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We Cannot Defeat ISIS by Killing Them

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Posted: #101
Detox - Are you kidding me? When was the last time the U.S. burned people in cages or chopped off heads. To my credit, I try to keep an open mind to your insanity but certainly you can't be serious... You know as well as I do as soon as the U.S. ground forces show up these cowards will disappear...
 
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Posted: #102
my guess is the last time the US burned people was around  the last drone strike, whenever that was, it doesn't get publicized well, but you're probably right that the victims, whether terrorist, man, woman or child, were probably not in cages.  so that's good. 

we don't chop people's heads off, as far as i know.  that's also good although the people we kill in other ways are just as dead, as far as i understand. 
 
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Posted: #103
When is the last time ISIS flew an unmanned drone and killed innocent people attending a wedding? Your arguments are too one sided. If the case was evenly presented by both sides and all of the facts were discussed ... It's a good discussion. I can't stand listening to simple minded people like yourself jump on the propaganda train and argue the 2nd grade version of what's going on in the world. 
 
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Posted: #104
It lQQks like there may be a few Covers members in here,that are thinking about joining ISIS to fight against America.
 
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Posted: #105
No just looking to discuss the facts.. Not really the same thing. 
 
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Posted: #106
detox- so it's a fact that the US are the ones that specialize in killing people that can't defend themselves and not ISIS?   you sound like an apologist on ISIS' behalf.   
 
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Posted: #107
HighScore

He's part of the "Blame America First" crowd.

Jeane Kirkpatrick spoke of these types of Americans back in the 80's.

https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/san.diego/facts/GOP.speeches.past/84.kirkpatrick.shtml
 
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Posted: #108
Saw this on comments about the American-Bangladeshi that got killed with meat cleavers. Thought the guy had some good points:

As a deeply religious person, I have no fondness for blasphemy. My religion and its holy books are sacred to me. And I understand perfectly well why a Muslim would not relish a cartoon of a naked Mohammed.

But the debates over freedom of speech and the sensitivity of religious feelings also miss the point.

Blasphemy is the price we pay for not having a theocracy. Muslims are not only outraged but baffled by the Mohammed cartoons because they come from a world in which Islamic law dominates their countries and through its special place proclaims the superiority of Islam to all other religions.

Almost all Muslim countries are theocracies of one sort or another as a legacy of the Islamic conquests which Islamized them. 

Egyptian President Sisi’s gesture of attending a Coptic mass was so revolutionary because it challenged the idea that Egyptian identity must be exclusively Islamic.

And Egypt is far from the most hard line of Islamic countries in the Middle East, despite a brief takeover by the Muslim Brotherhood in the aftermath of Obama’s Arab Spring.

In a theocracy, not only is government Islamic from the top down, but society is also Islamic from the bottom up. 

Citizenship is linked to religion and even in countries such as Egypt, where non-Muslims may be citizens, there are fundamental restrictions in place that link Islamic identity to Egyptian citizenship. For example, Egyptian Muslims who attempt to convert to Christianity have found extremely difficult to have the government recognize their change of religion by issuing them new identification cards.

While we may think of blasphemy in terms of the Charlie Hebdocartoons, each religion is mutually blasphemous.
Muslims argue that the West should “respect prophets” by outlawing insults to Mohammed and a panoply of prophets gathered from Judaism and Christianity. But the Islamic view of Jesus is equally blasphemous to Christianity. And Islam considers Christianity’s view of Jesus to be blasphemous.

If we were to truly prosecute blasphemy, the legal system would have to pick a side between the two religions and eitherprosecute Christians for blaspheming against Islam or Muslims for blaspheming against Christianity. And indeed in Muslim countries, Christians are frequently accused of blasphemy.

Malaysia’s blasphemy laws were used to ban Christians fromemploying the word “Allah” for god and to seize children’s books depicting Noah and Moses. The reason for seizing the children’s books was the same as the reason for the attack on Charlie Hebdo; both were featuring cartoons of prophets.

While Charlie Hebdo pushed the outer limits of blasphemy, every religion that is not Islam, and even various alternative flavors of Islam, are also blasphemous.

