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    All Forums | NBA Betting Forum

    2012 NBA Finals : Game 4 and a Look Back

    12 Next Last»
    SettleDownSpaz
    tjohnsont
    proguy747
    User432694
    docterd597
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    12 Next Last»
     
    SettleDownSpaz
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 2:05 PM ET #1

    2012 Playoffs: 69-52-3 +291.02 units

    Pending

    Miami Heat win NBA +350 (8 units to win 28.00)

    Wade over Westbrook Series Pts (15 units to win 12.50)

    I wasn't around to post, but only play for Game 3 was DWade over 23 points, which got bailed out by the free throws he hit with 13 seconds left.  It was a push, but he hit both to finish with 25.  This is not included in the record above.

    All I keep reading is how the refs won the game for the Miami Heat and while I accept that there were some questionable calls, the refs did not influence the outcome of this game.  There was a defining 4 minutes and 33 seconds that had an enormous impact on who won Game 3.  It wasn't the only thing that led the Heat to victory, but I'll touch on the others later.  With 4:33 left in the third quarter, the Thunder took a 64-54 lead and seemed in complete control of the game.  What happened next had nothing to do with the officiating and everything to do with the Thunder giving the lead back to the Heat.  When that 4:33 touched 0, the Heat were up by two, outscoring the Thunder by 12 over that span.  Below is the shot selection by the Thunder and Heat in that last 4:33 of the third quarter.  Included is the shooting % of that player on the road within the range of where each shot was taken by OKC.

    Oklahoma City

    Ibaka – missed 19 foot jumper (43% on the road)

    Ibaka – missed 16 foot jumper (43% on the road)

    Sefolosha – missed 25 foot three point jumper (15% on the road)

    Harden – missed 19 foot jumper (35% on the road between 16-20 feet)

    Fisher – missed 9 foot jumper (37% on the road between 7-10 feet)

    Cook – missed 23 foot three point jumper (35% between 23-25 feet)

    Harden – missed 25 foot three point jumper (32% on the road)

    Harden – missed 25 foot three point jumper (32% on the road)

     

    Eight shots in 4 minutes and 33 seconds and everyone that could be questioned.  Sure, Durant and Wetbrook were not in the game, but you have your center shooting jumpers and everyone else hucking three pointers.  The one shot you got inside 10 feet was by the smallest player on the court.  What's interesting is that the Ibaka jumpers were the highest % shot by the Thunder over the 4:33.  Here are the team stats for the last 4:33 and I think it will be glaringly obvious how the Heat took a 2 point lead heading into the 4th quarter

     

    Oklahoma City

    FG: 0-8

    3Pt: 0-4

    FT: 3-7

     

    Miami Heat

    FG: 3-4 (all shots by Wade and Lebron)

    3Pt: 1-1

    FT: 6-6

    The Heat actually got less free throws than the Thunder and both were on threes by Battier and Jones.  Hard to argue those calls and hard to argue those shots.  In fact, you can't argue with any shot the Heat took over the last 4:33 of the third quarter.  And you can argue with every shot the Thunder took.  I get why Durant was on the bench, but Westbrook too?  Brooks got comfortable with a 10pt lead and used it as an opportunity to rest his big guns.  I can't argue with that decision, but he should have had more control over the shot selection of who was out there.  He got nothing for 4 minutes and 33 seconds and the Heat took back control of the game. 

    The refs did not win this game for the Heat.  The Thunder lost this game.  Miami didn't play well at all and they shot miserably from the field.  The difference?  Timely scoring/defense and Lebron and DWade taking 60% of the shots for the Heat.  Durant and Westbrook?  48% of the shots for the Thunder and no more important than the 8 that the other players took in the last 4:33 of the third quarter.

    Back with some Game 4 thoughts in a bit..

     

    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    2012 Playoffs: 69-52-3 +291.02 units

    Pending

    Miami Heat win NBA +350 (8 units to win 28.00)

    Wade over Westbrook Series Pts (15 units to win 12.50)

    I wasn't around to post, but only play for Game 3 was DWade over 23 points, which got bailed out by the free throws he hit with 13 seconds left.  It was a push, but he hit both to finish with 25.  This is not included in the record above.

    All I keep reading is how the refs won the game for the Miami Heat and while I accept that there were some questionable calls, the refs did not influence the outcome of this game.  There was a defining 4 minutes and 33 seconds that had an enormous impact on who won Game 3.  It wasn't the only thing that led the Heat to victory, but I'll touch on the others later.  With 4:33 left in the third quarter, the Thunder took a 64-54 lead and seemed in complete control of the game.  What happened next had nothing to do with the officiating and everything to do with the Thunder giving the lead back to the Heat.  When that 4:33 touched 0, the Heat were up by two, outscoring the Thunder by 12 over that span.  Below is the shot selection by the Thunder and Heat in that last 4:33 of the third quarter.  Included is the shooting % of that player on the road within the range of where each shot was taken by OKC.

