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    All Forums | Poker

    Check this beat out, tell me how to improve late mtt

    12 Next Last»
    AceDeuceShipIt
    ParmyCharm
    HutchEmAll
    Iw1nBets
    TRAIN69
    ...
    Participants:
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    Views: 1385
    Posts: 27
    12 Next Last»
     
    AceDeuceShipIt
    AceDeuceShipIt
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    Posted: Jul. 27, 2009 - 2:40 AM ET #1

    Villain is Loose

    Full Tilt Poker Game #13644514304: Midnight Madness! (99836218), Table 122 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:32:42 ET - 2009/07/27
    Seat 1: AANTENAA (19,449)
    Seat 2: kim528 (2,889)
    Seat 3: martinbeach (2,592)
    Seat 4: U naggers (23,593)
    Seat 5: A2 Ship It (4,834)
    Seat 6: Joyboy1223 (1,963)
    Seat 7: bernheld (13,217), is sitting out
    Seat 8: thunderqb10 (13,653)
    Seat 9: timchuk (20,421)
    AANTENAA antes 75
    kim528 antes 75
    martinbeach antes 75
    U naggers antes 75
    A2 Ship It antes 75
    Joyboy1223 antes 75
    bernheld antes 75
    thunderqb10 antes 75
    timchuk antes 75
    U naggers posts the small blind of 300
    A2 Ship It posts the big blind of 600
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to A2 Ship It [Ac Qh]
    Joyboy1223 has 15 seconds left to act
    Joyboy1223 has been disconnected
    Joyboy1223 folds
    bernheld folds
    Joyboy1223 has reconnected
    thunderqb10 raises to 1,500
    timchuk folds
    AANTENAA folds
    kim528 calls 1,500
    martinbeach folds
    U naggers folds
    A2 Ship It raises to 4,759, and is all in
    thunderqb10 raises to 13,578, and is all in
    kim528 calls 1,314, and is all in
    thunderqb10 shows [Kd Kc]
    kim528 shows [5c 5s]
    A2 Ship It shows [Ac Qh]
    Uncalled bet of 8,819 returned to thunderqb10
    *** FLOP *** [7h Qc Kh]
    *** TURN *** [7h Qc Kh] [4c]
    *** RIVER *** [7h Qc Kh 4c] [3c]
    thunderqb10 shows three of a kind, Kings
    bernheld has reconnected
    bernheld has returned
    A2 Ship It shows a pair of Queens
    thunderqb10 wins the side pot (3,890) with three of a kind, Kings
    kim528 shows a pair of Fives
    thunderqb10 wins the main pot (9,417) with three of a kind, Kings
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 13,307 Main pot 9,417. Side pot 3,890. | Rake 0
    Board: [7h Qc Kh 4c 3c]
    Seat 1: AANTENAA folded before the Flop
    Seat 2: kim528 showed [5c 5s] and lost with a pair of Fives
    Seat 3: martinbeach (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 4: U naggers (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: A2 Ship It (big blind) showed [Ac Qh] and lost with a pair of Queens
    Seat 6: Joyboy1223 folded before the Flop
    Seat 7: bernheld folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: thunderqb10 showed [Kd Kc] and won (13,307) with three of a kind, Kings
    Seat 9: timchuk folded before the Flop

    I'm A2 Ship It
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    Villain is Loose

