Open & Shut Trayvon Martin Gets Cluttered With Facts

not to the emotional, ignorant, media brainwashed sheep

 

"It absolutely does matter that Z was knocked to the ground. Since that is a KNOWN and corroborated fact it will be considered to be the start of the PHYSICAL confrontation."

FACT? Where in the hell did you hear that? Was there a witness that said they saw Martin punch Zimmerman first and Martin took Zimmerman to the ground? WOW!

Damn, this is insane. All the FBI has to do is use the racial slur, use the fact he admitted to following Martin, use the fact that Zimmerman said they always get away, prove a history of violence, and a history of taking the law into his own hands.

Listen sheep,

There was never any evidence at all to go to war with Iraq, period.
The war in Iraq was about money, oil and for revenge for saddam threatening daddy.
Billions is government contracts and to set up a base for a war with Iran.
The US has base in Iraq, Afghanistan, and guess which country is between them? Iran!
It’s about money, oil, lithium, minerals, drugs and a platform for war with Iran.
War is a multi-billion dollar business.

I don’t care that Zimmerman was a democrat. Ted Bundy was a republican.
The reason white republicans are defending Zimmerman is about evidence?
If this is all about evidence, then the war in Iraq is about WMD’s.
This is about a black kid being killed and if it was a white kid killed there would be tons of threads and posts saying the black vigilante deserves to be shot.
A black kid killed NO outrage from republicans but a white kid killed… every republican saying let me have a minute alone with him so I can teach him a lesson.
It’s not democrats defending Zimmerman and creating dozens of threads defending Zimmerman.
Republicans think Zimmerman was an American hero.

Right now, the FBI is looking into the distance between where Zimmerman’s Car was and the actual shooting and how Martin’s body was found and at the idea that Zimmerman was attempting to hold Martin and attempted to restrain him or hold him at gunpoint until police arrived.

Look money,

You will never get it and you will always have to rely and a dumb ass retired mall cop for help.

The FBI without proof or a confession cannot so much as put a dunce cap on Zimmerman. Even if his fucking car was 3 blocks away he had no obligation not to follow Trayvon. Even if your dumb piss ant dispatcher asked him nicely not to follow.

There is another concept that all of you Z haters fail to take into consideration.

A detective or group of detectives or state attorneys have to look at the whole picture or episode.

If statements by a person of interest are found to be plausible and corroborated by witnesses. That leads investigators to be more apt to believe other statements that the person of interest may say that may be plausible but perhaps not corroborated by a witness or other means.

Like the fact that the 13 year old boy heard cries for help and could sense that the cries came from the person on the bottom but couldn't tell the race of either or color of clothes or anything.

Based on the statement from the 13 year old they could gage that Zimmermans account of what happened more than likely accurate. Especially, since there is no evidence or statemet to dispute that claim.

 

FBI, state, and local agencies are often pooled in a common effort to investigate and solve cases. It takes time to make a case. The FBI just got involved. I will be surprised if he is not arrested in the next few days or the next few weeks because of the protests going on.

Next step “Breaking News” George Zimmerman has been arrested.

Then a plea deal or a trial.

My gut says trail and it will be talked about on every channel 24/7.

Yeah, he will be arrested.  More interesting will be exactly how they charge him.

Adding more shovels doesn't guarantee you will find more gold.

Too many cooks spoil the soup!

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

Just because there are thousands of people that don't understand legal procedures doesn't mean that throwing more money at it will miraculously show  something that nobody could find before.

Just a big dog and pony show if you ask me.

Typical liberal mentality.

Just like education. If the system isnt working just throw unlimited amounts of money at it.

But has to go to an undisclosed location...

This isn't quite right. Before a charge is made, the incident should be investigated without a presumption of innocence or guilt. Once it's determined there is enough evidence (circumstantial or not) to charge someone with a crime, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty - there is a difference.

If & when Z is charged (probably will be), it would most likely be with 2nd or 3rd degree manslaughter and if it goes to trial, it would be on his defense team to show that it was justifiable self defense under Fla law just as it would be neccessary for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his actions did not constitute self defense under the law in regards to the use of deadly force. The stand your ground law still requires that the level of force used by Martin rose to the level that justified deadly force & it's a little nebulous & tricky, but I don't think the medical records will show that it did. And my guess is there will be alot of very damaging stuff to come out vs Z & his credibility, but will still be difficult for prosecutors due to there being noone to dispute Z's account. I lean to him being charged & if he doesn't take a plea, being convicted of something that puts him behind bars for at least a certain amount of years. 

 

Lord, don't even want to think about it, lol. Wonder how many of these righties would be up in arms defending Z if he was black & arrested (& he would have been) & Martin been had been a 17 yr old white kid, under the same circumstances? Would we see an uproar from them that he was even arrested & charged?

We have taken this topic far enough. We agree to disagree.

There will be an arrest really soon and this will be an argument in court, instead of an Internet forum.

I believe he should be charged with Imperfect self-defense/ voluntary manslaughter.

FBI agents are masters of problem solving and have knowledge, resources, and skills that the local detectives may not have.

I believe the FBI and local detectives will come up with a strategy to make a case. All of this takes time. It takes problem solving skills not well nothing Zimmerman did at the beginning matters only the end. The defense is going to use the D and E method.

The FBI and detectives are going to use the A, B, C, D, and E method to put the pieces of the puzzle together and make Zimmerman an antagonistic racist psycho with a history of violence that disobeyed 911and should have not taken the law into his own hands. And shot Martin when he could have avoided the situation. Just because you are losing a fight does not mean you have the right to kill someone.

I believe he is guilty and so did detective Chris Serino.

