yeah, but no one is taking every word of the bible literally and living accordingly. society changes and the bible and the koran and other religious books need to be interpreted, don't they. isn't bin laden just interpreting the koran as others interpret the bible to adapt to the changing times. isn't bin laden just thinking outside the box, the box being a religious book that was written many years ago by people whose collective knowledge was exponentially less than what we have now and in a time that has few similarities to today's times?
vanzack, that looks like a winner. i can't wait to see what kind of firestorm that movie causes.
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yeah, but no one is taking every word of the bible literally and living accordingly. society changes and the bible and the koran and other religious books need to be interpreted, don't they. isn't bin laden just interpreting the koran as others interpret the bible to adapt to the changing times. isn't bin laden just thinking outside the box, the box being a religious book that was written many years ago by people whose collective knowledge was exponentially less than what we have now and in a time that has few similarities to today's times?
vanzack, that looks like a winner. i can't wait to see what kind of firestorm that movie causes.
As far as religion is concerned, I believe in "live and let live". You practice what you believe and I will do what I do. Just leave me alone and I will leave you alone. I do object to any religion that brainwashes their children from birth "this is the only True Church and you will be burned by the fires of Hell if you don't follow the precepts". This can scar a person for life. Many religious folks are pretty good people, many are the scum of the earth in their private life. When I hear someone brag about what a great Christian they are I cover my wallet and my gonads because they will try to screw you one way or another.
The problem with "live and let live" is that it is really impossible.
The 2 major western world religion all preach an end game. Paradise. Now, imagine if paradise can be sped up by ignoring the earth, causing wars, fighting the infidels, and generally pleasing god by bringing about revelation faster. This is the situation we have. Pretty dangerous that lots of people feel that the end of the earth will mean their eternity in paradise. Scary.
Add to that all of the things that "live and let live" christians dont let me do:
1. Get medical care because they have some bizarre opposition to stem cell research.
2. Support population growth and unwanted children through free and easy abortions.
3. Elect any elected official that doesnt swear that he speaks to the imaginary man in his head - and our current president hears back from him!! (imagine in history classes 500 years from now when they look at GWB saying he speaks to god about war etc - 5 year old kids will laugh).
So live and let live is a nice theory - but there are hundreds of reasons that your morality infringes on society advancements - and worse of all creates a highly dangerous standoff between the preservation of the earth and humanity - and the end game.
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Quote Originally Posted by Ap1Bfreetorun:
As far as religion is concerned, I believe in "live and let live". You practice what you believe and I will do what I do. Just leave me alone and I will leave you alone. I do object to any religion that brainwashes their children from birth "this is the only True Church and you will be burned by the fires of Hell if you don't follow the precepts". This can scar a person for life. Many religious folks are pretty good people, many are the scum of the earth in their private life. When I hear someone brag about what a great Christian they are I cover my wallet and my gonads because they will try to screw you one way or another.
The problem with "live and let live" is that it is really impossible.
The 2 major western world religion all preach an end game. Paradise. Now, imagine if paradise can be sped up by ignoring the earth, causing wars, fighting the infidels, and generally pleasing god by bringing about revelation faster. This is the situation we have. Pretty dangerous that lots of people feel that the end of the earth will mean their eternity in paradise. Scary.
Add to that all of the things that "live and let live" christians dont let me do:
1. Get medical care because they have some bizarre opposition to stem cell research.
2. Support population growth and unwanted children through free and easy abortions.
3. Elect any elected official that doesnt swear that he speaks to the imaginary man in his head - and our current president hears back from him!! (imagine in history classes 500 years from now when they look at GWB saying he speaks to god about war etc - 5 year old kids will laugh).
So live and let live is a nice theory - but there are hundreds of reasons that your morality infringes on society advancements - and worse of all creates a highly dangerous standoff between the preservation of the earth and humanity - and the end game.
Religion is not just a search for answers. It is what our life revolves around. Everything we do has it traces back to religion. Why do we live the way we do? It all fits into a Mold.
The Jihad is not based from the Koran. The Koran does not say to kill innocent people?
Bin Laden is a extremist.
9-11 is a perfect example of that mold be broken, a hatred to western culture
Bible-
“Turn the other check”
Violence in the bible? – the oppression of the person?
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Religion is not just a search for answers. It is what our life revolves around. Everything we do has it traces back to religion. Why do we live the way we do? It all fits into a Mold.
The Jihad is not based from the Koran. The Koran does not say to kill innocent people?
Bin Laden is a extremist.
9-11 is a perfect example of that mold be broken, a hatred to western culture
Bible-
“Turn the other check”
Violence in the bible? – the oppression of the person?
