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Lets be honest about religion

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Posted: #101
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

If God created heavan and earth, who created God?

Haven't you heard Hutch, "god" is part of the supernatural, she just always was
Still waiting for the evidence for this supernatural place
 
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Posted: #102
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


Still waiting for the evidence for this supernatural place

       

I can just see your puzzled face. You must go around always with a puzzled look on your face eh?...lol

 
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Posted: #103
The difference between the atheist and the believer is I have the power to state things as fact. EVERYTHING the believer states is speculative to some degree.

Fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of god.
Fact: There is absolutely NOTHING substantial supporting the argument that even if there is a creator of the universe, it has anything to do with Christmas, Jesus, a cross, person, or whatever. Even if we accept Rostos' argument that something had to have created the universe, what that something is that created the universe could be literally ANYTHING.

So, let me revise my statements a bit as they came off a bit harsh. I can understand why people want to believe in god and if you do, it's ok. My problem with god is not so much believing one exists, it's worshipping and praying to that god because you have absolutely NO IDEA who or what that creator is. That is why going to church is a waste of time unless you acknowledge that you are doing it because it makes you feel better or because your dying mother asked you to and it makes her feel better or because you think you have "found god" and it made your life better (like Josh Hamilton-if that's what works for him, great, kudos to him, to each his own, but it has absolutely 0 impact on the odds of a god existing.

And Hutch - the theists don't feel like they have to answer who created god because god is supernatural. For some reason they find it more plausible that god always existed and he created everything as opposed to whatever it is that the universe actually is always existed and certain things were just always there because UNDOUBTEDLY 100% FACT: SOMETHING had to always have existed.
 
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Posted: #104
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

       

I can just see your puzzled face. You must go around always with a puzzled look on your face eh?...lol


I knew you couldn't ignore me (remember, you weren't going to respond to me anymore) Just shows how weak you are.  All this time it's been killing you. Now that's a face I would love to seeGo back to the other thread and do some more cutting and pasting and thumping...



 
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Posted: #105
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

The difference between the atheist and the believer is I have the power to state things as fact. EVERYTHING the believer states is speculative to some degree.

Fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of god.
Fact: There is absolutely NOTHING substantial supporting the argument that even if there is a creator of the universe, it has anything to do with Christmas, Jesus, a cross, person, or whatever. Even if we accept Rostos' argument that something had to have created the universe, what that something is that created the universe could be literally ANYTHING.

So, let me revise my statements a bit as they came off a bit harsh. I can understand why people want to believe in god and if you do, it's ok. My problem with god is not so much believing one exists, it's worshipping and praying to that god because you have absolutely NO IDEA who or what that creator is. That is why going to church is a waste of time unless you acknowledge that you are doing it because it makes you feel better or because your dying mother asked you to and it makes her feel better or because you think you have "found god" and it made your life better (like Josh Hamilton-if that's what works for him, great, kudos to him, to each his own, but it has absolutely 0 impact on the odds of a god existing.

And Hutch - the theists don't feel like they have to answer who created god because god is supernatural. For some reason they find it more plausible that god always existed and he created everything as opposed to whatever it is that the universe actually is always existed and certain things were just always there because UNDOUBTEDLY 100% FACT: SOMETHING had to always have existed.


+1
 
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Posted: #106

    

 

 
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Posted: #107

I'm not responding to what you say so basicly I'm still ignoring you, but I'm definitely making fun of you which is totally different sister system....hihihihihi!

    

 
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Posted: #108
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

I'm not responding to what you say so basicly I'm still ignoring you, but I'm definitely making fun of you which is totally different sister system....hihihihihi!

    


First of all, it has to be funny to be making fun of someone. Second, you not knowing what ignoring means is funny, and that fact that every time you post it is sad and pathetic and you don't even know it.  Think about all the times someone has said you are a douche on here. I'm not the only one who thinks it.  

