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    All Forums | General Discussion

    Christianity continued....

    «First Previous 345 ... 91011 Next Last»
    EX4life
    RJSmith
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    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:00 AM ET #51

    -Using the above framework, and applying it to the topic of religion, we will be able to find the right view of God, as well as answer the four big questions of life:

    A) Origin - Where did we come from? 
    B) Ethics - How should we live? 
    C) Meaning - What is the purpose of life? 
    D) Destiny - Where is mankind heading? 

    You might have the question of how does one go about applying this framework in the pursuit of God? A step-by-step question/answer approach is one of the best tactics to use. Narrowing the list of possible questions down produces the following:

    1) Does absolute truth exist? 
    2) Do reason and religion mix?
    3) Does God exist?
    4) Can God be known?
    5) Is Jesus God?
    6) Does God care about me?


    Reply
    -Using the above framework, and applying it to the topic of religion, we will be able to find the right view of God, as well as answer the four big questions of life:

    A) Origin - Where did we come from? 
    B) Ethics - How should we live? 
    C) Meaning - What is the purpose of life? 
    D) Destiny - Where is mankind heading? 

    You might have the question of how does one go about applying this framework in the pursuit of God? A step-by-step question/answer approach is one of the best tactics to use. Narrowing the list of possible questions down produces the following:

    1) Does absolute truth exist? 
    2) Do reason and religion mix?
    3) Does God exist?
    4) Can God be known?
    5) Is Jesus God?
    6) Does God care about me?


     
    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:01 AM ET #52

    Let's figure the answers out to these questions so we can find out the truth of God!

    1) Does absolute truth exist? First, if absolute truth does not exist, then we really cannot be sure of anything (spiritual or not), and we end up either an agnostic, unsure if we can really know anything, or a pluralist, accepting every position because we are not sure which, if any, are right.

    Absolute truth is defined as that which matches reality, that which corresponds to its object, telling it like it is. Some say that there is no such thing as absolute truth, but taking such a stand becomes self-defeating. The relativist, for example, says, "All truth is relative," yet one must ask: is that statement absolutely true? If so, then absolute truth exists; if not, then why consider it? Postmodernism affirms no truth, yet it affirms at least one absolute truth: postmodernism is true. In the end, absolute truth becomes undeniable.

    Further, absolute truth is naturally narrow and excludes its opposite. For example: 2 + 2 = 4, with no other answer being possible. This point becomes critical as different belief systems and worldviews are compared. If one belief system has components that are proven true, then any competing belief system with contrary claims must be false. Also, we must keep in mind that absolute truth is not impacted by sincerity and desire. No matter how sincerely someone embraces a lie, it is still a lie. And no desire in the world can make something true that is false. 

    The answer of question one is that absolute truth exists. This being the case, agnosticism, postmodernism, relativism, and skepticism are all false positions.

    2) Do reason and religion mix? Some say this is not possible, but - why not? The truth is, logic is vital when examining spiritual claims because it helps us understand why some claims should be excluded and other embraced. Logic is absolutely critical in dismantling pluralism (which says that all truth claims, even those that oppose each other, are equal and valid).


    Reply
    Let's figure the answers out to these questions so we can find out the truth of God!

    1) Does absolute truth exist? First, if absolute truth does not exist, then we really cannot be sure of anything (spiritual or not), and we end up either an agnostic, unsure if we can really know anything, or a pluralist, accepting every position because we are not sure which, if any, are right.

    Absolute truth is defined as that which matches reality, that which corresponds to its object, telling it like it is. Some say that there is no such thing as absolute truth, but taking such a stand becomes self-defeating. The relativist, for example, says, "All truth is relative," yet one must ask: is that statement absolutely true? If so, then absolute truth exists; if not, then why consider it? Postmodernism affirms no truth, yet it affirms at least one absolute truth: postmodernism is true. In the end, absolute truth becomes undeniable.

    Further, absolute truth is naturally narrow and excludes its opposite. For example: 2 + 2 = 4, with no other answer being possible. This point becomes critical as different belief systems and worldviews are compared. If one belief system has components that are proven true, then any competing belief system with contrary claims must be false. Also, we must keep in mind that absolute truth is not impacted by sincerity and desire. No matter how sincerely someone embraces a lie, it is still a lie. And no desire in the world can make something true that is false. 

    The answer of question one is that absolute truth exists. This being the case, agnosticism, postmodernism, relativism, and skepticism are all false positions.

    2) Do reason and religion mix? Some say this is not possible, but - why not? The truth is, logic is vital when examining spiritual claims because it helps us understand why some claims should be excluded and other embraced. Logic is absolutely critical in dismantling pluralism (which says that all truth claims, even those that oppose each other, are equal and valid).


     
    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:02 AM ET #53

    For example, Islam and Judaism claim that Jesus is not God, whereas Christianity claims He is. One of the core laws of logic (I took logic in high school, btw... hated it at the time, but obviously is helping me in the long run haha) is the law of non-contradiction, which says something cannot be both "A" and "non-A" at the same time and in the same sense. Applying this law to the claims Judaism, Islam, and Christianity means that one is right and the other two are wrong. Jesus cannot be both God and non-God. Used properly, logic is a potent weapon against pluralism because it clearly demonstrates that contrary truth claims cannot both be true. This understanding topples the whole "true for you but not for me" mindset.

    Logic also dispels the whole "all roads lead to the top of the mountain" analogy that pluralists use. Logic shows that each belief system has its own set of signs that point to radically different locations in the end. Logic shows that the proper illustration of a search for spiritual truth is more like a maze - one path makes it through to truth, while all others lead to dead ends. All faiths may have some similarities, but they differ in major ways in their core doctrines. 

    The conclusion is that you can use reason and logic in matters of religion. That being the case, pluralism (the belief that all truth claims are equally true and valid) is ruled out because it is illogical and contradictory to believe that diametrically opposing truth claims can both be right.

    3) Does God exist? Atheists and naturalists (who do not accept anything beyond this physical world and universe) say "no." While volumes have been written and debates have been raged throughout history on this one question, it is actually not difficult to answer. To give it proper attention, you must first ask the question: Why do we have something rather than nothing at all? In other words, how did you and everything around you get here? The argument for God can be presented very simply:

    Something exists.
    You do not get something from nothing.
    Therefore, a necessary and eternal Being exists. 