Read the following. This is what your god wrote in your bible. This is not isolated, there is TONS of this in this horribly written book, supposedly written by an all knowing god:
Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.
If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.
If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]
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Read the following. This is what your god wrote in your bible. This is not isolated, there is TONS of this in this horribly written book, supposedly written by an all knowing god:
Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.
If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.
If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]
Here are some more excerpts from your guide to living - the bible:
When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.
Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.
Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.
Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.
When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.
When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
Here are some more excerpts from your guide to living - the bible:
When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.
Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.
Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.
Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.
When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.
When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]
We will never find the answers . . .believe what you want . . .but have a respect for people beliefs . .
Why should I have respect for people that base their whole lives on talking to an imaginary boogey man?
Serious question:
If I told you that I believe that an alien is god, and pray and sing to him every day, and spend hours a week worshipping this alien - so you respect me? PLEASE.
You christians are the first to poke fun at scientology, islam, judiasm, cults - hell even other christians - but you fail to see the idiocy in your own superstitions.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Quote Originally Posted by PayDaJuice:
We will never find the answers . . .believe what you want . . .but have a respect for people beliefs . .
Why should I have respect for people that base their whole lives on talking to an imaginary boogey man?
Serious question:
If I told you that I believe that an alien is god, and pray and sing to him every day, and spend hours a week worshipping this alien - so you respect me? PLEASE.
You christians are the first to poke fun at scientology, islam, judiasm, cults - hell even other christians - but you fail to see the idiocy in your own superstitions.
Try to explain to me how your god not only advocates slavery, but actually lays out rules to govern slavery, and advocates killing, violence, and stoning.
Please explain.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
0
Go up and read those bible quotes in italics.
Try to explain to me how your god not only advocates slavery, but actually lays out rules to govern slavery, and advocates killing, violence, and stoning.
Why should I have respect for people that base their whole lives on talking to an imaginary boogey man?
Serious question:
If I told you that I believe that an alien is god, and pray and sing to him every day, and spend hours a week worshipping this alien - so you respect me? PLEASE.
You christians are the first to poke fun at scientology, islam, judiasm, cults - hell even other christians - but you fail to see the idiocy in your own superstitions.
Why should I have respect for people that base their whole lives on talking to an imaginary boogey man?
Serious question:
If I told you that I believe that an alien is god, and pray and sing to him every day, and spend hours a week worshipping this alien - so you respect me? PLEASE.
You christians are the first to poke fun at scientology, islam, judiasm, cults - hell even other christians - but you fail to see the idiocy in your own superstitions.
The main difference between religious people and non-believers is that religious people need an answer for unanswerable questions, and non-believers are willing to say "I dont know".
Believers are unable to say "I dont know". They think they know what happens when you die, when you live, what the imaginary man that they bargain with daily wants to hear, etc.....
It is a character flaw or mental deficit.
Scientists say "I dont know" all the time, religious people say "if you dont know it must be god". This is a gap theory - or catch all - that just isnt relevant with our current grasp of science and history.
If humans make it another 500 years religion will be looked at the same way we look at the greek gods and medicine of the dark ages - with laughter.
here's what i would add to this. i agree that to say there must be a god because i don't understand how life began is the epitome of an absence of logic, particularly when many of the people reaching that conclusion aren't particularly bright. but i think some of the "unanswerable questions" are answerable. obviously, some aren't but let's look ahead as you've done. i think we can all agree that the human race is much more knowledgeable today than it was hundreds of years ago. i think we can all agree that the human race will me much more knowledgeable in hundreds of years than it is today and many more questions will be answered as we progress. i do think some day (unless the religious nuts put an end to this world), people will know how life began and how it evolved. but, i also understand that we may never know. but, to assume that we've reached the apex of our collective knowledge today in 2008 also defies logic.
and i'm not sure why you characterize bin laden as an extremist. because he promotes violence in the name of his religion? how many religions haven't done that? has bush not done that to some degree? bin laden has interpreted his religion to fit the current times and the issues he deals with in society. and while i don't know him, i assume that he also believes that everyone has to live their lives by some religion, which of course is islam.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
The main difference between religious people and non-believers is that religious people need an answer for unanswerable questions, and non-believers are willing to say "I dont know".
Believers are unable to say "I dont know". They think they know what happens when you die, when you live, what the imaginary man that they bargain with daily wants to hear, etc.....
It is a character flaw or mental deficit.
Scientists say "I dont know" all the time, religious people say "if you dont know it must be god". This is a gap theory - or catch all - that just isnt relevant with our current grasp of science and history.
