Couldn't have said it better. The action on most games is not 50/50. Ever notice how most will be one one side yet line doesn't move? If they want 50/50 they will move the line to get split action. If not they will keep it where it is and hope most take the favorite. They know early in the week whats the smart play as the sharps are betting certain games big holding the line steady against the public.
in terms of the betting percentages that are released, what you should expect on a properly set line is to see 60% on the favorite and 40% on the dog... that means the books set a good line, and are taking roughly 50/50 action in terms of the actual money wagered...
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Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:
Couldn't have said it better. The action on most games is not 50/50. Ever notice how most will be one one side yet line doesn't move? If they want 50/50 they will move the line to get split action. If not they will keep it where it is and hope most take the favorite. They know early in the week whats the smart play as the sharps are betting certain games big holding the line steady against the public.
in terms of the betting percentages that are released, what you should expect on a properly set line is to see 60% on the favorite and 40% on the dog... that means the books set a good line, and are taking roughly 50/50 action in terms of the actual money wagered...
I believe (i can speak for other side ) in saying that .....
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
It is better to be feared - than to be loved.
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don't think some of you boys get it....
I believe (i can speak for other side ) in saying that .....
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
I believe (i can speak for other side ) in saying that .....
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
The words of a loser.
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Quote Originally Posted by bookieassassin:
don't think some of you boys get it....
I believe (i can speak for other side ) in saying that .....
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
Couldn't have said it better. The action on most games is not 50/50. Ever notice how most will be one one side yet line doesn't move? If they want 50/50 they will move the line to get split action. If not they will keep it where it is and hope most take the favorite. They know early in the week whats the smart play as the sharps are betting certain games big holding the line steady against the public.
Once again, I never said the games get 50/50 attention, and I've even said they rarely do. It is the INTENTION that the line will get equal looks. They can't predict millions of people's decisions, they can only gauge the public's perception and what they may wager on.
And another point that I've already made that you must have overlooked is that the initial line has to be Vegas' best shot because they only have a few points to move the line in either direction before they open themselves up for exposure that includes "middling."
I never disagreed that there can be so-called letdown spots, but those are all objective decisions that are strictly opinions. Not everyone sees these from the same perspective. Calling a game a "trap" makes it appear that Vegas has only given you one option to place your wager on. It is up to you to decide whether you want the points, or want to give them up. This is where the coin-flip odds exist. The process of deciding which side of the play you prefer isn't called "uncovering a trap game," it's simply called HANDICAPPING.
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Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:
Couldn't have said it better. The action on most games is not 50/50. Ever notice how most will be one one side yet line doesn't move? If they want 50/50 they will move the line to get split action. If not they will keep it where it is and hope most take the favorite. They know early in the week whats the smart play as the sharps are betting certain games big holding the line steady against the public.
Once again, I never said the games get 50/50 attention, and I've even said they rarely do. It is the INTENTION that the line will get equal looks. They can't predict millions of people's decisions, they can only gauge the public's perception and what they may wager on.
And another point that I've already made that you must have overlooked is that the initial line has to be Vegas' best shot because they only have a few points to move the line in either direction before they open themselves up for exposure that includes "middling."
I never disagreed that there can be so-called letdown spots, but those are all objective decisions that are strictly opinions. Not everyone sees these from the same perspective. Calling a game a "trap" makes it appear that Vegas has only given you one option to place your wager on. It is up to you to decide whether you want the points, or want to give them up. This is where the coin-flip odds exist. The process of deciding which side of the play you prefer isn't called "uncovering a trap game," it's simply called HANDICAPPING.
Yes, some lines are TRAPS for the uninformed bettor. The linesmakers are not afraid of the general public, they fear the sharp pro gamblers that put the BIG money up. The linesmakers know the sharps will pound on them if they make a mistake, so serious attention goes into setting the lines. Remember, it is not the linesmakers intention to get the number of bets even on a game, it is getting the money even on the game.
