But I wasn't winning. I do believe that you should adjust to how the table is playing. I don't believe in tightening up when you're winning as you cheat yourself out of money.
i agree with that. but to me , when i am at the point in the night ,up or down, when i dont want to get involved in any big hands or whatever, its time to go
last night i raised with AK to 10 and this guy bumped it to 20 and i folded, some other guy called his last 20 .
guy had QQ,,, of course an A showed up but i thought the guy had AA or KK. oh well
Hey "expert", how in the hell are we utilizing fold equity in this hand with a push? If the villian is folding, we obviously have the best hand, so we WANT a call. If we shove and get called, we are likely only getting called by a hand that has us beat.
I think there is an interesting dynamic here between live primarily live players and primarily online players. Chance it sounds like you are an online player who probably 8-20 tables cash games. When you are playing that many tables, I think any "online pro" will tell you that it is completely "standard" to get it all-in in this spot. Whereas a live player has ample time to make an appropriate read on the hand and can use past info on the player to make the best possible decision. I'm not saying one is better, or one is worse......BUT, I have seen a hell of a lot of online pros go busto in many situations that look to be obvious folds to me, but they will simply explain it by saying "it was a standard play".
Just for the record, I fold here 100% of the time gien all of the information. Looks like the final aggressor in the hand was trying to trap a possible aggressive straddler with AA.....and/or, the table was aggressive period, and he figured it would be more +EV to let someone else take the lead as opposed to him killing any potential action by being the "tight guy who is finally raising".
Hey "expert", how in the hell are we utilizing fold equity in this hand with a push? If the villian is folding, we obviously have the best hand, so we WANT a call. If we shove and get called, we are likely only getting called by a hand that has us beat.
I think there is an interesting dynamic here between live primarily live players and primarily online players. Chance it sounds like you are an online player who probably 8-20 tables cash games. When you are playing that many tables, I think any "online pro" will tell you that it is completely "standard" to get it all-in in this spot. Whereas a live player has ample time to make an appropriate read on the hand and can use past info on the player to make the best possible decision. I'm not saying one is better, or one is worse......BUT, I have seen a hell of a lot of online pros go busto in many situations that look to be obvious folds to me, but they will simply explain it by saying "it was a standard play".
Just for the record, I fold here 100% of the time gien all of the information. Looks like the final aggressor in the hand was trying to trap a possible aggressive straddler with AA.....and/or, the table was aggressive period, and he figured it would be more +EV to let someone else take the lead as opposed to him killing any potential action by being the "tight guy who is finally raising".
pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
completely disagree with a couple of your points.
First of all we are utilizing fold equity because we are pushing on his reraise. Regardless of the fact that you think he has aces and wont fold, the bottom line is that we have some fold equity because we came back over the top of him and a certain pct of the time he will fold to my all in reraise, regardless of what you think he may have. You are correct to say if he has aces he will never fold (therefore giving me NO fold equity) but youre not shoving if you KNOW he has aces and the bottom line is you THINK he has aces, you dont KNOW. So for you to ridicule me and call me "expert" when you cant even grasp a simple concept like fold equity then well, ?????????? Also all you guys are just assuming he has aces, its ridiculous. Does he have aces?? maybe?? probably??? but absolutely???? not even close
Also you say we are only getting called by a hand that has us beat. If you really bvelieve that guys are only stacking off with AA preflop at a cash table youre fucking nuts.
Also you categorize "online" and "live guys which is completely hilarious coming from an amateur (you). So all these "online" guys who make these "standard" plays just cant hang live yet theyre all rich and playing poker for a living while you grind on your 9-5 job talikng up how they suck live. Hilarious
Once again, your first paragraph shows how you dont completely understand these concepts you are trying to talk about. Stick to what it is youre good at (woodworking, telemarketing, etc) and leave the poker to us who do it for a living. Nothing like a guy who works at kinko's ripping a guy who does it for a living(me) telling him he doesnt know what he's atlking about, hilarious. Also the only reason I got personal with you was cuz you got personal with me
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree cuz all I have to say about what you say here is : WRONG WRONG WRONG
How in the world is it absurd to use fold equity? The guy is gonna be shoving for like $500 more after a $210 raise and you say theres no fold equity there??? If you think theres no fold equity there, the conversation is over with me because you really DONT understand the simplest concept.
Yes, if he folds an inferior hand (which obviously hed never fold a better one than KK) that isnt the OPTIMAL result but if he calls off with QQ thats not the OPTIMAL result cuz him callin off with K2 is much better so that argument doesnt hold much weight here.
Anyways, in a way I kinda feel like we're arguing different things and in a way I feel you just dont understand all it is youre trying to say. I think its a little of both but like I always say this is whats great about poker. One situation and 10 people can see 10 different things and they all can be wrong and right in all different ways.
GLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Also you say we are only getting called by a hand that has us beat. If you really bvelieve that guys are only stacking off with AA preflop at a cash table youre fucking nuts.
________
You think a guy who has not raised ONCE pre-flop ALL NIGHT is limping and then cracking off a big re-raise to a middle position raise (with a caller in between no less) with an inferior hand? If the guy has not raised once all night, you'd have to say he was completely cold decked or a pretty weak player. You think a weak player is making that kind of a move in a live game? I just don't see it.
And fold equity has to do with the liklihood that this guy will fold to your raise. If you put that liklihood at a pretty tiny number, your fold equity is also a tiny number. I see it as being very minimal IN THIS SITUATION. You obviously see it different.
Dude doesn't play ANYTHING aggressively pre-flop all night. And now he's splashing around for his entire stack with some limp/re-raising the raiser maneuver without a super strong hand? Sorry, but there aren't many of those guys out there.
This statement is why I think youre a "recreational" player. Theres just too many things stupid about that statement I dont know where to start but here I go. You first say YES< theres fold equity in a push but then say a second later that theres none if he folds cuz obviously he folded a worse hand. huh??? Theres either fold equity or theres not, his decision to call or fold doesnt change the fold equity involved. You think fold equity is something different than what it actually is therefore the reason I am labeling you. Youre basically arguing something else cuz you aint talking about fold equity, at least not correctly.
Anyways, we all agree this topic is tired so respond if you like, I'll read it but unless something else arises in this thread Im done. Hopefully no hard feelings as I know I come off a bit rude at times. Its just there's so much misinformation out there in the poker world. Well good luck and see you guys in the next thread lol
Its all good. You da man
Established in 1995,
Hot Forum Topics