 
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Posted: #109
Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


Haven't you heard Hutch, "god" is part of the supernatural, she just always was
Still waiting for the evidence for this supernatural place

Even if supernatural, wouldn't God still have to be created from something.  The argument I'm hearing for God by some people is that something can't be created from nothing.  Well, even if supernatural, they are arguing that God exists.  By very definition, something that exists has to be created from something....does it not?  I just want to know where God was created from.  Simple question. 

 
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Posted: #110
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Even if supernatural, wouldn't God still have to be created from something.  The argument I'm hearing for God by some people is that something can't be created from nothing.  Well, even if supernatural, they are arguing that God exists.  By very definition, something that exists has to be created from something....does it not?  I just want to know where God was created from.  Simple question. 

Before I start I know you will still be bewildered and confused like sister system who always seem to be confused with a face like this....

God is the only exception to this something that exists has to be created from something.... because he has always existed, he has no beginning and no end, he is forever-lasting eternal.

There is your answer!

Now I know we had said this countless of times before on that other thread about posting your question regarding Christianiy and I know you have visited that thread before. So you should have seen that answer before. Now remember it and don't forget it....there will be a test on it...lol

 
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Posted: #111
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Before I start I know you will still be bewildered and confused like sister system who always seem to be confused with a face like this....

God is the only exception to this something that exists has to be created from something.... because he has always existed, he has no beginning and no end, he is forever-lasting eternal.

There is your answer!

Now I know we had said this countless of times before on that other thread about posting your question regarding Christianiy and I know you have visited that thread before. So you should have seen that answer before. Now remember it and don't forget it....there will be a test on it...lol

The fact that you can wrap your mind around this concept.....well....just says volumes about your intellgence. 

 
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Posted: #112

Now I know we had said this countless of times before on that other thread about posting your question regarding Christianiy and I know you have visited that thread before. So you should have seen that answer before. Now remember it and don't forget it....there will be a test on it...lol

__________

I had difficulty finding it amidst all of your posts. 

 
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Posted: #113
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Before I start I know you will still be bewildered and confused like sister system who always seem to be confused with a face like this....

God is the only exception to this something that exists has to be created from something.... because he has always existed, he has no beginning and no end, he is forever-lasting eternal.

There is your answer!

Now I know we had said this countless of times before on that other thread about posting your question regarding Christianiy and I know you have visited that thread before. So you should have seen that answer before. Now remember it and don't forget it....there will be a test on it...lol


This is based on NOTHING.
 
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Posted: #114
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

The difference between the atheist and the believer is I have the power to state things as fact. EVERYTHING the believer states is speculative to some degree.

Fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of god.
Fact: There is absolutely NOTHING substantial supporting the argument that even if there is a creator of the universe, it has anything to do with Christmas, Jesus, a cross, person, or whatever. Even if we accept Rostos' argument that something had to have created the universe, what that something is that created the universe could be literally ANYTHING.

So, let me revise my statements a bit as they came off a bit harsh. I can understand why people want to believe in god and if you do, it's ok. My problem with god is not so much believing one exists, it's worshipping and praying to that god because you have absolutely NO IDEA who or what that creator is. That is why going to church is a waste of time unless you acknowledge that you are doing it because it makes you feel better or because your dying mother asked you to and it makes her feel better or because you think you have "found god" and it made your life better (like Josh Hamilton-if that's what works for him, great, kudos to him, to each his own, but it has absolutely 0 impact on the odds of a god existing.

And Hutch - the theists don't feel like they have to answer who created god because god is supernatural. For some reason they find it more plausible that god always existed and he created everything as opposed to whatever it is that the universe actually is always existed and certain things were just always there because UNDOUBTEDLY 100% FACT: SOMETHING had to always have existed.


I've had enough experiences to believe there is a supreme being..God, or whatever it is you choose to call it. One experience being the birth of my children. That is an absolute miracle. If any of you have had that same experience, then you will know what I mean.

This is an absolutely no win argument. However, the next time one of your loved ones is diagnosed with something that the Docs have no answer for, then you'll turn to what? Perhaps you may not, but 99% of people will look to God for a miracle.

Thank you for your opinion.
 
