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Born again Christians. What is this nonsense all about?

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Posted: #101
Hey what about free will. Haven't touched on that yet   
 
Covers Linesmen
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Posted: #102
Quote Originally Posted by RJSmith:

The happiest nation on earth is in the top-3 when it comes to the numbers of atheists/agnostics.. Coincidence?


63% top tax rate?

happy = blissful ignorance
 
Legend
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Posted: #103
Christians made a fatal flaw when they claimed that the bilbe is the inspired writing of god.

This makes it unchangable, afterall - a god that is all knowing would have certainly known 2k years ago that there are scientific inaccuracies in the bible.
 
But because it is unchangeable and the writing of god - they have to stick to it - no matter what - and no matter how stupid it becomes over time with scientific discovery.  Humans and dinosaurs are only 5k years old?  Has to be, because the bible says so - oh but wait - maybe a day in biblical terms wasnt a day as it is today?   Or why wasnt there a kangaroo or panda bear on Noahs Ark?

Science defeats everything in the end.  And a 2k year old book written by uneducated (even for their time) men is no match.
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Prospect
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Posted: #104
No real born again Christian thinks there better then anyone else. We love people and don't want them to make the same mistakes that we have done.

We have All sinned and fell short of the glory of God.

Gob Bless you and have a blessed day.
 
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Posted: #105
Quote Originally Posted by neocon:

No real born again Christian thinks there better then anyone else. We love people and don't want them to make the same mistakes that we have done.

We have All sinned and fell short of the glory of God.

Gob Bless you and have a blessed day.

Which god should bless me?  The one that said this:????

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

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Posted: #106
When maguire and nascar die they cease to exist in an eternal state, we christians live on forever in heaven
 
better hope your little dogmatic stance is correct
 
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Posted: #107
Quote Originally Posted by Paulsy:

When maguire and nascar die they cease to exist in an eternal state, we christians live on forever in heaven
 
better hope your little dogmatic stance is correct

Hence the fear and brainwashing.

To think that somehow YOU or ANYONE knows what happens when you die is laughable.  By the premise, you would have to die to know - and well - when you die thats it.

Describe your heaven to me.  This always kills me to hear christians describe heaven.  It is always in the most basic of human terms:  things like "streets of gold" and "seeing everyone you ever loved" - always defined in such human and non godlike terms.  And how can heaven be so great if some of your loved ones are in hell?  Lets say you make it to heaven, but then you find out your mom went to hell - and now you are in eternity without your mom - and even worse you know that your mom is toast.  How is this paradise?

Its all so nonsensical.

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Posted: #108
Well my entire family are Christians and we attended church together and they are waiting to be judged and will pass that test and ascend into heaven together
If you think we all evolved from some sort of platypus or ape, then good luck with that. I choose to believe we were created by a higher power. Believe in Christ and you shall be healed, don't believe and you roll the dice. It's simply a matter of belief, however; if you are wrong and I am wrong two completely different outcomes.
 
Don't you even question how we all came to be, with our complicated bodies and big brains (depesche and maguire excluded) ?
 
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Posted: #109
paulsy, are you of the belief that god must have created life because there's no conclusive proof of how life began?  in other words, you don't understand how life began so it must be God?
 
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Posted: #110
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

paulsy, are you of the belief that god must have created life because there's no conclusive proof of how life began?  in other words, you don't understand how life began so it must be God?

Its exactly what I explain above - the gap theory of god - that because we cant explain or understand how we are created that god must have done it - the gap.

I am able to say "i dont know".  Christians cant say "i dont know" so they replace it with god.

To think that paulsys definition of his and his families god is somehow the right god - seems absurd to me - because if paulsy was born in china he wouldnt be worshipping his god - it would be another - and he would be just as convinced as he is today that he has the right god.  As did the greeks, romans, mayans, and every other society to date.