    You cannot deny you exist because you have to exist in order to deny your own existence (which is self-defeating), so the first premise above is true. No one believes you can get something from nothing (i.e. that "nothing" produced the universe), so the second premise is true. Therefore, the third premise must be true - an eternal Being responsible for everything must exist.

    This is a position no thinking atheist denies; they just claim that the universe is that eternal being. However, the problem with that stance is that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning. And everything that has a beginning must have a cause; therefore, the universe had a cause and is not eternal. Because the only two sources of eternality are an eternal universe (proven to be untrue) or an eternal Creator, the only logical conclusion is that God exists. Answering the question of God's existence in the affirmative rules out atheism as a valid belief system.


    Reply
    For example, Islam and Judaism claim that Jesus is not God, whereas Christianity claims He is. One of the core laws of logic (I took logic in high school, btw... hated it at the time, but obviously is helping me in the long run haha) is the law of non-contradiction, which says something cannot be both "A" and "non-A" at the same time and in the same sense. Applying this law to the claims Judaism, Islam, and Christianity means that one is right and the other two are wrong. Jesus cannot be both God and non-God. Used properly, logic is a potent weapon against pluralism because it clearly demonstrates that contrary truth claims cannot both be true. This understanding topples the whole "true for you but not for me" mindset.

    Logic also dispels the whole "all roads lead to the top of the mountain" analogy that pluralists use. Logic shows that each belief system has its own set of signs that point to radically different locations in the end. Logic shows that the proper illustration of a search for spiritual truth is more like a maze - one path makes it through to truth, while all others lead to dead ends. All faiths may have some similarities, but they differ in major ways in their core doctrines. 

    The conclusion is that you can use reason and logic in matters of religion. That being the case, pluralism (the belief that all truth claims are equally true and valid) is ruled out because it is illogical and contradictory to believe that diametrically opposing truth claims can both be right.

    3) Does God exist? Atheists and naturalists (who do not accept anything beyond this physical world and universe) say "no." While volumes have been written and debates have been raged throughout history on this one question, it is actually not difficult to answer. To give it proper attention, you must first ask the question: Why do we have something rather than nothing at all? In other words, how did you and everything around you get here? The argument for God can be presented very simply:

    Something exists.
    You do not get something from nothing.
    Therefore, a necessary and eternal Being exists. 

    You cannot deny you exist because you have to exist in order to deny your own existence (which is self-defeating), so the first premise above is true. No one believes you can get something from nothing (i.e. that "nothing" produced the universe), so the second premise is true. Therefore, the third premise must be true - an eternal Being responsible for everything must exist.

    This is a position no thinking atheist denies; they just claim that the universe is that eternal being. However, the problem with that stance is that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning. And everything that has a beginning must have a cause; therefore, the universe had a cause and is not eternal. Because the only two sources of eternality are an eternal universe (proven to be untrue) or an eternal Creator, the only logical conclusion is that God exists. Answering the question of God's existence in the affirmative rules out atheism as a valid belief system.


     
    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:03 AM ET #54

    Now, this conclusion says nothing about what kind of God exists, but amazingly enough, it does do one sweeping thing - it rules out all pantheistic religions. All pantheistic worldviews say that the universe is God and is eternal. And this assertion is false. So Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and all other pantheistic religions are ruled out as valid belief systems. 

    Further, we learn some interesting things about this God who created the universe. He is (and these are the same as toward the beginning of my comment):

    -Supernatural in nature (as He exists outside of His creation)
    -Incredibly powerful (to have created all that is known)
    -Eternal (self-existent, as He exists outside of time and space)
    -Omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it)
    -Timeless and changeless (He created time)
    -Immaterial (because He transcends space)
    -Personal (the impersonal cannot create personality)
    -Necessary (as everything else depends on Him)
    -Infinite and singular (as you cannot have two infinites)
    -Diverse yet has unity (as nature exhibits diversity)
    -Intelligent (supremely, to create everything)
    -Purposeful (as He deliberately created everything)
    -Moral (no moral law can exist without a lawgiver)
    -Caring (or no moral laws would have been given)

    This Being exhibits characteristics very similar to the God of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which interestingly enough, are the only core faiths left standing after atheism and pantheism have been eliminated. Note that one of the big questions in life (origins) is now answered: we know where we came from.


    Reply
    Now, this conclusion says nothing about what kind of God exists, but amazingly enough, it does do one sweeping thing - it rules out all pantheistic religions. All pantheistic worldviews say that the universe is God and is eternal. And this assertion is false. So Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and all other pantheistic religions are ruled out as valid belief systems. 

    Further, we learn some interesting things about this God who created the universe. He is (and these are the same as toward the beginning of my comment):

    -Supernatural in nature (as He exists outside of His creation)
    -Incredibly powerful (to have created all that is known)
    -Eternal (self-existent, as He exists outside of time and space)
    -Omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it)
    -Timeless and changeless (He created time)
    -Immaterial (because He transcends space)
    -Personal (the impersonal cannot create personality)
    -Necessary (as everything else depends on Him)
    -Infinite and singular (as you cannot have two infinites)
    -Diverse yet has unity (as nature exhibits diversity)
    -Intelligent (supremely, to create everything)
    -Purposeful (as He deliberately created everything)
    -Moral (no moral law can exist without a lawgiver)
    -Caring (or no moral laws would have been given)

    This Being exhibits characteristics very similar to the God of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which interestingly enough, are the only core faiths left standing after atheism and pantheism have been eliminated. Note that one of the big questions in life (origins) is now answered: we know where we came from.


     
    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:03 AM ET #55

    4) Can God be known? At this point, the need for religion is replaced by something more important - the need for revelation. If mankind is to know this God well, it is up to God to reveal Himself to His creation. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all claim to have a book that is God's revelation to man, but the question is which (if any) is actually true? Pushing aside minor differences, the two core areas of dispute are, 

    1) The New Testament of the Bible, and
    2) The person of Jesus Christ

    Islam and Judaism both claim that the New Testament of the Bible is untrue in what it claims, and both deny that Jesus is God incarnate, while Christianity affirms both to be true.