Believe me, there are guys out there who cap their games by reading the USA Today paper while eating a ham sandwich on their lunch break. They do not dig into the games and find any edge that may be there. They call up their buddies and ask, "Who do you like in this game and so on". This is pure Joe Public capping and I would say most fall into this category. For cappers like this, yes, there are traps out there every week. I could go on and on, but I think I have said enough on this subject.
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Yes, some lines are TRAPS for the uninformed bettor. The linesmakers are not afraid of the general public, they fear the sharp pro gamblers that put the BIG money up. The linesmakers know the sharps will pound on them if they make a mistake, so serious attention goes into setting the lines. Remember, it is not the linesmakers intention to get the number of bets even on a game, it is getting the money even on the game.
Believe me, there are guys out there who cap their games by reading the USA Today paper while eating a ham sandwich on their lunch break. They do not dig into the games and find any edge that may be there. They call up their buddies and ask, "Who do you like in this game and so on". This is pure Joe Public capping and I would say most fall into this category. For cappers like this, yes, there are traps out there every week. I could go on and on, but I think I have said enough on this subject.
All you are doing is arguing the definition of trap game which is a waste of time in the first place. You being annoyed with people talking about trap games is like me being annoyed with you. It is pointless and will never go anywhere because all you are arguing is that a trap game means vegas is trying to get over on the public by setting a spread a certian way. However, vegas does not need to set any traps for the public as the public creates them for themselves as they are often wrong. Which has been the case of betting on or against florida st the past two weeks. When I talk about a trap game I am speaking of a game that a team is set up for a letdown and is therefore a trap for them to lose. It just so happens that many times there are these so called trap games for a team the cattle are riding them hard all the way to the slaughter house! And I do not think I am outsmarting vegas in any way. I put my money on vegas bud as I take action. I watch the cattle get lucky some weeks as in the case of the Bears in the NFL this week and get slaughtered other weeks which hopefully will the the case this Sunday. And for you to say its a 50/50 proposition for either team to cover Florida -1 vs Idaho St diminshes any credentials you have. Which after looking at your handicapping history isn't much experience.
Quote Originally Posted by jkochvar:
440 primetime-
I think you are the one missing the point. I never said Vegas always succeeds in getting 50% of the money on each side, in fact, they rarely do. Their INTENTION is to do this because it minimizes their exposure to a loss! Period. They are banking on the only true thing they can rely on, and that is statistics.
And though you reference the Florida St. example, it does you no justice in proving your point. The line in the FSU/BYU game, as well as the USF matchup the following week was intended to do just as I've consistently stated- get equal attention from bettors on both the favorite and the underdog. You are correct about emotional factors, previous weeks performances, etc. factoring into the line. There are many other things considered in developing a line, including talent, home-field, injuris, track records, weather, etc, etc....and because bettors analyze games from different angles, they all tend to arrive at the same conclusions for many different reasons. This results in many people liking one side, and many liking the other. As I've repeatedly said, it's all a game of statistics....they have to create a line that will garner as equal action as possible, because they only have a few points either way to make adjustments once money is placed on either side.
And for the record, I never got high on FSU's win over BYU, nor did I discount USF in last week's game. Your point was not proven and made no sense. Any wise bettor, or bookie for that matter, will tell you the objective is simple: Split the exposure down the middle when possible, and reap the 10% juice. You are obviously one of the guys who thinks they outsmart Vegas from time to time.
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All you are doing is arguing the definition of trap game which is a waste of time in the first place. You being annoyed with people talking about trap games is like me being annoyed with you. It is pointless and will never go anywhere because all you are arguing is that a trap game means vegas is trying to get over on the public by setting a spread a certian way. However, vegas does not need to set any traps for the public as the public creates them for themselves as they are often wrong. Which has been the case of betting on or against florida st the past two weeks. When I talk about a trap game I am speaking of a game that a team is set up for a letdown and is therefore a trap for them to lose. It just so happens that many times there are these so called trap games for a team the cattle are riding them hard all the way to the slaughter house! And I do not think I am outsmarting vegas in any way. I put my money on vegas bud as I take action. I watch the cattle get lucky some weeks as in the case of the Bears in the NFL this week and get slaughtered other weeks which hopefully will the the case this Sunday. And for you to say its a 50/50 proposition for either team to cover Florida -1 vs Idaho St diminshes any credentials you have. Which after looking at your handicapping history isn't much experience.
