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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    The proof of 2015: Why you will have longterm success when capping the fundamentals of this game

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    suuma
    rivermonsterz
    Pandalicious
    fadeORdie
    mafioso
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    suuma
    suuma
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 2:54 AM ET #1

    I wanted to open this thread because we had these discussions several times this season.

    Week in, week out a lot of people say capping matchups or crunching numbers doesn't matter, you just need to read into the lines and their movement and read what some consensus sites tell you.

    https://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nfl/statistics/2015-2016/ats_regular.html

    Of the best 10 ATS teams, 9 have made the playoffs. The only team, the Jets, still ended up 10-6.

    These best 10 ATS teams went 62.5% ATS.

    Good teams make the playoffs. They make the playoffs because they have the better matchup in the majority of their games.

    If you are able to cap matchups, spots and know how to deal with numbers, you will have success.

    98% of the guys who use the words "public", "sharps", "squares", "trap", "rigged", "fixed" don't have a good, consistent and documented winning record. They pop up here and there, crying about a fix and the "public bloodbath", but none of them provides us with pregame picks and a solid record. That's a fact.

    But I can right away tell you a decent number of cappers who hit 55-70% consistently on NFL & CFB year in year out who just cap the games and never use some bullsh*t angles like public vs. sharps.

    You can track back all the games in which the "public" is all over one side. It evens out in the long run.

    I've had a very rough season, because I watched too much pre-season and was blinded at the beginning of the season. Then I wasn't able to see some transitions during the season. It happens. I've learned some important lessons this season.

    If someone disagrees on what I've just said, please attach your documented record and post some links of your threads.



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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I wanted to open this thread because we had these discussions several times this season.

    Week in, week out a lot of people say capping matchups or crunching numbers doesn't matter, you just need to read into the lines and their movement and read what some consensus sites tell you.

    https://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nfl/statistics/2015-2016/ats_regular.html

    Of the best 10 ATS teams, 9 have made the playoffs. The only team, the Jets, still ended up 10-6.

    These best 10 ATS teams went 62.5% ATS.

    Good teams make the playoffs. They make the playoffs because they have the better matchup in the majority of their games.

    If you are able to cap matchups, spots and know how to deal with numbers, you will have success.

    98% of the guys who use the words "public", "sharps", "squares", "trap", "rigged", "fixed" don't have a good, consistent and documented winning record. They pop up here and there, crying about a fix and the "public bloodbath", but none of them provides us with pregame picks and a solid record. That's a fact.

    But I can right away tell you a decent number of cappers who hit 55-70% consistently on NFL & CFB year in year out who just cap the games and never use some bullsh*t angles like public vs. sharps.

    You can track back all the games in which the "public" is all over one side. It evens out in the long run.

    I've had a very rough season, because I watched too much pre-season and was blinded at the beginning of the season. Then I wasn't able to see some transitions during the season. It happens. I've learned some important lessons this season.

    If someone disagrees on what I've just said, please attach your documented record and post some links of your threads.



     
    rivermonsterz
    rivermonsterz
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 3:42 AM ET #2

    Personally I have really enjoyed reading your write ups this year, and have used them to educate myself about a game I have only been following for a few years.
    Thanks for what you do, I really appreciate it.
    wishing you all the best for the playoffs and I look forward to reading your write ups again next season.
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    Personally I have really enjoyed reading your write ups this year, and have used them to educate myself about a game I have only been following for a few years.
    Thanks for what you do, I really appreciate it.
    wishing you all the best for the playoffs and I look forward to reading your write ups again next season.
     
    Pandalicious
    Pandalicious
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 3:42 AM ET #3

    To think that the NFL isn't rigged is laughable.

    If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl this year you'll have no choice but to accept the undeniable truth.
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    To think that the NFL isn't rigged is laughable.

    If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl this year you'll have no choice but to accept the undeniable truth.
     
    suuma
    suuma
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 4:24 AM ET #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    To think that the NFL isn't rigged is laughable.

    If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl this year you'll have no choice but to accept the undeniable truth.

    The OP isn't about the discussion whether it's rigged or not. I am saying you can't use this as an approach to cap games. The rigged posts come after the games have been played. There is no documented winning record of over 55% from guys who say you don't need to cap the matchup.

    Of the 9 playoff teams within the top-10 ATS everyone will agree these teams have earned a spot over 16 games based in the eye Test. So where is the fix?

    If PM plays a great playoffs and torches opposing defenses combined with the number 1 defense, they will earn it. Hasnt anything to do with a fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandalicious:

    To think that the NFL isn't rigged is laughable.

