• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
    • NFL Week 1
      NFL Week 1
      • NFL Picks
      • NFL Odds
      • Anytime TD Picks
      • Anytime Touchdown Grades
      • NFL ATS Picks
      • NFL Moneyline Picks
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | Politics

    A president in His own words

    1234 Next Last»
    rick3117
    dl36
    canovsp
    wallstreetcappers
    TILTOLOGIC
    ...
    Participants:
    Search model icon
    Views: 2443
    Posts: 94
    1234 Next Last»
     
    rick3117
    rick3117
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 14715
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:08 PM ET #1

    https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

     

    1. Does the president have inherent powers under the Constitution to conduct surveillance for national security purposes without judicial warrants, regardless of federal statutes?

    The Supreme Court has never held that the president has such powers. As president, I will follow existing law, and when it comes to U.S. citizens and residents, I will only authorize surveillance for national security purposes consistent with FISA and other federal statutes.

    2. In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites -- a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)

    The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

    As for the specific question about bombing suspected nuclear sites, I recently introduced S.J. Res. 23, which states in part that “any offensive military action taken by the United States against Iran must be explicitly authorized by Congress.” The recent NIE tells us that Iran in 2003 halted its effort to design a nuclear weapon. While this does not mean that Iran is no longer a threat to the United States or its allies, it does give us time to conduct aggressive and principled personal diplomacy aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

    3. Does the Constitution empower the president to disregard a congressional statute limiting the deployment of troops -- either by capping the number of troops that may be deployed to a particular country or by setting minimum home-stays between deployments? In other words, is that level of deployment management beyond the constitutional power of Congress to regulate?

    No, the President does not have that power. To date, several Congresses have imposed limitations on the number of US troops deployed in a given situation. As President, I will not assert a constitutional authority to deploy troops in a manner contrary to an express limit imposed by Congress and adopted into law.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

     

    1. Does the president have inherent powers under the Constitution to conduct surveillance for national security purposes without judicial warrants, regardless of federal statutes?

    The Supreme Court has never held that the president has such powers. As president, I will follow existing law, and when it comes to U.S. citizens and residents, I will only authorize surveillance for national security purposes consistent with FISA and other federal statutes.

    2. In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites -- a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)

    The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.

    As for the specific question about bombing suspected nuclear sites, I recently introduced S.J. Res. 23, which states in part that “any offensive military action taken by the United States against Iran must be explicitly authorized by Congress.” The recent NIE tells us that Iran in 2003 halted its effort to design a nuclear weapon. While this does not mean that Iran is no longer a threat to the United States or its allies, it does give us time to conduct aggressive and principled personal diplomacy aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

    3. Does the Constitution empower the president to disregard a congressional statute limiting the deployment of troops -- either by capping the number of troops that may be deployed to a particular country or by setting minimum home-stays between deployments? In other words, is that level of deployment management beyond the constitutional power of Congress to regulate?

    No, the President does not have that power. To date, several Congresses have imposed limitations on the number of US troops deployed in a given situation. As President, I will not assert a constitutional authority to deploy troops in a manner contrary to an express limit imposed by Congress and adopted into law.

     
    rick3117
    rick3117
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 14715
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:09 PM ET #2

    4. Under what circumstances, if any, would you sign a bill into law but also issue a signing statement reserving a constitutional right to bypass the law?

    Signing statements have been used by presidents of both parties, dating back to Andrew Jackson. While it is legitimate for a president to issue a signing statement to clarify his understanding of ambiguous provisions of statutes and to explain his view of how he intends to faithfully execute the law, it is a clear abuse of power to use such statements as a license to evade laws that the president does not like or as an end-run around provisions designed to foster accountability.

    I will not use signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law. The problem with this administration is that it has attached signing statements to legislation in an effort to change the meaning of the legislation, to avoid enforcing certain provisions of the legislation that the President does not like, and to raise implausible or dubious constitutional objections to the legislation. The fact that President Bush has issued signing statements to challenge over 1100 laws – more than any president in history – is a clear abuse of this prerogative. No one doubts that it is appropriate to use signing statements to protect a president's constitutional prerogatives; unfortunately, the Bush Administration has gone much further than that.

    5. Does the Constitution permit a president to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants?

    No. I reject the Bush Administration's claim that the President has plenary authority under the Constitution to detain U.S. citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants.

    6. Does executive privilege cover testimony or documents about decision-making within the executive branch not involving confidential advice communicated to the president himself?