It isn’t only secularist cartoonists who blaspheme against Islam. 

“Mohammed seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure,” St. Thomas Aquinas wrote. Maimonides called him a madman.

To Bill Donohue, there may be a world of difference between Charlie Hebdo and Aquinas, but not to a Muslim.

In a multi-religious society, in which every religion has its own variant theological streams, the right to blaspheme is also the right to believe. Liberal theology can contrive interchangeable beliefs which do not contradict or claim special knowledge over any other religion. But traditionalist faiths are exclusive.

Everyone’s religion is someone else’s blasphemy. If we forget that, we need only look to Saudi Arabia, where no other religion is allowed, as a reminder.

Muslims who question freedom of speech are not calling for a special status for all religions, but only for their religion. They don’t intend to censor their own Hadiths which claim that Jesus will return and break the cross or that the apocalypse will climax with Muslims exterminating the person. Their objections aren’t liberal, but exclusively theocratic. They want a blasphemy law that exclusively revolves around them.

Islam relates to other religions on its terms. It grants special treatment to Christianity and Judaism, despite nevertheless persecuting them, because of their relationship to Islam. It persecutes other religions even more severely because of their greater distance from Islam. Islamic theocracies are not respectful of religion, but respectful of Islam and disrespectful of all other religions.

Religious people need not embrace the extremes of French secularism or the anti-religious positions of the ACLU to see that some distance between religion and state is a good thing for both. A separation between religion and state should not mean compulsory secularism, but at the same time it avoids the religious tests for office which existed in colonial times in stateswith established churches that banned Catholics, Quakers and person, among others, from holding political office.

A neutral state allows us to believe what we please. Islamic efforts on blasphemy however warp us all around the theology of Islam.

When governments prosecute tearing the Koran or drawing offensive cartoons under hate crime laws, they are eroding the separation between state and mosque. Their efforts, even if well intention, lead inevitably to a theocracy which not only hurts critics of Islam, but destroys the religious freedom of all religions.

The legal distinction between secular blasphemy and interreligious disdain disappears in a theocracy. Each religion has beliefs that offend the other, actively or passively. When one belief becomes supreme, then religious freedom vanishes, as it has throughout the Muslim world where the practice of Christianity and Judaism are governed by how closely Muslims choose to be offended at other religions.

While some religious people may take issue with the celebration of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, equating them with such things as the infamous “Piss Christ”, there’s a fundamental difference between blasphemy against the innocent and the guilty.

Piss Christ or a museum which exhibited photos of naked women dressed in Jewish ritual garments are committed against the unresisting making them the theological equivalent of spiteful vandalism. There are no person or Christians murdering artists or bombing museums. By attempting to enforce the theocracy of blasphemy laws, Muslims made the Mohammed cartoons into a symbol of free speech.

It was not the 
Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, who specialized in offending all religions, who made their Mohammed cartoons into a symbol. It was their Muslim enemies who did it by killing them. It is intellectually dishonest for Muslims to create martyrs and then complain about their martyrdom.
 
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Posted: #109
Blasphemy against Christianity and Judaism fizzles because the lack of a violent response makes those responsible seem like bullies. Instead of revealing flaws in those religions, works like Piss Christ or Monster Mohel reveal the flaws in their makers.Their attempts at blasphemy prove self-destructive.
Muslim violence against the Mohammed cartoons however turns them into the bullies. The Hebdo cartoons did no damage to Christianity or Judaism. They did a great deal of damage to Islam, not because they were well done, but because Islam is shot through with violent anger and insecurity.

The spiritual power of religion balances between violence and non-violence. Most religions believe that there is a time to fight, but only Islam believes in violence as the first and final religious solution.

Mohammed cartoons exist because of the Islamic inability to cope with a non-theocratic society. Islamic 

Cartoonophobia is not only a danger to cartoonists. It’s a threat to all of our religious freedoms. Sultan Knish...
 
