I don’t know .. but I don’t think it would impact BTC since it’s a solana coin BUT as stated earlier , I can’t find much on it so not sure
That’s a freaky chart huh ? I wish I would have saw that. I’m pissed as I follow things closely and I follow pump fun. I would have definitely made a large investment on the movement and holders .. I just can’t put anything into a 1.8 B MC at this point. Doesn’t make since. I may regret it. We will see.
@wallstreetcappers
I don’t know .. but I don’t think it would impact BTC since it’s a solana coin BUT as stated earlier , I can’t find much on it so not sure
That’s a freaky chart huh ? I wish I would have saw that. I’m pissed as I follow things closely and I follow pump fun. I would have definitely made a large investment on the movement and holders .. I just can’t put anything into a 1.8 B MC at this point. Doesn’t make since. I may regret it. We will see.
I guess I was wrong about not trusting Pnut but I always use caution .. I would rather gain a little than lose a lot any day. I’m happy for the people who got in that. They are RiCH.. hell that few hundo I put in is doing great can’t imagine what serious money would do. It got a CDC listing (crypto com). It will send it pretty soon I’m sure.. happy for them
@wallstreetcappers
I guess I was wrong about not trusting Pnut but I always use caution .. I would rather gain a little than lose a lot any day. I’m happy for the people who got in that. They are RiCH.. hell that few hundo I put in is doing great can’t imagine what serious money would do. It got a CDC listing (crypto com). It will send it pretty soon I’m sure.. happy for them
@ superbeets I love Robinhood too. I think it’s funny how it still has a bad reputation with so many people. That fiasco happened a while ago already and I still find that whole thing ( stopping buy orders on one side but let the other side sell) downright hilarious. Imagine treating your customers that way ! lol I’ve only been using Robinhood for a year and a half and I’ve never had a problem and don’t expect to see any in the future. It’s nice and user friendly and I can easily log in and see my portfolio’s worth in real time. I’ll stick to it. I’m glad they started to allow trading in other cryptocurrencies like PEPE and Solana. I had to open accounts in Kraken and Coinbase because they didn’t deal Solana.
We think alike .. yeah if I was CEO of RH I would have done same thing .. Kitty was something they had never seen before ..u have to protect your other customers by not going under.. nobody didn’t get paid they just couldn’t keep running it up , basically …lol
RH is awesome
Quote Originally Posted by ZiggyDawg:
@ superbeets I love Robinhood too. I think it’s funny how it still has a bad reputation with so many people. That fiasco happened a while ago already and I still find that whole thing ( stopping buy orders on one side but let the other side sell) downright hilarious. Imagine treating your customers that way ! lol I’ve only been using Robinhood for a year and a half and I’ve never had a problem and don’t expect to see any in the future. It’s nice and user friendly and I can easily log in and see my portfolio’s worth in real time. I’ll stick to it. I’m glad they started to allow trading in other cryptocurrencies like PEPE and Solana. I had to open accounts in Kraken and Coinbase because they didn’t deal Solana.
We think alike .. yeah if I was CEO of RH I would have done same thing .. Kitty was something they had never seen before ..u have to protect your other customers by not going under.. nobody didn’t get paid they just couldn’t keep running it up , basically …lol
Reason? They bought 51k more btc over the weekend.
Its just a revolving door.... 1. Issue convertible bonds (at 0% interest), collect tons of cash 2. Dilute stock to also raise cash 3. Buy BTC 4. Stockholder BTC value goes up 5. Repeat
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
MSTR up 13% on a BTC flat day.
Reason? They bought 51k more btc over the weekend.
Its just a revolving door.... 1. Issue convertible bonds (at 0% interest), collect tons of cash 2. Dilute stock to also raise cash 3. Buy BTC 4. Stockholder BTC value goes up 5. Repeat
To me it is reckless and has huge potential risk but if it pans out the stock will do very well. Its a moon or implosion scenario, the underlying business is not worth say 30 a share maybe more like 20 and the rest is a levered risk BTC play and not an extremely efficient one either.
A more pure play is either own BTC or buy a very low expense fee ETF like IBIT or there are levered BTC options too but those likely have contagion risk and higher fees.
