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    All Forums | Politics

    USW: 730 union jobs saved in Carrier deal - not 1,100

    ilsp2003
    1129ken
    darkhorse12
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    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2016 - 10:55 PM ET #1

    https://www.wthr.com/article/usw-730-union-jobs-saved-in-carrier-deal-not-1100

    INDIANAPOLIS (WTHR) - The Carrier deal, brokered by President-elect Donald Trump, may not have saved as many factory jobs as was presented at the plant last week in Indianapolis.

    Carrier workers received a flyer from the United Steelworkers, Local Union 1999. It details which jobs are staying here in Indy and which are going to Mexico. The numbers are a bit different from last week's big announcement.

    Last Thursday, amid much fanfare, President-elect Trump spent time on the factory floor and talked with union workers at the westside Indianapolis Carrier plant.

    "We're keeping a little over 1,100 jobs it turns out," he told them.

    He also made a big announcement about a big deal reached with United Technologies, Carrier's parent company, to save 1,100 American jobs that were going to be moved to Mexico.

    Carrier worker T.J. Bray, who's also a communications rep for the union, told reporters across the country he was thrilled. His phone rang again while we talked with him Monday afternoon.

    "I've been getting non-stop phone calls. Non-stop media. It's been a wild, wild week," Bray said.

    But Bray and other union workers just learned some new numbers about the actual number of production jobs saved by the Trump-Pence deal.

    "We didn't know the breakdown before because no one would give us any information," Union President Chuck Jones told Eyewitness News by phone Monday. "Now what we're losing is 550 member jobs."


    "We found out today that more jobs are leaving than what we originally thought," Bray said. "It seemed like since Thursday, it was 1,100 then it was maybe 900 and then now we're at 700. So I'm hoping it doesn't go any lower than that."

    Union workers got a letter at the plant saying Trump's deal with Carrier will save only 730 factory jobs in Indianapolis, plus 70 salaried positions - 553 jobs in the plant's fan coil lines are still moving to Monterrey, Mexico.

    All 700 workers at Carrier's Huntington plant will also lose their jobs.

    "We are happy that Carrier Corp. has decided to retain a portion of the manufacturing jobs that it planned to move from Indianapolis to Mexico beginning in 2017," United Steelworkers, Local Union 1999 said in a letter to members. Union leaders thanked both President-elect Donald Trump and Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., for bringing so much attention to their efforts during and after the 2016 campaign.

    So how did the president-elect get to that 1,100 number last week?

    "It's the R&D jobs that were already slated to stay," Bray explained.

    Trump was including 350 research and development jobs that were never going to move to Mexico in the first place. Those were jobs that Carrier said all along would stay in Indianapolis.

    "It appears they may have hyped that number (1,100) a little bit and then once the company and everything settled down we started seeing the real numbers and started getting a little discouraged about how many jobs," Bray said.

    As a 14-year employee, Bray knows his job is safe. Seniority will decide who's in and who's out.

    Workers in danger of losing their jobs to Mexico were hired after February 2005. The union hopes retirements at the plant may help lessen the hit and reduce the number of layoffs.

    "We had the seniority list going around today," Bray said. "Everybody wants to know, you know, where they're at - do they meet that cut or not."

    Bray says he's still thrilled that many jobs are staying in Indy. But he says last week, it seemed like a lot more co-workers and friends would be safe.

    "That's the hardest part about it is we're happy the jobs are saved, but at the same time, we're discouraged and upset we can't save all of them," Bray said.

    Eyewitness News reached out to Vice President-elect Gov. Mike Pence's team asking specifically for clarification about the number of factory jobs saved in this deal.

    In response, Pence spokesperson Matthew Lloyd said, "More than 1,000 jobs for hard working Hoosiers were going to leave Indiana for Mexico. Those jobs are now staying right here in Indiana thanks to the efforts of President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Pence."

    USW Local 1999 had a brief meeting with Carrier on Thursday to discuss severance packages for those who will still be affected by Carrier's outsourcing. Those discussions will continue over the next few weeks.

    The union was not involved in any discussions with President-elect Trump.
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    https://www.wthr.com/article/usw-730-union-jobs-saved-in-carrier-deal-not-1100

    INDIANAPOLIS (WTHR) - The Carrier deal, brokered by President-elect Donald Trump, may not have saved as many factory jobs as was presented at the plant last week in Indianapolis.