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Posted: #110

Not a lot of this going on by Americans either---and we didn't jump start it either:

https://news.yahoo.com/war-crimes---genocide--is-killing-religious-and-ethnic-minorities-systematically-in-iraq--study-says-170919683.html

Always, the more extreme Islam becomes the more violent it becomes.  Look at the percentage of Muslims in a country and it is proportional to the violence.  Then look at the countries that are close to 100%--they will turn on their own for not being extreme enough. 

 
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Posted: #111
Well that was dumb..
 
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Posted: #112
What part?  Using meat cleavers?
 
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Posted: #113
When was Bush using Drones?

Guantanamo Bay is much worse than anything radical Muslims could ever think of doing.  Just ask the left.
 
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Posted: #114
When the Shiite muslim clerics and the sunni muslem clerics can sit down and admit the other is devoted follower of islam and allowed their beliefs in Koran they we believe and allow you to believe. then a lasting peace can be achieved but lasting peace is not good for the sword makers so others outside this common thought must stir the pot so that peace will not be achieved...
 
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Posted: #115
ISIS represents true Islam.The most authentic expression of Islam.

Every Muslim is supposed to follow Allah’s verses exactly in order to be a good Muslim.

Real Muslims follow Allah’s rules exactly and obey the verses not some of them. Every word of Allah should be obeyed.

People that are /were real Muslims are Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,Osama Bin Laden and ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi... and ISIS kills fellow Muslims, because they don't practice true Islam..these are the co-called moderates the Obama administration talks about.
 
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Posted: #116
really?
 has killing ever achieved peace?
 no it just promotes more violence
 some cause has a new reason to be even more extreme.
 an era of war had begun nearly 3,000 years ago.
 the names have changed the reasons
 the ways and means . but it all comes down to
 is war makes war and warlocks win .
Weapon designs now have  evolved to weapons can a possibly will destroy all of man kind.
isis is just another instrument to making war happen. the tv images seem something new but gallic sects have been burning ppl in cages since rome was marching on now paris.
Midddle East has not achieved a lasting peace since ra's son isis reigned in Egypt. 5,000 years ago.... ww II didn't end world war three the formation of the un did. .... so  unless you want to see perpetual war tolerance in all reliogions must be excercised
 
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Posted: #117
Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

ISIS represents true Islam.The most authentic expression of Islam.

Every Muslim is supposed to follow Allah’s verses exactly in order to be a good Muslim.

Real Muslims follow Allah’s rules exactly and obey the verses not some of them. Every word of Allah should be obeyed.

People that are /were real Muslims are Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,Osama Bin Laden and ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi... and ISIS kills fellow Muslims, because they don't practice true Islam..these are the co-called moderates the Obama administration talks about.

That's all wrong but let's say you're right.. What's your point? 
 
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Posted: #118

^

that Obama thinks we can reason with these people... goodness you play the 'stupid' card way too much... your parents got robbed sending you to private school

 
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Posted: #119
please explain or answer your own ? in post 101
 
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Posted: #120

 

Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:


My left pinky is surely more learned than your (lack of) academia or experiences. Its sad really. Someday, you will look back at your wasted life and wonder why your version of knowledge was what you learned the night  before on Faux News rather than seeking knowledge for yourself. 

Could ISIS obtain a WMD? I suppose that's possible. But what is the solution? Wiping them off the face of the Earth? Can you get all of them? Who is them? And how do you do so? Boots on the ground? Will Americans stand for troops dying?

Which brings up the other issue you feebly tried to raise. As I said, this is no Nazi Germany because this is not the kind of group capable of invading a country. Instead, it is a dangerous terrorist group. But everyday, there are dangerous groups that commit actions everywhere. 

Have you seen what is happening in Nigeria? Do you want our involvement there as well? Or because it is 2000 dead blacks, is that of less importance to you. 


ummm... how about two countries? 

 

Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:

No kidding. This isn't like  Nazi Germany where all the soldiers wore uniforms and were centralized in their country and occupied countries. 

gee just because ISIS doesn't have matching uniforms means we shouldn't take them serious?  oh yeah, on that beach there were 20 guys in black uniforms but one guy in a tan set

 
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Quote Originally Posted by nature1970:

really?
 has killing ever achieved peace?
 no it just promotes more violence
 some cause has a new reason to be even more extreme.