Quote Originally Posted by jkochvar:
440 primetime-
I think you are the one missing the point. I never said Vegas always succeeds in getting 50% of the money on each side, in fact, they rarely do. Their INTENTION is to do this because it minimizes their exposure to a loss! Period. They are banking on the only true thing they can rely on, and that is statistics.
And though you reference the Florida St. example, it does you no justice in proving your point. The line in the FSU/BYU game, as well as the USF matchup the following week was intended to do just as I've consistently stated- get equal attention from bettors on both the favorite and the underdog. You are correct about emotional factors, previous weeks performances, etc. factoring into the line. There are many other things considered in developing a line, including talent, home-field, injuris, track records, weather, etc, etc....and because bettors analyze games from different angles, they all tend to arrive at the same conclusions for many different reasons. This results in many people liking one side, and many liking the other. As I've repeatedly said, it's all a game of statistics....they have to create a line that will garner as equal action as possible, because they only have a few points either way to make adjustments once money is placed on either side.
And for the record, I never got high on FSU's win over BYU, nor did I discount USF in last week's game. Your point was not proven and made no sense. Any wise bettor, or bookie for that matter, will tell you the objective is simple: Split the exposure down the middle when possible, and reap the 10% juice. You are obviously one of the guys who thinks they outsmart Vegas from time to time.
There are trap plays, you can call them sucker bets, letdowns, whatever. It is a situation and it is why books usually clean up from the suckers, and it is why sharp players can have a bit of an advantage sometimes too. A team like FSU last week, or WASH, it is just too hard for them to come back strong the next week after a big upset like that. All week everyone is telling them how great they are, and the line keeps going up because the public is so impressed.
As for the 50% balanced action, that's nice, but books will take 60-40% action all day, because in the long run things will even out, but also if the fave covers, the 60% they lose (60-44 w/ juice) -16, and if the dog hits they win (66-40) +26, they will take this all day.
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There are trap plays, you can call them sucker bets, letdowns, whatever. It is a situation and it is why books usually clean up from the suckers, and it is why sharp players can have a bit of an advantage sometimes too. A team like FSU last week, or WASH, it is just too hard for them to come back strong the next week after a big upset like that. All week everyone is telling them how great they are, and the line keeps going up because the public is so impressed.
As for the 50% balanced action, that's nice, but books will take 60-40% action all day, because in the long run things will even out, but also if the fave covers, the 60% they lose (60-44 w/ juice) -16, and if the dog hits they win (66-40) +26, they will take this all day.
Consider the UTEP Miners getting between 16-17 on most books. Line opened at 14.5 and the public has been pounding Houston at a 91% clip in online sportsbooks provided by twominutewarning.com/betracker. I'll take the points.Houston is coming off back to back wins against the Big 12. Houston who is a very good team btw and I like Keenum a lot, but they are definately riding high at this point and are oiled up for a subpar performance. They have been overachieving and are playing a sandwhich game in which they take on the Miners. As Houston has an SEC opponent the following week in Miss St. Not to mention college kids are the easiest to mess with their heads. As Kayne West would say "Its crazy how you can go from being Joe Blow, To everybody on your dick, no person" Which makes it the perfect opportunity to make a play against them. While everybody is buying Houston I like to take the team everybody is selling. UTEP meanwhile played Houston last year with an 18 point spread and lost the game 42-35. I look for struggling QB Trevor Vittatoe to get back on track this week and put up a similar 4 TD performance he had last year against the Cougars. To add to the strength of this play UTEP is at home and just got crushed by Texas last week in a televised game. I look for the Miners to be very focused coming into this game as this is probably perceived as their biggest game of the year. They are given an opportunity to beat a ranked opponent at home, it doesn't get much better than that if your a Miner! 9* Top play Take the Miners.