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Posted: #115
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

The difference between the atheist and the believer is I have the power to state things as fact. EVERYTHING the believer states is speculative to some degree.

Fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove the existence of god.
Fact: There is absolutely NOTHING substantial supporting the argument that even if there is a creator of the universe, it has anything to do with Christmas, Jesus, a cross, person, or whatever. Even if we accept Rostos' argument that something had to have created the universe, what that something is that created the universe could be literally ANYTHING.

So, let me revise my statements a bit as they came off a bit harsh. I can understand why people want to believe in god and if you do, it's ok. My problem with god is not so much believing one exists, it's worshipping and praying to that god because you have absolutely NO IDEA who or what that creator is. That is why going to church is a waste of time unless you acknowledge that you are doing it because it makes you feel better or because your dying mother asked you to and it makes her feel better or because you think you have "found god" and it made your life better (like Josh Hamilton-if that's what works for him, great, kudos to him, to each his own, but it has absolutely 0 impact on the odds of a god existing.

And Hutch - the theists don't feel like they have to answer who created god because god is supernatural. For some reason they find it more plausible that god always existed and he created everything as opposed to whatever it is that the universe actually is always existed and certain things were just always there because UNDOUBTEDLY 100% FACT: SOMETHING had to always have existed.



Kitty -- would you agree, regarding your bolded part, that it is also impossible to prove the non-existence of God?
 
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Posted: #116
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Even if supernatural, wouldn't God still have to be created from something.  The argument I'm hearing for God by some people is that something can't be created from nothing.  Well, even if supernatural, they are arguing that God exists.  By very definition, something that exists has to be created from something....does it not?  I just want to know where God was created from.  Simple question. 



Not directed to me Hutch, but existence in the sense of explaining God can only really be comprehended by humans based on our sensory perceptions, understanding of space-time, etc.. Put differently, I find it completely plausible (probable? I don't know, but plausible) that "God" exists outside of human perception and understanding of the dimensions that we can comprehend. In that sense, "God" could easily create everything (or initiate the Big Bang, which is what I tend to lean towards) while having nothing create him. Why? Because we only understand the laws of physics, time, creation, etc. in our own universe, of which God is outside of.

Hopefully that makes some sense
 
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Posted: #117

Quote Originally Posted by kaponofor3:



Not directed to me Hutch, but existence in the sense of explaining God can only really be comprehended by humans based on our sensory perceptions, understanding of space-time, etc.. Put differently, I find it completely plausible (probable? I don't know, but plausible) that "God" exists outside of human perception and understanding of the dimensions that we can comprehend. In that sense, "God" could easily create everything (or initiate the Big Bang, which is what I tend to lean towards) while having nothing create him. Why? Because we only understand the laws of physics, time, creation, etc. in our own universe, of which God is outside of.

Hopefully that makes some sense

This is at least a possible explanation.  

 
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Posted: #118
It's completely plausible, given what we as humans have learned over the course of the last, say, 100 years as it relates to our understanding of quantum physics, the scope of the universe, the potential of other dimensions, dark matter, etc.. It's clear that there are things in the universe that we don't have figured out yet.
 
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Posted: #119
Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Before I start I know you will still be bewildered and confused like sister system who always seem to be confused with a face like this....


I love how mad you get when I use this It's only because you know how much the things you say are moronic...

God is the only exception to this something that exists has to be created from something.... because he has always existed, he has no beginning and no end, he is forever-lasting eternal.

There is your answer!

Now I know we had said this countless of times before on that other thread about posting your question regarding Christianiy and I know you have visited that thread before. So you should have seen that answer before. Now remember it and don't forget it....there will be a test on it...lol

 
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Posted: #120
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

The fact that you can wrap your mind around this concept.....well....just says volumes about your intellgence. 


  
 
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Posted: #121
"And Hutch - the theists don't feel like they have to answer who created god because god is supernatural. For some reason they find it more plausible that god always existed and he created everything as opposed to whatever it is that the universe actually is always existed and certain things were just always there because UNDOUBTEDLY 100% FACT: SOMETHING had to always have existed."