    There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ's death), to the multiplicity of the accounts (nine authors in 27 books of the New Testament), to the archaeological evidence - none of which have ever contradicted a single claim that the New Testament makes. - to the fact that the apostles went to their deaths claiming they had seen Jesus in action and that He had come back from  the dead, Christianity sets the bar in terms of providing the proof to back up its claims. The New Testament's historical authenticity - that it conveys a truthful account of the actual events as they occurred - is the only right conclusion to reach once all the evidence has been examined.

    5) Is Jesus God? When it comes to Jesus, one finds a very curious thing about Him - He claimed to be God in the flesh. Jesus own words (e.g; "Before Abraham was born I AM"), His actions (e.g. forgiving sins, accepting worship), Hi sinless and miraculous life (which He used to prove His truth claims over opposing claims), and His resurrection all support His claim to be God. The New Testament writers affirm this fact over and over again in their writings. 

    6) Does God care about me? Now, if Jesus is God, then what He says must be true. And if Jesus said that the Bible is inerrant and true in everything that it says (which He did), this must mean that the Bible is true in what it proclaims. As we have already learned, two competing truth claims cannot both be right. So anything is the Islamic Koran or writings of Judaism that contradict the Bible cannot be true. In fact, both Judaism and Islam fail since they both say that Jesus is not God incarnate, while the evidence says otherwise. And because we can indeed know God (because He has revealed Himself in His written Word and in Christ), all forms of agnosticism are refuted. Lastly, another big question of life is answered - that of ethics - as the Bible contains clear instructions on how mankind ought to live.

    This same Bible proclaims that God cares deeply for mankind and wishes all to know him intimately. In fact, He cares so much that He became a man to show His creation exactly what He is like. There are many men who have sought to be God, but only one God who sought to be man so He could save those He deeply loves from an eternity separated from Him. This fact demonstrates the existential relevancy of Christianity and also answers the last two big questions of life - meaning and destiny. Each person has been designed by God for a purpose, and each has a destiny that awaits him - one of eternal life with God or eternal separation from Him. This deduction (and the point of God becoming a man in Christ) also refutes Deism, which says God is not interested in the affairs of mankind.

    In the end, we see that ultimate truth about God can be found and the worldview maze successfully navigated by testing various truth claims and systematically pushing aside falsehoods so that only truth remains. Using the tests of logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and existential relevancy ,coupled with asking the right questions, yields truthful and reasonable conclusions about religion and God. Everyone should agree that the only reason to believe something is that it is true - nothing more. Sadly, true belief is a matter of the will, and no matter how much logical evidence is presented, some will still choose to deny the God who is there and miss the one true path to harmony with Him.
    Reply
    4) Can God be known? At this point, the need for religion is replaced by something more important - the need for revelation. If mankind is to know this God well, it is up to God to reveal Himself to His creation. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all claim to have a book that is God's revelation to man, but the question is which (if any) is actually true? Pushing aside minor differences, the two core areas of dispute are, 

    1) The New Testament of the Bible, and
    2) The person of Jesus Christ

    Islam and Judaism both claim that the New Testament of the Bible is untrue in what it claims, and both deny that Jesus is God incarnate, while Christianity affirms both to be true.

    There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ's death), to the multiplicity of the accounts (nine authors in 27 books of the New Testament), to the archaeological evidence - none of which have ever contradicted a single claim that the New Testament makes. - to the fact that the apostles went to their deaths claiming they had seen Jesus in action and that He had come back from  the dead, Christianity sets the bar in terms of providing the proof to back up its claims. The New Testament's historical authenticity - that it conveys a truthful account of the actual events as they occurred - is the only right conclusion to reach once all the evidence has been examined.

    5) Is Jesus God? When it comes to Jesus, one finds a very curious thing about Him - He claimed to be God in the flesh. Jesus own words (e.g; "Before Abraham was born I AM"), His actions (e.g. forgiving sins, accepting worship), Hi sinless and miraculous life (which He used to prove His truth claims over opposing claims), and His resurrection all support His claim to be God. The New Testament writers affirm this fact over and over again in their writings. 

    6) Does God care about me? Now, if Jesus is God, then what He says must be true. And if Jesus said that the Bible is inerrant and true in everything that it says (which He did), this must mean that the Bible is true in what it proclaims. As we have already learned, two competing truth claims cannot both be right. So anything is the Islamic Koran or writings of Judaism that contradict the Bible cannot be true. In fact, both Judaism and Islam fail since they both say that Jesus is not God incarnate, while the evidence says otherwise. And because we can indeed know God (because He has revealed Himself in His written Word and in Christ), all forms of agnosticism are refuted. Lastly, another big question of life is answered - that of ethics - as the Bible contains clear instructions on how mankind ought to live.

    This same Bible proclaims that God cares deeply for mankind and wishes all to know him intimately. In fact, He cares so much that He became a man to show His creation exactly what He is like. There are many men who have sought to be God, but only one God who sought to be man so He could save those He deeply loves from an eternity separated from Him. This fact demonstrates the existential relevancy of Christianity and also answers the last two big questions of life - meaning and destiny. Each person has been designed by God for a purpose, and each has a destiny that awaits him - one of eternal life with God or eternal separation from Him. This deduction (and the point of God becoming a man in Christ) also refutes Deism, which says God is not interested in the affairs of mankind.

    In the end, we see that ultimate truth about God can be found and the worldview maze successfully navigated by testing various truth claims and systematically pushing aside falsehoods so that only truth remains. Using the tests of logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and existential relevancy ,coupled with asking the right questions, yields truthful and reasonable conclusions about religion and God. Everyone should agree that the only reason to believe something is that it is true - nothing more. Sadly, true belief is a matter of the will, and no matter how much logical evidence is presented, some will still choose to deny the God who is there and miss the one true path to harmony with Him.
     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:04 AM ET #56

    "I'm genuinely interested in the answer because I've never heard one that is satisfactory.  It always seems that organized religions draw lines at some point"

    I am not quite 100% sure of what you mean when you say that organized religions draw lines at some point, but what I do know is that Christianity provides legitimate answers to any and all questions you can think of, pertaining to religion, morals, life after death, how you should live your life, etc. Christianity is not always bright and sunny either. There are hard times; there will continue to be hard times; but what Christianity offers that other religions do not is the very real sense of hope.

    Christianity does offer the purest route to personal fulfillment. Yet, Christianity, in particular, is filled with paradoxes and difficult demands. 

