Not even a debate anymore. Kobe best player in the world
It's not a debate when you refuse to be logical from the very beginning.
I post on insidehoops and it's hilarious to see how little a lot of posters here know about the game of basketball, both current AND its history; you specifically.
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Quote Originally Posted by DaddysHome:
Not even a debate anymore. Kobe best player in the world
It's not a debate when you refuse to be logical from the very beginning.
I post on insidehoops and it's hilarious to see how little a lot of posters here know about the game of basketball, both current AND its history; you specifically.
Jordan? he holds 21 in the regular season, 21 in the playoffs, 14 in the finals.
In what way shape or form is Kobe better than Jordan let alone, Magic/Russell/Kareem
And you left off MJ has
5 regular season MVPs
3 steals titles
2 gold medals
college national championship
hit game winner to win college title at age 18
hit game winners to win nba titles
had winning assist to win nba titles
2 time slam dunk champion
MJ was voted best/top athlete of the past 100 years
(Kobe was not even athlete of the decade.....that went to Tiger Woods...Roger Federer....Michael Phelps...Lance Armstrong.....Tom Brady/Peyton Manning).....how can a player that is not even athlete of the decade....during the best decade of his career now be better than MJ....who is the best athlete of the past 100 years of all sports? Simply is not logical.
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Quote Originally Posted by fuloser:
Are you retarded?
6 Finals MVPS to 2
1 DPOY to 0
10 scoring titles to 2
Better stats across the board
More efficient
Better advanced stats
More clutch
Better playoff performances
Better finals performances
Kobe holds 2 records, not including youngest to.
Jordan? he holds 21 in the regular season, 21 in the playoffs, 14 in the finals.
In what way shape or form is Kobe better than Jordan let alone, Magic/Russell/Kareem
And you left off MJ has
5 regular season MVPs
3 steals titles
2 gold medals
college national championship
hit game winner to win college title at age 18
hit game winners to win nba titles
had winning assist to win nba titles
2 time slam dunk champion
MJ was voted best/top athlete of the past 100 years
(Kobe was not even athlete of the decade.....that went to Tiger Woods...Roger Federer....Michael Phelps...Lance Armstrong.....Tom Brady/Peyton Manning).....how can a player that is not even athlete of the decade....during the best decade of his career now be better than MJ....who is the best athlete of the past 100 years of all sports? Simply is not logical.
Michael Jordan > Kobe Bryant >>>>>>>>>> LeBron James
Agreed....but one guy's [MJ] career is over....another one [Kobe] will end in next 4 or 5 years and the other [LBJ] still has 10 years left assuming everyone stops playing at age 35.
Then and only then can we assess Titles & MVPs won, Career points, assists, steals, rebounds and blocks, etc..etc..etc..and "likeability" will not be a criteria to measure greatness once a players career is over --- it will be about achievement and performance and a critique of one's numbers & titles and where he falls on the list of the all time greats.
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Quote Originally Posted by DaddysHome:
Michael Jordan > Kobe Bryant >>>>>>>>>> LeBron James
Agreed....but one guy's [MJ] career is over....another one [Kobe] will end in next 4 or 5 years and the other [LBJ] still has 10 years left assuming everyone stops playing at age 35.
Then and only then can we assess Titles & MVPs won, Career points, assists, steals, rebounds and blocks, etc..etc..etc..and "likeability" will not be a criteria to measure greatness once a players career is over --- it will be about achievement and performance and a critique of one's numbers & titles and where he falls on the list of the all time greats.
It's really sad that we look solely to individual stats to determine how great a player is.
Lebron has the ball in his hands every play. There are tons of guys who could put up high stats if that was the strategy of the team.
He is not a winner. He is pure hollywood, a quitter and already wants to shorten practices.
Some play the game to win, and some play for show. He is the latter.
Funny thing is, Bryant usage % is in line, and even greater in some seasons, than LeBrons.