    Full Tilt Poker Game #13644514304: Midnight Madness! (99836218), Table 122 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:32:42 ET - 2009/07/27
    Seat 1: AANTENAA (19,449)
    Seat 2: kim528 (2,889)
    Seat 3: martinbeach (2,592)
    Seat 4: U naggers (23,593)
    Seat 5: A2 Ship It (4,834)
    Seat 6: Joyboy1223 (1,963)
    Seat 7: bernheld (13,217), is sitting out
    Seat 8: thunderqb10 (13,653)
    Seat 9: timchuk (20,421)
    AANTENAA antes 75
    kim528 antes 75
    martinbeach antes 75
    U naggers antes 75
    A2 Ship It antes 75
    Joyboy1223 antes 75
    bernheld antes 75
    thunderqb10 antes 75
    timchuk antes 75
    U naggers posts the small blind of 300
    A2 Ship It posts the big blind of 600
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to A2 Ship It [Ac Qh]
    Joyboy1223 has 15 seconds left to act
    Joyboy1223 has been disconnected
    Joyboy1223 folds
    bernheld folds
    Joyboy1223 has reconnected
    thunderqb10 raises to 1,500
    timchuk folds
    AANTENAA folds
    kim528 calls 1,500
    martinbeach folds
    U naggers folds
    A2 Ship It raises to 4,759, and is all in
    thunderqb10 raises to 13,578, and is all in
    kim528 calls 1,314, and is all in
    thunderqb10 shows [Kd Kc]
    kim528 shows [5c 5s]
    A2 Ship It shows [Ac Qh]
    Uncalled bet of 8,819 returned to thunderqb10
    *** FLOP *** [7h Qc Kh]
    *** TURN *** [7h Qc Kh] [4c]
    *** RIVER *** [7h Qc Kh 4c] [3c]
    thunderqb10 shows three of a kind, Kings
    bernheld has reconnected
    bernheld has returned
    A2 Ship It shows a pair of Queens
    thunderqb10 wins the side pot (3,890) with three of a kind, Kings
    kim528 shows a pair of Fives
    thunderqb10 wins the main pot (9,417) with three of a kind, Kings
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 13,307 Main pot 9,417. Side pot 3,890. | Rake 0
    Board: [7h Qc Kh 4c 3c]
    Seat 1: AANTENAA folded before the Flop
    Seat 2: kim528 showed [5c 5s] and lost with a pair of Fives
    Seat 3: martinbeach (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 4: U naggers (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: A2 Ship It (big blind) showed [Ac Qh] and lost with a pair of Queens
    Seat 6: Joyboy1223 folded before the Flop
    Seat 7: bernheld folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: thunderqb10 showed [Kd Kc] and won (13,307) with three of a kind, Kings
    Seat 9: timchuk folded before the Flop

    I'm A2 Ship It
     
    ParmyCharm
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    Posted: Jul. 27, 2009 - 2:46 AM ET #2

    With big blind at 600 and you with 4824 chips, I don't see how you get away from this hand.
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    With big blind at 600 and you with 4824 chips, I don't see how you get away from this hand.
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Jul. 27, 2009 - 2:56 PM ET #3

    Pre-flop raise could have been everything from a small pair to A-10 or so.  You could have easily been racing.  If the guy really had been playing loose, I think your play is just fine. 
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    Pre-flop raise could have been everything from a small pair to A-10 or so.  You could have easily been racing.  If the guy really had been playing loose, I think your play is just fine. 
     
    Iw1nBets
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    Posted: Jul. 27, 2009 - 5:35 PM ET #4

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    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 27, 2009 - 7:46 PM ET #5

    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro
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    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro
     
    AceDeuceShipIt
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    Posted: Jul. 28, 2009 - 12:38 AM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro


    Yes I realized I was in trouble after the 3bet shove - but the best hand I was getting before my AQ was Q8 S and I was bleeding chips pretty bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro


    Yes I realized I was in trouble after the 3bet shove - but the best hand I was getting before my AQ was Q8 S and I was bleeding chips pretty bad
     
    Huge_Douche
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 1:41 AM ET #7

    no need to microanalyze
    this is a standard play
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    no need to microanalyze
    this is a standard play
     
    ChanceP
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 4:28 AM ET #8

    Ya I thgink its fine. What I think is really terrible is the guy with 55 smoothcalling 1500 with a 2800 chip stack. THATS awful lol

    Seriously though, you got the big stack making a normal raise so Im shovin my AQ on him all day with your 7 blind stack. The 55's call isnt gonna deter me from pushing either. Youve got 7 blinds and AQ, cant wait much longer. Good move, sucked you ran into KK
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    Ya I thgink its fine. What I think is really terrible is the guy with 55 smoothcalling 1500 with a 2800 chip stack. THATS awful lol

    Seriously though, you got the big stack making a normal raise so Im shovin my AQ on him all day with your 7 blind stack. The 55's call isnt gonna deter me from pushing either. Youve got 7 blinds and AQ, cant wait much longer. Good move, sucked you ran into KK
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 10:36 AM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro

    All the money went in before the flop.  Once the guy with K-K re-shoved, he had to know he was in trouble.  But the only information he had before he had to make his decision was the fact that a loose player with a big stack made a standard pre-flop raise.  Sure he can call if he has a bigger stack, but it's shove or fold at that point.  And I don't know how you fold A-Q in the face of a standard raise by a loose player at a short-handed table.