    Carrier workers received a flyer from the United Steelworkers, Local Union 1999. It details which jobs are staying here in Indy and which are going to Mexico. The numbers are a bit different from last week's big announcement.

    Last Thursday, amid much fanfare, President-elect Trump spent time on the factory floor and talked with union workers at the westside Indianapolis Carrier plant.

    "We're keeping a little over 1,100 jobs it turns out," he told them.

    He also made a big announcement about a big deal reached with United Technologies, Carrier's parent company, to save 1,100 American jobs that were going to be moved to Mexico.

    Carrier worker T.J. Bray, who's also a communications rep for the union, told reporters across the country he was thrilled. His phone rang again while we talked with him Monday afternoon.

    "I've been getting non-stop phone calls. Non-stop media. It's been a wild, wild week," Bray said.

    But Bray and other union workers just learned some new numbers about the actual number of production jobs saved by the Trump-Pence deal.

    "We didn't know the breakdown before because no one would give us any information," Union President Chuck Jones told Eyewitness News by phone Monday. "Now what we're losing is 550 member jobs."


    "We found out today that more jobs are leaving than what we originally thought," Bray said. "It seemed like since Thursday, it was 1,100 then it was maybe 900 and then now we're at 700. So I'm hoping it doesn't go any lower than that."

    Union workers got a letter at the plant saying Trump's deal with Carrier will save only 730 factory jobs in Indianapolis, plus 70 salaried positions - 553 jobs in the plant's fan coil lines are still moving to Monterrey, Mexico.

    All 700 workers at Carrier's Huntington plant will also lose their jobs.

    "We are happy that Carrier Corp. has decided to retain a portion of the manufacturing jobs that it planned to move from Indianapolis to Mexico beginning in 2017," United Steelworkers, Local Union 1999 said in a letter to members. Union leaders thanked both President-elect Donald Trump and Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., for bringing so much attention to their efforts during and after the 2016 campaign.

    So how did the president-elect get to that 1,100 number last week?

    "It's the R&D jobs that were already slated to stay," Bray explained.

    Trump was including 350 research and development jobs that were never going to move to Mexico in the first place. Those were jobs that Carrier said all along would stay in Indianapolis.

    "It appears they may have hyped that number (1,100) a little bit and then once the company and everything settled down we started seeing the real numbers and started getting a little discouraged about how many jobs," Bray said.

    As a 14-year employee, Bray knows his job is safe. Seniority will decide who's in and who's out.

    Workers in danger of losing their jobs to Mexico were hired after February 2005. The union hopes retirements at the plant may help lessen the hit and reduce the number of layoffs.

    "We had the seniority list going around today," Bray said. "Everybody wants to know, you know, where they're at - do they meet that cut or not."

    Bray says he's still thrilled that many jobs are staying in Indy. But he says last week, it seemed like a lot more co-workers and friends would be safe.

    "That's the hardest part about it is we're happy the jobs are saved, but at the same time, we're discouraged and upset we can't save all of them," Bray said.

    Eyewitness News reached out to Vice President-elect Gov. Mike Pence's team asking specifically for clarification about the number of factory jobs saved in this deal.

    In response, Pence spokesperson Matthew Lloyd said, "More than 1,000 jobs for hard working Hoosiers were going to leave Indiana for Mexico. Those jobs are now staying right here in Indiana thanks to the efforts of President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Pence."

    USW Local 1999 had a brief meeting with Carrier on Thursday to discuss severance packages for those who will still be affected by Carrier's outsourcing. Those discussions will continue over the next few weeks.

    The union was not involved in any discussions with President-elect Trump.
     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2016 - 11:01 PM ET #2

    Jones, president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents Carrier employees, felt optimistic when Trump announced last week that he’d reached a deal with the factory’s parent company, United Technologies, to preserve 1,100 of the Indianapolis jobs — until the union leader heard from Carrier that only 730 of the production jobs would stay and 550 of his members would lose their livelihoods, after all.


    At the Dec. 1 meeting, where Trump was supposed to lay out the details, Jones hoped he would explain himself.


    “But he got up there,” Jones said Tuesday, “and, for whatever reason, lied his a-- off.”


    In front of a crowd of about 150 supervisors, production workers and reporters, Trump praised Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies. “Now they’re keeping — actually the number’s over 1,100 people,” he said, “which is so great.”

