Some very interesting comments here about Kobe from Brian Shaw, who is a Lakers assistant coach.
Q: What's his response when you tell him other guys were open?
Shaw:
He sees it, and he'll say to guys, "I'll get you on that next time," or
whatever. And sometimes he will, and sometimes he won't. There's a
trust that we have that he's going to-- we know that he's trying to win
the game. There are a lot of times when Phil will call a
play, but he'll have a feel for what's going on out on the floor and
say, "No, no no. I already got something going." Phil trusts that,
(and will let him do it). Now if (Jackson) wants to override it he
will, but a lot of times now if Kobe's feeling something or seeing the
way (things are going), he's the one out there dealing with it, so Phil
kind of lets him go with it.
10 years ago, it wouldn't have
been that way. It would have been Phil's way or no way. But that's a
mutual respect that they have and have grown to work together with.
0
Some very interesting comments here about Kobe from Brian Shaw, who is a Lakers assistant coach.
Q: What's his response when you tell him other guys were open?
Shaw:
He sees it, and he'll say to guys, "I'll get you on that next time," or
whatever. And sometimes he will, and sometimes he won't. There's a
trust that we have that he's going to-- we know that he's trying to win
the game. There are a lot of times when Phil will call a
play, but he'll have a feel for what's going on out on the floor and
say, "No, no no. I already got something going." Phil trusts that,
(and will let him do it). Now if (Jackson) wants to override it he
will, but a lot of times now if Kobe's feeling something or seeing the
way (things are going), he's the one out there dealing with it, so Phil
kind of lets him go with it.
10 years ago, it wouldn't have
been that way. It would have been Phil's way or no way. But that's a
mutual respect that they have and have grown to work together with.
Q:
Win or lose, the focus is always on Kobe. He's brilliant, he shoots
too much, he was tired, he showed his greatness, whatever. As a team
and a staff, how do you guys keep that aspect of "all Kobe all the
time" out of it? So things don't get overwhelmed?
Q:
Win or lose, the focus is always on Kobe. He's brilliant, he shoots
too much, he was tired, he showed his greatness, whatever. As a team
and a staff, how do you guys keep that aspect of "all Kobe all the
time" out of it? So things don't get overwhelmed?
Shaw:
Pau doesn't have the demeanor. He's a nice guy. Shaq might have been
like, "Give me the ball!" And Kobe would (say), "Give me the ball!"
If you give it to Shaq, it's okay. If you give it to Pau and it
doesn't work out then Kobe might get on you. The players have to work
that out."
0
Q: Is Pau not on that same level?
Shaw:
Pau doesn't have the demeanor. He's a nice guy. Shaq might have been
like, "Give me the ball!" And Kobe would (say), "Give me the ball!"
If you give it to Shaq, it's okay. If you give it to Pau and it
doesn't work out then Kobe might get on you. The players have to work
that out."
Q: As a coaching staff, do you guys have a process and is there a learning curve in teaching guys how to play with him?
Shaw:
(laughs) You know, we haven't figured that out yet. And I say that
because you can tell guys, and we tell them, start the offense away
from him. Use this side of the court, see your options over here, and
if nothing is there now reverse it to him. The shot clock is coming
down, now let him do his thing.
But when he's out there on the
floor and he's doing his little signals asking for the ball, there's
kind of a pecking order that happens out there on the court. They
don't want to piss him off, and they want to please the coaching staff
as well. But he's the closest one out there to them on the floor, so a
lot of times they'll force the ball in with three people around (Kobe)
instead of making the right play. Fish (Derek Fisher) will do the
right thing, but Fish has played the same amount of years, has been
through all the wars with him. Some of the younger guys, they just
want to make (Kobe) happy.
When I played, we always had a
second. There were two dominant players. So if we went away from Kobe
and threw it into Shaq, what can he say? Now, who is that guy who is
on the same level that Kobe's on, that if they make a play over here to
Lamar (Odom) and Kobe gets mad then they're going to play more to that
because nobody's on that same level.
Kobe: pass me the fucking ball you person
Sasha: whatever you say master
0
Q: As a coaching staff, do you guys have a process and is there a learning curve in teaching guys how to play with him?
Shaw:
(laughs) You know, we haven't figured that out yet. And I say that
because you can tell guys, and we tell them, start the offense away
from him. Use this side of the court, see your options over here, and
if nothing is there now reverse it to him. The shot clock is coming
down, now let him do his thing.
But when he's out there on the
floor and he's doing his little signals asking for the ball, there's
kind of a pecking order that happens out there on the court. They
don't want to piss him off, and they want to please the coaching staff
as well. But he's the closest one out there to them on the floor, so a
lot of times they'll force the ball in with three people around (Kobe)
instead of making the right play. Fish (Derek Fisher) will do the
right thing, but Fish has played the same amount of years, has been
through all the wars with him. Some of the younger guys, they just
want to make (Kobe) happy.