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Consider the UTEP Miners getting between 16-17 on most books. Line opened at 14.5 and the public has been pounding Houston at a 91% clip in online sportsbooks provided by twominutewarning.com/betracker. I'll take the points.Houston is coming off back to back wins against the Big 12. Houston who is a very good team btw and I like Keenum a lot, but they are definately riding high at this point and are oiled up for a subpar performance. They have been overachieving and are playing a sandwhich game in which they take on the Miners. As Houston has an SEC opponent the following week in Miss St. Not to mention college kids are the easiest to mess with their heads. As Kayne West would say "Its crazy how you can go from being Joe Blow, To everybody on your dick, no person" Which makes it the perfect opportunity to make a play against them. While everybody is buying Houston I like to take the team everybody is selling. UTEP meanwhile played Houston last year with an 18 point spread and lost the game 42-35. I look for struggling QB Trevor Vittatoe to get back on track this week and put up a similar 4 TD performance he had last year against the Cougars. To add to the strength of this play UTEP is at home and just got crushed by Texas last week in a televised game. I look for the Miners to be very focused coming into this game as this is probably perceived as their biggest game of the year. They are given an opportunity to beat a ranked opponent at home, it doesn't get much better than that if your a Miner! 9* Top play Take the Miners.
You must be an inexperienced gambler to believe "trap" games exist, coach. To say one side is a trap is to say the other side is the "smart" play, the lock, or the guarantee.
No matter how many times you break it down for the clueless ones, you still don't get it. The set lines are merely the sportsbooks' attempt to get as much money as possible on BOTH sides. Nobody, not even Vegas can predict the true outcome of a game. The lines are strictly a number in which bettors have a 50/50 chance of landing on either side, regardless of the number, and the talent of each team in the matchup. If you posted Florida as a 1 point favorite against Idaho St., you'd still have a 50% chance of hitting either side. Running a sportsbook, or any casino game is simply using statistics in your favor for profit.
If it was so easy to identify a "trap" situation, then you'd be throwing your bankroll on the other side of the so-called trap, and reaping the benefits at an overwhelming rate. In examining your thread, I still see no sides in which you clearly identify as the "correct" side to be on, nor do you use consistent reasoning as to why a game is a "trap." This is a tired and exhausted theory that clueless gamblers discuss when they think they have Vegas figured out.
You post great stuff, coach, I just wish you'd concentrate on contributing more game discussions rather than what side of a 50/50 gamble is the one to be weary of. No disrespect whatsoever, I just think there is way too much of this "trap" garbage on Covers, and it misleads people into thinking Vegas is playing mind games, or keeping secrets from them.
Like I said, focus more on the football discussion rather than how Vegas is trying to lure you to one side. If they want your money on a particular side, they'll adjust the line in order to do so.
GL fellas
With you all due respect I believe you are wrong about this. One of the considerations of linesmakers is public perception, and if they believe they can bait the public into taking a play they will. The sharps will of course see this and load up on the other side, evening out the money. Something the public is overwhelmingly on one side, and often times these picks lose. I see your point but Jim is definitely on to something here.
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Quote Originally Posted by jkochvar:
You must be an inexperienced gambler to believe "trap" games exist, coach. To say one side is a trap is to say the other side is the "smart" play, the lock, or the guarantee.
No matter how many times you break it down for the clueless ones, you still don't get it. The set lines are merely the sportsbooks' attempt to get as much money as possible on BOTH sides. Nobody, not even Vegas can predict the true outcome of a game. The lines are strictly a number in which bettors have a 50/50 chance of landing on either side, regardless of the number, and the talent of each team in the matchup. If you posted Florida as a 1 point favorite against Idaho St., you'd still have a 50% chance of hitting either side. Running a sportsbook, or any casino game is simply using statistics in your favor for profit.