@vanzack
To me it is reckless and has huge potential risk but if it pans out the stock will do very well. Its a moon or implosion scenario, the underlying business is not worth say 30 a share maybe more like 20 and the rest is a levered risk BTC play and not an extremely efficient one either.
A more pure play is either own BTC or buy a very low expense fee ETF like IBIT or there are levered BTC options too but those likely have contagion risk and higher fees.
@vanzack To me it is reckless and has huge potential risk but if it pans out the stock will do very well. Its a moon or implosion scenario, the underlying business is not worth say 30 a share maybe more like 20 and the rest is a levered risk BTC play and not an extremely efficient one either. A more pure play is either own BTC or buy a very low expense fee ETF like IBIT or there are levered BTC options too but those likely have contagion risk and higher fees.
All debt (bonds) are 100% unsecured.
That is the kicker.
They have a line of people waiting to give them money at 0%, that is unsecured.
That has to be the first time in human history.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
@vanzack To me it is reckless and has huge potential risk but if it pans out the stock will do very well. Its a moon or implosion scenario, the underlying business is not worth say 30 a share maybe more like 20 and the rest is a levered risk BTC play and not an extremely efficient one either. A more pure play is either own BTC or buy a very low expense fee ETF like IBIT or there are levered BTC options too but those likely have contagion risk and higher fees.
All debt (bonds) are 100% unsecured.
That is the kicker.
They have a line of people waiting to give them money at 0%, that is unsecured.
Yup I dont see it myself, its fun to root for investors who might make a big return but I do not see the value in the debt holders return. I think the only reason why people are willing to take zero interest is that the debt is convertible so based on the conversion price there could be large upside. Mikey is not shy about wrecking shareholder equity so he does not care about diluting the common into the stratosphere and that is what could easily happen and especially if some limit clauses kick in.
What I mean by that is the debt has covenants and I have not read them in this case but all unsecured debt has restrictions and limits so if say BTC goes below a certain threshold then the debt holders can convert into common shares and depending on what those levels are and what the conversion ratios are it could get dicey very easily.
Some unsecured debt even has kickers that make it callable if the majority of the holders agree. Ive owned a few stocks where unsecured debt is what crushed the company into pieces and the holders took over the company, and now that Mikey keeps diluting he is no longer the majority holder and that risk could mean he cannot decide the financial path of the company.
I keep thinking that there is a tipping point on all this debt and at some point there will be but given that BTC keeps going up he can keep averaging up (which is bonkers to increase the average purchase price of BTC) and the game can continue.
@vanzack
Yup I dont see it myself, its fun to root for investors who might make a big return but I do not see the value in the debt holders return. I think the only reason why people are willing to take zero interest is that the debt is convertible so based on the conversion price there could be large upside. Mikey is not shy about wrecking shareholder equity so he does not care about diluting the common into the stratosphere and that is what could easily happen and especially if some limit clauses kick in.
What I mean by that is the debt has covenants and I have not read them in this case but all unsecured debt has restrictions and limits so if say BTC goes below a certain threshold then the debt holders can convert into common shares and depending on what those levels are and what the conversion ratios are it could get dicey very easily.
Some unsecured debt even has kickers that make it callable if the majority of the holders agree. Ive owned a few stocks where unsecured debt is what crushed the company into pieces and the holders took over the company, and now that Mikey keeps diluting he is no longer the majority holder and that risk could mean he cannot decide the financial path of the company.
I keep thinking that there is a tipping point on all this debt and at some point there will be but given that BTC keeps going up he can keep averaging up (which is bonkers to increase the average purchase price of BTC) and the game can continue.
As long as he doesnt keep bumping his average buy price too close to spot price. Yeah as long as BTC goes up MSTR should move higher too.
Another stock I follow MARA has been doing the MSTR debt/buy scheme and they did a 1B debt deal yesterday and I read over the details of the unsecured terms and it is as I mentioned above the kicker is the conversion price. So in this case MARA is at like 19 per share now and the conversion price is 26 so someone who owns the debt has a call option on MARA at 26 and anything higher than 26 they are in the money. The debt is due in 2030 so you get your principal back at least by then and you own a call option at 26 and will profit off that.