    Of the nearly 1,400 workers at the Indianapolis plant, however, 350 in research and development were never scheduled to leave, Jones said. Another 80 jobs, which Trump seemed to include in his figure, were non-union clerical and supervisory positions. (A Carrier spokesperson confirmed the numbers.) And now the president-elect was applauding the company and giving it millions of dollars in tax breaks, even as hundreds of Indianapolis workers prepared to be laid off.


    “Trump and Pence, they pulled a dog and pony show on the numbers,” said Jones, who voted for Hillary Clinton but called her “the better of two evils.” “I almost threw up in my mouth.”


    Spokespeople for Trump did not respond to requests for comment.


    In exchange for downsizing its move south of the border, United Technologies would receive $7 million in tax credits from Indiana, to be paid in $700,000 installments each year for a decade. Carrier, meanwhile, agreed to invest $16 million in its Indiana operation. United Technologies still plans to send 700 factory jobs from Huntington, Indiana, to Monterrey, Mexico.



    Reply

    Jones, president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents Carrier employees, felt optimistic when Trump announced last week that he’d reached a deal with the factory’s parent company, United Technologies, to preserve 1,100 of the Indianapolis jobs — until the union leader heard from Carrier that only 730 of the production jobs would stay and 550 of his members would lose their livelihoods, after all.


    At the Dec. 1 meeting, where Trump was supposed to lay out the details, Jones hoped he would explain himself.


    “But he got up there,” Jones said Tuesday, “and, for whatever reason, lied his a-- off.”


    In front of a crowd of about 150 supervisors, production workers and reporters, Trump praised Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies. “Now they’re keeping — actually the number’s over 1,100 people,” he said, “which is so great.”

    Of the nearly 1,400 workers at the Indianapolis plant, however, 350 in research and development were never scheduled to leave, Jones said. Another 80 jobs, which Trump seemed to include in his figure, were non-union clerical and supervisory positions. (A Carrier spokesperson confirmed the numbers.) And now the president-elect was applauding the company and giving it millions of dollars in tax breaks, even as hundreds of Indianapolis workers prepared to be laid off.


    “Trump and Pence, they pulled a dog and pony show on the numbers,” said Jones, who voted for Hillary Clinton but called her “the better of two evils.” “I almost threw up in my mouth.”


    Spokespeople for Trump did not respond to requests for comment.


    In exchange for downsizing its move south of the border, United Technologies would receive $7 million in tax credits from Indiana, to be paid in $700,000 installments each year for a decade. Carrier, meanwhile, agreed to invest $16 million in its Indiana operation. United Technologies still plans to send 700 factory jobs from Huntington, Indiana, to Monterrey, Mexico.



     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2016 - 11:02 PM ET #3


    T.J. Bray, 32, one of the workers who will keep his job, sat in the front row during the Dec. 1 meeting as Trump spoke. A corporate employee had guided him specifically to that seat, he said, so he suspected he might be part of Trump’s remarks.

    On Carrier’s makeshift stage, Trump paraphrased the words of an unnamed Carrier employee who talked to an NBC reporter after the election. Bray was the only Carrier employee who had appeared on television that day. Apparently, he realized, Trump was saying he inspired the deal.

    “He said something to the effect, ‘No, we’re not leaving, because Donald Trump promised us that we’re not leaving,’ and I never thought I made that promise,” Trump said. “Not with Carrier. I made it for everybody else. I didn’t make it really for Carrier.”



    Reply

    T.J. Bray, 32, one of the workers who will keep his job, sat in the front row during the Dec. 1 meeting as Trump spoke. A corporate employee had guided him specifically to that seat, he said, so he suspected he might be part of Trump’s remarks.

    On Carrier’s makeshift stage, Trump paraphrased the words of an unnamed Carrier employee who talked to an NBC reporter after the election. Bray was the only Carrier employee who had appeared on television that day. Apparently, he realized, Trump was saying he inspired the deal.

    “He said something to the effect, ‘No, we’re not leaving, because Donald Trump promised us that we’re not leaving,’ and I never thought I made that promise,” Trump said. “Not with Carrier. I made it for everybody else. I didn’t make it really for Carrier.”