    With respect to the “core” of executive privilege, the Supreme Court has not resolved this question, and reasonable people have debated it. My view is that executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House.

    7. If Congress defines a specific interrogation technique as prohibited under all circumstances, does the president's authority as commander in chief ever permit him to instruct his subordinates to employ that technique despite the statute?

    No. The President is not above the law, and the Commander-in-Chief power does not entitle him to use techniques that Congress has specifically banned as torture. We must send a message to the world that America is a nation of laws, and a nation that stands against torture. As President I will abide by statutory prohibitions, and have the Army Field Manual govern interrogation techniques for all United States Government personnel and contractors.

    8. Under what circumstances, if any, is the president, when operating overseas as commander-in-chief, free to disregard international human rights treaties that the US Senate has ratified?

    It is illegal and unwise for the President to disregard international human rights treaties that have been ratified by the United States Senate, including and especially the Geneva Conventions. The Commander-in-Chief power does not allow the President to defy those treaties.

    9. Do you agree or disagree with the statement made by former Attorney General Gonzales in January 2007 that nothing in the Constitution confers an affirmative right to habeas corpus, separate from any statutory habeas rights Congress might grant or take away?

    Disagree strongly.

    10. Is there any executive power the Bush administration has claimed or exercised that you think is unconstitutional? Anything you think is simply a bad idea?

    First and foremost, I agree with the Supreme Court's several decisions rejecting the extreme arguments of the Bush Administration, most importantly in the Hamdi and Hamdan cases. I also reject the view, suggested in memoranda by the Department of Justice, that the President may do whatever he deems necessary to protect national security, and that he may torture people in defiance of congressional enactments. In my view, torture is unconstitutional, and certain enhanced interrogation techniques like “waterboarding” clearly constitute torture. And as noted, I reject the use of signing statements to make extreme and implausible claims of presidential authority.

    Some further points:

    The detention of American citizens, without access to counsel, fair procedure, or pursuant to judicial authorization, as enemy combatants is unconstitutional.

    Warrantless surveillance of American citizens, in defiance of FISA, is unlawful and unconstitutional.

    The violation of international treaties that have been ratified by the Senate, specifically the Geneva Conventions, was illegal (as the Supreme Court held) and a bad idea.

    The creation of military commissions, without congressional authorization, was unlawful (as the Supreme Court held) and a bad idea.

    I believe the Administration’s use of executive authority to over-classify information is a bad idea. We need to restore the balance between the necessarily secret and the necessity of openness in our democracy – which is why I have called for a National Declassification Center.

    11. Who are your campaign's advisers for legal issues?

    Laurence Tribe, Professor of Law, Harvard University

    Cass Sunstein, Professor of Law, University of Chicago

    Jeh C. Johnson, former General Counsel of Department of the Air Force (1998-2001)

    Gregory Craig, former Assistant to the President and Special Counsel (1998-1999), former Director of Policy Planning for U.S. Department of State (1997-1998)

    12. Do you think it is important for all would-be presidents to answer questions like these before voters decide which one to entrust with the powers of the presidency? What would you say about any rival candidate who refuses to answer such questions?

    Yes, these are essential questions that all the candidates should answer. Any President takes an oath to, “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." The American people need to know where we stand on these issues before they entrust us with this responsibility – particularly at a time when our laws, our traditions, and our Constitution have been repeatedly challenged by this Administration.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    4. Under what circumstances, if any, would you sign a bill into law but also issue a signing statement reserving a constitutional right to bypass the law?

    Signing statements have been used by presidents of both parties, dating back to Andrew Jackson. While it is legitimate for a president to issue a signing statement to clarify his understanding of ambiguous provisions of statutes and to explain his view of how he intends to faithfully execute the law, it is a clear abuse of power to use such statements as a license to evade laws that the president does not like or as an end-run around provisions designed to foster accountability.

    I will not use signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law. The problem with this administration is that it has attached signing statements to legislation in an effort to change the meaning of the legislation, to avoid enforcing certain provisions of the legislation that the President does not like, and to raise implausible or dubious constitutional objections to the legislation. The fact that President Bush has issued signing statements to challenge over 1100 laws – more than any president in history – is a clear abuse of this prerogative. No one doubts that it is appropriate to use signing statements to protect a president's constitutional prerogatives; unfortunately, the Bush Administration has gone much further than that.