When I played, we always had a
second. There were two dominant players. So if we went away from Kobe
and threw it into Shaq, what can he say? Now, who is that guy who is
on the same level that Kobe's on, that if they make a play over here to
Lamar (Odom) and Kobe gets mad then they're going to play more to that
because nobody's on that same level.
Cliff Notes: Kobe likes doing things his way and has issues trusting his teammates. Of course we already knew all this but it's interesting when somebody so close to him comes out and says it.
0
Cliff Notes: Kobe likes doing things his way and has issues trusting his teammates. Of course we already knew all this but it's interesting when somebody so close to him comes out and says it.
So pretty much from this account of what Kobe is like -- from someone who is around and deals with him day-in, day-out -- he seems highly unlikely to heavily defer to the rest of his teammates tonight, regardless of whether or not it's in the best interest of the team, which clearly it is. Kobe seems incapable of entrusting other talanted players, even if they're on an all-star level like Gasol. And in return they're scared shitless to screw up and piss him off. Great team dynamic on the Lakers.
0
So pretty much from this account of what Kobe is like -- from someone who is around and deals with him day-in, day-out -- he seems highly unlikely to heavily defer to the rest of his teammates tonight, regardless of whether or not it's in the best interest of the team, which clearly it is. Kobe seems incapable of entrusting other talanted players, even if they're on an all-star level like Gasol. And in return they're scared shitless to screw up and piss him off. Great team dynamic on the Lakers.
Under. But if I do that a 60 point first quarter is almost guaranteed.
LOL
I was leaning under and LAL ML until reading your post and bators comments in other threads. Even if Orlando wins (which NBA wants) still leaves door open for LA to win game 5 and close it out in game 6.
Gonna roll with Orl ML and Under
0
Quote Originally Posted by ValueforRent:
Under. But if I do that a 60 point first quarter is almost guaranteed.
LOL
I was leaning under and LAL ML until reading your post and bators comments in other threads. Even if Orlando wins (which NBA wants) still leaves door open for LA to win game 5 and close it out in game 6.
haven't been on the site for awhile but i remember always reading your writeups Value....... and i believe they do have a lot of VALUE, lol....... i also will believe in MAGIC ML!!! WITH YOU SIR!!! LETS GO!!!!!!!!
0
haven't been on the site for awhile but i remember always reading your writeups Value....... and i believe they do have a lot of VALUE, lol....... i also will believe in MAGIC ML!!! WITH YOU SIR!!! LETS GO!!!!!!!!
I actually see this panning out similar to Game 5 against the Nuggets (also after a loss) where Kobe indeed does trust his teammates and limits his FG attempts.
I think last 4th quarter is weighing on his mind and he will make a stronger attempt not only to get the team more involved but to stay fresher for the closing minutes. Best way to do that is to take less shots through the first 3 quarters.
Lookin for Gasol (who can get his on on Howard if he wants) to get more shots as a result and have a big one for the Lakeshow.
Lakers ML in a lower scoring game, but BOL to you Value.
0
I actually see this panning out similar to Game 5 against the Nuggets (also after a loss) where Kobe indeed does trust his teammates and limits his FG attempts.
I think last 4th quarter is weighing on his mind and he will make a stronger attempt not only to get the team more involved but to stay fresher for the closing minutes. Best way to do that is to take less shots through the first 3 quarters.
Lookin for Gasol (who can get his on on Howard if he wants) to get more shots as a result and have a big one for the Lakeshow.
Lakers ML in a lower scoring game, but BOL to you Value.
So pretty much from this account of what Kobe is like -- from someone who is around and deals with him day-in, day-out -- he seems highly unlikely to heavily defer to the rest of his teammates tonight, regardless of whether or not it's in the best interest of the team, which clearly it is. Kobe seems incapable of entrusting other talanted players, even if they're on an all-star level like Gasol. And in return they're scared shitless to screw up and piss him off. Great team dynamic on the Lakers.
M! V! P!
M! V! P!
Oh wait, maybe not.
Hey VFR, who's better than you?
0
Quote Originally Posted by ValueforRent:
So pretty much from this account of what Kobe is like -- from someone who is around and deals with him day-in, day-out -- he seems highly unlikely to heavily defer to the rest of his teammates tonight, regardless of whether or not it's in the best interest of the team, which clearly it is. Kobe seems incapable of entrusting other talanted players, even if they're on an all-star level like Gasol. And in return they're scared shitless to screw up and piss him off. Great team dynamic on the Lakers.
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
0
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
Some very interesting comments here about Kobe from Brian Shaw, who is a Lakers assistant coach.
Q: What's his response when you tell him other guys were open?
Shaw: He sees it, and he'll say to guys, "I'll get you on that next time," or whatever. And sometimes he will, and sometimes he won't. There's a trust that we have that he's going to-- we know that he's trying to win the game. There are a lot of times when Phil will call a play, but he'll have a feel for what's going on out on the floor and say, "No, no no. I already got something going." Phil trusts that, (and will let him do it). Now if (Jackson) wants to override it he will, but a lot of times now if Kobe's feeling something or seeing the way (things are going), he's the one out there dealing with it, so Phil kind of lets him go with it.