Just goes to show that the stans will say anything to say that Bryant is superior when the reality is that James will always be a better player than Bryant.
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Quote Originally Posted by MLBguru:
It's really sad that we look solely to individual stats to determine how great a player is.
Lebron has the ball in his hands every play. There are tons of guys who could put up high stats if that was the strategy of the team.
He is not a winner. He is pure hollywood, a quitter and already wants to shorten practices.
Some play the game to win, and some play for show. He is the latter.
Funny thing is, Bryant usage % is in line, and even greater in some seasons, than LeBrons.
Just goes to show that the stans will say anything to say that Bryant is superior when the reality is that James will always be a better player than Bryant.
It wasn't a point made to show Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe has the ball in his hands all the time as well.
The point is stats can be misleading.
Its laughable to say Lebron is better. Kobe has made and led his team to 5 championships. You can see in his eyes how bad he wants to win....and he competes like a true great. Lebron is always about the camera and he quits when the going gets tough.
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It wasn't a point made to show Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe has the ball in his hands all the time as well.
The point is stats can be misleading.
Its laughable to say Lebron is better. Kobe has made and led his team to 5 championships. You can see in his eyes how bad he wants to win....and he competes like a true great. Lebron is always about the camera and he quits when the going gets tough.
Teams win titles not individuals. LBJ did not have the cast that he now has with Miami...so time will tell.
But focusing on Kobe, when Shaq left Kobe had the same determinationwith that team [smush parker...kwame brown.......radmonovich..etc..etc...] that he has today.
Matter of fact, we saw a Kobe Bryant that scored 81 points ina game and I think had 6, 7 8 or was it 10 games in a row where he got 40 ppgs.
But guess what, HE GOT NO RING. Matter of fact, they kept getting bounced from the playoffs in the first round of the playoffs.
So, why is it that the great Kobe is not blamed for that and is seen as a winner.....and LBJ not able to get the Caveliers "doomed" franchise to a ring is seen as "not clutch"?
The answer is ---- we have a good old fashioned double standard .
When Kobe lost "post shaq - pre gasol" all was okay.....but they were no where near a threat to win it all. Enter all star teammate Gasol....and Kobe gets the credit as if he single-handedly (determination) is getting it done.
LBJ cannot win alone --- just like Kobe couldn't win alone.
The rings will be coming LBJ was -- just like they came Kobe way --- once you get the right HELP.
Now after the rings have been acquired.....you mean to tell me NBA players are measured based on some abstract criteria like
determination.....heart...guts......when we clearly have criteria to measure these guys. (pts, rebs, assts, steals, blocks and turnovers)
That's society for you --- change the rules to benefit the one we like.
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Guys I couldn't disagree more.
Teams win titles not individuals. LBJ did not have the cast that he now has with Miami...so time will tell.
But focusing on Kobe, when Shaq left Kobe had the same determinationwith that team [smush parker...kwame brown.......radmonovich..etc..etc...] that he has today.
Matter of fact, we saw a Kobe Bryant that scored 81 points ina game and I think had 6, 7 8 or was it 10 games in a row where he got 40 ppgs.
But guess what, HE GOT NO RING. Matter of fact, they kept getting bounced from the playoffs in the first round of the playoffs.
So, why is it that the great Kobe is not blamed for that and is seen as a winner.....and LBJ not able to get the Caveliers "doomed" franchise to a ring is seen as "not clutch"?
The answer is ---- we have a good old fashioned double standard .
When Kobe lost "post shaq - pre gasol" all was okay.....but they were no where near a threat to win it all. Enter all star teammate Gasol....and Kobe gets the credit as if he single-handedly (determination) is getting it done.
LBJ cannot win alone --- just like Kobe couldn't win alone.
The rings will be coming LBJ was -- just like they came Kobe way --- once you get the right HELP.