    If Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl this year you'll have no choice but to accept the undeniable truth.

    The OP isn't about the discussion whether it's rigged or not. I am saying you can't use this as an approach to cap games. The rigged posts come after the games have been played. There is no documented winning record of over 55% from guys who say you don't need to cap the matchup.

    Of the 9 playoff teams within the top-10 ATS everyone will agree these teams have earned a spot over 16 games based in the eye Test. So where is the fix?

    If PM plays a great playoffs and torches opposing defenses combined with the number 1 defense, they will earn it. Hasnt anything to do with a fix.

     
    fadeORdie
    fadeORdie
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 4:28 AM ET #5

    There's a difference in believing there is a fix, and knowing where the fix is.

    None of us have the script.

    All we can try is predict what the writers had intended. Every story has a subliminal message. In the same way, every game has a fix that 99.99% of us cannot predict.
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    There's a difference in believing there is a fix, and knowing where the fix is.

    None of us have the script.

    All we can try is predict what the writers had intended. Every story has a subliminal message. In the same way, every game has a fix that 99.99% of us cannot predict.
     
    fadeORdie
    fadeORdie
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 4:33 AM ET #6

    If you want proof and my record:

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=21&sub=101943177&page=3

    30-9 record half way through NFL 2014-15

    Since then I've shut shop because capping those games were literally exhausting me out physically and mentally. I could not sleep, I could not eat or drink, I had to skip work because I was so focused on capping games.

    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.
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    If you want proof and my record:

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=21&sub=101943177&page=3

    30-9 record half way through NFL 2014-15

    Since then I've shut shop because capping those games were literally exhausting me out physically and mentally. I could not sleep, I could not eat or drink, I had to skip work because I was so focused on capping games.

    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.
     
    mafioso
    mafioso
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 5:28 AM ET #7

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true
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    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true
     
    naesiy
    naesiy
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 5:49 AM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by fadeORdie:

     
    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.

      
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadeORdie:

     
    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.

      
     
    melossinglet
    melossinglet
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:05 AM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true



    im neither disagreeing nor totally endorsing wat you are pointing out here...i actually love reading your contributions and approach as much as i do guys like suuma,i see merit in both.

    but the question is,if these "too good to be true" lines are so easy to spot(and we can agree that they stick out almost every time,right??),then why can sumone simply not start a thread pointing them out and document their success rate over an extended period??...just as suuma has asked...theoretically it shud hit at 60% minimum,right??...call it "xmas gift spreads" or sumthing
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true



    im neither disagreeing nor totally endorsing wat you are pointing out here...i actually love reading your contributions and approach as much as i do guys like suuma,i see merit in both.

    but the question is,if these "too good to be true" lines are so easy to spot(and we can agree that they stick out almost every time,right??),then why can sumone simply not start a thread pointing them out and document their success rate over an extended period??...just as suuma has asked...theoretically it shud hit at 60% minimum,right??...call it "xmas gift spreads" or sumthing
     
    naesiy
    naesiy
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    Posts: 2005
    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:09 AM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true

    Exactly.  There is no reason to fill pages and pages of debate...we can't change each others minds, we have no PROOF either way...and to be quite honest, I don't really care about changing other peoples mind.  I'm only gonna lead you to water once...

    Another trap game was the flavor of the week, JETS/BILLS.  -3?  Come on now.  No matter how many arguments you could make to justify a -3 line, the general public will not know nor care about such analytics.  They see the big market team that just beat the almighty team of the last decade Patriots vs. a team in shambles that nearly lost to Dallas.  -3 is MIGHTY juicy...IMO, to the general public a -3 spread pretty much is a pick em (team just needs to win) since a FG is for all intents and purposes, the lowest winning margin usually.  General public doesn't "cap" a winning margin of a safety or 2 FG's (6) vs. 1 TD (7).

    @summa, first, let's drop the "fix" term...let's use swayed instead.  I think anyone in their right mind knows that you couldn't completely choreograph a football game based on a "script".  But you could easily sway an outcome to your favor by a flag or non flag here and there.  It wouldn't take much, wins/losses can hinge on a single play in many games since the spreads are so tight...the difference between profit and loss in this business are mere % points.

    Anyways, I think it's flawed to think just because people don't document their picks on here that they aren't successful in spotting the "swayed" games and winning due to it.  It's a different set of people that like to post and generate a following IMO.  