Just for comparison I looked up on their options chain and the cost to buy a 27 strike call option for 2027 is 9 bucks or 900 per 100 shares. So someone could use options and sell naked calls to generate income knowing they have a call option in theory on the debt. If BTC keeps going up the debt holders here will do very well.
@vanzack
As long as he doesnt keep bumping his average buy price too close to spot price. Yeah as long as BTC goes up MSTR should move higher too.
Another stock I follow MARA has been doing the MSTR debt/buy scheme and they did a 1B debt deal yesterday and I read over the details of the unsecured terms and it is as I mentioned above the kicker is the conversion price. So in this case MARA is at like 19 per share now and the conversion price is 26 so someone who owns the debt has a call option on MARA at 26 and anything higher than 26 they are in the money. The debt is due in 2030 so you get your principal back at least by then and you own a call option at 26 and will profit off that.
Just for comparison I looked up on their options chain and the cost to buy a 27 strike call option for 2027 is 9 bucks or 900 per 100 shares. So someone could use options and sell naked calls to generate income knowing they have a call option in theory on the debt. If BTC keeps going up the debt holders here will do very well.
@vanzack As long as he doesnt keep bumping his average buy price too close to spot price. Yeah as long as BTC goes up MSTR should move higher too. Another stock I follow MARA has been doing the MSTR debt/buy scheme and they did a 1B debt deal yesterday and I read over the details of the unsecured terms and it is as I mentioned above the kicker is the conversion price. So in this case MARA is at like 19 per share now and the conversion price is 26 so someone who owns the debt has a call option on MARA at 26 and anything higher than 26 they are in the money. The debt is due in 2030 so you get your principal back at least by then and you own a call option at 26 and will profit off that. Just for comparison I looked up on their options chain and the cost to buy a 27 strike call option for 2027 is 9 bucks or 900 per 100 shares. So someone could use options and sell naked calls to generate income knowing they have a call option in theory on the debt. If BTC keeps going up the debt holders here will do very well.
I saw MARA doing the same thing.
The advantage MSTR has is they are earliest to the party. They already own 1.5% of the worlds BTC. Not sure how anyone can catch them, but being 2nd to the party is way better than being 200,000th.
Because if you believe in the concept - then every company will buy BTC at some point. Not as their primary business - but as a way to store their wealth that is inflationary proof.
I think this is what people misunderstand about BTC. It is not going to replace the dollar (or fiat in general), it will coexist. Fiat is for smaller transactions, BTC is a store of wealth. Example: If a company has 100m in dollars, they can choose to keep it and be exposed to 7% US govt printing per year + inflation, which devalues their 100m in a year to 90m. But if you put it in BTC, then take it back out in a year, you have 110M in USD - because BTC will not deflate.
This example of course is stripped of any premium on hype, reddit, bitcoin bros, or anything else. This is static price BTC.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
@vanzack As long as he doesnt keep bumping his average buy price too close to spot price. Yeah as long as BTC goes up MSTR should move higher too. Another stock I follow MARA has been doing the MSTR debt/buy scheme and they did a 1B debt deal yesterday and I read over the details of the unsecured terms and it is as I mentioned above the kicker is the conversion price. So in this case MARA is at like 19 per share now and the conversion price is 26 so someone who owns the debt has a call option on MARA at 26 and anything higher than 26 they are in the money. The debt is due in 2030 so you get your principal back at least by then and you own a call option at 26 and will profit off that. Just for comparison I looked up on their options chain and the cost to buy a 27 strike call option for 2027 is 9 bucks or 900 per 100 shares. So someone could use options and sell naked calls to generate income knowing they have a call option in theory on the debt. If BTC keeps going up the debt holders here will do very well.
I saw MARA doing the same thing.
The advantage MSTR has is they are earliest to the party. They already own 1.5% of the worlds BTC. Not sure how anyone can catch them, but being 2nd to the party is way better than being 200,000th.
Because if you believe in the concept - then every company will buy BTC at some point. Not as their primary business - but as a way to store their wealth that is inflationary proof.
I think this is what people misunderstand about BTC. It is not going to replace the dollar (or fiat in general), it will coexist. Fiat is for smaller transactions, BTC is a store of wealth. Example: If a company has 100m in dollars, they can choose to keep it and be exposed to 7% US govt printing per year + inflation, which devalues their 100m in a year to 90m. But if you put it in BTC, then take it back out in a year, you have 110M in USD - because BTC will not deflate.