    5. Does the Constitution permit a president to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants?

    No. I reject the Bush Administration's claim that the President has plenary authority under the Constitution to detain U.S. citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants.

    6. Does executive privilege cover testimony or documents about decision-making within the executive branch not involving confidential advice communicated to the president himself?

    With respect to the “core” of executive privilege, the Supreme Court has not resolved this question, and reasonable people have debated it. My view is that executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House.

    7. If Congress defines a specific interrogation technique as prohibited under all circumstances, does the president's authority as commander in chief ever permit him to instruct his subordinates to employ that technique despite the statute?

    No. The President is not above the law, and the Commander-in-Chief power does not entitle him to use techniques that Congress has specifically banned as torture. We must send a message to the world that America is a nation of laws, and a nation that stands against torture. As President I will abide by statutory prohibitions, and have the Army Field Manual govern interrogation techniques for all United States Government personnel and contractors.

    8. Under what circumstances, if any, is the president, when operating overseas as commander-in-chief, free to disregard international human rights treaties that the US Senate has ratified?

    It is illegal and unwise for the President to disregard international human rights treaties that have been ratified by the United States Senate, including and especially the Geneva Conventions. The Commander-in-Chief power does not allow the President to defy those treaties.

    9. Do you agree or disagree with the statement made by former Attorney General Gonzales in January 2007 that nothing in the Constitution confers an affirmative right to habeas corpus, separate from any statutory habeas rights Congress might grant or take away?

    Disagree strongly.

    10. Is there any executive power the Bush administration has claimed or exercised that you think is unconstitutional? Anything you think is simply a bad idea?

    First and foremost, I agree with the Supreme Court's several decisions rejecting the extreme arguments of the Bush Administration, most importantly in the Hamdi and Hamdan cases. I also reject the view, suggested in memoranda by the Department of Justice, that the President may do whatever he deems necessary to protect national security, and that he may torture people in defiance of congressional enactments. In my view, torture is unconstitutional, and certain enhanced interrogation techniques like “waterboarding” clearly constitute torture. And as noted, I reject the use of signing statements to make extreme and implausible claims of presidential authority.

    Some further points:

    The detention of American citizens, without access to counsel, fair procedure, or pursuant to judicial authorization, as enemy combatants is unconstitutional.

    Warrantless surveillance of American citizens, in defiance of FISA, is unlawful and unconstitutional.

    The violation of international treaties that have been ratified by the Senate, specifically the Geneva Conventions, was illegal (as the Supreme Court held) and a bad idea.

    The creation of military commissions, without congressional authorization, was unlawful (as the Supreme Court held) and a bad idea.

    I believe the Administration’s use of executive authority to over-classify information is a bad idea. We need to restore the balance between the necessarily secret and the necessity of openness in our democracy – which is why I have called for a National Declassification Center.

    11. Who are your campaign's advisers for legal issues?

    Laurence Tribe, Professor of Law, Harvard University

    Cass Sunstein, Professor of Law, University of Chicago

    Jeh C. Johnson, former General Counsel of Department of the Air Force (1998-2001)

    Gregory Craig, former Assistant to the President and Special Counsel (1998-1999), former Director of Policy Planning for U.S. Department of State (1997-1998)

    12. Do you think it is important for all would-be presidents to answer questions like these before voters decide which one to entrust with the powers of the presidency? What would you say about any rival candidate who refuses to answer such questions?

    Yes, these are essential questions that all the candidates should answer. Any President takes an oath to, “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." The American people need to know where we stand on these issues before they entrust us with this responsibility – particularly at a time when our laws, our traditions, and our Constitution have been repeatedly challenged by this Administration.

     
    rick3117
    rick3117
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 14715
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:09 PM ET #3

    A lot has changed since December of 2007
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    A lot has changed since December of 2007
     
    dl36
    dl36
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2003
    Posts: 27850
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:12 PM ET #4

    Business must be slow Rick... Seems like you are putting alot of effort into this... Not quite rivaling the obsessive psychoness that we see from the "usual suspects" how ever
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Business must be slow Rick... Seems like you are putting alot of effort into this... Not quite rivaling the obsessive psychoness that we see from the "usual suspects" how ever
     
    rick3117
    rick3117
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 14715
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:17 PM ET #5

    Thought it was a great look back at what people thought they were getting, vs. the reality of what we have . 

    Business was pretty slow today.  No class tonight, no case studies, etc. 