     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2016 - 11:14 PM ET #4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6v0yd9eRE
    Reply
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6v0yd9eRE
     
    ilsp2003
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2016 - 11:26 PM ET #5

    hmm good question

    what's good about Mexico ?

    @10:17
    very talented workforce ?
    Reply
    hmm good question

    what's good about Mexico ?

    @10:17
    very talented workforce ?
     
    1129ken
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 12:13 AM ET #6

    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !
    Reply
    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !
     
    darkhorse12
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 12:22 AM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !

    And lied about it. Imagine that.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !

    And lied about it. Imagine that.
     
    1129ken
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 9:53 AM ET #8

    Good lord, a politician who exaggerates . Someone call the New York Times !
    Reply
    Good lord, a politician who exaggerates . Someone call the New York Times !
     
    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 4:03 PM ET #9

    Trump did nothing but take credit for something he was not responsible for and exaggerate. For being an outsider, he sure has a knack for being a schmuck like most seasoned politicians.

    Oh and in the end he will have saved ZERO jobs, Carrier will not solve its demand and cost issues with some government freebies..if sales trends are not reversed they will end up reversing all this and worse.

    I do not applaud a union rep, I think unions in their current form are not really adding any value for the employee and often times harm the employment situation with their added costs and interference.
    Reply
    Trump did nothing but take credit for something he was not responsible for and exaggerate. For being an outsider, he sure has a knack for being a schmuck like most seasoned politicians.

    Oh and in the end he will have saved ZERO jobs, Carrier will not solve its demand and cost issues with some government freebies..if sales trends are not reversed they will end up reversing all this and worse.

    I do not applaud a union rep, I think unions in their current form are not really adding any value for the employee and often times harm the employment situation with their added costs and interference.
     
    TILTOLOGIC
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 4:04 PM ET #10

    GENIUSES!  ALL OF YOU! 


    Reply
    GENIUSES!  ALL OF YOU! 


     
    BWS77
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 6:51 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    Good lord, a politician who exaggerates . Someone call the New York Times !


    He's not a politician, remember?   Memberrrrrrrrr????
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    Good lord, a politician who exaggerates . Someone call the New York Times !


    He's not a politician, remember?   Memberrrrrrrrr????
     
    bettingforfun
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    Joined: Oct, 2014
    Posts: 2042
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 7:36 PM ET #12

    Nice post Zelo.
    Reply
    Nice post Zelo.
     
    bettingforfun
    bettingforfun
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    Joined: Oct, 2014
    Posts: 2042
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 7:38 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by QMICH:


    HERE YOU GO K-K-K-KEN

    ex·ag·ger·ate
    [ig'zaj??rat]

    VERB

    represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is:
    "they were apt to exaggerate any aches and pains" ·
    [more]
    "I couldn't sleep for three weeks after Trump was elected—I'm not exaggerating"
    synonyms: overstate · overemphasize · overestimate · magnify ·

    li·ar
    ['li(?)r]

    NOUN

    1. a person who tells lies. HILLARY CLINTON
      synonyms: deceiver · fibber · perjurer · false witness · fabricator ·
      [more]
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by QMICH:


    HERE YOU GO K-K-K-KEN

    ex·ag·ger·ate
    [ig'zaj??rat]

    VERB

    represent (something) as being larger, greater, better, or worse than it really is:
    "they were apt to exaggerate any aches and pains" ·
    [more]
    "I couldn't sleep for three weeks after Trump was elected—I'm not exaggerating"
    synonyms: overstate · overemphasize · overestimate · magnify ·

    li·ar
    ['li(?)r]

    NOUN

    1. a person who tells lies. HILLARY CLINTON
      synonyms: deceiver · fibber · perjurer · false witness · fabricator ·
      [more]
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
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    Joined: Mar, 2004
    Posts: 4590
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2016 - 11:03 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !


    Your 2 cents are as worthless as your personal attack

    what makes us awful ?

    Let me tell you what makes you awful and I dare you to disagree with me

    You wished current politicians would go faster than 80's rockers
    in response to the other "classy" covers poster chilitokid

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=35&sub=102268589

     posts # 23 and 24  

    valid and well-reasoned opinions about Trump's  work and policies will be offered in a friendly manner. It's called constructive criticism 


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:

    I'll be happy to add my two cents to make this thread consist of two people replying by saying--- oh my--he  saved only 700 American jobs ? How awful !