    Oklahoma City

    Ibaka – missed 19 foot jumper (43% on the road)

    Ibaka – missed 16 foot jumper (43% on the road)

    Sefolosha – missed 25 foot three point jumper (15% on the road)

    Harden – missed 19 foot jumper (35% on the road between 16-20 feet)

    Fisher – missed 9 foot jumper (37% on the road between 7-10 feet)

    Cook – missed 23 foot three point jumper (35% between 23-25 feet)

    Harden – missed 25 foot three point jumper (32% on the road)

    Harden – missed 25 foot three point jumper (32% on the road)

     

    Eight shots in 4 minutes and 33 seconds and everyone that could be questioned.  Sure, Durant and Wetbrook were not in the game, but you have your center shooting jumpers and everyone else hucking three pointers.  The one shot you got inside 10 feet was by the smallest player on the court.  What's interesting is that the Ibaka jumpers were the highest % shot by the Thunder over the 4:33.  Here are the team stats for the last 4:33 and I think it will be glaringly obvious how the Heat took a 2 point lead heading into the 4th quarter

     

    Oklahoma City

    FG: 0-8

    3Pt: 0-4

    FT: 3-7

     

    Miami Heat

    FG: 3-4 (all shots by Wade and Lebron)

    3Pt: 1-1

    FT: 6-6

    The Heat actually got less free throws than the Thunder and both were on threes by Battier and Jones.  Hard to argue those calls and hard to argue those shots.  In fact, you can't argue with any shot the Heat took over the last 4:33 of the third quarter.  And you can argue with every shot the Thunder took.  I get why Durant was on the bench, but Westbrook too?  Brooks got comfortable with a 10pt lead and used it as an opportunity to rest his big guns.  I can't argue with that decision, but he should have had more control over the shot selection of who was out there.  He got nothing for 4 minutes and 33 seconds and the Heat took back control of the game. 

    The refs did not win this game for the Heat.  The Thunder lost this game.  Miami didn't play well at all and they shot miserably from the field.  The difference?  Timely scoring/defense and Lebron and DWade taking 60% of the shots for the Heat.  Durant and Westbrook?  48% of the shots for the Thunder and no more important than the 8 that the other players took in the last 4:33 of the third quarter.

    Back with some Game 4 thoughts in a bit..

     

     
    tjohnsont
    tjohnsont
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 2:18 PM ET #2

    Great write up but due to the fact Durant was benched with 4 fouls makes a huge difference. 

    Those stats would be completely different with Durant in the game. 

    If Lebron James was on the bench things would go differently for Miami also and their offense will not be running as good also.

    Reply

    Great write up but due to the fact Durant was benched with 4 fouls makes a huge difference. 

    Those stats would be completely different with Durant in the game. 

    If Lebron James was on the bench things would go differently for Miami also and their offense will not be running as good also.

     
    proguy747
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 2:23 PM ET #3

    Stats dont tell the timing of fouls, who there on and how severe it affects the game. You are kidding yourself thinking that refs are not calling breathing on lebron a foul. Everyone gaurding him has been fouling out.

    Just a tip westbrook is going to shoot the ball like crazy next game. Media got to him and oassed up so many open shots.
    Reply
    Stats dont tell the timing of fouls, who there on and how severe it affects the game. You are kidding yourself thinking that refs are not calling breathing on lebron a foul. Everyone gaurding him has been fouling out.

    Just a tip westbrook is going to shoot the ball like crazy next game. Media got to him and oassed up so many open shots.
     
    proguy747
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 2:25 PM ET #4

    Nice run by the way.
    Reply
    Nice run by the way.
     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 5:33 PM ET #5

    tjohnson - I completely agree that if Durant were out there things would have been smoother offensively.  However, championship teams should be able to survive without their MVP in the game. I don't get why Westbrook was not in the game.  If Lebron is on the bench, I am confident the Heat shot selection would have been better than that of the Thunder

    proguy - thanks buddy.  I think the refs influencing the outcome of the game is overhyped.  Sure there are bad calls and missed calls that impact the flow, but I don't get how people can say the Thunder deserved to win Game 3 more than the Heat and it was the refs fault that they lost. 