    You must just play too good. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    A raise and a call means you are probably in trouble....you HAVE to hit a flop with that hand.....You should assume one of them has a pocket pair and your A/Q might be dominated by A/K ....
     
    bottomline: getting your money all in with A/Q offsuit is rarely profitable, especially vs 2 opponents.....
     
    gl bro

    All the money went in before the flop.  Once the guy with K-K re-shoved, he had to know he was in trouble.  But the only information he had before he had to make his decision was the fact that a loose player with a big stack made a standard pre-flop raise.  Sure he can call if he has a bigger stack, but it's shove or fold at that point.  And I don't know how you fold A-Q in the face of a standard raise by a loose player at a short-handed table.

    You must just play too good. 

     
    gers
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 1:25 PM ET #10

    unfortunate you ran into kings
    was in a mtt past weekend final six had k-k after i raised got reraised all in ran into a-a figured i was in deep shit before i called
     
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    unfortunate you ran into kings
    was in a mtt past weekend final six had k-k after i raised got reraised all in ran into a-a figured i was in deep shit before i called
     
     
    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 9:12 PM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    All the money went in before the flop.  Once the guy with K-K re-shoved, he had to know he was in trouble.  But the only information he had before he had to make his decision was the fact that a loose player with a big stack made a standard pre-flop raise.  Sure he can call if he has a bigger stack, but it's shove or fold at that point.  And I don't know how you fold A-Q in the face of a standard raise by a loose player at a short-handed table.

    You must just play too good. 

    Not just a raise.....a raise AND a call.....that means your A/Q is probably shit.... how many times do you have to get knocked out of a tourney holding a/q or a/k to realize they look really good pre flop until the other player flips over a pair....and a/q vs 2 random hands is a crapshoot....they make tables for that involving dice ....

    nice attempt bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    All the money went in before the flop.  Once the guy with K-K re-shoved, he had to know he was in trouble.  But the only information he had before he had to make his decision was the fact that a loose player with a big stack made a standard pre-flop raise.  Sure he can call if he has a bigger stack, but it's shove or fold at that point.  And I don't know how you fold A-Q in the face of a standard raise by a loose player at a short-handed table.

    You must just play too good. 

    Not just a raise.....a raise AND a call.....that means your A/Q is probably shit.... how many times do you have to get knocked out of a tourney holding a/q or a/k to realize they look really good pre flop until the other player flips over a pair....and a/q vs 2 random hands is a crapshoot....they make tables for that involving dice ....

    nice attempt bro

     
    AceDeuceShipIt
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 10:51 PM ET #12

    Respectfully disagree bro, I think you would have made the same play, with the image reads at the table.
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    Respectfully disagree bro, I think you would have made the same play, with the image reads at the table.
     
    TRAIN69
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    Posted: Jul. 29, 2009 - 11:47 PM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by AceDeuceShipIt:

    Respectfully disagree bro, I think you would have made the same play, with the image reads at the table.

     

    Im not saying you played poorly, i might have done the same thing, but you asked how you could improve. If it was late in the tourney, you also have to consider that the other shortstack will probably go all in, moving you up the pay ladder (if they pay that many spots)......a/q is only a good have if the player has a/rag or q/something...otherwise, its gonna be 50/50 or worse for you 9/10 times....

     

    gl bro, good conversation

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    Quote Originally Posted by AceDeuceShipIt:

    Respectfully disagree bro, I think you would have made the same play, with the image reads at the table.

     

    Im not saying you played poorly, i might have done the same thing, but you asked how you could improve. If it was late in the tourney, you also have to consider that the other shortstack will probably go all in, moving you up the pay ladder (if they pay that many spots)......a/q is only a good have if the player has a/rag or q/something...otherwise, its gonna be 50/50 or worse for you 9/10 times....

     

    gl bro, good conversation

     
    AceDeuceShipIt
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    Posted: Jul. 30, 2009 - 2:00 AM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

     

    Im not saying you played poorly, i might have done the same thing, but you asked how you could improve. If it was late in the tourney, you also have to consider that the other shortstack will probably go all in, moving you up the pay ladder (if they pay that many spots)......a/q is only a good have if the player has a/rag or q/something...otherwise, its gonna be 50/50 or worse for you 9/10 times....