    Also, like Fade said, it's not about knowing there's a fix, it's spotting it.  If it was as easy as "fade the public" on every game, then there wouldn't really be any trick to it right?  Everyone would win because they would go full contrarian.  Linesmakers know this...they need to provide just as much misinformation/feints as they do "traps".  In the end, they get what they want, lifelong bettors that give and receive a pool of money that gets taxed every other time it changes hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true

    Exactly.  There is no reason to fill pages and pages of debate...we can't change each others minds, we have no PROOF either way...and to be quite honest, I don't really care about changing other peoples mind.  I'm only gonna lead you to water once...

    Another trap game was the flavor of the week, JETS/BILLS.  -3?  Come on now.  No matter how many arguments you could make to justify a -3 line, the general public will not know nor care about such analytics.  They see the big market team that just beat the almighty team of the last decade Patriots vs. a team in shambles that nearly lost to Dallas.  -3 is MIGHTY juicy...IMO, to the general public a -3 spread pretty much is a pick em (team just needs to win) since a FG is for all intents and purposes, the lowest winning margin usually.  General public doesn't "cap" a winning margin of a safety or 2 FG's (6) vs. 1 TD (7).

    @summa, first, let's drop the "fix" term...let's use swayed instead.  I think anyone in their right mind knows that you couldn't completely choreograph a football game based on a "script".  But you could easily sway an outcome to your favor by a flag or non flag here and there.  It wouldn't take much, wins/losses can hinge on a single play in many games since the spreads are so tight...the difference between profit and loss in this business are mere % points.

    Anyways, I think it's flawed to think just because people don't document their picks on here that they aren't successful in spotting the "swayed" games and winning due to it.  It's a different set of people that like to post and generate a following IMO.  

    Also, like Fade said, it's not about knowing there's a fix, it's spotting it.  If it was as easy as "fade the public" on every game, then there wouldn't really be any trick to it right?  Everyone would win because they would go full contrarian.  Linesmakers know this...they need to provide just as much misinformation/feints as they do "traps".  In the end, they get what they want, lifelong bettors that give and receive a pool of money that gets taxed every other time it changes hands.
     
    melossinglet
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:13 AM ET #11

    Quote Originally Posted by fadeORdie:

    If you want proof and my record:

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=21&sub=101943177&page=3

    30-9 record half way through NFL 2014-15

    Since then I've shut shop because capping those games were literally exhausting me out physically and mentally. I could not sleep, I could not eat or drink, I had to skip work because I was so focused on capping games.

    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.





    damn,nice work....not a massive sample size but impressive nonetheless.havent seen many that have done better.


    so that is why any time you make a recommendation in the recent past you got it wrong almost every time,because you dont devote any time to doing it anymore??...i mean,you do admit to bombing out pretty badly lately,yea??...strange how you never referred back to this when sum of us are giving you shiiit in response to all your negativity.

    if youre not even looking at matchups and trends and statistical performances then wat the heck is so time consuming about wat you were doing before??...surely you are just guessing a "storyline" and looking at lines,how can this take so much energy??

    if you were able to hit at that rate over a long timespan(a big IF but still) it cud be extremely,extremely profitable...i dont see how it cudnt be worth the time spent,even if ya didnt post them in here....how does that not occur to you??
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    Quote Originally Posted by fadeORdie:

    If you want proof and my record:

    https://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=21&sub=101943177&page=3

    30-9 record half way through NFL 2014-15

    Since then I've shut shop because capping those games were literally exhausting me out physically and mentally. I could not sleep, I could not eat or drink, I had to skip work because I was so focused on capping games.

    Then I suddenly realized this was killing me. So I've turned into a troll and here I am today.





    damn,nice work....not a massive sample size but impressive nonetheless.havent seen many that have done better.


    so that is why any time you make a recommendation in the recent past you got it wrong almost every time,because you dont devote any time to doing it anymore??...i mean,you do admit to bombing out pretty badly lately,yea??...strange how you never referred back to this when sum of us are giving you shiiit in response to all your negativity.

    if youre not even looking at matchups and trends and statistical performances then wat the heck is so time consuming about wat you were doing before??...surely you are just guessing a "storyline" and looking at lines,how can this take so much energy??

    if you were able to hit at that rate over a long timespan(a big IF but still) it cud be extremely,extremely profitable...i dont see how it cudnt be worth the time spent,even if ya didnt post them in here....how does that not occur to you??
     
    naesiy
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:16 AM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:


    .

    but the question is,if these "too good to be true" lines are so easy to spot(and we can agree that they stick out almost every time,right??),then why can sumone simply not start a thread pointing them out and document their success rate over an extended period??...just as suuma has asked...theoretically it shud hit at 60% minimum,right??...call it "xmas gift spreads" or sumthing