    Reply

    tjohnson - I completely agree that if Durant were out there things would have been smoother offensively.  However, championship teams should be able to survive without their MVP in the game. I don't get why Westbrook was not in the game.  If Lebron is on the bench, I am confident the Heat shot selection would have been better than that of the Thunder

    proguy - thanks buddy.  I think the refs influencing the outcome of the game is overhyped.  Sure there are bad calls and missed calls that impact the flow, but I don't get how people can say the Thunder deserved to win Game 3 more than the Heat and it was the refs fault that they lost. 

     
    tjohnsont
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 6:01 PM ET #6

    Durant and Westbrook was on the bench.  Miami was playing starters against OKC's 2nd team.  Miami has a pretty good defence at home.  Basically, OKC was out of sync.  They also uncharacteristically fouled the 3 point shooters not once but twice in a span of a minute or so. 

    OKC lost their rhythm once the foul on Durant was called.  If that didn't happen then OKC would have most likely broke the game wide open. 

    These fouls also have a mental affect on defensive players.  Give Lebron an extra few inches or play a little more soft on him and he will probably do what he did in Boston game 6 all day.   Same goes to other players as well.  Fouls affect the game tremendously.

    Reply

    Durant and Westbrook was on the bench.  Miami was playing starters against OKC's 2nd team.  Miami has a pretty good defence at home.  Basically, OKC was out of sync.  They also uncharacteristically fouled the 3 point shooters not once but twice in a span of a minute or so. 

    OKC lost their rhythm once the foul on Durant was called.  If that didn't happen then OKC would have most likely broke the game wide open. 

    These fouls also have a mental affect on defensive players.  Give Lebron an extra few inches or play a little more soft on him and he will probably do what he did in Boston game 6 all day.   Same goes to other players as well.  Fouls affect the game tremendously.

     
    tjohnsont
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 6:06 PM ET #7

    And yes, refs know that a timely foul can affect the momentum and ultimately affect the outcome of the game.  The fourth foul on Durant was huge imo.  Obviously it was since that is when Miami went on their run.

    Reply

    And yes, refs know that a timely foul can affect the momentum and ultimately affect the outcome of the game.  The fourth foul on Durant was huge imo.  Obviously it was since that is when Miami went on their run.

     
    User432694
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 6:48 PM ET #8

    Post Deleted
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    Post Deleted
     
    docterd597
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    Posted: Jun. 18, 2012 - 7:16 PM ET #9

    I love you guys....
    Reply
    I love you guys....
     
    zteinter
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 7:21 AM ET #10

    The 1st and 8th post on this thread are probably the two best posts on covers after game 3. Excellent input
    Reply
    The 1st and 8th post on this thread are probably the two best posts on covers after game 3. Excellent input
     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 1:51 PM ET #11

    mellow - excellent post my friend, I agree completely.  Great stuff

    docterd - right back at you buddy. 

    zteinter - thanks, appreciate that.  So much energy has been placed on pointing the finger at the refs. 

    Reply

    mellow - excellent post my friend, I agree completely.  Great stuff

    docterd - right back at you buddy. 

    zteinter - thanks, appreciate that.  So much energy has been placed on pointing the finger at the refs. 

     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 2:00 PM ET #12

    Chalmers OVER 15.5 Pts, Rebs, Asts (10 units to win 8.70)

    Prior to the last two games, Chalmers went over this number in 9 of the 10 previous games.  This year in the playoffs, he has gone over 14 out of 21 games, yet hard to justify a play on the over given how bad he has played in the last two.  Maybe the Thunder are a bad matchup for Chalmers?  Possible, but he went over this number vs OKC in the regular season and went over in Game 1.  He is getting shot attempts, just so happens that the last two games he is missing everything, going a combined 2-15 FG, 1-6 Three Point and 0-0 FT.  He hasn't taken a foul shot in the last 5 games despite taking 53 in the previous 16 playoff games.  I think he gets back there tonight, so this bet is really just playing the averages.  I think he knocks down at least one triple and gets to the line 4 times.  Right there I'm looking at 6 points leaving only 10 more to go to his this over.  He could bomb again, but if you track back through the season, you'll notice he usually bounces back off a poor shooting game with the exception of the last two.  I'll provide some more stats on this prop in a bit, but wanted to post it up before it runs.