    Your 2 cents are as worthless as your personal attack

    what makes us awful ?

    Let me tell you what makes you awful and I dare you to disagree with me

    You wished current politicians would go faster than 80's rockers
    in response to the other "classy" covers poster chilitokid

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=35&sub=102268589

     posts # 23 and 24  

    valid and well-reasoned opinions about Trump's  work and policies will be offered in a friendly manner. It's called constructive criticism 


     
    1129ken
    1129ken
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    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 2674
    Posted: Dec. 9, 2016 - 1:31 AM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:



    He's not a politician, remember?   Memberrrrrrrrr????


    He appears to be learning.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:



    He's not a politician, remember?   Memberrrrrrrrr????


    He appears to be learning.
     
    1129ken
    1129ken
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    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 2674
    Posted: Dec. 9, 2016 - 1:40 AM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    Your 2 cents are as worthless as your personal attack

    what makes us awful ?

    Let me tell you what makes you awful and I dare you to disagree with me

    You wished current politicians would go faster than 80's rockers
    in response to the other "classy" covers poster chilitokid

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=35&sub=102268589

     posts # 23 and 24  

    valid and well-reasoned opinions about Trump's  work and policies will be offered in a friendly manner. It's called constructive criticism 




    How do you define personal attack ? Your post seems quite defensive, and, after further review, downright nasty. Perhaps you need to read mine again. It really isn't that bad. Is it ? If you think it is, you're wrong, but frankly, I don't care what you think.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:


    Your 2 cents are as worthless as your personal attack

    what makes us awful ?

    Let me tell you what makes you awful and I dare you to disagree with me

    You wished current politicians would go faster than 80's rockers
    in response to the other "classy" covers poster chilitokid

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=35&sub=102268589

     posts # 23 and 24  

    valid and well-reasoned opinions about Trump's  work and policies will be offered in a friendly manner. It's called constructive criticism 




    How do you define personal attack ? Your post seems quite defensive, and, after further review, downright nasty. Perhaps you need to read mine again. It really isn't that bad. Is it ? If you think it is, you're wrong, but frankly, I don't care what you think.
     
    ilsp2003
    ilsp2003
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2004
    Posts: 4590
    Posted: Dec. 9, 2016 - 7:19 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:



    How do you define personal attack ? Your post seems quite defensive, and, after further review, downright nasty. Perhaps you need to read mine again. It really isn't that bad. Is it ? If you think it is, you're wrong, but frankly, I don't care what you think.


    what's awful about this thread  ?

    I did not wish anyone died  in this thread 

    You wish politicians died faster than 80's rockers
    Very classy 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:



    How do you define personal attack ? Your post seems quite defensive, and, after further review, downright nasty. Perhaps you need to read mine again. It really isn't that bad. Is it ? If you think it is, you're wrong, but frankly, I don't care what you think.


    what's awful about this thread  ?

    I did not wish anyone died  in this thread 

    You wish politicians died faster than 80's rockers
    Very classy 
     
    mainman11111
    mainman11111
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2016
    Posts: 1083
    Posted: Dec. 11, 2016 - 3:41 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by QMICH:


    UNIONS HAVE TOTALLY DESTROYED AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE BY KEEPING UNWANTED & UNQUALIFIED EMPLOYEES EMPLOYED. 

    BUT YOU CAN'T BULLSHIT A BULLSHITTER, SO A NAMELESS UNION REP CALLING OUT TWEETY AS A BLATANT LIAR IS CERTAINLY POETIC JUSTICE.


    interesting view
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by QMICH:


    UNIONS HAVE TOTALLY DESTROYED AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE BY KEEPING UNWANTED & UNQUALIFIED EMPLOYEES EMPLOYED. 

    BUT YOU CAN'T BULLSHIT A BULLSHITTER, SO A NAMELESS UNION REP CALLING OUT TWEETY AS A BLATANT LIAR IS CERTAINLY POETIC JUSTICE.


    interesting view
     
     
    nature1970
    nature1970
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2015
    Posts: 21593
    Posted: Dec. 11, 2016 - 4:08 PM ET #19

    So carrier isn't going to mexico. .... can ford build a 8 billion dollar facility in michigan. That will squelch the bs meter..
    Reply
    So carrier isn't going to mexico. .... can ford build a 8 billion dollar facility in michigan. That will squelch the bs meter..
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