    Stopped by the pub and had a few beers on the way home from an estimate, and now, I'm relaxing and scoping out some fantasy sleepers for my draft on sunday.  

    This literally took 2 min to copy and paste after it hit my twitter feed.  not much effort at all. 

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Thought it was a great look back at what people thought they were getting, vs. the reality of what we have . 

    Business was pretty slow today.  No class tonight, no case studies, etc. 

    Stopped by the pub and had a few beers on the way home from an estimate, and now, I'm relaxing and scoping out some fantasy sleepers for my draft on sunday.  

    This literally took 2 min to copy and paste after it hit my twitter feed.  not much effort at all. 

     
    canovsp
    canovsp
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 5755
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:30 PM ET #6

    He had his fingers crossed.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    He had his fingers crossed.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58404
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:30 PM ET #7

    rick,

    Quick Q..

    Do you think this Syria quagmire is coming from Obama? Do you think he is engineering all of this?

    I do not personally..
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    rick,

    Quick Q..

    Do you think this Syria quagmire is coming from Obama? Do you think he is engineering all of this?

    I do not personally..
     
    dl36
    dl36
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2003
    Posts: 27850
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:34 PM ET #8

    Alot of effort to read however...

    It's too bad that the legitimate criticism of Obama gets droned out by the constant chatter of desperate attempts at negative attribution.

    I honestly think that was extremely poor strategy on the part of GOPs in the first term and literally marched him into a second turn, crying all the way about unfair coverage.

    I knew about school and the business. Didnt know you were a fantasy person. Great time of year! Good luck on your draft.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Alot of effort to read however...

    It's too bad that the legitimate criticism of Obama gets droned out by the constant chatter of desperate attempts at negative attribution.

    I honestly think that was extremely poor strategy on the part of GOPs in the first term and literally marched him into a second turn, crying all the way about unfair coverage.

    I knew about school and the business. Didnt know you were a fantasy person. Great time of year! Good luck on your draft.
     
    dl36
    dl36
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2003
    Posts: 27850
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:38 PM ET #9

    Wsc... Truth is irrelevant when you are dealing with the victim mentality...

    If you blame Obama for everything then there is no need for personal responsibility and accountability...

    Nothing seems to terrify the "usual suspects" more then that, resulting in their need to continue perpetuate this culture of "victim mentality" further...

    Really sad how they live their lives and have been prescribed as a mindless group to think in unison...
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Wsc... Truth is irrelevant when you are dealing with the victim mentality...

    If you blame Obama for everything then there is no need for personal responsibility and accountability...

    Nothing seems to terrify the "usual suspects" more then that, resulting in their need to continue perpetuate this culture of "victim mentality" further...

    Really sad how they live their lives and have been prescribed as a mindless group to think in unison...
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58404
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 6:54 PM ET #10

    dl,

    I am not looking to fight with rick..

    I am only pointing out that the military complex is not being discussed here, only the commander in chief. I think the military complex is pushing this issue, not Obama exclusively.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    dl,

    I am not looking to fight with rick..

    I am only pointing out that the military complex is not being discussed here, only the commander in chief. I think the military complex is pushing this issue, not Obama exclusively.
     
    TILTOLOGIC
    TILTOLOGIC
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2007
    Posts: 5527
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 7:28 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    dl,

    I am not looking to fight with rick..

    I am only pointing out that the military complex is not being discussed here, only the commander in chief. I think the military complex is pushing this issue, not Obama exclusively.

    If that is the case, and that is a HUGE if, its only because Obama kept making threats he knew he would never really back up. His handling has been a circus act and that's putting it gently. 
    And so now the military brass are concerned about losing face and its ability to threaten and back up those threats in the future. 

    And if that is the case, and that is a MASSIVE if, he is supposed to be the "Change" President that stands up to the old guard. Either way this is a giant clusterf#ck of his own making.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    dl,

    I am not looking to fight with rick..

    I am only pointing out that the military complex is not being discussed here, only the commander in chief. I think the military complex is pushing this issue, not Obama exclusively.

    If that is the case, and that is a HUGE if, its only because Obama kept making threats he knew he would never really back up. His handling has been a circus act and that's putting it gently. 
    And so now the military brass are concerned about losing face and its ability to threaten and back up those threats in the future. 

    And if that is the case, and that is a MASSIVE if, he is supposed to be the "Change" President that stands up to the old guard. Either way this is a giant clusterf#ck of his own making.