     

    Reply

    Chalmers OVER 15.5 Pts, Rebs, Asts (10 units to win 8.70)

    Prior to the last two games, Chalmers went over this number in 9 of the 10 previous games.  This year in the playoffs, he has gone over 14 out of 21 games, yet hard to justify a play on the over given how bad he has played in the last two.  Maybe the Thunder are a bad matchup for Chalmers?  Possible, but he went over this number vs OKC in the regular season and went over in Game 1.  He is getting shot attempts, just so happens that the last two games he is missing everything, going a combined 2-15 FG, 1-6 Three Point and 0-0 FT.  He hasn't taken a foul shot in the last 5 games despite taking 53 in the previous 16 playoff games.  I think he gets back there tonight, so this bet is really just playing the averages.  I think he knocks down at least one triple and gets to the line 4 times.  Right there I'm looking at 6 points leaving only 10 more to go to his this over.  He could bomb again, but if you track back through the season, you'll notice he usually bounces back off a poor shooting game with the exception of the last two.  I'll provide some more stats on this prop in a bit, but wanted to post it up before it runs.

     

     
    jwarner1313
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 2:16 PM ET #13

    Nice posts on this thread.    I've been sick of all the complaining about on this site about the refs.  They did make some shitty calls but Oklahoma choked last game and had made lots of bad decisions.

    I think they are rattled at this point and dont like whats going on between Westbrook and Brooks.  there's something there that the press arent talking about enough.  I also think Harden and a few other players look exhausted.    I have to roll with Miami tonight and probably Thursday as well as I dont think the Thunder have much left in the tank after Game 3's demorializing loss. 
    Reply
    Nice posts on this thread.    I've been sick of all the complaining about on this site about the refs.  They did make some shitty calls but Oklahoma choked last game and had made lots of bad decisions.

    I think they are rattled at this point and dont like whats going on between Westbrook and Brooks.  there's something there that the press arent talking about enough.  I also think Harden and a few other players look exhausted.    I have to roll with Miami tonight and probably Thursday as well as I dont think the Thunder have much left in the tank after Game 3's demorializing loss. 
     
    CalBear
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 2:29 PM ET #14

    As usual good stuff, spaz, but I'd have to agree w/tjohnson here. This shot selection was a direct result to durants 4th foul and brooks inexplicity benching westbrook. They had absolutely no flow. Similar to how when lebron sits....the heat are stagnant, which is why spolestra cannot afford to sit lebron. I believe he played 44 of 48 min last game and when he did get his longest rest, okc cut i believe a 7 pt lead to 1. Not saying that 4th foul lost the game for them, but certainly didnt help them and disrupted okc flow and durants hot hand...gl tonight, buddy.
    Reply
    As usual good stuff, spaz, but I'd have to agree w/tjohnson here. This shot selection was a direct result to durants 4th foul and brooks inexplicity benching westbrook. They had absolutely no flow. Similar to how when lebron sits....the heat are stagnant, which is why spolestra cannot afford to sit lebron. I believe he played 44 of 48 min last game and when he did get his longest rest, okc cut i believe a 7 pt lead to 1. Not saying that 4th foul lost the game for them, but certainly didnt help them and disrupted okc flow and durants hot hand...gl tonight, buddy.
     
    P4P
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 2:41 PM ET #15

    Prop looks good, what about the side? Very curious which way you're leaning
    Reply
    Prop looks good, what about the side? Very curious which way you're leaning
     
    AddingMachine
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 4:16 PM ET #16

    Let's bottom line this. Note which name appears the most in that span of futillity in post #1 : J.Harden, J.Harden, J.Harden ...now let's look at the entire game he went 2-10 and 0-4 form the arch for a combine 14%....ouch!!! BTW - they would still have covered if Westbrook was a little under control and they hit there average FT's.  

    So it's very simple here...if you feel Harden will play back to his potential, like he had before this series they can win and at a minimum cover. Can he remmber how to drive and escape the defensive pressure and find net. The Heat have been  focused on stopping his penetration and taking him out of his game (ie., remember errant pass in last, etc.). Brooks knows this now and now must find away to bring the old J. Harden back or at a minimum find a way to get him some assists.  I think he does.

     I would look at the Harden over before Charmers.  Remember during the season Wade and the King shared the ball.....I would not average in the season here....times a different...just IMO. 

    Reply

    Let's bottom line this. Note which name appears the most in that span of futillity in post #1 : J.Harden, J.Harden, J.Harden ...now let's look at the entire game he went 2-10 and 0-4 form the arch for a combine 14%....ouch!!! BTW - they would still have covered if Westbrook was a little under control and they hit there average FT's.  

    So it's very simple here...if you feel Harden will play back to his potential, like he had before this series they can win and at a minimum cover. Can he remmber how to drive and escape the defensive pressure and find net. The Heat have been  focused on stopping his penetration and taking him out of his game (ie., remember errant pass in last, etc.). Brooks knows this now and now must find away to bring the old J. Harden back or at a minimum find a way to get him some assists.  I think he does.