    Meloss....like I said above, vegas isn't dumb and neither is the general public.  If every "too good to be true line" was in fact too good to be true...eventual betters will figure this out don't you think?  Misinformation goes a long way towards what books really want...a daily/weekly gambler that deposits as much as they withdrawal (constant vig every other transaction)

    I don't understand how documenting pics somehow PROVES a "fix" or whatever you want to call it exists.  Really, is that all I need to do to sway everyone?  Come on now...that's a waste of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:


    .

    but the question is,if these "too good to be true" lines are so easy to spot(and we can agree that they stick out almost every time,right??),then why can sumone simply not start a thread pointing them out and document their success rate over an extended period??...just as suuma has asked...theoretically it shud hit at 60% minimum,right??...call it "xmas gift spreads" or sumthing

    Meloss....like I said above, vegas isn't dumb and neither is the general public.  If every "too good to be true line" was in fact too good to be true...eventual betters will figure this out don't you think?  Misinformation goes a long way towards what books really want...a daily/weekly gambler that deposits as much as they withdrawal (constant vig every other transaction)

    I don't understand how documenting pics somehow PROVES a "fix" or whatever you want to call it exists.  Really, is that all I need to do to sway everyone?  Come on now...that's a waste of time.
     
    naesiy
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:18 AM ET #13

    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:



    if you were able to hit at that rate over a long timespan(a big IF but still) it cud be extremely,extremely profitable...i dont see how it cudnt be worth the time spent,even if ya didnt post them in here....how does that not occur to you??

    Most gamblers are in it for the squeeze, not the juice.  
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    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:



    if you were able to hit at that rate over a long timespan(a big IF but still) it cud be extremely,extremely profitable...i dont see how it cudnt be worth the time spent,even if ya didnt post them in here....how does that not occur to you??

    Most gamblers are in it for the squeeze, not the juice.  
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:34 AM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true


    I had to laugh. Not because of your comment or your opinion but because of the huge discrepancy in our way of thinking. If you are successful, I don't say anything and you might be within the 2%.

    I didn't bet the game so it's hard to make a case after the final whistle. But here is my take:

    I never thought about the line setting in this game. The line was fine for me because the Vikes were on a roll and the Packers won at Minny so my opinion was the line was set right to get 50/50 action.

    I would have NEVER bet the Packers yesterday. I have several leans each week on every game, some stronger some initial and one of them was the Vikes. There was not a single way I could have come up with a play on the Packers. It was Vikes or no bet for me. Like I will tell you now and several cappers on here:

    The Vikes had the favorable matchup in the trenches and overall with their defense against the Packers offense. The banged up offensive line of the Packers got crushed last week by blitzes and the Cardinals secondary was good enough to not get beat 1on1 by these GB receivers. It's the same kind of style this healthy Vikes defense has been playing (Last time vs. GB they were banged up). Good pass rush with several blitzing schemes combined with a good secondary which makes it hard for the Packers to move the ball.

    I respect you and your opinion a lot, even though I don't agree very often. But if you say the Vikes weren't the right side from a matchup-standpoint, you don't watch many Football games or atleast haven't watched last week's Packers/Cards game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true


    I had to laugh. Not because of your comment or your opinion but because of the huge discrepancy in our way of thinking. If you are successful, I don't say anything and you might be within the 2%.

    I didn't bet the game so it's hard to make a case after the final whistle. But here is my take:

    I never thought about the line setting in this game. The line was fine for me because the Vikes were on a roll and the Packers won at Minny so my opinion was the line was set right to get 50/50 action.

    I would have NEVER bet the Packers yesterday. I have several leans each week on every game, some stronger some initial and one of them was the Vikes. There was not a single way I could have come up with a play on the Packers. It was Vikes or no bet for me. Like I will tell you now and several cappers on here:

    The Vikes had the favorable matchup in the trenches and overall with their defense against the Packers offense. The banged up offensive line of the Packers got crushed last week by blitzes and the Cardinals secondary was good enough to not get beat 1on1 by these GB receivers. It's the same kind of style this healthy Vikes defense has been playing (Last time vs. GB they were banged up). Good pass rush with several blitzing schemes combined with a good secondary which makes it hard for the Packers to move the ball.

    I respect you and your opinion a lot, even though I don't agree very often. But if you say the Vikes weren't the right side from a matchup-standpoint, you don't watch many Football games or atleast haven't watched last week's Packers/Cards game.
     
    naesiy
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:49 AM ET #15

    @FadeOrDie...

    I just seen your boxed thread on the Oregon/TCU game.  Wow bro, well done.    I love the posts when Oregon was whooping that azz....of course no one came back to eat crow afterwards.  
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    @FadeOrDie...