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Posted: #111
right, and i had this discussion with another one in the other forum (well, it actually wasn't a discussion because you never get any real responses) telling him that if he was in his formative years in germany in the 1930's he'd be a nazi killing person, christian, polish, etc.  if he was young and exposed to al qaeda, he'd be fighting for that cause against christian infidels.  if he was born in the jungle of africa, he may go his whole life without ever hearing words like religion, jesus, god, christians, etc.  and i suspect he'd be equally convinced his way was the right way in each situation.
 
Captain
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Posted: #112
"63% top tax rate
happy = blissful ignorance"

 

KOAJ:  Got to hand it to you...even in a thread about religion, you manage to get the topic of  'taxes' woven in.

No one can ever fault your consistency though....

 


 
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Posted: #113
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Describe your heaven to me.  This always kills me to hear christians describe heaven.  It is always in the most basic of human terms:  things like "streets of gold" and "seeing everyone you ever loved" - always defined in such human and non godlike terms.  


I thought you were in a higher intellectual percentile on covers but this post disproves my initial belief.

For one, wtf is a godlike term? What deistic language should be used to describe heaven? Or maybe we should figure out what a deistic language is first?

Lets ignore that bit of nonsense and come back to the first bit of fallacious reasoning.

When you listen to "Today" by Smashing Pumpkins, do you suppose he wants to "burn his eyes out before he gets out"?

Does Walt Whitman's "Passage to India" have a singular meaning of sailing a boat to you?

This reductio ad absurdem exercise was meant to show that there are metaphors in the Bible, a fact any 7th grade Christian could tell you.

The Catholic teaching is that heaven is your eternal presence with God. Any specifics as to location, space, grandiose civil engineering are metaphorical to the happiness that one receives from this union.
 
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Posted: #114
So platypus - why does god need to speak in metaphors?
 
He wrote the bible, he was jesus - why not something like:
 
"Hey you know, in about 2000 years, there will be this thing called the internet.  And on this internet, you will be able to discuss me!!"
 
or
 
"Im going to speak very clearly here.  Polio is caused by a virus. It has a cure, and the cure is not by hanging victims because they are possessed by the devil."
 
Why metaphors?  From the outside looking in - metaphors are always used when vagueness benefits the source - as in psychics and religion.  It leaves things to interpretation - but when we are talking about god shouldnt we have absolutes?
 
It dont fit.
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Posted: #115
well, if God was in the future telling business, that may conflict with our free will. Free will is a central tenet to Catholicism and without it, lets face it...there's just no point.

God doesnt necessarily speak in metaphors but I know metaphors were used because the Bible was meant as a teaching tool for the mostly illiterate masses at the time. If he laid out on the rules, and the book of Revelations ended in something like Rule 3331.B Subsection A. 2: Im coming back soon, bitches...it would have as much readership as the Criminal Code (ever wanted to sit through the hole thing, for fun?).

Interpretation is what its all about. Religion is just a group of people finding the best way to live their lives. It won't be perfect because we're meant to find our own way. If everything was controlled in our lives we would be responsible for nothing; our existence would be meaningless.
 
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Posted: #116
Quote Originally Posted by platypus:

well, if God was in the future telling business, that may conflict with our free will. Free will is a central tenet to Catholicism and without it, lets face it...there's just no point.

God doesnt necessarily speak in metaphors but I know metaphors were used because the Bible was meant as a teaching tool for the mostly illiterate masses at the time. If he laid out on the rules, and the book of Revelations ended in something like Rule 3331.B Subsection A. 2: Im coming back soon, bitches...it would have as much readership as the Criminal Code (ever wanted to sit through the hole thing, for fun?).

Interpretation is what its all about. Religion is just a group of people finding the best way to live their lives. It won't be perfect because we're meant to find our own way. If everything was controlled in our lives we would be responsible for nothing; our existence would be meaningless.

So how do you explain this verse in your freewill argument?

"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

 

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Posted: #117
Quote Originally Posted by platypus:

well, if God was in the future telling business, that may conflict with our free will. Free will is a central tenet to Catholicism and without it, lets face it...there's just no point.

God doesnt necessarily speak in metaphors but I know metaphors were used because the Bible was meant as a teaching tool for the mostly illiterate masses at the time. If he laid out on the rules, and the book of Revelations ended in something like Rule 3331.B Subsection A. 2: Im coming back soon, bitches...it would have as much readership as the Criminal Code (ever wanted to sit through the hole thing, for fun?).