This example of course is stripped of any premium on hype, reddit, bitcoin bros, or anything else. This is static price BTC.
I think BTC cannot be what it MIGHT have been given that financial instruments were created that remove the supply feature and that to me was its greatest attribute. Now a futures trader or firm can either go long to infinity or short and that impacts all other markets and thus the price. People were rushing to seek futures and ETFs because it meant a sign of wide adoption, well that just is not true because only professionals and institutions use futures and ETFs are not deep enough to impact supply and demand and it introduced leverage through futures and through products (there are leveraged funds now and it will likely get worse in number as this goes on).
The greatest risk on MSTR is as he keeps leveraging he keeps diluting himself and if he loses that all in ability through his voting percentage and if things ever do go south it might get messy, plus he will have to keep rolling out converts over and over and over to keep the party going and what happens with the new converts is they are converted at either higher numbers or there will be associated interest due. Meaning say right now the converts are based on near market price, so the batch he just did is probably around 300 per share maybe higher but lets just say 300...well when those come due and the guy isnt going to pay off the convert debt he will roll it forward, why would a debt holder want to own a zero coupon debt at a higher convert price when the debt being rolled forward was lower previously? I would bet his earlier converts were at lower convert prices as the stock was in the 200s and below at that time so if Mike wants to roll new debt out and NOT convert well those terms wont be as good for the holder. And the more he issues the more leveraged the company becomes and the less he will own of it.
@vanzack
I think BTC cannot be what it MIGHT have been given that financial instruments were created that remove the supply feature and that to me was its greatest attribute. Now a futures trader or firm can either go long to infinity or short and that impacts all other markets and thus the price. People were rushing to seek futures and ETFs because it meant a sign of wide adoption, well that just is not true because only professionals and institutions use futures and ETFs are not deep enough to impact supply and demand and it introduced leverage through futures and through products (there are leveraged funds now and it will likely get worse in number as this goes on).
The greatest risk on MSTR is as he keeps leveraging he keeps diluting himself and if he loses that all in ability through his voting percentage and if things ever do go south it might get messy, plus he will have to keep rolling out converts over and over and over to keep the party going and what happens with the new converts is they are converted at either higher numbers or there will be associated interest due. Meaning say right now the converts are based on near market price, so the batch he just did is probably around 300 per share maybe higher but lets just say 300...well when those come due and the guy isnt going to pay off the convert debt he will roll it forward, why would a debt holder want to own a zero coupon debt at a higher convert price when the debt being rolled forward was lower previously? I would bet his earlier converts were at lower convert prices as the stock was in the 200s and below at that time so if Mike wants to roll new debt out and NOT convert well those terms wont be as good for the holder. And the more he issues the more leveraged the company becomes and the less he will own of it.
I’m holding big bags of them … I can’t say that I will not trade them if right price comes up but I’m priced out of “day trading them now”. Once it hit my mark I will sell it and convert to BTC for long haul. What I have in some of these can be very very very good , let’s just say. I’m not in crap projects so I trust it. I’m free rolling into everything basically so if I get another 5x-10x then it will be converted. That’s a minimum prediction IMO
I’ve been playing in the “jungle” last few days. I can’t believe that someone with your background doesn’t do it. I have ZERO experience before 2017 …. Ive been trading these non stop for last few days .. it’s a grind I will say but you can make a “year salary in a week” .. the market is so freaking wild right now. Almost every coin that is coming to market is hitting multi million dollar MCs.. I’m getting these at 80k-100k MC. I don’t buy all them but if I see them on X or tick tok and there is “backing” I will give it a go
@wallstreetcappers
I’m holding big bags of them … I can’t say that I will not trade them if right price comes up but I’m priced out of “day trading them now”. Once it hit my mark I will sell it and convert to BTC for long haul. What I have in some of these can be very very very good , let’s just say. I’m not in crap projects so I trust it. I’m free rolling into everything basically so if I get another 5x-10x then it will be converted. That’s a minimum prediction IMO
I’ve been playing in the “jungle” last few days. I can’t believe that someone with your background doesn’t do it. I have ZERO experience before 2017 …. Ive been trading these non stop for last few days .. it’s a grind I will say but you can make a “year salary in a week” .. the market is so freaking wild right now. Almost every coin that is coming to market is hitting multi million dollar MCs.. I’m getting these at 80k-100k MC. I don’t buy all them but if I see them on X or tick tok and there is “backing” I will give it a go
Only reason I don’t post them all is I don’t want a newbie to buy it ( for some reason if they read this ) and NOT know what to do. Then they say “superbeets” scammed them. I know you know what I’m talking about.