The universe has always existed? That'd be news to cosmologists seeing as it is pretty widely accepted that the universe came into existence as a result of the Big Bang. Prior to that, there was no "time" as we understand it currently.
 
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Posted: #122
Kapono - Yes, it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to disprove the existence of god. However, the burden of proof is on the one's making the claim.

Example: I am closing my fist and I say to you "There is a butterfly in my hand." Are you going to blindly accept what I say as true? (You may lol but obviously you shouldn't) The logical next step is to say "Show me." at which point you will be able to see whether or not I was telling the truth.

You say to me "God exists." The next logical step is for me to say "Show me." The fact that no is able to do this means the logical conclusion is not believe. Like I said, that does not mean there is a 0% chance god exists. All it means is naturally, as a logical and rational person, I reject the idea that something I can't see is real unless it can be proved to me.

Furthermore, prior to the big bang, we don't know what there was. But if there was literally "nothing" then that means that whatever caused the big bang simply "always existed" because there was no before. I know it is natural to rebut this by saying "but if there was nothing before, then the spark of the big bang came from nothing." But think about this logically for a second, if there was literally nothing before the big bang, then there's nothing to discuss about it. There is no reason to posture about what existed before time because it is impossible for anything to have existed before time. So if the first particle ever to exist was that which sparked the big bang, then that means that particle or whatever it was has existed for all of time, in other words: it always existed. Is it possible that this sequence of events was all set into motion by god. Absolutely. There are an infinite number of explanations. I just see no reason to jump to a conclusion that defies the laws of the universe as we know them unless I'm given a reason to do so.

And as for callmetim, please don't go into diseases and miracles because that is an argument I can easily win and will do so right now with a series of questions.

Why doesn't god heal amputees?
Why does god allow people to get sick in the first place?
Why is god responsible for healing those lucky ones who beat cancer or other seemingly fatal illnesses and not the doctors who worked effortlessly to save that person's life?

And no, you are not allowed to say "god acts in mysterious ways" or "we don't know god's plan" or any bullshit like that.
 
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Posted: #123
There's a special on the science channel this Sunday at 8 pm Eastern entitled "Did God Create the Universe?" I for one will be watching.
 
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Posted: #124
"Kapono - Yes, it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to disprove the existence of god. However, the burden of proof is on the one's making the claim."

Thanks for the reply, Kitty. I understand that the burden of persuasion should rest with the person making the claim... but are you not consequently also making a claim that God does not exist? If so, are you not just the flip side of the same coin as those who believe -- i.e., neither side can prove they are right and the other is wrong?

"You say to me "God exists." The next logical step is for me to say "Show me." The fact that no is able to do this means the logical conclusion is not believe. Like I said, that does not mean there is a 0% chance god exists. All it means is naturally, as a logical and rational person, I reject the idea that something I can't see is real unless it can be proved to me"

But this conclusion presupposes that humans have the ability to perceive God based on the laws of chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics, etc. that we believe to be universal laws that cannot be broken. If we start from a position that God is outside of those laws, then of course its understandable that, logically, it cannot be proven by using those same very laws that God does exist.


 
 
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Posted: #125
Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:



And as for callmetim, please don't go into diseases and miracles because that is an argument I can easily win and will do so right now with a series of questions.

Why doesn't god heal amputees?
Why does god allow people to get sick in the first place?
Why is god responsible for healing those lucky ones who beat cancer or other seemingly fatal illnesses and not the doctors who worked effortlessly to save that person's life?

And no, you are not allowed to say "god acts in mysterious ways" or "we don't know god's plan" or any bullshit like that.


Why doesn't God offer you anger management classes? Whew. I said this is a no-win argument. Either you're with it or not.

I cannot answer why doesn't God do some things and why do some people have debilitating diseases and others do not. Furthermore, it is not in my interest to answer those questions. I can only speak from experience. And, frankly speaking, all of those experiences have been absolutely positive.
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