Posted:
#101
Yep, WB doesn't ever lose.
He basically owns GE and GS now.
I do think it is hilarious that a bunch of fat cat pricks at "Goldman Sachs" now have to take orders from a cranky old man.
October Stock Talk I
Posted:
#102
CC,
That is taking it a bit far about Buffett.
He invested the equiv of 2% of GE market cap in return he got preferred shares and warrants. GE has call options on those shares and I doubt when things turn that they keep paying him a 10% yield.
GS public company represents 25% of the total equity of the company, meaning they only IPO'd 25%..so whatever WB invested it doesnt amount to much. He wont be giving orders to the floor brokers.
lol
That is taking it a bit far about Buffett.
He invested the equiv of 2% of GE market cap in return he got preferred shares and warrants. GE has call options on those shares and I doubt when things turn that they keep paying him a 10% yield.
GS public company represents 25% of the total equity of the company, meaning they only IPO'd 25%..so whatever WB invested it doesnt amount to much. He wont be giving orders to the floor brokers.
lol
Posted:
#106
CC,
Buffett owns very little, look at the private placement they did and how much of it was Buffett? He has warrants which unless ex'd mean zippo, they are an accrued liability which until sold are marked to market and that is it.
Again, GS market cap represents 25% of the total company value..so even if WB invested 10% of GS market cap, that only really represents 2.5% of the entity..75% of GS is still private.
If you think he is calling shots that is a bit steep in my view.
Buffett owns very little, look at the private placement they did and how much of it was Buffett? He has warrants which unless ex'd mean zippo, they are an accrued liability which until sold are marked to market and that is it.
Again, GS market cap represents 25% of the total company value..so even if WB invested 10% of GS market cap, that only really represents 2.5% of the entity..75% of GS is still private.
If you think he is calling shots that is a bit steep in my view.
Posted:
#107
WSC-
Buffett personally bailed out GS and GE, and you know it.
Look it, if GE and GS were worth a damn and could've stood on their own, they'd NEVER have given WB those types of terms. The truth is that they know their businesses are in the toilet for years, and they couldn't take the humiliation of the consequences. Also, given the situation, they aren't going to be looked at favorably if they come crying to Uncle Sam to fcku over the taxpayer.
Buffett put both GE and GS over a barrell. He is now their daddy.
Posted:
#108
CC,
I dont agree and this is why.
The short term credit markets are what caused GE to go get capital..they use the commercial paper market to fund operations, always been that way. Since that segment of the market has closed up shop, they needed more cash..they dont need it longer term, but since there are no short term options that is what they needed to do.
Look at the deal on friday with California..they arent needing deficit funding, rather general operations funding, and since that market is dead they are looking as well.
GE and GS are worth a damn, the market isnt functioning properly in the short term, so they did what was necessary to keep operations flowing.
I dont agree and this is why.
The short term credit markets are what caused GE to go get capital..they use the commercial paper market to fund operations, always been that way. Since that segment of the market has closed up shop, they needed more cash..they dont need it longer term, but since there are no short term options that is what they needed to do.
Look at the deal on friday with California..they arent needing deficit funding, rather general operations funding, and since that market is dead they are looking as well.
GE and GS are worth a damn, the market isnt functioning properly in the short term, so they did what was necessary to keep operations flowing.
Posted:
#109
WSC-
I respect you and your opinion.
Remember this.....Warren Buffett is a business man hellbent on making as much money as possible before ANYTHING else.
In deals like this, a hell of a lot more terms are never released to the public.
Just on terms alone, Buffett is fleecing both GE and GS. You think those iceholes there would give you or me a guaranteed 10%? They'd still be rolling on the floor laughing.
Buffett didn't do this deal to save American companies and restore "confidence," he did this cause he is in control now with ultra vavorable terms. Buffett is what, 786 years old? He wants power and money, and he got both. He isn't doing this for anyone besides himself.
Believe you me, the boards of GE and GS take their cues from the old, cranky guy in Omaha.
Posted:
#110
" GE and GS are worth a damn, the market isnt functioning properly in the short term, so they did what was necessary to keep operations flowing."
Wall, in the normal course of things, that is called being up shits creek without a paddle.
