September 11, 2001 (long read)

As for flight 93 not being found and no evidence of a plane, or even it being shot down.

Searchers Thursday found one of the so-called black boxes from United Airlines Flight 93, the hijacked airliner that crashed Tuesday in western Pennsylvania

I would like to thank Hutch for helping to bring a little decency to this thread.  These conspiracies are really disgusting when you get down to it.  They might not say it directly, but for these theories to be true, it would say AWFUL things about victims, victim's families, first responders, and the men and women who fight every day for our freedom.

I also would like to point out that nearly every post from the non-conspiracy side includes quotes, articles, videos, photos. The conspiracy posts are full of things like, "...well what about this.  How do you explain this?"  Typically a two second Google search produces an answer. 

Smidio now has TWO main points. It used to be THREE.  He called me out about the man with no legs.  I produced an article showing that was a mistake which has been corrected.  He no longer mentions that.  It's funny how the conspiracy has shrunk throughout this thread. 

His strongest arguments now are free fall speed (has been proven false), cell phone calls were impossible (proven false), and a conversation he has had with the family member of 09/11 victim (can't be proven).  Apparently he would have us believe that flight 93 landed in Cleveland.  The victim was quickly taken away with promises of his every desire...however, he could no longer have contact with his family.  At approximately the same time a government official made a phony phone call to the victim's mother.  Which brings up another question.  even if the CELL calls were faked, what's the explanation for the phone calls made via the airphones?  Were those faked too?  If you are trying to keep people off your trail why even bother with the cell phone calls?????  Why give people reason to question you?  Yea, it all doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Heres a pretty sad story about a women who's been harassed by Conspiracy Theorist because she took the only photo of the crash of Flight 93.  Pretty sad stuff you're a part of smdio.

In an article in the Journal of the Minerals, Metals, and Materials Society and in subsequent interviews, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building. Temperature differentials of hundreds of degrees across single steel horizontal trusses caused them to sag--straining and then breaking the angle clips that held the beams to the vertical columns. Once one truss failed, others followed. When one floor collapsed onto the next floor below, that floor subsequently gave way, creating a pancaking effect that triggered each 500,000-ton structure to crumble. Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides, but with 95 percent of each building consisting of air, they could only have collapsed straight down.

Here is your video on the free fall crap.  Even puts a nice little timer in it for you.  Shows alot of angles too.  Just for you smdio.

https://www.debunking911.com/links.htm

Scroll down and watch the video by Abby Scott.  One conspiracy guy said Gulliani had a bunker in WT 7 and an "infra ray" helped the planes zero in.

Another guy makes up a song about it.  Another one says there were no planes at all.

What a bunch of MORONS.  NUTS! 

This is really the people you agree with Flash_Pan and smdio?

Unreal.

tpj-

I have done easily over 100 hours of reading on this topic....read both the conspiracy stuff and otherwise.  It's been a fascination of mine for a couple of years.  It's almost a obsession to try and help people see the truth because it's a slap in the face to all that died that day for this bull shit to continue to be offered up for willing minds to absorb. 

Let me explain things about this Free Fall speed consiracy theorists like to talk about.  They constantly refer to this as proof because it is the only thing they say that makes them look like they may actually be smart (they're not).  They know that if they can put up numbers and a calculation that someone might take them seriously (we don't though).  Don't get fooled by there calculations, they are usually wrong themselves.  They calculated the towers falling from after they were already falling and finished before they were actually down all the way. Please don't believe these people. 

Free Fall theory debunked, Cell Phone theory debunked.  What else can we let you know smdio.

Plus in this video, you will see the actual free falling debris coming down around the WTC.

Also scroll down the link in post 510 and listen to the video where 9/11 deniers speak.

If I was in the same room with that Dylan Avery was, I might shoot him dead.  No bodies at the Pentagon?  They identified all but one I believe.  These guys are fuking embarassing.

One guy calls in and says he was AT WT7 and saw it collapse.  Dylan says, "no that's not the case."  The guy was THERE and they don't believe him?

They say Todd Beemer asked to not talk to his wife.  What they fail to also say is that he told the operator he didn't want to talk to his wife because she "might lose the baby."

Once again, examples of giving some information, but not sharing the part that allows the previous part to make perfect sense. 

Another great video debunking the missile theory.

Lets examine some more of our friend Smidio's claims:

"The third family member that I spoke to (a mother of one of the Flight 93 members) instantly broke down in tears and hugged me. It wasn't the type of "hug" that you would receive from a complete stranger.  If I could try to compare it to something you might understand over the internet, it was the type of hug that an American Soldier might receive from their family after coming home from a long tour in Iraq. Long, emotional, and strong...Each time I mentioned the cell phone call between her and her son, she filled up with tears and could no longer speak.  It was the type of cry that really struck a nerve with me.  You could see the intensity in her face, like she wanted to tell me something but couldnt."