    I just seen your boxed thread on the Oregon/TCU game.  Wow bro, well done.    I love the posts when Oregon was whooping that azz....of course no one came back to eat crow afterwards.  
     
    melossinglet
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 6:52 AM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:


    Meloss....like I said above, vegas isn't dumb and neither is the general public.  If every "too good to be true line" was in fact too good to be true...eventual betters will figure this out don't you think?  Misinformation goes a long way towards what books really want...a daily/weekly gambler that deposits as much as they withdrawal (constant vig every other transaction)

    I don't understand how documenting pics somehow PROVES a "fix" or whatever you want to call it exists.  Really, is that all I need to do to sway everyone?  Come on now...that's a waste of time.


    no no,i agree...you are totally correct..there will be no categorical,definitive "proving" of the fix (short of some confidential conversations or transactions being recorded and released),but it wud be a big,attitude-shifting "bargaining" chip on the table to have a winning thread where sumone openly shuns any form of conventional handicapping and instead just says "oh,this line looks a little fishy" or "this team deserves payback from a loss they gave up last week" or "this team/star player MUST look good in primetime and secure playoff spot".

    how can you not see that this wud strongly help those on that side of the argument??

    i think the point really is,as suuma has pointed out,if no-one is able to accurately enuff identify the shady goings-on in specific games to profit well then its a moot point whether there is stuff going on regardless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:


    Meloss....like I said above, vegas isn't dumb and neither is the general public.  If every "too good to be true line" was in fact too good to be true...eventual betters will figure this out don't you think?  Misinformation goes a long way towards what books really want...a daily/weekly gambler that deposits as much as they withdrawal (constant vig every other transaction)

    I don't understand how documenting pics somehow PROVES a "fix" or whatever you want to call it exists.  Really, is that all I need to do to sway everyone?  Come on now...that's a waste of time.


    no no,i agree...you are totally correct..there will be no categorical,definitive "proving" of the fix (short of some confidential conversations or transactions being recorded and released),but it wud be a big,attitude-shifting "bargaining" chip on the table to have a winning thread where sumone openly shuns any form of conventional handicapping and instead just says "oh,this line looks a little fishy" or "this team deserves payback from a loss they gave up last week" or "this team/star player MUST look good in primetime and secure playoff spot".

    how can you not see that this wud strongly help those on that side of the argument??

    i think the point really is,as suuma has pointed out,if no-one is able to accurately enuff identify the shady goings-on in specific games to profit well then its a moot point whether there is stuff going on regardless.
     
    melossinglet
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 7:03 AM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:

    @FadeOrDie...

    I just seen your boxed thread on the Oregon/TCU game.  Wow bro, well done.    I love the posts when Oregon was whooping that azz....of course no one came back to eat crow afterwards.  



    thats not true.....i came after the game to give him his due..i even wished him the comeback BEFORE it happened if you check the thread.....but the fact remained that he is a highly objectionable character so it was begrudging.

    now if he posts such a play 5 times a week and hits 60%+ then you'll have sumthing and tho you can never truly convince doubters beyond any shadow of doubt you most definitely will sway many....how cud you not??
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    Quote Originally Posted by naesiy:

    @FadeOrDie...

    I just seen your boxed thread on the Oregon/TCU game.  Wow bro, well done.    I love the posts when Oregon was whooping that azz....of course no one came back to eat crow afterwards.  



    thats not true.....i came after the game to give him his due..i even wished him the comeback BEFORE it happened if you check the thread.....but the fact remained that he is a highly objectionable character so it was begrudging.

    now if he posts such a play 5 times a week and hits 60%+ then you'll have sumthing and tho you can never truly convince doubters beyond any shadow of doubt you most definitely will sway many....how cud you not??
     
    suuma
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 7:10 AM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    So, Suuma, you are saying that referees do not make game-altering or game-deciding calls because of external forces?

    EXAMPLE:  The Dez Bryant "non-catch". 

    So you really think that was just a blown call? Simple question just ot see where we are at.


    After the first replay I said "it wasn't a catch". If you read the rule book, you have to agree that it wasn't a catch. And I had the over in that game and I wasn't mad. His fault was to reach the goalline, so he was still in the catching-process.

    Several referee experts agreed ?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIBBLE4LIFE:

    So, Suuma, you are saying that referees do not make game-altering or game-deciding calls because of external forces?

    EXAMPLE:  The Dez Bryant "non-catch". 

    So you really think that was just a blown call? Simple question just ot see where we are at.