Now after the rings have been acquired.....you mean to tell me NBA players are measured based on some abstract criteria like
determination.....heart...guts......when we clearly have criteria to measure these guys. (pts, rebs, assts, steals, blocks and turnovers)
That's society for you --- change the rules to benefit the one we like.
There is no double standard.....nobody expects Kobe to win every single year, nor did they with MJ. So the fact he goes seasons without winning is moot.
Lebron has been in the league 7 years with nothing to show for it except personal accolades.
You contradict yourself.
You say its a team game but then say a player should be judged solely on his personal stats.
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There is no double standard.....nobody expects Kobe to win every single year, nor did they with MJ. So the fact he goes seasons without winning is moot.
Lebron has been in the league 7 years with nothing to show for it except personal accolades.
You contradict yourself.
You say its a team game but then say a player should be judged solely on his personal stats.
It wasn't a point made to show Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe has the ball in his hands all the time as well.
The point is stats can be misleading.
Its laughable to say Lebron is better. Kobe has made and led his team to 5 championships. You can see in his eyes how bad he wants to win....and he competes like a true great. Lebron is always about the camera and he quits when the going gets tough.
Stats are NOT misleading when evaluating individual players against one another and the the stats show that LeBron has widened the gap between himself and any player currently in the NBA.
The kid is just too good. As far as him not having help, we'll see what happens this year.
The Kobe stans claimed LeBron had a group a teammates good enough to win the title last year. The LeBron stans claim LeBron had no help and with help, he will win.
Well now, both of those theories are in play this year.
We'll see who comes closer to being right.
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Quote Originally Posted by MLBguru:
It wasn't a point made to show Kobe is better than Lebron. Kobe has the ball in his hands all the time as well.
The point is stats can be misleading.
Its laughable to say Lebron is better. Kobe has made and led his team to 5 championships. You can see in his eyes how bad he wants to win....and he competes like a true great. Lebron is always about the camera and he quits when the going gets tough.
Stats are NOT misleading when evaluating individual players against one another and the the stats show that LeBron has widened the gap between himself and any player currently in the NBA.
The kid is just too good. As far as him not having help, we'll see what happens this year.
The Kobe stans claimed LeBron had a group a teammates good enough to win the title last year. The LeBron stans claim LeBron had no help and with help, he will win.
Well now, both of those theories are in play this year.
your post is subjective. While, IMO, my comments to you guys also appear subjective but wait...I disclose objective measureable criteria in my posts.
Whose team is it? That is subjective....even D Wade himself says this is our house.....I have roommates (Bosh and LBJ)
Acquiring all stars on any team muddies the water.
But sticking with your and others subjective comment.......how can acquiring a two time MVP on a team who also led the league in scoring and finshed second in the scoring race another year and last year finished around 6th or 7th int the LEAGUE in assists ----how can that guy be considered a sidekick?
Answer according to this thread and i presume non-LBJ fans: in this post is:
Becuase he joined the other team where an all star was already on the roster.
That criteria imo is not valid. I think they will be 1 and 1a and then on other nights be 1a and 1;
But make no mistake about it...LBJ has the superior game and stats simply b/c he is too big...too fast...too strong and cannot be guarded. Wade is a mismatch too.....don't get me wrong.
I really think LBJ will average 10 assists next season with 25 ppgs and you guys are calling that a side-kick. Unreal.
I will let this be my last post in this thread. Maybe the media needs to define what a sidekick is?
Is Rondo still a sidekick on Boston? I don't think so....but guess what, he is not their leading scorer and the guy to me cannot even shoot......their is much more to leadership than scoring the ball......Rondo RUNS the team and is great penetrator and many folks say in the media...that it is Rondo's team or they are the Big 4.........and if that criteria is so asessing Rondo.....then how in the world can people say so defintively w/o any objective measurement that Wade is the superior player?