    Jesus says for us to love our enemies, to turn the other cheek, that pride is a sin, that if you want to become rich, give away your money; if you truly want to be great, you must be a servant; that being persecuted in His name is a blessing; that the rich are poor; the up are down; the down are up; the self-righteous are sinners; the sinners are forgiven; the last are first and the first are last. 

    As I have probably said many times in this thread, Jesus came to earth to be the perfect example of how we should live our lives. Did you know that in the Bible, there are a few stories that told of Jesus washing the feet of his disciples, of women, etc? In that culture, washing the feet of somebody else was something a servant would do. The disciples were so shook up and bent out of shape over this; why would the "King of Kings" and the "Son of God" be washing His own disciples feet? And that's when Jesus responded with one of his amazing responses; He said that He did not come into this world to be served, but to serve, and give give His life as a ransom for many.

    I want to touch on just 2 more things.


    Reply
    "I'm genuinely interested in the answer because I've never heard one that is satisfactory.  It always seems that organized religions draw lines at some point"

    I am not quite 100% sure of what you mean when you say that organized religions draw lines at some point, but what I do know is that Christianity provides legitimate answers to any and all questions you can think of, pertaining to religion, morals, life after death, how you should live your life, etc. Christianity is not always bright and sunny either. There are hard times; there will continue to be hard times; but what Christianity offers that other religions do not is the very real sense of hope.

    Christianity does offer the purest route to personal fulfillment. Yet, Christianity, in particular, is filled with paradoxes and difficult demands. 

    Jesus says for us to love our enemies, to turn the other cheek, that pride is a sin, that if you want to become rich, give away your money; if you truly want to be great, you must be a servant; that being persecuted in His name is a blessing; that the rich are poor; the up are down; the down are up; the self-righteous are sinners; the sinners are forgiven; the last are first and the first are last. 

    As I have probably said many times in this thread, Jesus came to earth to be the perfect example of how we should live our lives. Did you know that in the Bible, there are a few stories that told of Jesus washing the feet of his disciples, of women, etc? In that culture, washing the feet of somebody else was something a servant would do. The disciples were so shook up and bent out of shape over this; why would the "King of Kings" and the "Son of God" be washing His own disciples feet? And that's when Jesus responded with one of his amazing responses; He said that He did not come into this world to be served, but to serve, and give give His life as a ransom for many.

    I want to touch on just 2 more things.


     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:04 AM ET #57

    The Four Spiritual Laws are a way of sharing the good news of the salvation that is available through faith in Jesus Christ.It is a simple way of organizing the important information in the Gospel into four points:

    1) God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life - John 10:10 gives us the reason that Jesus came, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."
    2) Humanity is tainted by sin and is therefore separated from God - As a result, we cannot know God's wonderful plan for our lives. God created us to have fellowship with Him, but humanity brought sin into the world, and is therefore separated from Him. What is the solution?
    3) Jesus Christ is God's only provision for our sin - Through Jesus Christ, we can have all our sins forgiven and restore a right relationship with God. As pointed out several times, Jesus Himself declares that He is the only way of salvation. So how can I receive this wonderful gift of salvation?
    4) We must place our faith in Jesus Christ as Savior in order to receive the gift of salvation and know God's wonderful plan for our lives - We can be saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

    Real meaning in life is not found in only accepting Jesus Christ as Savior, as wonderful as that is. Rather, real meaning in life is when one begins to follow Christ as His disciple, learning of Him, spending time with Him in His Word, communing with Him in prayer, and walking with Him in obedience to His commands. 

    We have a choice. We can continue to seek to guide our own lives, which will result in emptiness, or we can choose to pursue God and His will for our lives with a whole heart, which will result in living life to the full, having the desires of our heart met, and finding contentment and satisfaction. This is so because our Creator loves us so much and desires the best for us (not necessarily the easiest life, but most fulfilling). 

    The Christian life can be compared to the choice of whether to purchase the expensive seats at a sporting event that are close to the action, or pay less and watch the game from a distance. Watching God work "from the front row" is what we should choose but, sadly, is not what most people choose. Watching God work firsthand is for whole-hearted disciples of Christ who have truly stopped pursuing their own desires to pursue instead God's purposes. They have paid the price (complete surrender to Christ and His will); they are experiencing life to its fullest; and they can face themselves, their fellow man, and their Maker with no regrets.



    Have a great day Drizle. Time for me to head off to work 
    Reply
    The Four Spiritual Laws are a way of sharing the good news of the salvation that is available through faith in Jesus Christ.It is a simple way of organizing the important information in the Gospel into four points:

    1) God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life - John 10:10 gives us the reason that Jesus came, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."
    2) Humanity is tainted by sin and is therefore separated from God - As a result, we cannot know God's wonderful plan for our lives. God created us to have fellowship with Him, but humanity brought sin into the world, and is therefore separated from Him. What is the solution?
    3) Jesus Christ is God's only provision for our sin - Through Jesus Christ, we can have all our sins forgiven and restore a right relationship with God. As pointed out several times, Jesus Himself declares that He is the only way of salvation. So how can I receive this wonderful gift of salvation?
    4) We must place our faith in Jesus Christ as Savior in order to receive the gift of salvation and know God's wonderful plan for our lives - We can be saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

    Real meaning in life is not found in only accepting Jesus Christ as Savior, as wonderful as that is. Rather, real meaning in life is when one begins to follow Christ as His disciple, learning of Him, spending time with Him in His Word, communing with Him in prayer, and walking with Him in obedience to His commands. 

    We have a choice. We can continue to seek to guide our own lives, which will result in emptiness, or we can choose to pursue God and His will for our lives with a whole heart, which will result in living life to the full, having the desires of our heart met, and finding contentment and satisfaction. This is so because our Creator loves us so much and desires the best for us (not necessarily the easiest life, but most fulfilling). 

    The Christian life can be compared to the choice of whether to purchase the expensive seats at a sporting event that are close to the action, or pay less and watch the game from a distance. Watching God work "from the front row" is what we should choose but, sadly, is not what most people choose. Watching God work firsthand is for whole-hearted disciples of Christ who have truly stopped pursuing their own desires to pursue instead God's purposes. They have paid the price (complete surrender to Christ and His will); they are experiencing life to its fullest; and they can face themselves, their fellow man, and their Maker with no regrets.