    After the first replay I said "it wasn't a catch". If you read the rule book, you have to agree that it wasn't a catch. And I had the over in that game and I wasn't mad. His fault was to reach the goalline, so he was still in the catching-process.

    Several referee experts agreed ?!
     
    naesiy
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 7:33 AM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:




    i think the point really is,as suuma has pointed out,if no-one is able to accurately enuff identify the shady goings-on in specific games to profit well then its a moot point whether there is stuff going on regardless.

    First, whether you believe it or not, I do a damn fine job of spotting the trap/fix/shady lines, whatever you want to call it.  Sometimes I bet them, sometimes I just avoid.  

    Now to your point, I disagree.  I think to truly be an exceptional capper and make a significant amount of winnings in this game, you have to be a jack of all trades in the sense that you need to cap a game from multiple angles...not just stats, not just match ups, not just the fix, not just the situation, all of it.  If not, in the end, you will be a 50% capper losing juice and vegas will be laughing all the way to the bank.  Both books and bettors have the same goal, to make money.  The difference is, books can do it by winning <50% of the time while bettors need to hit >50%.  books absolutely don't care if stats guy wins 50/50 or if match up guy wins 50/50.

    With that said, sure, we could all be profitable by hitting 53% of our bets...but why hit 53 when you could hit 55?  60?  65?  Shouldn't we all be trying to be the best capper possible to make the most amount of money?  You can't do that by refusing to see what's in front of you.  Today's Jets/Buff game was a prime example.  There was almost NOTHING that said Buff would win.  The motivation, match ups and stats were not in their favor...yet they still won.  Sure, Summa is still posting a nice profitable record this year, but imagine if he could have avoided those 5-10 loses this season that he just shouldn't have bet because the line told him otherwise, regardless of what the capping told him.  His record would be sparkling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by melossinglet:




    i think the point really is,as suuma has pointed out,if no-one is able to accurately enuff identify the shady goings-on in specific games to profit well then its a moot point whether there is stuff going on regardless.

    First, whether you believe it or not, I do a damn fine job of spotting the trap/fix/shady lines, whatever you want to call it.  Sometimes I bet them, sometimes I just avoid.  

    Now to your point, I disagree.  I think to truly be an exceptional capper and make a significant amount of winnings in this game, you have to be a jack of all trades in the sense that you need to cap a game from multiple angles...not just stats, not just match ups, not just the fix, not just the situation, all of it.  If not, in the end, you will be a 50% capper losing juice and vegas will be laughing all the way to the bank.  Both books and bettors have the same goal, to make money.  The difference is, books can do it by winning <50% of the time while bettors need to hit >50%.  books absolutely don't care if stats guy wins 50/50 or if match up guy wins 50/50.

    With that said, sure, we could all be profitable by hitting 53% of our bets...but why hit 53 when you could hit 55?  60?  65?  Shouldn't we all be trying to be the best capper possible to make the most amount of money?  You can't do that by refusing to see what's in front of you.  Today's Jets/Buff game was a prime example.  There was almost NOTHING that said Buff would win.  The motivation, match ups and stats were not in their favor...yet they still won.  Sure, Summa is still posting a nice profitable record this year, but imagine if he could have avoided those 5-10 loses this season that he just shouldn't have bet because the line told him otherwise, regardless of what the capping told him.  His record would be sparkling.
     
    theclaw
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 7:59 AM ET #20

    Well said Suma .........

    My father taught me a very valuable lesson when I was a young boy, he said, son you will run into alot of dumb people in the world, they will be too dumb to know they are dumb, you can not reason with them.
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    Well said Suma .........

    My father taught me a very valuable lesson when I was a young boy, he said, son you will run into alot of dumb people in the world, they will be too dumb to know they are dumb, you can not reason with them.
     
    sicknesscity
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 8:09 AM ET #21

    I believe you need to have a good understanding of how teams approach football strategy and the way each team is going to attack a particular opponent.  A lot of people ignore over/unders claiming they're difficult to pinpoint or are too unpredictable.  They may be hard to get right but I believe there's a strong correlation with the over/under and the realistic prospect of a team covering the spread. 

    I was only 132-117-5 for over/unders this year on Covers, good for 53%.  I went 140-112-3 for ATS on Covers, good for 55%.  Although I wasn't as good at over/unders, I feel that they helped me overall when it came to picking for the season.  Also, you can't ignore that some of these games come down to the last possession, which isn't something you can really cap and ends up being random/lucky.