It is up to the FBI and detectives to prove what the detective and me believe happened.

This is true .."Before a charge is made, the incident should be investigated without a presumption of innocence or guilt'. ..

Perhaps I wasn't clear ..I was referring to the point where [pre -special prosecutor ] there was an investigating ..  Where the police investigated and the DA had reviewed the evidence under Fl.law and determined, that there wasn't enough evidence to charge someone with a crime..So at this point in time.. one side is assuming a "presumption of guilt...without knowing all the evidence in the case..

Now lets look at the three things that need to be established to convince a jury of guilt in a criminal trial in a US Court of law...

Means, motive and opportunity.

Means – did the person have the ability and the tools to commit the crime? ...yes.

Opportunity – were circumstance such that the person would have had a chance to commit the crime? ...Yes..

Now the tricky one ..

Motive – Did the person have a reason to commit the crime?

Was/is there enough evidence to prove that Zimmerman had a reason/motive to kill Trayvon ?

If you say ...yes, because it was a hate crime [racially motivated] ..is there really enough proof to prove that in a court of law?.. [ I doubt it]..

Another motive..   Was he defending himself against an assault and shot in defense ?..The DA under Florida law who had all the evidence,, thought so...

...and there are other motives that could be presented but I think these are the two strongest ones..

So at this point in time George Zimmerman should be considered as innocent until proven guilty not presumed guilty until proven innocent..is what I was attempting to say ...

OK, I see but the problem there is he already committed the crime & admitted to it, be it murder or manslaughter. Using deadly force & killing Trayvon Martin. The only question is whether under Fla law, his account of the events add up to a justifiable case of self defense or not. The lead detective who conducted the actual investigation didn't believe it did, but the DA didn't want to charge him because from what I understand, he didn't think there was enough evidence to convict him under the generous FL self defense laws. That's a far cry from believing that Z actually did act legally & that it was a justifiable case of self defense.

As far as motive goes, while maybe not what would be considered "motive", the 911 call at least shows that he had some bias against "these guys" talking about Martin & that he already thought he was up to know good & following him. Combined with his history of violence & the girlfriends acct of their cell phone talk leading right up to the fight, it's pretty powerful & would play that way in court whether he said "fkn person" or not & it sounded to me like he did. About the only thing I can see he has going for him is the eyewitness who said they saw Martin on top beating him up. But that alone doesn't say anything about how it started. And the medical report could be helpful or harmful but still is not evidence of a justified murder based on self defense.

Personally, I don't buy Z's account at all & if it goes to trial, I don't think in the end the jury will either. He was playing cop, fucked up bad in his thinking about M & after provoking or scaring Martin (who was unarmed & doing nothing wrong) either verbally, physically or both (&/or flashin his gun), was gettin beat up & reached for his gun & shot/killed him. If that's justifiable self defense under FL laws, something's badly wrong. So yeah, there's a motive - to get him off him & to stop him from beatin him up anymore, lol. Guess I could have used that on Louie Sorbo back in 8th grade 

Voice analysts say the cries for help not from Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's defense falling apart.

Yeah, that's what I figured. By the time it all comes together, he'll probably be looking for a plea deal...

you really think the wackos will stop posting about it?

Owen told the newspaper that the software compared the screams to Zimmerman's voice and returned a 48 percent match. He said he would expect a match of higher than 90 percent, considering the quality of the audio.

48% ?   Sounds like a coin toss.........

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen told the Sentinel.

Reasonable scietific certainty,but still there is reasonable doubt...The defense attorney gets two experts to say it is Zimmerman .....Push

But he also said he could not confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice.

If he can't confirm it's Trayvon's voice and it's not Zimmermans ...maybe it's the voice of the kid who's dog broke loose and he was chasing him yelling "help..."help" .. 

‘He Looks Black’: NBC Launches Internal Investigation into Selective Editing of Zimmerman Police Tape

https://www.theblaze.com/stories/he-looks-black-nbc-launches-internal-investigation-into-selective-editing-of-zimmerman-police-tape/

by Fox News and Newsbusters, NBC played the conversation on the “Today Show” as: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”

The unabridged version is:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

 

WTH???

Its amazing to me the mentality of alot of people.

People don't understand why we have some failsafes in place to make sure that most people that appear before a jury actually deserve to be there.

We all know that jurys aren't 100% correct despite their good intentions. Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson are clear examples.

American Citizens should not have play the Nancy Pelosi game of 'lets put them before a jury to find out what happened'.

There should be reasonable amount of certainty to justify sending a person to court.

How many people in recent years have been wrongly convicted and been locked up for a decade or so because of our legal labrynth?

I would like to believe all of our cops and investigators are completely honest and have no axes to grind but I'm realistic, they are all human.

I would like to believe that all of our investigators, retired and active, actually follow the chain of evidence over the chain of speculation. Now, because of some now famous 25 year veteran pukes that associate with another famous puke that frequents this site, I have lost faith a little bit in all.

...And even more amazing is that he is proud of this method of following the chain of speculation?

Anyone that would agree with that method is no doubt, UN AMERICAN.

That's why he's the expert, not you.  48% sounds like a coin toss?  Pretty sure you don't understand what that number means.  That's like saying 48% of DNA matches up when you need 100%.  That ain't a coin toss.

Heard him on a show saying that it's Zimmerman with 99% certainty. Different expert using different technology saying the same thing.  I'm sure eventually they will analyze along with Martin's voice.  Sure you can argue reasonable doubt.  Won't be easy.

Zimmerman is cooked.

Depeche,

What about Trayvons father saying that is not his son's voice?

Does that matter to you at all?