If it was so easy to identify a "trap" situation, then you'd be throwing your bankroll on the other side of the so-called trap, and reaping the benefits at an overwhelming rate. In examining your thread, I still see no sides in which you clearly identify as the "correct" side to be on, nor do you use consistent reasoning as to why a game is a "trap." This is a tired and exhausted theory that clueless gamblers discuss when they think they have Vegas figured out.
You post great stuff, coach, I just wish you'd concentrate on contributing more game discussions rather than what side of a 50/50 gamble is the one to be weary of. No disrespect whatsoever, I just think there is way too much of this "trap" garbage on Covers, and it misleads people into thinking Vegas is playing mind games, or keeping secrets from them.
Like I said, focus more on the football discussion rather than how Vegas is trying to lure you to one side. If they want your money on a particular side, they'll adjust the line in order to do so.
GL fellas
With you all due respect I believe you are wrong about this. One of the considerations of linesmakers is public perception, and if they believe they can bait the public into taking a play they will. The sharps will of course see this and load up on the other side, evening out the money. Something the public is overwhelmingly on one side, and often times these picks lose. I see your point but Jim is definitely on to something here.
don't agree with advice to "sack up......don't be such a puss....+++" huh ?.......congrats on coming out dude.....or if indeed a chick...and somehow hot.......post some pics.....maybe myself and some of the boys here might wanna go family style on your ass....
It is better to be feared - than to be loved.
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Quote Originally Posted by Chamblin:
The words of a loser.
don't agree with advice to "sack up......don't be such a puss....+++" huh ?.......congrats on coming out dude.....or if indeed a chick...and somehow hot.......post some pics.....maybe myself and some of the boys here might wanna go family style on your ass....
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
i agree... but you are barking up the wrong tree around here... i've said this many times...
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Quote Originally Posted by bookieassassin:
Don't try to set yourself up as some sort of victim ("vegas is trying to trap me!")....like a chick would do.......be a man and just handicap the fuckin games....as they are all the same....only the weak / ignorant bastards can be taken advantage of....so study the matchups ....make an educated play.....live with it .....DON'T BE SUCH A box..... .
i agree... but you are barking up the wrong tree around here... i've said this many times...
The fumble with 20 seconds left in the first half changed the game. Had that not happened I think this would have been a comfortable cover...but like Hammering Hank says,
"that's why they call it gambling."
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The fumble with 20 seconds left in the first half changed the game. Had that not happened I think this would have been a comfortable cover...but like Hammering Hank says,
The fumble with 20 seconds left in the first half changed the game. Had that not happened I think this would have been a comfortable cover...but like Hammering Hank says,
"that's why they call it gambling."
You are absolutely right, Jim.
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Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Tressel:
The fumble with 20 seconds left in the first half changed the game. Had that not happened I think this would have been a comfortable cover...but like Hammering Hank says,
You must be an inexperienced gambler to believe "trap" games exist, coach. To say one side is a trap is to say the other side is the "smart" play, the lock, or the guarantee.
No matter how many times you break it down for the clueless ones, you still don't get it. The set lines are merely the sportsbooks' attempt to get as much money as possible on BOTH sides. Nobody, not even Vegas can predict the true outcome of a game. The lines are strictly a number in which bettors have a 50/50 chance of landing on either side, regardless of the number, and the talent of each team in the matchup. If you posted Florida as a 1 point favorite against Idaho St., you'd still have a 50% chance of hitting either side. Running a sportsbook, or any casino game is simply using statistics in your favor for profit.
If it was so easy to identify a "trap" situation, then you'd be throwing your bankroll on the other side of the so-called trap, and reaping the benefits at an overwhelming rate. In examining your thread, I still see no sides in which you clearly identify as the "correct" side to be on, nor do you use consistent reasoning as to why a game is a "trap." This is a tired and exhausted theory that clueless gamblers discuss when they think they have Vegas figured out.