    Have a great day Drizle. Time for me to head off to work 
     
    RJSmith
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:16 AM ET #58

    We have the problem that we can't imagine "nothing". So we're looking for reasons.
    But there are no reason.
    Someday trillions of years from now there will be nothing again.
    Just like an unattended building will vanish in time. Everything turns into dust.
    Reply
    We have the problem that we can't imagine "nothing". So we're looking for reasons.
    But there are no reason.
    Someday trillions of years from now there will be nothing again.
    Just like an unattended building will vanish in time. Everything turns into dust.
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 3:20 PM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:

    We have the problem that we can't imagine "nothing". So we're looking for reasons.
    But there are no reason.
    Someday trillions of years from now there will be nothing again.
    Just like an unattended building will vanish in time. Everything turns into dust.

    Indeed an unattended building will vanish in time, that is the law of the physical world but in the spiritual world nothing vanishes even a trillion years from now because a spiritual world is eternal...forever lasting with no end.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:

    We have the problem that we can't imagine "nothing". So we're looking for reasons.
    But there are no reason.
    Someday trillions of years from now there will be nothing again.
    Just like an unattended building will vanish in time. Everything turns into dust.

    Indeed an unattended building will vanish in time, that is the law of the physical world but in the spiritual world nothing vanishes even a trillion years from now because a spiritual world is eternal...forever lasting with no end.

     
    vanzack
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 3:43 PM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Indeed an unattended building will vanish in time, that is the law of the physical world but in the spiritual world nothing vanishes even a trillion years from now because a spiritual world is eternal...forever lasting with no end.

    Then what were you before you were born?

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Indeed an unattended building will vanish in time, that is the law of the physical world but in the spiritual world nothing vanishes even a trillion years from now because a spiritual world is eternal...forever lasting with no end.

    Then what were you before you were born?

     
    Colts03
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 4:51 PM ET #61

    you religious people are insane. 
    Reply
    you religious people are insane. 
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 5:06 PM ET #62

    Quote Originally Posted by Colts03:

    you religious people are insane. 

    Now that sir is debatable.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Colts03:

    you religious people are insane. 

    Now that sir is debatable.

     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 5:28 PM ET #63

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     

    Reply

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     

     
    kaponofor3
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 5:45 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Then what were you before you were born?



    Modern physics has the easy answer for that: matter.

    Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only its form changed according to the fundamental laws of physics.

    The question then becomes -- does consciousness represent separate matter? If it is, then what happens to that matter after we die?


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Then what were you before you were born?



    Modern physics has the easy answer for that: matter.

    Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only its form changed according to the fundamental laws of physics.

    The question then becomes -- does consciousness represent separate matter? If it is, then what happens to that matter after we die?


     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 6:04 PM ET #65

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     


    I guess those people are just screwed. Should have been born later.  Guess they're all in hell...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     


    I guess those people are just screwed. Should have been born later.  Guess they're all in hell...
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 7:04 PM ET #66

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     

    I know I answered this question on the thread titled "Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity" Maybe you should go read that thread sometime eh?

    Anyway I will answer it again just for you Hutch.

    All those people prior to Jesus Christ have not been punished by God.

    For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. ---Romans 3:23-26

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    I do have a question.  If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?  What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?

     

    I know I answered this question on the thread titled "Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity" Maybe you should go read that thread sometime eh?

    Anyway I will answer it again just for you Hutch.

    All those people prior to Jesus Christ have not been punished by God.

    For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. ---Romans 3:23-26

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 8:01 PM ET #67

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    I know I answered this question on the thread titled "Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity" Maybe you should go read that thread sometime eh?

    Anyway I will answer it again just for you Hutch.

    All those people prior to Jesus Christ have not been punished by God.

    For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. ---Romans 3:23-26

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

    Furthermore,

    From Adam and Eve, God had been dialogue through Moses etc.

    The ten commandments were the law people to abide by.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    I know I answered this question on the thread titled "Post your tough questions in here regarding Christianity" Maybe you should go read that thread sometime eh?

    Anyway I will answer it again just for you Hutch.

    All those people prior to Jesus Christ have not been punished by God.

    For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. ---Romans 3:23-26

    Praise the Lord Almighty!!

    Furthermore,

    From Adam and Eve, God had been dialogue through Moses etc.

    The ten commandments were the law people to abide by.

     
    Laroja
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 8:40 PM ET #68

    What about Noah's ark? We have a 900 year old man who built an ark that held 2 of every animal while they had sex in a boat. Don't even get me started on Jonah rofl.
    Reply
    What about Noah's ark? We have a 900 year old man who built an ark that held 2 of every animal while they had sex in a boat. Don't even get me started on Jonah rofl.
     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Sep. 19, 2011 - 8:40 PM ET #69

    Here we go again lmao
    Reply
    Here we go again lmao
     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:26 AM ET #70

    "If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?"

    We need to understand that God does not have to tell us anything that He does not want to. We are entitled to absolutely NOTHING. To challenge God's authority and question His motives, we are essentially raising ourselves up to the level of God. And that simply cannot happen, no matter how much we want it to happen. 

    With that being said, I am going to try and answer these questions to the best of my ability; I hope that you guys read my responses and let it sink in.

    Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law." This verse declares that God the Father sent His Son when "the time had fully come." There were many things occurring at the time of the first century that, at least by human reasoning, seem to make it ideal for Christ to come then.

    1) There was a great anticipation among the person of that time that the Messiah would come. The Roman rule over Israel made the person hungry for the Messiah's coming.
    2) Rome had unified much of the world under its government, giving a sense of unity to the various lands. Also, because the empire was relatively peaceful, travel was possible, allowing the early Christians to spread the gospel. Such freedom to travel would have been impossible in other eras.
    3) While Rome had conquered militarily, Greece had conquered culturally. A "common" form of the Greek language was the trade language and was spoken throughout the empire, making it possible to communicate the gospel to many different people groups through one common language. 
    4) The fact that many false idols had failed to give them victory over the Roman conquerors caused many to abandon the worship of those idols. At the same time, in the more "cultured" cities, the Greek philosophy and science of the time left others spiritually empty in the same way that atheism of communist governments leaves a spiritual void today.
    5) The mystery religions of the time emphasized a savior-god and required worshipers to offer bloody sacrifices, thus making the gospel of Christ which involved one ultimate sacrifice believable to them. The Greeks also believed in the immortality of the soul (but not the body).
    6) The Roman army recruited soldiers from among the provinces, introducing these men to Roman culture and to the ideas that had not reached those outlying provinces yet. The earliest introduction of the gospel to Britain was the result of the efforts of Christian soldiers stationed there.