     

    gl bro, good conversation



    Good insight my friend I was willing to make a big gamble to get atop the leader boards because I was already in the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

     

    Im not saying you played poorly, i might have done the same thing, but you asked how you could improve. If it was late in the tourney, you also have to consider that the other shortstack will probably go all in, moving you up the pay ladder (if they pay that many spots)......a/q is only a good have if the player has a/rag or q/something...otherwise, its gonna be 50/50 or worse for you 9/10 times....

     

    gl bro, good conversation



    Good insight my friend I was willing to make a big gamble to get atop the leader boards because I was already in the money.
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2009 - 11:19 AM ET #15

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    Not just a raise.....a raise AND a call.....that means your A/Q is probably shit.... how many times do you have to get knocked out of a tourney holding a/q or a/k to realize they look really good pre flop until the other player flips over a pair....and a/q vs 2 random hands is a crapshoot....they make tables for that involving dice ....

    nice attempt bro

    Sorry, bro, but you are wrong.  Villain raised with KK and then A2 went all in.  QB called AFTER A2 went all in.  The only information A2 had to make his decision was a raise by a guy who was playing loose.  QB could have raised with a lot of hands there.  The only hands that A2 was NOT getting odds to call was A's, K's, or Q's.  He happened to have one of those hands.  If you could have figured that out, then you are a better player then I am. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

    Not just a raise.....a raise AND a call.....that means your A/Q is probably shit.... how many times do you have to get knocked out of a tourney holding a/q or a/k to realize they look really good pre flop until the other player flips over a pair....and a/q vs 2 random hands is a crapshoot....they make tables for that involving dice ....

    nice attempt bro

    Sorry, bro, but you are wrong.  Villain raised with KK and then A2 went all in.  QB called AFTER A2 went all in.  The only information A2 had to make his decision was a raise by a guy who was playing loose.  QB could have raised with a lot of hands there.  The only hands that A2 was NOT getting odds to call was A's, K's, or Q's.  He happened to have one of those hands.  If you could have figured that out, then you are a better player then I am. 

     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2009 - 11:20 AM ET #16

    .....a raise AND a call.....
    __________
     
    The call was AFTER he went all in.  You can't use that to analyze the hand. 
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    .....a raise AND a call.....
    __________
     
    The call was AFTER he went all in.  You can't use that to analyze the hand. 
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Aug. 1, 2009 - 11:21 AM ET #17

    the only one who played that hand poorly was kim528.
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    the only one who played that hand poorly was kim528.
     
    gers
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2009 - 12:48 AM ET #18

    hows this for a bad beat flopped straight on flop the other player goes all in and i call he has trip 10s but hits when q comes on turn for full house
    poker minds out there would you have called the all in it was tonites midnight madness tourn at full tilt came back there after 3 month layoff from there
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    hows this for a bad beat flopped straight on flop the other player goes all in and i call he has trip 10s but hits when q comes on turn for full house
    poker minds out there would you have called the all in it was tonites midnight madness tourn at full tilt came back there after 3 month layoff from there
     
    gers
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    Posted: Aug. 2, 2009 - 1:18 AM ET #19

    paging akrons in need of a coach
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    paging akrons in need of a coach
     
    HutchEmAll
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    Posted: Aug. 4, 2009 - 12:25 PM ET #20

    gers-
     
    If he has trips on the flop, he has plenty of outs....7 on the turn and then 10 on the river.  So it's not that crazy that he hit his full house.  Either way, if you had the good end of the straight on the flop, you have to call IMO.  3:1 fav on the turn and then 4:1 or so on the river....if my math is right.  Just bad luck. 
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    gers-
     
    If he has trips on the flop, he has plenty of outs....7 on the turn and then 10 on the river.  So it's not that crazy that he hit his full house.  Either way, if you had the good end of the straight on the flop, you have to call IMO.  3:1 fav on the turn and then 4:1 or so on the river....if my math is right.  Just bad luck. 
     
    gers
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    Posted: Aug. 4, 2009 - 1:50 PM ET #21

    yup i know just bads luck   its poker
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    yup i know just bads luck   its poker
     