You post great stuff, coach, I just wish you'd concentrate on contributing more game discussions rather than what side of a 50/50 gamble is the one to be weary of. No disrespect whatsoever, I just think there is way too much of this "trap" garbage on Covers, and it misleads people into thinking Vegas is playing mind games, or keeping secrets from them.
Like I said, focus more on the football discussion rather than how Vegas is trying to lure you to one side. If they want your money on a particular side, they'll adjust the line in order to do so.
GL fellas
you obviously have not betting long. if you're telling me vegas does not know who will cover and are not setting their lines accordingly then you, sir, are the inexperienced one.
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Quote Originally Posted by jkochvar:
You must be an inexperienced gambler to believe "trap" games exist, coach. To say one side is a trap is to say the other side is the "smart" play, the lock, or the guarantee.
No matter how many times you break it down for the clueless ones, you still don't get it. The set lines are merely the sportsbooks' attempt to get as much money as possible on BOTH sides. Nobody, not even Vegas can predict the true outcome of a game. The lines are strictly a number in which bettors have a 50/50 chance of landing on either side, regardless of the number, and the talent of each team in the matchup. If you posted Florida as a 1 point favorite against Idaho St., you'd still have a 50% chance of hitting either side. Running a sportsbook, or any casino game is simply using statistics in your favor for profit.
If it was so easy to identify a "trap" situation, then you'd be throwing your bankroll on the other side of the so-called trap, and reaping the benefits at an overwhelming rate. In examining your thread, I still see no sides in which you clearly identify as the "correct" side to be on, nor do you use consistent reasoning as to why a game is a "trap." This is a tired and exhausted theory that clueless gamblers discuss when they think they have Vegas figured out.
You post great stuff, coach, I just wish you'd concentrate on contributing more game discussions rather than what side of a 50/50 gamble is the one to be weary of. No disrespect whatsoever, I just think there is way too much of this "trap" garbage on Covers, and it misleads people into thinking Vegas is playing mind games, or keeping secrets from them.
Like I said, focus more on the football discussion rather than how Vegas is trying to lure you to one side. If they want your money on a particular side, they'll adjust the line in order to do so.
GL fellas
you obviously have not betting long. if you're telling me vegas does not know who will cover and are not setting their lines accordingly then you, sir, are the inexperienced one.
My 2 biggest plays were Kentucky and Navy went 1-1. lucky Navy won in OT and won by a point, had KY +16 and lost by 2
Won with Ohio st 171/2 won by 11/2 as the safety won it for me
Lost with TCU -28 they missed 3 extra points and had the ball on the SMU 5 with a minute to go
The point is I went 2-2 on these 4 games and to say the play at the end of the half changed the game is called GAMBLING
You win some and lose some
I play a lot of hold em and sometimes you get lucky on the river and the other day I went all in with a straight a guy called with 2 pair and caught a 4 outer on the river for a bad beat. I beat the guy 2 times after that and he went broke
The luck aspect evens out. I went 8-5 for the week in CFB but I can't cry over Kentocky or TCU.
If you can hit 58-59% your doing well You can't cry on a bad beat in poker or football
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There is always a play or 2 that changes a game
My 2 biggest plays were Kentucky and Navy went 1-1. lucky Navy won in OT and won by a point, had KY +16 and lost by 2
Won with Ohio st 171/2 won by 11/2 as the safety won it for me
Lost with TCU -28 they missed 3 extra points and had the ball on the SMU 5 with a minute to go
The point is I went 2-2 on these 4 games and to say the play at the end of the half changed the game is called GAMBLING
You win some and lose some
I play a lot of hold em and sometimes you get lucky on the river and the other day I went all in with a straight a guy called with 2 pair and caught a 4 outer on the river for a bad beat. I beat the guy 2 times after that and he went broke
The luck aspect evens out. I went 8-5 for the week in CFB but I can't cry over Kentocky or TCU.
If you can hit 58-59% your doing well You can't cry on a bad beat in poker or football
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