If humans make it another 500 years religion will be looked at the same way we look at the greek gods and medicine of the dark ages - with laughter.
here's what i would add to this. i agree that to say there must be a god because i don't understand how life began is the epitome of an absence of logic, particularly when many of the people reaching that conclusion aren't particularly bright. but i think some of the "unanswerable questions" are answerable. obviously, some aren't but let's look ahead as you've done. i think we can all agree that the human race is much more knowledgeable today than it was hundreds of years ago. i think we can all agree that the human race will me much more knowledgeable in hundreds of years than it is today and many more questions will be answered as we progress. i do think some day (unless the religious nuts put an end to this world), people will know how life began and how it evolved. but, i also understand that we may never know. but, to assume that we've reached the apex of our collective knowledge today in 2008 also defies logic.
and i'm not sure why you characterize bin laden as an extremist. because he promotes violence in the name of his religion? how many religions haven't done that? has bush not done that to some degree? bin laden has interpreted his religion to fit the current times and the issues he deals with in society. and while i don't know him, i assume that he also believes that everyone has to live their lives by some religion, which of course is islam.
Try to explain to me how your god not only advocates slavery, but actually lays out rules to govern slavery, and advocates killing, violence, and stoning.
Please explain.
If god were real (word for word) in the bible, he would be a malevolent, homophobic, bully.
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Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:
Go up and read those bible quotes in italics.
Try to explain to me how your god not only advocates slavery, but actually lays out rules to govern slavery, and advocates killing, violence, and stoning.
Please explain.
If god were real (word for word) in the bible, he would be a malevolent, homophobic, bully.
I fully agree that in the future we will know much more than we do know, and that is in part why I think religion will be a dinosaur in the near future.
My point was that believers cant say "i dont know" based on what we know NOW. Now the truth is that if those believers were dropped on planet earth today, and educated with what we know, and then were taught religion, they would laugh it off as absolute nonsense - but because the brainwashing starts at an early age and preys on all of human natures deficiencies - such as guilt and fear - believers dont educate themselves to science and instead choose their 2000 year old poorly written non elightening book.
I also never mentioned Bin Laden in my posts. But I agree - christians like to look at themselves as the "good guys" who somehow have the right to kill and enforce their beliefs....
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
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Club Dirt -
I fully agree that in the future we will know much more than we do know, and that is in part why I think religion will be a dinosaur in the near future.
My point was that believers cant say "i dont know" based on what we know NOW. Now the truth is that if those believers were dropped on planet earth today, and educated with what we know, and then were taught religion, they would laugh it off as absolute nonsense - but because the brainwashing starts at an early age and preys on all of human natures deficiencies - such as guilt and fear - believers dont educate themselves to science and instead choose their 2000 year old poorly written non elightening book.
I also never mentioned Bin Laden in my posts. But I agree - christians like to look at themselves as the "good guys" who somehow have the right to kill and enforce their beliefs....
vanzack, you and i, i'm sorry to say for you, think alike then.
the bin laden reference was for paydajuice. i was using an extreme example to show the similarities between muslims and christians, extremists and all.
paydajuice, you may be right, who knows. i'd just like to see someone bring a little more logic to the argument. if i have to think a certain way, tell me why. i'm too old for fear or insecurity to be the reason. logic, knowledge, superior intelligence. those are the things that persuade me.
i forgot the specifics, but i think i read that if you consolidated the history of the earth into one day, the total life span of the human race wouldn't take up one second. maybe we should revisit this discussion when we are little older and a little smarter.
if you consolidated the universe into a football field, earth wouldn't even be a speck of dirt. you'd need a microscope to find it. maybe someone or some thing on a planet 100,000 light years away has god figured out and it's not what we think it is. maybe it's something none of us could comprehend. maybe it's what the bible says. the possibilities are many.
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vanzack, you and i, i'm sorry to say for you, think alike then.
the bin laden reference was for paydajuice. i was using an extreme example to show the similarities between muslims and christians, extremists and all.
paydajuice, you may be right, who knows. i'd just like to see someone bring a little more logic to the argument. if i have to think a certain way, tell me why. i'm too old for fear or insecurity to be the reason. logic, knowledge, superior intelligence. those are the things that persuade me.
i forgot the specifics, but i think i read that if you consolidated the history of the earth into one day, the total life span of the human race wouldn't take up one second. maybe we should revisit this discussion when we are little older and a little smarter.
if you consolidated the universe into a football field, earth wouldn't even be a speck of dirt. you'd need a microscope to find it. maybe someone or some thing on a planet 100,000 light years away has god figured out and it's not what we think it is. maybe it's something none of us could comprehend. maybe it's what the bible says. the possibilities are many.
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