Again, simply b/c someone was there 1st IMO is not reason enough to say everyone fall behind me......and my best witness and evidence on this is D Wade himself......he appropriately so has been saying the right stuff b/c even he knows that his equal has arrived in town...someone capable of leading the team whether he is on the floor or not.
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MLBguru,
your post is subjective. While, IMO, my comments to you guys also appear subjective but wait...I disclose objective measureable criteria in my posts.
Whose team is it? That is subjective....even D Wade himself says this is our house.....I have roommates (Bosh and LBJ)
Acquiring all stars on any team muddies the water.
But sticking with your and others subjective comment.......how can acquiring a two time MVP on a team who also led the league in scoring and finshed second in the scoring race another year and last year finished around 6th or 7th int the LEAGUE in assists ----how can that guy be considered a sidekick?
Answer according to this thread and i presume non-LBJ fans: in this post is:
Becuase he joined the other team where an all star was already on the roster.
That criteria imo is not valid. I think they will be 1 and 1a and then on other nights be 1a and 1;
But make no mistake about it...LBJ has the superior game and stats simply b/c he is too big...too fast...too strong and cannot be guarded. Wade is a mismatch too.....don't get me wrong.
I really think LBJ will average 10 assists next season with 25 ppgs and you guys are calling that a side-kick. Unreal.
I will let this be my last post in this thread. Maybe the media needs to define what a sidekick is?
Is Rondo still a sidekick on Boston? I don't think so....but guess what, he is not their leading scorer and the guy to me cannot even shoot......their is much more to leadership than scoring the ball......Rondo RUNS the team and is great penetrator and many folks say in the media...that it is Rondo's team or they are the Big 4.........and if that criteria is so asessing Rondo.....then how in the world can people say so defintively w/o any objective measurement that Wade is the superior player?
Again, simply b/c someone was there 1st IMO is not reason enough to say everyone fall behind me......and my best witness and evidence on this is D Wade himself......he appropriately so has been saying the right stuff b/c even he knows that his equal has arrived in town...someone capable of leading the team whether he is on the floor or not.
They're not in play, because it's DWades team, not Lebrons. Plus they are in different points of their careers.
It will be Wade who gets the 'help' he needs.
LeBron will be the best player on the Heat and will be the one winning MVPs when the team is successful. Of course the theory is in play.
The Cavaliers will be a lottery team and one of the worst in the league. I'm looking forward to seeing how many wins LeBron will be worth, barring a major trade to bring in a legit all star.
Based on last year's team, if everyone returned minus LeBron, I projected the team would go from 61 wins to 29. We'll see how it goes this year.
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Quote Originally Posted by MLBguru:
They're not in play, because it's DWades team, not Lebrons. Plus they are in different points of their careers.
It will be Wade who gets the 'help' he needs.
LeBron will be the best player on the Heat and will be the one winning MVPs when the team is successful. Of course the theory is in play.
The Cavaliers will be a lottery team and one of the worst in the league. I'm looking forward to seeing how many wins LeBron will be worth, barring a major trade to bring in a legit all star.
Based on last year's team, if everyone returned minus LeBron, I projected the team would go from 61 wins to 29. We'll see how it goes this year.
Magic Johnson is counting titles....as is everyone else.
If Kobe was getting eliminated from the playoffs like he was pre-gasol....IMO magic would not have that position.
Magic said that LeBron was the best player in the NBA in 2009 and in 2010 only to change his opinion once the playoffs came along.
He has little credibility when it comes to that topic because he is part owner of the Lakers. The more he hypes up his own players, the more money he makes.
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Quote Originally Posted by ct1016:
Magic Johnson is counting titles....as is everyone else.
If Kobe was getting eliminated from the playoffs like he was pre-gasol....IMO magic would not have that position.
Magic said that LeBron was the best player in the NBA in 2009 and in 2010 only to change his opinion once the playoffs came along.
He has little credibility when it comes to that topic because he is part owner of the Lakers. The more he hypes up his own players, the more money he makes.
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