecution is appropriate.
what holder said sounds fine.
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if the governor said that, he's an idiot for two reasons. one, it's not his job to prosecute anyone. two, you can't call for a prosecution without an investigation unless it's obvious a prosecution is appropriate.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
0
if you want to criticize holder, there is plenty of ammunition to do that.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
Aint dat da truth
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
if you want to criticize holder, there is plenty of ammunition to do that.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
Absolutely. As you alluded, the government was just as responsible for the housing burst as the banks were.
you know the corporate and government fukks have this country dumbed all the way down when people are more outraged by looting of some stores in a city they'd never heard of before a few days ago than the looting of billions of dollars from the general public through mortgage and securities fraud.
Absolutely. As you alluded, the government was just as responsible for the housing burst as the banks were.
Send national guard and media away and things seem to settle down quickly - 2 weeks seems like a long time to wait for the funeral - lets just hope various groups / networks do not effort to make it even more of a spectacle
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Send national guard and media away and things seem to settle down quickly - 2 weeks seems like a long time to wait for the funeral - lets just hope various groups / networks do not effort to make it even more of a spectacle
Send national guard and media away and things seem to settle down quickly - 2 weeks seems like a long time to wait for the funeral - lets just hope various groups / networks do not effort to make it even more of a spectacle
With the funeral being public and with Al Sharpton delivering the eulogy ..what could go wrong ?
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Quote Originally Posted by nc1capper:
Send national guard and media away and things seem to settle down quickly - 2 weeks seems like a long time to wait for the funeral - lets just hope various groups / networks do not effort to make it even more of a spectacle
With the funeral being public and with Al Sharpton delivering the eulogy ..what could go wrong ?
You keep trying to back away from your initial comments to appease every thoughtful and rational man in the forum. 
this more! You nailed it.
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