Actual research into the calls made on Flight 93 show that six (6) calls were made by males on that flight.  There were Todd Beamer, Mark Bingham, Thomas Burnett, Joseph DeLuca, Edward Felt, and Jeremy Glick.

1.  Todd Beamer called Lisa Jefferson, a GTE supervisor.  So this cannot be who our friend spoke to.

2.  Thomas Burnett called Deena Burnett, his wife.  So this also cannot be who he spoke to.

3.  Joseph DeLuca called his father.  Smidio spoke to a female.

4.  Edward Felt spoke to John Shaw, an operator at for Westmoreland County.  Can't be this one.

5.  Jeremy Glick also spoke to his wife.  Smidio told us it was a victim's mother. 

6.  Mark Bingham spoke to his aunt, Kathy Hogland, and his mother, Alice Hoglan.

So lets analyze the Mark Bingham calls further. 

This from an MSNBC artice, ""Mark Bingham uses an Airfone to call his mother, Alice Hoglan, who is still asleep at her brother’s home in Saratoga, Calif., having been up late the night before caring for triplets. “Mom, this is Mark Bingham,” he tells her, so rattled he uses his last name. Bingham describes the situation for his mother, a United Airlines flight attendant. The call lasts about three minutes. Twice during the call, says Alice, “Mark was distracted. There was a five-second pause. I heard people speaking. There was murmuring, nothing loud.” She theorizes that Mark was talking to the other men, and planning to fight back."

Uh oh.  Smidio told us "...each time I mentioned the cell phone call..."  The article above tells us Mark Bingham used an airfone.

From pilotsfor911truth

"...Mark Bingham's call was made via an Airphone."

Uh oh...more bad news for Smidio

From "The Final Moments of United Flight 93"

"Mark Bingham uses an Airfone to call his mother, Alice Hoglan, who is still asleep at her brother’s home in Saratoga, Calif., having been up late the night before caring for triplets."

From Global Research talking about Dylan Avery of Loose Change fame

"Avery didn’t seem to have even considered the possibility that some or most of the calls were made on airphones, which is peculiar since, a few minutes later in the film, while describing Mark Bingham’s call to his mother from UAL93, he specifically mentions that Bingham twice told his mom that he was calling from an airphone. The damage to the truth movement by this oversight is incalculable. Was it truly an oversight, or something worse?"

So a WELL KNOWN TRUTHER even says Bingham used an airphone.

SOMEONE IS A LIAR.  Care to explain Smidio?  I would ask that after you say I'm lying you provide proof that a MALE on FLIGHT 93 called his MOTHER using a CELLPHONE.  Proof that is something other than your own words friend.  Are you going to tell us you don't want to give out her name?  Problem is there was only ONE male passenger who called his mother.  Uh oh. 

Another good video for the Pentagon about eyewitnesses.  I love the quote at the end.

Speaking of the damage these conspiracy people do:  I read a story where an engineer told of a statement he had made....said the collapsing towers "looked like an explosion."  He was a respected scientist and engineer.  The CT's took this and said here was a professional who thought the WTC's were brought down with explosives.

He said it "looked like an explosion."  Said it took him years to get that "albatross" from around his neck.  When asked if he thought an explosion brough the towers down, he said, "hell no....it was a collapse."

That's the type of damage these kooks do when they take stuff out of context and only report parts of stories and then fill stuff on their own when the real conclusion doesn't support their hairbrained beliefs.

Assholes don't have the first clue how much damage they have done. 

BTW, I'd say it's game, set, and match for the truth as far as this thread is concerned. 

Thanks to all the folks who brought facts and scientific information to the table. 

Here is another video on all the wreckage found at Flight 93 crash site.

Sorry, don't have all day to spend on this thread.  You can argue the science behind this stuff all day long.  Fact is, none of us in here are physics professors.  And there are many around the country that claim the events the way they were explained, is bs.  And you will find others who believe the US Gov't story.  Fact is, science is manipulated all the time.  Check Global Warming

What you can't deny are these FACTS. 

1. The US Gov't clearly lied to all of us when they said they did not have photos of the plane hitting the Pentagon.  Yet years later, they all of a sudden release 4 images from that day.  Proof right there they lied to us.