But you got my email..I’ll send u over the sites and u can watch it.
Here is one that I did very well in today :
ANGUS - that’s the ticket for Solana .. got into this at 110k MC. It’s running. Already cashed my investment plus a 100% return and will let the rest ride
@wallstreetcappers
Only reason I don’t post them all is I don’t want a newbie to buy it ( for some reason if they read this ) and NOT know what to do. Then they say “superbeets” scammed them. I know you know what I’m talking about.
But you got my email..I’ll send u over the sites and u can watch it.
Here is one that I did very well in today :
ANGUS - that’s the ticket for Solana .. got into this at 110k MC. It’s running. Already cashed my investment plus a 100% return and will let the rest ride
@wallstreetcappers Only reason I don’t post them all is I don’t want a newbie to buy it ( for some reason if they read this ) and NOT know what to do. Then they say “superbeets” scammed them. I know you know what I’m talking about. But you got my email..I’ll send u over the sites and u can watch it. Here is one that I did very well in today : ANGUS - that’s the ticket for Solana .. got into this at 110k MC. It’s running. Already cashed my investment plus a 100% return and will let the rest ride
It’s done around 1100% … I’ve been watching closely May be pulling soon if enough wallets don’t start catching it
Quote Originally Posted by superbeets:
@wallstreetcappers Only reason I don’t post them all is I don’t want a newbie to buy it ( for some reason if they read this ) and NOT know what to do. Then they say “superbeets” scammed them. I know you know what I’m talking about. But you got my email..I’ll send u over the sites and u can watch it. Here is one that I did very well in today : ANGUS - that’s the ticket for Solana .. got into this at 110k MC. It’s running. Already cashed my investment plus a 100% return and will let the rest ride
It’s done around 1100% … I’ve been watching closely May be pulling soon if enough wallets don’t start catching it
Yeah I like shooting craps still but over the years my risk profile has shifted a bit, not that I dont have some risk stuff and in fact almost all I have is too much risk but the low quality super high risk stuff Ive been staying away from for the last few years and thankfully so. I dont post my stuff on here because other members have abused what I have posted because it gives them a reward that I lost on something when they feel like they were boxed or banned so going back a long ways I used to post stocks all the time and when it became a means of attacks and slander and insult I just decided not to continue doing so.
I went through an early phase a LONG time ago of risky high reward all loss stuff and Ive traded Forex and options (still do those) and futures almost any instrument for investing Ive played around with and now I have settled in on a niche that works better when less damaging implosion risk. I probably should take some gains I have this year and play around with some of the stuff you mention. The problems I have are that it takes TIME to research and learn, when I get into something I want to understand and know what and why, I like to look for an edge or a way to try and help reduce mistakes and avoid public traps so part of why I havent gone into the casino of crypto is the learning curve about all the projects. I can tell just from what little research I have done that the alt space is just the pink sheets meme stocks options players wet dream that it is total hype and scheme and manipulation...that freaks me out to think that all this full risk full loss stuff exists and it is completely unregulated and completely open range for whatever manipulation anyone can come up with. Its like all the bad aspects of the investment markets and none of the regulation and zero recourse...that is very very very very dangerous. Second is I hate the cost and hoop jumping, it bugs me alot. It means that to play in the casino you are paying multiple vigs to do so and I hate that...really hate it. If there were a no cost path in and one could go in ONE door and play ANY coin then yeah I would probably have done so already but it bugs me like crazy getting vigged up and down just to participate.