After America dropped "Little Boy" on city of Hiroshima and "Fat Boy" three days later on Nagasaki  ..killing over a 100,000 Japanese the Empire of Japan surrendered  on September 2, 1945 and brought the hostilities of World War II to a close...

 
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Posted: #122

trying to put two and together

isis isn't after publicity but money every threat of execution is followed by a ransom demand that it wants is money.

okay for what purpose does it want money.

 If it is as it claims to be a sect of terrorists that believe in no other out come but to kill all infidels muslim or not then it needs war

 and a point to get across is everyone at war with each other.

 so what it needs is a- bomb a chemical weapon to deploy and blame they did

the assad gassed his own ppl ruse failed.

   twenty guys in military uniforms will never conquer the world unless it can get the world to conquer itself and pick up the pieces. ... but I guess that's the whole point it wants an exterminated world so then in some after life it can then rule.

1 the fact is no human will ever be perfect. not any set of rules will always be followed this is  human nature.

2 security industry is out of business with out any legit threats. security is needed as long as something is precious and needs to be protected I believe the universal truths of freedom are precious.

starting with us bill of rights. and un freedom of want statues sustainable developing growth principles.

3 now I  heard a lot of shady stuff. and if beheadings and cage burnings is the worst. then we live in a great place. cause the reality of it all is a lot worse happens every day in all countries.

 
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

After America dropped "Little Boy" on city of Hiroshima and "Fat Boy" three days later on Nagasaki  ..killing over a 100,000 Japanese the Empire of Japan surrendered  on September 2, 1945 and brought the hostilities of World War II to a close...

that stopped the war in the pacific but rebuilding japan Germany Europe china Russia creating the un to talk the un security concel stopped the real war us and Russia destroying this marble, you call earth
 
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Posted: #124

Just don't seem to appreciate the "intelligence community" slim these aren't a bunch guys who ever really meet the president it seems to be now here in the us a super computer collecting opinions from 4 billion sources and coming up with a summery of what did happen is happening and more importantly what will happen based on facts of what just happen . now the masters of this ia is not susan rice or generals or even the nsa director herself but a protocol program dealing with what the results given will be interpretated to what response a simple action reation where no action is a clause and the prime directive save human life on earth. that is about the main charater. the here in the us we have but five main actors. nsa director, cia director mia director out of the pentagon. and then subsequently their laisons in the cabinet ending with a temp whom won a popularity contest byraising the most money The President. now each of the offices represented here are represented by security council fab five Russia China France England . each with their own characters actors and egos with the possible eception of former kgb officer putin President of Russia. he is his own council or so it appears because if one of the sitting yes men say no well they are never heard of again.

Now if that great big run on sentence confuses you ill break it down Five countries can exterminate life on the this marble by mans will not just an unseen god anymore. yes this god of many names can and does create cataclismatic events to destroy life on this marble. next up for him is a super asteroid set for impact around 2026, right behind that eli maker 2035 if a super volcano around yellow stone, mogolia or Italy doesn't eruped first.

Then the galaxy eliminators a series of black holes and super novas near milky ways core has some level of concern but in reality we cannot even take a position that money is no object on astroids.

If all this seems a bit SCARY well it is without these after life clauses given by religion . but the reality here is one man has freewill. and that all life is going to be recycled for according to the leading physist dr. chu this is the fourth or fifth recycling of the galaxies ....   it exploseds condessises retracts and explodes again bringing with it the remenats of what it was. Sort of a reset button. now in religions of all sects drawing some reference to moses. which is an equal to the ancient religions expressed in Egypt. God waits for two conditions to directly intervene with humans here. one conflict everywhere. Flooded all earth the last time promising to burn it all next time. or All have basic needs met Babylon comes to mind. as well as Sodom and gomarah. now what ever wishes to create a moralistic culture to advanceAll humans so all have peace love and understanding Great I am all ears to this noise .... but a few thugs taking millions of dollars to by a bomb and say iran did it I will have no respect for.

 
 
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