That is the exactly the state the "smartest people on Wall Street" ( a description I agree with) found themselves in. That is precisely why they were forced to accept Buffett's terms.Only the direst straits would make the mavens of Goldman take such terms.
The terms announced are simply those they have agreed to release.Who knows what else they have had to agree to? Not me or you, but admitting what they have had to admit is embarrassing enough.
Posted:
#111
Tell me guys..
When in our lifetimes have we seen the commercial paper market not functioning?
This isnt how businesses like GE and GS operate, having backups for when the commercial/short term paper market freeze up.
I dont recall this EVER happening. Now I give them some knocks for leveraging so heavy and needing margin calls but even with that, if the short term commercial paper market were functioning this doesnt happen and is unnecessary.
So how would you go about planning for that in your business plan?
When in our lifetimes have we seen the commercial paper market not functioning?
This isnt how businesses like GE and GS operate, having backups for when the commercial/short term paper market freeze up.
I dont recall this EVER happening. Now I give them some knocks for leveraging so heavy and needing margin calls but even with that, if the short term commercial paper market were functioning this doesnt happen and is unnecessary.
So how would you go about planning for that in your business plan?
Posted:
#112
I have to agree with Wall on this one.
This is beyond the range of a normal business emergency plan. It would be akin to me keeping tire chains and a snow plow at the ready here in Florida.
You can plan for alot of things, but if you plan for every single possible and seemingly impossible contigency you will plan yourself right out of business.
This is beyond the range of a normal business emergency plan. It would be akin to me keeping tire chains and a snow plow at the ready here in Florida.
You can plan for alot of things, but if you plan for every single possible and seemingly impossible contigency you will plan yourself right out of business.
Posted:
#113
NWO at work by freezing the st paper? I don't know, but the conspiracy theorists seem right.
One world govt, one world currency, one world bank, surveillance all around us.
BIG BROTHER is getting more and more powerful by the second.
BTW, have no idea what to make of today's open, but since I am at work all day, I expect a massive short covering rally that I will of course miss. PUT YOUR BUY FOR A TRADE HATS ON TODAY!
Posted:
#118
I think I'm just going to sit on the sidelines and take the beating I'm getting in my two smallish posistions (UYG/NCC) and definately not touching my March GLD puts.
Hopefully near the close we are still way down and I will start to accumulate. I don't want to step in front of this run away train quite yet.
Hopefully near the close we are still way down and I will start to accumulate. I don't want to step in front of this run away train quite yet.
Posted:
#119
vix at 56
holy crap
hat - i know nothing about HLIT but i would advise against buying anything right now
once this is a smoking crater i will look for companies with REAL GROWTH and EARNINGS...large cap, cash rich
mcd, tgt, wmt, t, fcx, x
did you know US Steel is trading at a 2.43 (intraday) forward PE?!?!?!?!
holy crap
hat - i know nothing about HLIT but i would advise against buying anything right now
once this is a smoking crater i will look for companies with REAL GROWTH and EARNINGS...large cap, cash rich
mcd, tgt, wmt, t, fcx, x
did you know US Steel is trading at a 2.43 (intraday) forward PE?!?!?!?!
Posted:
#121
jax,
I agree..if Cramer is throwing in the towel it is time to start buying.
hat, yeah it is a good time to average in on HLIT, it lowers your average..I am glad you waited.
DRYS gets nailed again..another down day another smack down. George announced the spinoff will go for 30-31 per share and the common which will make 12 plus next year is going for under that price.
I didnt think we would see sub 10k this week
I agree..if Cramer is throwing in the towel it is time to start buying.
hat, yeah it is a good time to average in on HLIT, it lowers your average..I am glad you waited.
DRYS gets nailed again..another down day another smack down. George announced the spinoff will go for 30-31 per share and the common which will make 12 plus next year is going for under that price.
I didnt think we would see sub 10k this week
Posted:
#125
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Good thing the short ban is still in (at least I think it is) most financials are down half of what the indexes are.
If that ban wasnt in place I imagine we might be to the lower 9ks now.
Good thing the short ban is still in (at least I think it is) most financials are down half of what the indexes are.
If that ban wasnt in place I imagine we might be to the lower 9ks now.
Wall Don't you think that money is being used to short other companies now ?? I actually think the ban is hurting the rest of the market.
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