@superbeets
Yeah I like shooting craps still but over the years my risk profile has shifted a bit, not that I dont have some risk stuff and in fact almost all I have is too much risk but the low quality super high risk stuff Ive been staying away from for the last few years and thankfully so. I dont post my stuff on here because other members have abused what I have posted because it gives them a reward that I lost on something when they feel like they were boxed or banned so going back a long ways I used to post stocks all the time and when it became a means of attacks and slander and insult I just decided not to continue doing so.
I went through an early phase a LONG time ago of risky high reward all loss stuff and Ive traded Forex and options (still do those) and futures almost any instrument for investing Ive played around with and now I have settled in on a niche that works better when less damaging implosion risk. I probably should take some gains I have this year and play around with some of the stuff you mention. The problems I have are that it takes TIME to research and learn, when I get into something I want to understand and know what and why, I like to look for an edge or a way to try and help reduce mistakes and avoid public traps so part of why I havent gone into the casino of crypto is the learning curve about all the projects. I can tell just from what little research I have done that the alt space is just the pink sheets meme stocks options players wet dream that it is total hype and scheme and manipulation...that freaks me out to think that all this full risk full loss stuff exists and it is completely unregulated and completely open range for whatever manipulation anyone can come up with. Its like all the bad aspects of the investment markets and none of the regulation and zero recourse...that is very very very very dangerous. Second is I hate the cost and hoop jumping, it bugs me alot. It means that to play in the casino you are paying multiple vigs to do so and I hate that...really hate it. If there were a no cost path in and one could go in ONE door and play ANY coin then yeah I would probably have done so already but it bugs me like crazy getting vigged up and down just to participate.
It’s been absolutely insane with these new solana coins. I mean insane !!!
almost everything that’s coming though is getting a 10x minimum.. I’ve seen several already do a 100x I was not in those but had a 25x for my highest .. I can’t leave my money in for that long .. too scary Greed kills people.. I know I lose money but I don’t want to be rugged
My only concern is the amounts of money that is playing around down here.. there is billions of dollars being thrown around in the very low cap coins .. my concern is with the amount of coins that the big push will not hit the “good” coins.. again that’s just a “theory” I still FIRMLY believe we will have a great showing for the “good” coins.. just as I’ve said before , may not be the 100x and 1000x shiba /doge days.. I would not keep my money in them if I was concerned .. and I have concerning amounts of money in them
@wallstreetcappers
It’s been absolutely insane with these new solana coins. I mean insane !!!
almost everything that’s coming though is getting a 10x minimum.. I’ve seen several already do a 100x I was not in those but had a 25x for my highest .. I can’t leave my money in for that long .. too scary Greed kills people.. I know I lose money but I don’t want to be rugged
My only concern is the amounts of money that is playing around down here.. there is billions of dollars being thrown around in the very low cap coins .. my concern is with the amount of coins that the big push will not hit the “good” coins.. again that’s just a “theory” I still FIRMLY believe we will have a great showing for the “good” coins.. just as I’ve said before , may not be the 100x and 1000x shiba /doge days.. I would not keep my money in them if I was concerned .. and I have concerning amounts of money in them
Agree with your reply and that is why I said these alt coins are like the pink sheets and OTCBB stocks but in a larger multiple AND not regulated AND no recourse AND high fee structures AND hoops you jump through AND the potential for theft. Crypto has all the risks of the pink sheets and so much more. Its nutzo to me to take that level of risk and cost and hassle but as you say TONS of people are doing it.
The other thing is the reason why those alts are moving is people are buying them not that there is any true value creation its just supply and demand and there will be a ton of people that get royally screwed by tossing money into the crypto-casino and are not prudent and not the proper research to try and limit risk. There are too many decimal places in these, that scares the crap out of me.
@superbeets
Agree with your reply and that is why I said these alt coins are like the pink sheets and OTCBB stocks but in a larger multiple AND not regulated AND no recourse AND high fee structures AND hoops you jump through AND the potential for theft. Crypto has all the risks of the pink sheets and so much more. Its nutzo to me to take that level of risk and cost and hassle but as you say TONS of people are doing it.
The other thing is the reason why those alts are moving is people are buying them not that there is any true value creation its just supply and demand and there will be a ton of people that get royally screwed by tossing money into the crypto-casino and are not prudent and not the proper research to try and limit risk. There are too many decimal places in these, that scares the crap out of me.
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