    The above statements are based on the type of question posed here; about the speculation about why that particular point in history was a good time for Christ to come. But we understand that God's ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8), and these may or may not have been some of the reasons for why He chose that particular time to send His Son. 

    From the context in Galatians 3 and 4, it is evident that God sought to lay a foundation through the Jewish Law that would prepare for the coming of the Messiah. The Law was meant to help people understand the depth of their sinfulness so that they might more readily accept the cure for that sin through Jesus the Messiah. The Law was also "put in charge" to lead people to Jesus as the Messiah. Add to this the sacrificial system that pointed to the need for a sacrifice for sin as well as its own inadequacy.

    Finally, Christ came when He did in fulfillment of specific prophecy. Daniel 9: 24-27 shows the prophecy being made by Daniel, talking about the timing of Christ's incarnation (500 years before before Christ); which was obviously brought to pass by Jesus' birth. 

    The timing of Christ's incarnation was such that the people of that time were prepared for His coming. The people of every century since then have more than sufficient evidence that Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah through His fulfillment of the Scriptures that pictured and prophesied His coming in great detail.
    Reply
    "If God created the universe, why did He wait so long to have the Virgin Mary get preggy?"

    We need to understand that God does not have to tell us anything that He does not want to. We are entitled to absolutely NOTHING. To challenge God's authority and question His motives, we are essentially raising ourselves up to the level of God. And that simply cannot happen, no matter how much we want it to happen. 

    With that being said, I am going to try and answer these questions to the best of my ability; I hope that you guys read my responses and let it sink in.

    Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law." This verse declares that God the Father sent His Son when "the time had fully come." There were many things occurring at the time of the first century that, at least by human reasoning, seem to make it ideal for Christ to come then.

    1) There was a great anticipation among the person of that time that the Messiah would come. The Roman rule over Israel made the person hungry for the Messiah's coming.
    2) Rome had unified much of the world under its government, giving a sense of unity to the various lands. Also, because the empire was relatively peaceful, travel was possible, allowing the early Christians to spread the gospel. Such freedom to travel would have been impossible in other eras.
    3) While Rome had conquered militarily, Greece had conquered culturally. A "common" form of the Greek language was the trade language and was spoken throughout the empire, making it possible to communicate the gospel to many different people groups through one common language. 
    4) The fact that many false idols had failed to give them victory over the Roman conquerors caused many to abandon the worship of those idols. At the same time, in the more "cultured" cities, the Greek philosophy and science of the time left others spiritually empty in the same way that atheism of communist governments leaves a spiritual void today.
    5) The mystery religions of the time emphasized a savior-god and required worshipers to offer bloody sacrifices, thus making the gospel of Christ which involved one ultimate sacrifice believable to them. The Greeks also believed in the immortality of the soul (but not the body).
    6) The Roman army recruited soldiers from among the provinces, introducing these men to Roman culture and to the ideas that had not reached those outlying provinces yet. The earliest introduction of the gospel to Britain was the result of the efforts of Christian soldiers stationed there.

    The above statements are based on the type of question posed here; about the speculation about why that particular point in history was a good time for Christ to come. But we understand that God's ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8), and these may or may not have been some of the reasons for why He chose that particular time to send His Son. 

    From the context in Galatians 3 and 4, it is evident that God sought to lay a foundation through the Jewish Law that would prepare for the coming of the Messiah. The Law was meant to help people understand the depth of their sinfulness so that they might more readily accept the cure for that sin through Jesus the Messiah. The Law was also "put in charge" to lead people to Jesus as the Messiah. Add to this the sacrificial system that pointed to the need for a sacrifice for sin as well as its own inadequacy.

    Finally, Christ came when He did in fulfillment of specific prophecy. Daniel 9: 24-27 shows the prophecy being made by Daniel, talking about the timing of Christ's incarnation (500 years before before Christ); which was obviously brought to pass by Jesus' birth. 

    The timing of Christ's incarnation was such that the people of that time were prepared for His coming. The people of every century since then have more than sufficient evidence that Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah through His fulfillment of the Scriptures that pictured and prophesied His coming in great detail.
     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:26 AM ET #71

    "What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?"

    John 3:13 says, "And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven."

    Looking at this verse in context (verses 10-12 especially), we see that Jesus is speaking on the subject of the authority and validity of His teaching. Jesus explains why He alone is qualified to speak of these things, namely, because He is to only one who has ever gone to heaven and then come back with knowledge from heaven to teach to people.

    No man, therefore, can speak of heavenly things with the authoritativeness as Jesus can. As no one has ascended into heaven and returned (except Jesus), so no one is qualified to speak of these things but He who came down from heaven.

    This does not mean that no one had ever gone to heaven or had been saved; Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others were there. Rather, it means that no one had ascended and "returned," in such a way as to be qualified to speak of the things there.

    The term "progressive revelation" refers to the idea and teaching that God revealed various aspects of His will and overall plan for humanity over different periods of time. But how does this apply to salvation? 

    No matter when a person has lived, their salvation is ultimately dependent on the work of Christ and a faith placed in God, but the amount of knowledge a person had concerning the specifics of God's plan has increased through the ages via God's progressive revelation.

    It appears that at most, the normative Old Testament salvific requirements were:
    1) Faith in God's unity
    2) Acknowledgement of human sinfulness
    3) Acceptance of God's necessary grace
    4) Understanding that there would be a coming Messiah

    One example supporting this position (that contains the first 3) is Luke 18: 10-14. This event took place before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, so it clearly involves a person who has no knowledge of the New Testament gospel message as its articulated today. 

    In the tax collector's simple statement, "God, be merciful to me, the sinner," we find an acknowledgement of (1) God, (2) sin, and (3) faith. Then Jesus makes a very interesting statement: He says the man went home "justified." This is the exact same term used by Paul to describe the position of a New Testament saint who has believed the gospel message and put their trust in Christ. 
    Reply
    "What happened to all the people who were born and died before Christ?"

    John 3:13 says, "And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven."