     I would look at the Harden over before Charmers.  Remember during the season Wade and the King shared the ball.....I would not average in the season here....times a different...just IMO. 

     
    AddingMachine
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 5:09 PM ET #17

    Hey P4P...my 2 girls can take your 2!
    Reply
    Hey P4P...my 2 girls can take your 2!
     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 5:45 PM ET #18

    jwarner - good seeing you buddy

    Cal - thanks buddy.  I agree that OKC was forced to put Durant on the bench, but I don't get having Westbrook there.  And even if having them both there at that stage is normal for the Thunder. I don't get the shot slection by OKC.  But I do fully agree that Durant was forced to the bench and that changed everything.

    P4P - next post buddy for other plays

    Adding Machine - I can't feel good about backing Harden just yet as he has been quite Jekyl and Hyde.  I'm not overly impressed with him to be honest.  Let me rephrase.  When he is good, he can take over a game and swing momentum.  When he is bad, he is bad.  And last game he was bad. 

    Reply

    jwarner - good seeing you buddy

    Cal - thanks buddy.  I agree that OKC was forced to put Durant on the bench, but I don't get having Westbrook there.  And even if having them both there at that stage is normal for the Thunder. I don't get the shot slection by OKC.  But I do fully agree that Durant was forced to the bench and that changed everything.

    P4P - next post buddy for other plays

    Adding Machine - I can't feel good about backing Harden just yet as he has been quite Jekyl and Hyde.  I'm not overly impressed with him to be honest.  Let me rephrase.  When he is good, he can take over a game and swing momentum.  When he is bad, he is bad.  And last game he was bad. 

     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:01 PM ET #19

    Oklahoma City +1.5 (12 units to win 10.91)

    Gut check time for the Thunder.  They have been outscored in the first quarter 82-57 in the first three games of this series.  Seems crazy to back this team out of the gates based on what we've seen thus far in this series.  This might be a gut play more than anything, but I think OKC comes out strong to start this game. 

    Oklahoma City/Miami OVER 192 (20 units to win 18.18)

     

    Reply

    Oklahoma City +1.5 (12 units to win 10.91)

    Gut check time for the Thunder.  They have been outscored in the first quarter 82-57 in the first three games of this series.  Seems crazy to back this team out of the gates based on what we've seen thus far in this series.  This might be a gut play more than anything, but I think OKC comes out strong to start this game. 

    Oklahoma City/Miami OVER 192 (20 units to win 18.18)

     

     
    Osiris2012
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:06 PM ET #20

    Hey SDS what's up bud? 

    Can I ask what odds you got on the Chalmers prop and what is line for that OKC 1st qtr play as well... GL With the Plays! 
    Reply
    Hey SDS what's up bud? 

    Can I ask what odds you got on the Chalmers prop and what is line for that OKC 1st qtr play as well... GL With the Plays! 
     
    SettleDownSpaz
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:09 PM ET #21

    Osirus - hey buddy.  Chalmers over -115 and -110 on the first quarter
    Reply
    Osirus - hey buddy.  Chalmers over -115 and -110 on the first quarter
     
    Louis_IV
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:13 PM ET #22

    gl spazzer
    Reply
    gl spazzer
     
    Osiris2012
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:14 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by SettleDownSpaz:

    Osirus - hey buddy.  Chalmers over -115 and -110 on the first quarter

    So my line is Chalmers scoring 9.5 with the juice at -135 on the under and +105 for Over... 

    Like to hear what your Lebron & Durant #'s are? 

    Im showing LBJ @ 31.5 with the under @ -120 & over @ -110
    Durant 30.5 with the Over @ -125 & the under @ -105
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SettleDownSpaz:

    Osirus - hey buddy.  Chalmers over -115 and -110 on the first quarter

    So my line is Chalmers scoring 9.5 with the juice at -135 on the under and +105 for Over... 

    Like to hear what your Lebron & Durant #'s are? 

    Im showing LBJ @ 31.5 with the under @ -120 & over @ -110
    Durant 30.5 with the Over @ -125 & the under @ -105
     
    Osiris2012
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 6:16 PM ET #24

    Taking that OKC 1st qtr play as well with u.. I don't think they let that In-game play get to high were you can get OKC @ anything higher than +5... 
    Reply
    Taking that OKC 1st qtr play as well with u.. I don't think they let that In-game play get to high were you can get OKC @ anything higher than +5... 
     
     
    rydahJ05
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    Posted: Jun. 19, 2012 - 7:05 PM ET #25

    Reply
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