How can my fellow democrats not see what is happening

Quote Originally Posted by be easy:



i'd be proud to fight beside you rooster,,,,,one of the good guys


as far as djbrow, he is degrading to bob status

i hope he's alright

and i agree, what makes covers politics an enjoyable forum,,,,is the participants, and the different viewpoints.  As much of a mush i think even the likes of Mikeal is, i still like hearing what he has to say,,,,,,

Oh, you are so bold. So happy to defend anyone who agrees with you. In the post you attcked me, you so boldly stuck up for Bob and his ilk, I was on the defensive all through the thread. Dude, spare me the righteous indignation (look it up). You act as if you are the only one who worked hard so that gives you the right to be the world's most pessimistic chicken little.

Oh and before you do the usual  when anyone challenges you, don't bother coming back to me with . if you stick your beak in other's battles, expect . If you don't want that, then

Quote Originally Posted by woopdurritis:

djbrow,  I know your type, we get invaded you are the first one to run to Canada.  If you don't like it hear, and you want socialism so bad... get the hell out of here... nothing is keeping you here   adios

It's here, by the way. Apparently, your degree in cleaning pharmarcies didn't teach you proper grammar.

Oh, and I am not the one complaining.....

I have addressed this ad neauseum. Do you suddenly not trust CNN? If not, we can end this discussion right now and you can go back to your buddies Bob, Wood, Be Easy, etc. If you do, you will know that the "death squads," "rationed care," and all those other rumors aren't true. Does the bill have huge problems. In the words of a certain 'Pub, 'you betcha.' But it reduces the costs of health insurance for people like you and I. The preventative care portion of the insurance is better than almost any plan out there (1 full physical per year and quarterly checkups including screenings with a $20 deductable). You keep talking about the insurance not being as good, but as I have also asked, where? Where are you and your family losing? Your costs will be less, than is a certainty. Yes, there is the elimination of tax free health care savings accounts. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that it is ideal that it makes sense to eliminate funding for insurance in current state programs that currently offer care for uninsured children. My worry there is that it reduces oversight and many providers will now be able to bill at insanely high levels for children's care. But under free market principles, most providers will have to reduce costs to match the money they will receive through the insurance programs. Free market principles

I am happy to continue to discuss this rationally.

Of course it does. The highest pro rata costs of health are for emergency/serious illness care. The AMA estimates that 75% of emergencies/serious illnesses could be prevented or lessened by simple preventitive care (screenings, shots, physicals, medicines, etc). It is also this kind of care and costs that go unpaid. Reducing these reduces the overall costs of medical care, thus reducing insurance costs.

The alternate (current situation) is that we continue with the current system, with higher than cost of living increases in health insurance, more and more people losing it as a result, leading to higher costs for everyone who can actually afford it.

You already do. You pay when the husband/father, after failing to be treated for high blood pressure because he hasn't been to the doctor in 5 years because of no insurance, suffers a heart attack, runs up a 50k medical bill that is never paid, which leads to his family going on welfare. You pay in higher health insurance costs and higher taxes.

Health care is not a right, it is a reality. Are you suggesting that a dying man be denied the right to a hospital because he lacks insurance? if your answer is yes, fine, that is your view. If your answer is no, then you are going to continue paying for that man.

Again, your health care costs will continue to go up as the costs for uninsured and uncollectible medical expenses increase. The only way your costs are reduced is if those costs are reduced.

But your first "solution" doesn't change what is driving the high costs of insurance...the medical costs for non-insured and uncollectable care.

The second part is pretty solid. I said that in a thread earlier this week. There should be a way to take universal coverage and individually eliminate certain things, but you would have to be careful. For instance, I was just thinking, I don't need physical therapy coverage, but if I blow out my knee playing softball or a drunk hits me, I might need it, hence having it in a policy.

Maybe you need to read the many websites of the people who actually read the bill and broke it down piece by piece.  If your getting all your info from cnn, then i see your problem already.

Maybe you should go read the part in the bill where the politicians and their staff are excluded from having to take the govt plan. Why is that if the plan is so great, like you keep saying it is?

I havent found one person who has medical insurance right now, who wants to have the govt plan instead.  Only people that want this govt plan is all the people who dont have coverage and want yet another thing free.  The govt needs to figure out some other way of covering all those people, instead of destroying the whole health system we have right now.

You ask how is my family affected, well once this govt public option crap is put in place, employers will pay the fee to the govt and drop all its employee coverage in order to save money.  So i am going to go from a great plan which i worked hard all my life to get, to some crappy govt plan.  Why is this fair to me and my family?  All i keep hearing about is the rights of the people who dont have insurance, well what about me and my families rights?  Why do i have to have a lousy plan in order to help others get insurance.  Sorry but that is not fuckin right.   Like i have always said i dont mind helping anybody, i spent my working career doing it, but dont penalize me and my family for it.

Also do some research on this bill and you will find out that the politicians didnt just write this 1300 page bill in a couple weeks time.  It was written long ago by a bunch of very very very left radical groups, who are hell bent on changing this country.  Sorry but this isnt the democratic party i want.

Face it dj, you want this bill because it will help you and your family, and thats the bottomline.

You didn't answer any of my points regarding insurance. I have said them 8000 times. Insurance costs will continue to increase at a higher than pro rata share to the cost of living. This leads to more and more people uninsured which leads to more unpaid medical costs, which leads to higher costs for those that are insured and around and around we go. Doing nothing is not the answer.

There is absolutely no evidence that the actual plans will be worsened. In fact, as I have said, it calls for better preventative care than most top line policies.

And how will the plan effect me? Won't change my coverage one bit, although it will probably give me more preventative care than I need. I presume, in time, with greater preventative care, we will see less cases of medically induced welfare claims, but I doubt that number would lead to my taxes being reduced as my tax bracket is probably too high.