    Naesiy makes a good point.  There are lines that appear strange or incongruous with what basic perception would dictate.  I'm probably not as good at him as spotting them but occasionally I can tell if a line looks fishy.
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    I believe you need to have a good understanding of how teams approach football strategy and the way each team is going to attack a particular opponent.  A lot of people ignore over/unders claiming they're difficult to pinpoint or are too unpredictable.  They may be hard to get right but I believe there's a strong correlation with the over/under and the realistic prospect of a team covering the spread. 

    I was only 132-117-5 for over/unders this year on Covers, good for 53%.  I went 140-112-3 for ATS on Covers, good for 55%.  Although I wasn't as good at over/unders, I feel that they helped me overall when it came to picking for the season.  Also, you can't ignore that some of these games come down to the last possession, which isn't something you can really cap and ends up being random/lucky.

    Naesiy makes a good point.  There are lines that appear strange or incongruous with what basic perception would dictate.  I'm probably not as good at him as spotting them but occasionally I can tell if a line looks fishy.
     
    theclaw
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    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 8:14 AM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true


    When your betting the line here is what your doing. And granted it can work, but it's not about Vegas fixing the game or knowing who will win or a script.

    Books must consider known spots where sharps and successful touts who advise clients, will come in and many times with much bigger money, because the sharps and touts  know things the ave joe does not, the book sets a line that appears off by the ave joe so the ave joe thinks the book is setting a trap line but the book is doing nothing more then taking know spots the sharps and touts  put big money on and putting out an adjusted line that the ave joe does not understand.

    My bounce factor which has done very well over the years posted here on the site was developed off these know spots that sharps and touts  love to put up big money.

    In fact I developed it off info I got from  reading free info that's available to anyone, then I did additional research into it and found a way to make it better.

    Many of the things I have that have been successful over the years was developed off such free info from sharps and touts.

    In many of the games my bounce factor makes a play the lines appear off to many here on the site, they question why this line ?

    This is how I know it's true, because I follow the many here who question and don't understand why this line, and I see people say it's a trap line, obviously they don't understand the spot.

    So basically all your doing by playing the line is backing spots know sharps and touts would back.




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    Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:

    Hard to have a discussion regarding this Summa

    I will never change your mind

    and You will never change my mind

    the Vikings game was a great example of capping the line not the game.
    But you will find excuses of why the Vikings were the correct play even though what the public saw was GREAT VALUE with the home team Packers playing for a division title at only -3 

    Public got smashed upside their faces here in that spot and you know it.
    it was a TRAP game thru and thru
    the Line was the indicator that something was very shady and it was,

    But go ahead and give me what I consider your flawed attempt at why the Vikings were the right side according to handicapping

    In my opinion
    the line was begging you to take the Pack and so many did
    This is how the Books make money 
    When they set a line that looks too good to be true


    When your betting the line here is what your doing. And granted it can work, but it's not about Vegas fixing the game or knowing who will win or a script.

    Books must consider known spots where sharps and successful touts who advise clients, will come in and many times with much bigger money, because the sharps and touts  know things the ave joe does not, the book sets a line that appears off by the ave joe so the ave joe thinks the book is setting a trap line but the book is doing nothing more then taking know spots the sharps and touts  put big money on and putting out an adjusted line that the ave joe does not understand.

    My bounce factor which has done very well over the years posted here on the site was developed off these know spots that sharps and touts  love to put up big money.

    In fact I developed it off info I got from  reading free info that's available to anyone, then I did additional research into it and found a way to make it better.

    Many of the things I have that have been successful over the years was developed off such free info from sharps and touts.

    In many of the games my bounce factor makes a play the lines appear off to many here on the site, they question why this line ?

    This is how I know it's true, because I follow the many here who question and don't understand why this line, and I see people say it's a trap line, obviously they don't understand the spot.

    So basically all your doing by playing the line is backing spots know sharps and touts would back.




     
    SharpShooter8
    SharpShooter8
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2006
    Posts: 949
    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 9:27 AM ET #23

    Suuma....I enjoy every post and all the research.  You invest your money only after you have researched all angles.  There is many around here that play handicapping bingo based on gut, public play, etc.

    Happy New Year to you.  I KNOW 2016 will be profitable for you.  I would contribute more to the research and commentary but, I am knee deep in family, coaching, and a 55 hours a week job.

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    Suuma....I enjoy every post and all the research.  You invest your money only after you have researched all angles.  There is many around here that play handicapping bingo based on gut, public play, etc.

    Happy New Year to you.  I KNOW 2016 will be profitable for you.  I would contribute more to the research and commentary but, I am knee deep in family, coaching, and a 55 hours a week job.

     
    zamigo6
    zamigo6
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2010
    Posts: 13130
    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 10:06 AM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:



    When your betting the line here is what your doing. And granted it can work, but it's not about Vegas fixing the game or knowing who will win or a script.