    Looking at this verse in context (verses 10-12 especially), we see that Jesus is speaking on the subject of the authority and validity of His teaching. Jesus explains why He alone is qualified to speak of these things, namely, because He is to only one who has ever gone to heaven and then come back with knowledge from heaven to teach to people.

    No man, therefore, can speak of heavenly things with the authoritativeness as Jesus can. As no one has ascended into heaven and returned (except Jesus), so no one is qualified to speak of these things but He who came down from heaven.

    This does not mean that no one had ever gone to heaven or had been saved; Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others were there. Rather, it means that no one had ascended and "returned," in such a way as to be qualified to speak of the things there.

    The term "progressive revelation" refers to the idea and teaching that God revealed various aspects of His will and overall plan for humanity over different periods of time. But how does this apply to salvation? 

    No matter when a person has lived, their salvation is ultimately dependent on the work of Christ and a faith placed in God, but the amount of knowledge a person had concerning the specifics of God's plan has increased through the ages via God's progressive revelation.

    It appears that at most, the normative Old Testament salvific requirements were:
    1) Faith in God's unity
    2) Acknowledgement of human sinfulness
    3) Acceptance of God's necessary grace
    4) Understanding that there would be a coming Messiah

    One example supporting this position (that contains the first 3) is Luke 18: 10-14. This event took place before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, so it clearly involves a person who has no knowledge of the New Testament gospel message as its articulated today. 

    In the tax collector's simple statement, "God, be merciful to me, the sinner," we find an acknowledgement of (1) God, (2) sin, and (3) faith. Then Jesus makes a very interesting statement: He says the man went home "justified." This is the exact same term used by Paul to describe the position of a New Testament saint who has believed the gospel message and put their trust in Christ. 
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
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    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:27 AM ET #72

    One aspect missing in Luke's account is the acknowledgement of a coming Messiah, but other New Testament passages (such as John 4:25) speak to the fact that this may have been a common teaching.

    A quick search of Scripture reveals the following verses in both the Old and New Testament that support the fact that faith in God has always been the avenue one must take for salvation (I am just going to list the verses; feel free to look them up):

    -Genesis 15:6
    -Joel 2:32
    -Hebrews 10:4
    -Hebrews 11: 1-2
    -Hebrews 11:6

    For people that lived and died before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God saved them on the amount of knowledge that they did have. Their faith looked forward into something that they could not see, whereas today, believers look back on events that they can see.

    Verses in Scripture point to the fact that God, in the past, did not simply allow those with no direct knowledge of Christ to perish, but did give them enough revelation to be saved:
    -Acts 14:16
    -Acts 17:30
    -Romans 3:25

    However, with Christ's work now having been accomplished, the requirement has changed; the "times of ignorance" are over.

    Progressive revelation does not mean that God's people in the Old Testament were without any revelation or understanding. The basis of salvation has been, and will always be, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and the means of salvation has always been faith in God. However, the content of a person's faith depended on the amount of revelation that God was pleased to give at a certain time.
    Reply
    One aspect missing in Luke's account is the acknowledgement of a coming Messiah, but other New Testament passages (such as John 4:25) speak to the fact that this may have been a common teaching.

    A quick search of Scripture reveals the following verses in both the Old and New Testament that support the fact that faith in God has always been the avenue one must take for salvation (I am just going to list the verses; feel free to look them up):

    -Genesis 15:6
    -Joel 2:32
    -Hebrews 10:4
    -Hebrews 11: 1-2
    -Hebrews 11:6

    For people that lived and died before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God saved them on the amount of knowledge that they did have. Their faith looked forward into something that they could not see, whereas today, believers look back on events that they can see.

    Verses in Scripture point to the fact that God, in the past, did not simply allow those with no direct knowledge of Christ to perish, but did give them enough revelation to be saved:
    -Acts 14:16
    -Acts 17:30
    -Romans 3:25

    However, with Christ's work now having been accomplished, the requirement has changed; the "times of ignorance" are over.

    Progressive revelation does not mean that God's people in the Old Testament were without any revelation or understanding. The basis of salvation has been, and will always be, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and the means of salvation has always been faith in God. However, the content of a person's faith depended on the amount of revelation that God was pleased to give at a certain time.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:27 AM ET #73

    "What about Noah's ark? We have a 900 year old man who built an ark that held 2 of every animal while they had sex in a boat. "

    As I stated, I believe, in my very first post, I will not criticize, bash, or make fun of anybody for asking any legitimate questions regarding Christianity. All I ask for is the same respect. I am going to answer this comment with hopefully an extensive enough "light" on the subject, so that you do not assume something did/did not happen without checking it out for yourself. 

    What I mean by that, is if you took the time to study the Bible, the details of the Bible, and the overall message, you would understand that the flood, Noah's ark, and everything else incorporated into that story is true. I don't know if you are basing your comment on what you have seen in movies, or songs, or what; but it is clearly obvious, even if you don't take the Bible as truth (which I have already proven that the Bible is truth), that the flood actually happened, that Noah did exist, and that God promises never to flood the entire world ever again. 

    I will answer individual questions about this event, instead of tackling the issue in one, big response.

    Q1: How large was Noah's ark?

    -(Genesis 6:15) "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits." The Ark described in the Bible was a huge vessel. Not until the late 1800s was a ship built that exceeded the capacity of Noah's Ark. The proportions of the Ark are like that of a modern day cargo ship. Given the good indication of a cubit size (21.888 inches), we know that the Ark could have been up to 550 feet long, 91.7 feet wide, and 55 feet high. 


    Reply
    "What about Noah's ark? We have a 900 year old man who built an ark that held 2 of every animal while they had sex in a boat. "

    As I stated, I believe, in my very first post, I will not criticize, bash, or make fun of anybody for asking any legitimate questions regarding Christianity. All I ask for is the same respect. I am going to answer this comment with hopefully an extensive enough "light" on the subject, so that you do not assume something did/did not happen without checking it out for yourself. 

    What I mean by that, is if you took the time to study the Bible, the details of the Bible, and the overall message, you would understand that the flood, Noah's ark, and everything else incorporated into that story is true. I don't know if you are basing your comment on what you have seen in movies, or songs, or what; but it is clearly obvious, even if you don't take the Bible as truth (which I have already proven that the Bible is truth), that the flood actually happened, that Noah did exist, and that God promises never to flood the entire world ever again. 