    Godfather16
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    Posted: Aug. 4, 2009 - 2:38 PM ET #22

    flop a straight? you gotta gamble. I have played in limit games though where idiots call the flop with nothing, but a backdoor draw, and hit, and they scoop a big pot. I get pretty pissed as they hit about a 25:1 shot on the flop. But actually, we should beg to play with fools like this, as over a lifetime all of those "dead" bets add up for us. In a low limit game see how many players chase to the river, and invariably they miss. The key is to chase when the time is right, when the pot is big, or you have a pair and a great draw, or multiple draws.
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    flop a straight? you gotta gamble. I have played in limit games though where idiots call the flop with nothing, but a backdoor draw, and hit, and they scoop a big pot. I get pretty pissed as they hit about a 25:1 shot on the flop. But actually, we should beg to play with fools like this, as over a lifetime all of those "dead" bets add up for us. In a low limit game see how many players chase to the river, and invariably they miss. The key is to chase when the time is right, when the pot is big, or you have a pair and a great draw, or multiple draws.
     
    Fadeville
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    Posted: Aug. 8, 2009 - 5:51 PM ET #23

    Totally correct play.
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    Totally correct play.
     
    wizardofroz
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    Posted: Aug. 10, 2009 - 2:27 AM ET #24

    Since you already had 600 invested in the big blind, you actually had the option to just call 900 more and see the flop  You may not have gotten away from AQ after that flop of KQ7, but I think a CALL was a much better play than a shove after a raise and call in front of you.  Not knowing their cards, you then shove if a queen or ace is the highest card on the flop.  If  a queen happens to be the high card, you just have to pay off the kings.
     
    And if you miss the flop completely, you still have 3259 left in chips, even though the blinds are fairly high.  I think a pre-flop all-in by you should have only been considered if they both limped in.  If you had AK, it is only dominated pre-flop by AA, so I think you may just shove in that instance.  But you only had AQ, so I think going all-in was a POOR decision.
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    Since you already had 600 invested in the big blind, you actually had the option to just call 900 more and see the flop  You may not have gotten away from AQ after that flop of KQ7, but I think a CALL was a much better play than a shove after a raise and call in front of you.  Not knowing their cards, you then shove if a queen or ace is the highest card on the flop.  If  a queen happens to be the high card, you just have to pay off the kings.
     
    And if you miss the flop completely, you still have 3259 left in chips, even though the blinds are fairly high.  I think a pre-flop all-in by you should have only been considered if they both limped in.  If you had AK, it is only dominated pre-flop by AA, so I think you may just shove in that instance.  But you only had AQ, so I think going all-in was a POOR decision.
     
     
    AceDeuceShipIt
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    Posted: Aug. 10, 2009 - 10:23 AM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

    Since you already had 600 invested in the big blind, you actually had the option to just call 900 more and see the flop  You may not have gotten away from AQ after that flop of KQ7, but I think a CALL was a much better play than a shove after a raise and call in front of you.  Not knowing their cards, you then shove if a queen or ace is the highest card on the flop.  If  a queen happens to be the high card, you just have to pay off the kings.
     
    And if you miss the flop completely, you still have 3259 left in chips, even though the blinds are fairly high.  I think a pre-flop all-in by you should have only been considered if they both limped in.  If you had AK, it is only dominated pre-flop by AA, so I think you may just shove in that instance.  But you only had AQ, so I think going all-in was a POOR decision.


    If I call I hit middle pair, KK checks the nuts, turn is a blank I bet my middle pair and I am fucked either way. Hindsight is 20/20.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofroz:

    Since you already had 600 invested in the big blind, you actually had the option to just call 900 more and see the flop  You may not have gotten away from AQ after that flop of KQ7, but I think a CALL was a much better play than a shove after a raise and call in front of you.  Not knowing their cards, you then shove if a queen or ace is the highest card on the flop.  If  a queen happens to be the high card, you just have to pay off the kings.
     
    And if you miss the flop completely, you still have 3259 left in chips, even though the blinds are fairly high.  I think a pre-flop all-in by you should have only been considered if they both limped in.  If you had AK, it is only dominated pre-flop by AA, so I think you may just shove in that instance.  But you only had AQ, so I think going all-in was a POOR decision.


    If I call I hit middle pair, KK checks the nuts, turn is a blank I bet my middle pair and I am fucked either way. Hindsight is 20/20.
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