Interpretation is what its all about. Religion is just a group of people finding the best way to live their lives. It won't be perfect because we're meant to find our own way. If everything was controlled in our lives we would be responsible for nothing; our existence would be meaningless.


Well said. 

And that psalm doesn't counteract fee will AT ALL, vanzack.  It alludes to the fact that God is within all of us each day of our lives, not that he controls our lives.  Free will is at the heart of Christianity.
 
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Posted: #118
Im sure its interpretation.
 
Always interpretation.
 
If only god had been more specific maybe he would have been more believable, or maybe it was just the uninspired work of a bunch of uneducated men and therefore it is not only not specific, but factually incorrect and absurd.

But thats your choice.
 
You would think if god was so concerned about us and loved us so much, and knew that we were prone to critical thinking - that he would give us something more convincing than a series of half truths and riddles.  Why the puzzles god?  Why not just give us proof you exist - YOU CREATED US TO BE CRITICAL THINKERS BUT YET YOU TEASE US WITH UNCRITICAL RIDDLES?  Why?  Thats love?  If we dont buy in to the riddles, we go to hell?  Forever?  Thats love?  Huh?
 
Totally wacky.
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Posted: #119
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

paulsy, are you of the belief that god must have created life because there's no conclusive proof of how life began?  in other words, you don't understand how life began so it must be God?

nope, i believe based on historical evidence, not just because it hasn't been proved otherwise

 
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Posted: #120

Quote Originally Posted by snuke:



Well said. 

And that psalm doesn't counteract fee will AT ALL, vanzack.  It alludes to the fact that God is within all of us each day of our lives, not that he controls our lives.  Free will is at the heart of Christianity.

Aha!

Theres that old interpretation thing again!!

Sometimes bible verses are literal, and sometimes they are metaphoric, and sometimes they are up to interpretation!!  And only YOU know which is which!!

This verse is interpreted by you one way, to someone else another.  But you guys love to talk about the literal meaning of the verses that you cherry pick to be absolutely true dont you?

Its all so silly.  Take a moment and think about what you are proposing.  A bunch of guys wrote a book at a time when they treated the common cold through bloodletting, had no knowledge of germ theory or science - but yet you choose to listen to them about how you should live your life.  Very strange.

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Posted: #121

Quote Originally Posted by snuke:



Well said. 

And that psalm doesn't counteract fee will AT ALL, vanzack.  It alludes to the fact that God is within all of us each day of our lives, not that he controls our lives.  Free will is at the heart of Christianity.

I wrote up a long response but it was lost when I hit submit.  Probably god did it.

So this time its interpretation, other times its literal, and other times metaphoric.  Isnt that convenient?  And only you guys know which is which.

 

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Posted: #122
And its back!!  It reappeared out of the blue!!
 
Coincidence?
 
(thank you jesus)
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Posted: #123
Quote Originally Posted by Paulsy:

nope, i believe based on historical evidence, not just because it hasn't been proved otherwise

Historical evidence?

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Posted: #124
paydajuice said, according to his christian beliefs, i, and everyone else, have to live our lives by religion.  where's the free will in that?
 
 
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Posted: #125
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Its exactly what I explain above - the gap theory of god - that because we cant explain or understand how we are created that god must have done it - the gap.

I am able to say "i dont know".  Christians cant say "i dont know" so they replace it with god.

To think that paulsys definition of his and his families god is somehow the right god - seems absurd to me - because if paulsy was born in china he wouldnt be worshipping his god - it would be another - and he would be just as convinced as he is today that he has the right god.  As did the greeks, romans, mayans, and every other society to date.

I never once said I believed in the RIGHT God, I believe in God, a higher power, never said it was without debate. If you choose to not believe that is up to you, I on the other hand choose to believe and am quite satisfied with my choice. But again, if I am right and you are wrong, an eternity in hell is a pretty steep price to pay for picking the wrong team

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