    I will answer individual questions about this event, instead of tackling the issue in one, big response.

    Q1: How large was Noah's ark?

    -(Genesis 6:15) "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits." The Ark described in the Bible was a huge vessel. Not until the late 1800s was a ship built that exceeded the capacity of Noah's Ark. The proportions of the Ark are like that of a modern day cargo ship. Given the good indication of a cubit size (21.888 inches), we know that the Ark could have been up to 550 feet long, 91.7 feet wide, and 55 feet high. 


     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:28 AM ET #74

    Q2: How could Noah build the Ark?

    -The Bible does not tell us that Noah and his sons built the ark by themselves. Noah could have hired skilled laborers or had relatives, such as Methuselah and Lamech, help build the vessel. However, nothing indicates that they could not - or did not - build the Ark themselves in the time allotted. The physical strength and mental processes of men in Noah's day was as least as great (quite likely, even superior) to our own. They certainly would have had efficient means for harvesting and cutting timber, as well as for shaping, transporting, and erecting the massive beams and boards required. 

    The Bible does not specifically say how long it took Noah to build the Ark. When Noah is first mentioned in Genesis 5:32, he is 500 years old. When Noah enters the Ark, he is 600 years old. So at the absolute most, it took Noah 100 years to build the Ark.

    If one or two men today can erect a large house in just 12 weeks, how much more could 3 or 4 men do in a few years? Adam's descendants were making complex musical instruments, forging metal, and building cities - their tools, machines, and techniques were not primitive. 

    History has shown that technology can be lost. In Egypt, China, and the Americas the earlier dynasties built more impressive buildings or had finer art or better science. Many so-called modern inventions turn out to be re-inventions, like concrete, which was used by the Romans. 

    In reality, when God created Adam, he was perfect. Today, the individual human intellect has suffered from 6,000 years of sin and decay. The sudden rise in technology in the last few centuries has nothing to do with increasing intelligence; it is the combination of publishing and sharing of ideas, and the spread of key inventions that became tools for investigation and manufacturing. 
    Reply
    Q2: How could Noah build the Ark?

    -The Bible does not tell us that Noah and his sons built the ark by themselves. Noah could have hired skilled laborers or had relatives, such as Methuselah and Lamech, help build the vessel. However, nothing indicates that they could not - or did not - build the Ark themselves in the time allotted. The physical strength and mental processes of men in Noah's day was as least as great (quite likely, even superior) to our own. They certainly would have had efficient means for harvesting and cutting timber, as well as for shaping, transporting, and erecting the massive beams and boards required. 

    The Bible does not specifically say how long it took Noah to build the Ark. When Noah is first mentioned in Genesis 5:32, he is 500 years old. When Noah enters the Ark, he is 600 years old. So at the absolute most, it took Noah 100 years to build the Ark.

    If one or two men today can erect a large house in just 12 weeks, how much more could 3 or 4 men do in a few years? Adam's descendants were making complex musical instruments, forging metal, and building cities - their tools, machines, and techniques were not primitive. 

    History has shown that technology can be lost. In Egypt, China, and the Americas the earlier dynasties built more impressive buildings or had finer art or better science. Many so-called modern inventions turn out to be re-inventions, like concrete, which was used by the Romans. 

    In reality, when God created Adam, he was perfect. Today, the individual human intellect has suffered from 6,000 years of sin and decay. The sudden rise in technology in the last few centuries has nothing to do with increasing intelligence; it is the combination of publishing and sharing of ideas, and the spread of key inventions that became tools for investigation and manufacturing. 
     
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Sep. 20, 2011 - 4:29 AM ET #75

    Q3: How could Noah fit all of the animals on the Ark?

    -Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe suggests that, at most, 16,000 animals were all that was needed to preserve the created kinds that God brought into the Ark.

    The Ark did not need to carry every kind of animal - nor did God command it. It carried only air-breathing, land-dwelling animals, creeping things, and winged animals such as birds. Aquatic life and many amphibious creatures could have survived in sufficient numbers outside of the Ark, significantly cutting down the total number of animals that needed to be on board.

    Another factor which greatly reduces the space requirements is the fact that the tremendous variety in species we see today did not exist in the days of Noah. Only the parent "kinds" of these species were required to be on board in order to repopulate the earth. For example, only 2 dogs were needed to give rise to all the dog species that exist today. 

    It is more likely that Noah took juveniles on board the Ark to repopulate the earth after the Flood was over. These younger animals also required less space, less food, and have less waste. To go along with this statement is that most animal types are small, only a few dozen are large; making the average size of each animal something on the order of a cat. Woodmorappe also concludes that only about 15% of the animals on the Ark would have been bigger than a sheep. 

    The Ark had three levels (Genesis 6:16) and a lot of rooms (Genesis 6:14). It has been calculated that a little more than half (54.75%) of the 2,773,925 cubic feet could store 125,000 sheep-sized animals, leaving over 1.5 million cubic feet of free space.


    Reply
    Q3: How could Noah fit all of the animals on the Ark?

    -Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe suggests that, at most, 16,000 animals were all that was needed to preserve the created kinds that God brought into the Ark.

    The Ark did not need to carry every kind of animal - nor did God command it. It carried only air-breathing, land-dwelling animals, creeping things, and winged animals such as birds. Aquatic life and many amphibious creatures could have survived in sufficient numbers outside of the Ark, significantly cutting down the total number of animals that needed to be on board.

    Another factor which greatly reduces the space requirements is the fact that the tremendous variety in species we see today did not exist in the days of Noah. Only the parent "kinds" of these species were required to be on board in order to repopulate the earth. For example, only 2 dogs were needed to give rise to all the dog species that exist today. 

    It is more likely that Noah took juveniles on board the Ark to repopulate the earth after the Flood was over. These younger animals also required less space, less food, and have less waste. To go along with this statement is that most animal types are small, only a few dozen are large; making the average size of each animal something on the order of a cat. Woodmorappe also concludes that only about 15% of the animals on the Ark would have been bigger than a sheep. 

    The Ark had three levels (Genesis 6:16) and a lot of rooms (Genesis 6:14). It has been calculated that a little more than half (54.75%) of the 2,773,925 cubic feet could store 125,000 sheep-sized animals, leaving over 1.5 million cubic feet of free space.


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