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58404
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 7:42 PM ET #12

    Tilt,

    I see too much of the reverse from Obama to make me think he is the driving force behind this action.

    I think the complex in many cases is larger than the president...

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Tilt,

    I see too much of the reverse from Obama to make me think he is the driving force behind this action.

    I think the complex in many cases is larger than the president...

     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:09 PM ET #13

    Wall,
    What should Obama do about Syria?
    Regardless of who is pushing what agenda this is his responsibility as commander in chief of the largest super power in the world. He has advisors both military and civilian that give him all the data, strategies, fall out scenarios etc. In the end the world and the American people are looking to him to decide on something. I don't envy the man but what Rick posted illustrates that it's one thing to hypothetisize and another when you are in the captains chair.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Wall,
    What should Obama do about Syria?
    Regardless of who is pushing what agenda this is his responsibility as commander in chief of the largest super power in the world. He has advisors both military and civilian that give him all the data, strategies, fall out scenarios etc. In the end the world and the American people are looking to him to decide on something. I don't envy the man but what Rick posted illustrates that it's one thing to hypothetisize and another when you are in the captains chair.
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:13 PM ET #14

    And remember the decision is Obamas not the military complex.

    Do u think they made him go out and make the red line quote?
    As I said I don't envy Obama but I do give him credit for not rushing headlong into a decision.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    And remember the decision is Obamas not the military complex.

    Do u think they made him go out and make the red line quote?
    As I said I don't envy Obama but I do give him credit for not rushing headlong into a decision.
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:14 PM ET #15

    I will add that McCain is an idiot...sorry off topic but I heard am interview with him today......
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I will add that McCain is an idiot...sorry off topic but I heard am interview with him today......
     
    don juan
    don juan
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2001
    Posts: 5561
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:20 PM ET #16

    You're in good hand with this President when it comes to war. Or any decision for that matter. No impulsive knee jerk reaction. The man is prudent, practical, cool cucumber.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    You're in good hand with this President when it comes to war. Or any decision for that matter. No impulsive knee jerk reaction. The man is prudent, practical, cool cucumber.

     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58404
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:30 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    And remember the decision is Obamas not the military complex.

    Do u think they made him go out and make the red line quote?
    As I said I don't envy Obama but I do give him credit for not rushing headlong into a decision.

    Good point and that is partly why I question who is driving this initiative, I dont see Obama as a war supporter, I do see him as a social supporter though..so the social programs and ideas he is pushing.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    And remember the decision is Obamas not the military complex.

    Do u think they made him go out and make the red line quote?
    As I said I don't envy Obama but I do give him credit for not rushing headlong into a decision.

    Good point and that is partly why I question who is driving this initiative, I dont see Obama as a war supporter, I do see him as a social supporter though..so the social programs and ideas he is pushing.
     
    rick3117
    rick3117
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2006
    Posts: 14715
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 8:47 PM ET #18

    Wall,

    I do not think that it is as simple as we make it.  I do not have all the intel, but I do know this.

    There is precedent set for this president to go around congress and work on behalf of the Arab League and NATO to take out Ghadaffi in a military action. 

    I know that the current options are not good, and there is little support, and the tired "peaceful protester" line has been completely worn out. 

    I do not know what Obama's thinking is, nor do I know his end game, but I know that if it were popular, he would drone the crap out of Syrian armies, factories, and leadership in a heartbeat and give all the support to the radical islamists that they desired. 

    I have serious questions as to the gassing, who did it, and when.  John Kerry said that it doesn't matter who did it and therefore it is Assad's fault.  That makes me not buy it. 

    Either way.  We know that this president will not consult congress, nor use the proper channels to use force. 

    He will not get UN approval because China and Russia are not going to give it. 

    So what does he do? 

     

    I see Obama as a war supporter.  What else would you call someone who updates kill lists daily over morning coffe, and has directly targeted teenagers for drone strikes?

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Wall,

    I do not think that it is as simple as we make it.  I do not have all the intel, but I do know this.

    There is precedent set for this president to go around congress and work on behalf of the Arab League and NATO to take out Ghadaffi in a military action. 

    I know that the current options are not good, and there is little support, and the tired "peaceful protester" line has been completely worn out. 

    I do not know what Obama's thinking is, nor do I know his end game, but I know that if it were popular, he would drone the crap out of Syrian armies, factories, and leadership in a heartbeat and give all the support to the radical islamists that they desired. 