2. Dick Cheney adamantly opposed to speaking under oath on the events of 9-11.  Why? What does he have to hide?

3. Unknown speculators allegedly used foreknowledge of the Sept. 11th events to profiteer on many markets internationally - including but not limited to "put options" placed to short-sell the two airlines, WTC tenants, and WTC re-insurance companies in Chicago and London.

4. Highest trading volume ever recorded at the Chicago Board Options Exchange for United Airlines stock. Sept 6th, 2001

5. On Sept 10th, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago Exchange, compared to only 748 calls

6. Different groups of kids from grades 6th - 8th were warning their teachers and schools about impending attacks in NYC, weeks before 9-11.  (This is from ABC News) ..... Kids in NYC knew but our all mighty Gov't did not?  Come on, man don't be so naive.

7. We can find Sadam in a hole in the ground but not Osama Bin Laden?

8. The Taliban refused to allow Halliburton's pipeline in Afghanistan before 9-11.  Right after we invaded, Halliburton installed their pipeline. 

Look, there are more of these basic facts that I can go on and on about.  If you follow the official story from the US Govt, it doesn't add up.  I have lived a very privileged life, and have had the opportunity to travel most of the globe.  If you don't understand what the American Empire means, then I understand why you would believe the official story spoon fed to you by the US Govt.

Ever wondered why Central and South American countries have remained poor for all this time, yet their GDP has risen?  Same with certain Africa and Asia countries?  Don't think we had a hand in it? 9-11 ensured these opportunites would continue.  Its not all about Oil as some would want you to believe.  Also, there is something else more important than oil in the middle east we have been fighting for, and its called water.  Most of you will never understand this though.

Some of you would rather keep you head in the sand, and that's your choice.  Some of us would rather live in reality, no matter how uncomfortable some truths may be.  

Its a dirty world out there and many of our tactics since WWII have provided us the quality of life we enjoy today, at the expense of many others around the world.  But hey, I've enjoyed my quality of life too and I can't argue that.  Its a crazy world and the thirst for power will never end. 

Just remember, the German citizens didn't think it was possible for their Gov't to be doing what they were doing either.  Their gov't was made up of men, so is ours.  How are we any different?  We're not, its human nature

Smidio, I feel for your tragic loss.  Some people in here are obviously inconsiderate and only research debunking sites.  They just don't want to dig any further.

 

just a little heads up

I don't think I'd include your point #6 in any serious debate if I were talking to friends or co-workers about your theories.

i was wrong, you wouldn't make a good lawyer...

 

I actually sent the article from ABC News to my mom, years ago.  I just did a Google Search, and I am having trouble locating the article from ABC News.  I did however, run across another story that was very similar.  This kid wasn't the only one, there was another school with teachers coming forward with similar info, many more students involved.

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/690989/posts

This is as real as those towers coming down

A little more info...

Apparently even some NYC school kids knew something was coming down. In the October 2002 issue of Insight Magazine, journalist Jeffrey Scott Shapiro reported that a high school freshman at New Utrecht HS in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, may have known in advance that the World Trade Center would be attacked. When this claim came to Shapiro's attention, he followed up on the story by talking to the boy's teacher, Antoinette DiLorenzo. During a lesson a week before the attacks, DiLorenzo noticed the boy, a Palestinian, looking out a window. "What are you looking at?" she asked. The boy's response, in hindsight, was chilling: "Do you see those two buildings?" he asked while pointing at the World Trade Center. "They won't be standing there next week."

This was not the only incident like this that apparently occurred in the days before the attacks. Shapiro also reported that a 6th grade student at another school passed on a similar warning to his teacher on September 10, 2001. "Essentially, he warned her to stay away from lower Manhattan because something bad was going to happen," said Sgt. Edgar Martinez, deputy director of police services for the Jersey City Police Department, according to Shapiro. Yet another boy had heard of the impending attacks and warned his classmates. "He warned them not to ride any city buses because he had been told at his mosque the week before to stay off all public transportation for a while," said one NYPD Officer quoted by Shapiro. "He said it wouldn't be safe"

 

There you have it folks.  Multiple schools with students who knew of attacks coming.  I have a feeling our CIA is a little more competent than that. 

Here is another Fact to chew on.  Members of the 9-11 Commission have come forward saying the report did not tell the whole truth, because they were repeatedly stonewalled and denied access to certain information.  Bush refused to give up information, and had to be subpoenaed to part with some of it.  Dick refused to testify under oath.  And to top it all off, the report only covers events leading up to the attacks.  It does not touch the fall of the towers.  So the most important investigation in our country's history, doesn't even cover the actual site/evidence of the crime??  Really?? 

 

You got me.  There must be a conspiracy.