    Books must consider known spots where sharps and successful touts who advise clients, will come in and many times with much bigger money, because the sharps and touts  know things the ave joe does not, the book sets a line that appears off by the ave joe so the ave joe thinks the book is setting a trap line but the book is doing nothing more then taking know spots the sharps and touts  put big money on and putting out an adjusted line that the ave joe does not understand.

    My bounce factor which has done very well over the years posted here on the site was developed off these know spots that sharps and touts  love to put up big money.

    In fact I developed it off info I got from  reading free info that's available to anyone, then I did additional research into it and found a way to make it better.

    Many of the things I have that have been successful over the years was developed off such free info from sharps and touts.

    In many of the games my bounce factor makes a play the lines appear off to many here on the site, they question why this line ?

    This is how I know it's true, because I follow the many here who question and don't understand why this line, and I see people say it's a trap line, obviously they don't understand the spot.

    So basically all your doing by playing the line is backing spots know sharps and touts would back.






    The line does contain lots of information based on your ability to understand it. If you just fade what you think the public is on (which often isn't who you think it is) then you it's not much of a winning recipe. I'm not taking sides here I've seen succesful bettors who read lines and succesful bettors who cap games, and I've seen a lot more losers in both of those corners...
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    Quote Originally Posted by theclaw:



    When your betting the line here is what your doing. And granted it can work, but it's not about Vegas fixing the game or knowing who will win or a script.

    Books must consider known spots where sharps and successful touts who advise clients, will come in and many times with much bigger money, because the sharps and touts  know things the ave joe does not, the book sets a line that appears off by the ave joe so the ave joe thinks the book is setting a trap line but the book is doing nothing more then taking know spots the sharps and touts  put big money on and putting out an adjusted line that the ave joe does not understand.

    My bounce factor which has done very well over the years posted here on the site was developed off these know spots that sharps and touts  love to put up big money.

    In fact I developed it off info I got from  reading free info that's available to anyone, then I did additional research into it and found a way to make it better.

    Many of the things I have that have been successful over the years was developed off such free info from sharps and touts.

    In many of the games my bounce factor makes a play the lines appear off to many here on the site, they question why this line ?

    This is how I know it's true, because I follow the many here who question and don't understand why this line, and I see people say it's a trap line, obviously they don't understand the spot.

    So basically all your doing by playing the line is backing spots know sharps and touts would back.






    The line does contain lots of information based on your ability to understand it. If you just fade what you think the public is on (which often isn't who you think it is) then you it's not much of a winning recipe. I'm not taking sides here I've seen succesful bettors who read lines and succesful bettors who cap games, and I've seen a lot more losers in both of those corners...
     
     
    xman3737
    xman3737
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Apr, 2014
    Posts: 307
    Posted: Jan. 4, 2016 - 10:25 AM ET #25

    I don't track my record and I don't bet now quantities of money often but here is my take. someone mentioned sway in this blog as oppose to fix does this happen? Absolutely and small calls here and there can certainly sway a game. So the answer is yes it's swayed and yes good capping in the long run can pay off handsomely but let's face it a small return on your investment when you really look at the money you made. They have already caught a NBA ref so let's not discuss whether corruption exists within games. I try to avoid both Sunday and Monday night football and this alone will help you not get fucked as much. I'm more of an NBA capper and o didn't want to bet football but I clicked on the NBA lines and if was slim picking first quarter lines the Miami game didn't even come up. It was as if subliminally they want you to bet what every one is watching Sunday night football. In conclusion both exist but you have to cap well to have a chance at winning be very diligent and careful I typed this with my phone please excuse grammatical mistakes.
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    I don't track my record and I don't bet now quantities of money often but here is my take. someone mentioned sway in this blog as oppose to fix does this happen? Absolutely and small calls here and there can certainly sway a game. So the answer is yes it's swayed and yes good capping in the long run can pay off handsomely but let's face it a small return on your investment when you really look at the money you made. They have already caught a NBA ref so let's not discuss whether corruption exists within games. I try to avoid both Sunday and Monday night football and this alone will help you not get fucked as much. I'm more of an NBA capper and o didn't want to bet football but I clicked on the NBA lines and if was slim picking first quarter lines the Miami game didn't even come up. It was as if subliminally they want you to bet what every one is watching Sunday night football. In conclusion both exist but you have to cap well to have a chance at winning be very diligent and careful I typed this with my phone please excuse grammatical mistakes.
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