    I have serious questions as to the gassing, who did it, and when.  John Kerry said that it doesn't matter who did it and therefore it is Assad's fault.  That makes me not buy it. 

    Either way.  We know that this president will not consult congress, nor use the proper channels to use force. 

    He will not get UN approval because China and Russia are not going to give it. 

    So what does he do? 

     

    I see Obama as a war supporter.  What else would you call someone who updates kill lists daily over morning coffe, and has directly targeted teenagers for drone strikes?

     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 9:45 PM ET #19

    Don, our foreign policy still sucks. Obama hasn't been very successful with his approach. Bush wasn't successful with his either.
    What's the answer to a foreign policy that hasn't been effective regardless of the approach?
    Syria is only one country that has issues right now and we don't have any plan that I know of nor do I think we had a plan a year ago.
    Personally, it would be nice for the Frnch and Brits to handle this one.

    Other than that I don't know what to say about our foreign policy except it is knee jerk to the crisis du jour.
    Not looking for a fight Don....looking for some good dialogue
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Don, our foreign policy still sucks. Obama hasn't been very successful with his approach. Bush wasn't successful with his either.
    What's the answer to a foreign policy that hasn't been effective regardless of the approach?
    Syria is only one country that has issues right now and we don't have any plan that I know of nor do I think we had a plan a year ago.
    Personally, it would be nice for the Frnch and Brits to handle this one.

    Other than that I don't know what to say about our foreign policy except it is knee jerk to the crisis du jour.
    Not looking for a fight Don....looking for some good dialogue
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:09 PM ET #20

    I would recommend that Obama listen to advisors, consult congress, the UN, neighboring Syrian countries and talk to the American people.
    The UN is for appearance sake as Russia and China will block any punishment aimed at Syria.
    I guess what is our intended end game.
    McCain is on again claiming the free Syrian army is legit. I don't know if that's true but I doubt it. All parties over there want power and control and I haven't a clue who are the behind the scene members in all these factions.
    Where McCain gets his info to be 100% confident I don't know but I think he is probably wrong
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I would recommend that Obama listen to advisors, consult congress, the UN, neighboring Syrian countries and talk to the American people.
    The UN is for appearance sake as Russia and China will block any punishment aimed at Syria.
    I guess what is our intended end game.
    McCain is on again claiming the free Syrian army is legit. I don't know if that's true but I doubt it. All parties over there want power and control and I haven't a clue who are the behind the scene members in all these factions.
    Where McCain gets his info to be 100% confident I don't know but I think he is probably wrong
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:11 PM ET #21

    And would it surprise anyone if the rebels did this to get the USA to blame Assad and back the rebels with weapons, money and support?
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    And would it surprise anyone if the rebels did this to get the USA to blame Assad and back the rebels with weapons, money and support?
     
    lordspoint
    lordspoint
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2006
    Posts: 13134
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:12 PM ET #22

    Oh and we should wait for the UN inspectors to finish their investigation.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Oh and we should wait for the UN inspectors to finish their investigation.
     
    wallstreetcappers
    wallstreetcappers
    Covers Linesmen
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2003
    Posts: 58404
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:24 PM ET #23

    rick,

    I think the military command inside the government is quite strong and has been for decades..I am also not convinced the drones are his idea or cause either.

    As you say we have no idea what goes on inside the halls, but what seems constant is the military leadership changes LESS than the presidents and congress do...
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    rick,

    I think the military command inside the government is quite strong and has been for decades..I am also not convinced the drones are his idea or cause either.

    As you say we have no idea what goes on inside the halls, but what seems constant is the military leadership changes LESS than the presidents and congress do...
     
    bowlslit
    bowlslit
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2008
    Posts: 5625
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:48 PM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by dl36:

    Alot of effort to read however...

    It's too bad that the legitimate criticism of Obama gets droned out by the constant chatter of desperate attempts at negative attribution.

    I honestly think that was extremely poor strategy on the part of GOPs in the first term and literally marched him into a second turn, crying all the way about unfair coverage.

    I knew about school and the business. Didnt know you were a fantasy person. Great time of year! Good luck on your draft.


    Who cares about what plan the GOP used in the first term? Is that even relevant to the discussion that Rick was trying to engage in?

    Why do you get all butt hurt when someone tries to constructively criticize your buddy Obama and his perceived abuses of power that Bush was WRONGLY accused of.

    Why is it so difficult for conservatives or libertarians to get their turn to criticize the actions of a president they don't agree with? You liberals didn't hold any punches against Bush.
    WTF?
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by dl36:

    Alot of effort to read however...