10 years ago, it wouldn't have been that way. It would have been Phil's way or no way. But that's a mutual respect that they have and have grown to work together with.
In 1999, Phil was out of basketball. Let's go 12 years back. In 1997, there's no way Phil would tell Michael what to do. In the 4Q, Michael controlled the rock, and no one else was going to tell him what to do.
Of course, he had Kerr, Kukoc, Pippen and other reliable mid-range to 3-point shooters. So again, the idea of Phil cowtowing to Kobe is a bit much.
0
Quote Originally Posted by ValueforRent:
Some very interesting comments here about Kobe from Brian Shaw, who is a Lakers assistant coach.
Q: What's his response when you tell him other guys were open?
Shaw: He sees it, and he'll say to guys, "I'll get you on that next time," or whatever. And sometimes he will, and sometimes he won't. There's a trust that we have that he's going to-- we know that he's trying to win the game. There are a lot of times when Phil will call a play, but he'll have a feel for what's going on out on the floor and say, "No, no no. I already got something going." Phil trusts that, (and will let him do it). Now if (Jackson) wants to override it he will, but a lot of times now if Kobe's feeling something or seeing the way (things are going), he's the one out there dealing with it, so Phil kind of lets him go with it.
10 years ago, it wouldn't have been that way. It would have been Phil's way or no way. But that's a mutual respect that they have and have grown to work together with.
In 1999, Phil was out of basketball. Let's go 12 years back. In 1997, there's no way Phil would tell Michael what to do. In the 4Q, Michael controlled the rock, and no one else was going to tell him what to do.
Of course, he had Kerr, Kukoc, Pippen and other reliable mid-range to 3-point shooters. So again, the idea of Phil cowtowing to Kobe is a bit much.
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
Not true. They're just a very hard team to root for IMO. But I'll never let that affect my wagering decisions. Would it really hurt Kobe though to smile like once a game? It'd be nice if he went about his journey with a little more joy.
0
Quote Originally Posted by composite:
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
Not true. They're just a very hard team to root for IMO. But I'll never let that affect my wagering decisions. Would it really hurt Kobe though to smile like once a game? It'd be nice if he went about his journey with a little more joy.
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
Kobe is over the top though. Lebron has that approachability and likability factor Kobe sorely lacks. Kobe's teammates don't gravitate towards him. When Cleveland's supporting cast was really struggling against the Magic, you could see Lebron was clearly frustrated. But he never took it out on his teammates. He remained positive, supportive and upbeat until the very end even when the writing was clearly on the wall. Kobe is ready to kill any of these guys if they mess up, and they know it. That doesn't mean they can't win, but he's not making things any easier on them. The closer and dicier things get, the more Kobe will want to do things his way --1-on-1 forays, isolations, dominating the ball-- even if that isn't in the best interest of the team. I'll put it this way, he can live with himself missing a game winning shot. I don't think he can live with Odom, Walton or Ariza doing the same thing.
0
Quote Originally Posted by composite:
Great write-up as usual. As a HUGE Laker fan. I really, really hope you're wrong. I'm encouraged by a couple of things.
1. You're on the ML, not -2. I take it you see this as a close game where you may need the 1 or 2.
2. You're a Laker Hater. The Shaw article is a bit over the top. It's no different than what MJ did @ Chicago, LeBron's doing @ Cleveland, or Wade does @ Miami. Charismatic, superstar basketball players always dominate the game. Kobe's no different.
Heck, at least Kobe never punched any of his teammates like MJ once did. MJ never, ever had a Shaq to balance him and things worked out just fine. LeBron would be playing in the NBA Finals for the 2nd time if Orlando weren't there (and even you agreed Cleveland was the better team)
But hey, I might just be rationalizing too, b/c I really hope to God as a huge Laker fan that you're wrong and the Lakers take this series.
Kobe is over the top though. Lebron has that approachability and likability factor Kobe sorely lacks. Kobe's teammates don't gravitate towards him. When Cleveland's supporting cast was really struggling against the Magic, you could see Lebron was clearly frustrated. But he never took it out on his teammates. He remained positive, supportive and upbeat until the very end even when the writing was clearly on the wall. Kobe is ready to kill any of these guys if they mess up, and they know it. That doesn't mean they can't win, but he's not making things any easier on them. The closer and dicier things get, the more Kobe will want to do things his way --1-on-1 forays, isolations, dominating the ball-- even if that isn't in the best interest of the team. I'll put it this way, he can live with himself missing a game winning shot. I don't think he can live with Odom, Walton or Ariza doing the same thing.
Im from L.A. and i cant stand all this Kobe bryant talk. I hope the lakers lose the series so I can no for sure it was shaq who got them those championships a few years back.
0
Im from L.A. and i cant stand all this Kobe bryant talk. I hope the lakers lose the series so I can no for sure it was shaq who got them those championships a few years back.
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