    It's too bad that the legitimate criticism of Obama gets droned out by the constant chatter of desperate attempts at negative attribution.

    I honestly think that was extremely poor strategy on the part of GOPs in the first term and literally marched him into a second turn, crying all the way about unfair coverage.

    I knew about school and the business. Didnt know you were a fantasy person. Great time of year! Good luck on your draft.


    Who cares about what plan the GOP used in the first term? Is that even relevant to the discussion that Rick was trying to engage in?

    Why do you get all butt hurt when someone tries to constructively criticize your buddy Obama and his perceived abuses of power that Bush was WRONGLY accused of.

    Why is it so difficult for conservatives or libertarians to get their turn to criticize the actions of a president they don't agree with? You liberals didn't hold any punches against Bush.
    WTF?
     
     
    don juan
    don juan
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jul, 2001
    Posts: 5561
    Posted: Aug. 28, 2013 - 10:56 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Don, our foreign policy still sucks. Obama hasn't been very successful with his approach. Bush wasn't successful with his either.
    What's the answer to a foreign policy that hasn't been effective regardless of the approach?
    Syria is only one country that has issues right now and we don't have any plan that I know of nor do I think we had a plan a year ago.
    Personally, it would be nice for the Frnch and Brits to handle this one.

    Other than that I don't know what to say about our foreign policy except it is knee jerk to the crisis du jour.
    Not looking for a fight Don....looking for some good dialogue

    I totally disagree.. Our foreign policy is brilliant. Let's look at the positives for a change, ( good business man should have a positive attitude and little foresight )

    Just to name a few improvements....

     

    We are out or Iraq, (yes there civil strife still on going ) not unusual in the aftermath of a war torn country.

    We are on track to be out of Afghanistan within 6-12 months.

    Dictators who have been a thorn in our side are gone from Egypt, and Libya.

    Bin Laden is dead.

    Assad is struggling to hold his own.

    Iran is contained.

    Russia and China are about the same as when Obama began.

    We are more respected around the world .

    Switzerland has agreed to provide an account list of tax evaders after 60 years of secrecy. I'm sure Mitt Robney will pay dearly to have his name taken off the list .

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Quote Originally Posted by lordspoint:

    Don, our foreign policy still sucks. Obama hasn't been very successful with his approach. Bush wasn't successful with his either.
    What's the answer to a foreign policy that hasn't been effective regardless of the approach?
    Syria is only one country that has issues right now and we don't have any plan that I know of nor do I think we had a plan a year ago.
    Personally, it would be nice for the Frnch and Brits to handle this one.

    Other than that I don't know what to say about our foreign policy except it is knee jerk to the crisis du jour.
    Not looking for a fight Don....looking for some good dialogue

    I totally disagree.. Our foreign policy is brilliant. Let's look at the positives for a change, ( good business man should have a positive attitude and little foresight )

    Just to name a few improvements....

     

    We are out or Iraq, (yes there civil strife still on going ) not unusual in the aftermath of a war torn country.

    We are on track to be out of Afghanistan within 6-12 months.

    Dictators who have been a thorn in our side are gone from Egypt, and Libya.

    Bin Laden is dead.

    Assad is struggling to hold his own.

    Iran is contained.

    Russia and China are about the same as when Obama began.

    We are more respected around the world .

    Switzerland has agreed to provide an account list of tax evaders after 60 years of secrecy. I'm sure Mitt Robney will pay dearly to have his name taken off the list .

    All Forums | Politics
    1234 Next Last»

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • 🤢🥴💩_ Fubah's risky baseball bets _🥶😲🥵 446,260 Covers arrow
    • 🏈🏈🏈 “To BEt, or not to BEt, that is the question” ...Fubah2's risky bets 302,017 Covers arrow
    • 🏈🏈🏈 Fubah2's risky CFB bets 253,846 Covers arrow
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 57,569 Covers arrow
    • 49ers vs Rams in-game live from down under 1,659 Covers arrow
    • Couple thoughts 4,813 Covers arrow
    • 9/10 Fast Cash Five 💰??🔥 5,271 Covers arrow
    • Anyone Tracking Scoring Drought System? 27,814 Covers arrow
    • NFL LOCKED IN! 95,608 Covers arrow
    • Thursday 09/10/2026 1,008 Covers arrow

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 CS Media Ltd. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.