I am not expressing any opinion... Just think the story is interesting and is a glimpse of the future...
Anybody have any thoughts?
Other than the inevitable idiocy of: It's ALL the Republicans fault... It's ALL Bush's fault... It's all the Democrats fault... It's all Obama's fault... Yes, we all already know all the players who are totally at fault for ALL things bad...
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Retired union workers facing 'unprecedented' pension cuts
I am not expressing any opinion... Just think the story is interesting and is a glimpse of the future...
Anybody have any thoughts?
Other than the inevitable idiocy of: It's ALL the Republicans fault... It's ALL Bush's fault... It's all the Democrats fault... It's all Obama's fault... Yes, we all already know all the players who are totally at fault for ALL things bad...
It's simple. It was terrible policy. Defined benefit plans are HORRIBLE for companies. They basically said, "no problem, go ahead," not taking into account that they would have to pay the piper down the road. It sucks for those affected, but that's life in the big city. Companies will ALWAYS take care of themselves. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.
My brother worked for Ford for 23 years. Luckily, they have enough money where they can pay people off (he just got his pension check....took a lump sum payment). It's nuts to think that every company that promises this stuff is going to do so responsibly.
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It's simple. It was terrible policy. Defined benefit plans are HORRIBLE for companies. They basically said, "no problem, go ahead," not taking into account that they would have to pay the piper down the road. It sucks for those affected, but that's life in the big city. Companies will ALWAYS take care of themselves. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.
My brother worked for Ford for 23 years. Luckily, they have enough money where they can pay people off (he just got his pension check....took a lump sum payment). It's nuts to think that every company that promises this stuff is going to do so responsibly.
"Without timely intervention, workers in the most deeply troubled plans are at risk of seeing the benefits they have earned drastically reduced,"
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I know of Ford employees who worked on the floor doing basic assembly who have made 6 figures. That's not enough....now they need to have monster pension plans as well? Sorry.
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"Without timely intervention, workers in the most deeply troubled plans are at risk of seeing the benefits they have earned drastically reduced,"
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I know of Ford employees who worked on the floor doing basic assembly who have made 6 figures. That's not enough....now they need to have monster pension plans as well? Sorry.
If cuts are allowed, retired truck driver Glenn Nicodemus, 63, could see his monthly benefits fall from around $3,300 a month to as little as $1,180. He retired in March after nearly 40 years on the road, and his only other source of income is $1,700 a month in Social Security benefits.
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Retired at 63. How many people are able to do that nowadays? I probably won't My dad worked for the State of MN and retired at 70. It's called reality.
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If cuts are allowed, retired truck driver Glenn Nicodemus, 63, could see his monthly benefits fall from around $3,300 a month to as little as $1,180. He retired in March after nearly 40 years on the road, and his only other source of income is $1,700 a month in Social Security benefits.
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Retired at 63. How many people are able to do that nowadays? I probably won't My dad worked for the State of MN and retired at 70. It's called reality.
"Without timely intervention, workers in the most deeply troubled plans are at risk of seeing the benefits they have earned drastically reduced,"
_______________________
I know of Ford employees who worked on the floor doing basic assembly who have made 6 figures. That's not enough....now they need to have monster pension plans as well? Sorry.
It is an issue to have huge pension plans. But do not blame the worker. He / she worked in a system under agreed upon terms (in regard to pension) and the rules are being changed mid stream. I get the global issue but i also get why the worker has the right to be mad.
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Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
"Without timely intervention, workers in the most deeply troubled plans are at risk of seeing the benefits they have earned drastically reduced,"
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I know of Ford employees who worked on the floor doing basic assembly who have made 6 figures. That's not enough....now they need to have monster pension plans as well? Sorry.
It is an issue to have huge pension plans. But do not blame the worker. He / she worked in a system under agreed upon terms (in regard to pension) and the rules are being changed mid stream. I get the global issue but i also get why the worker has the right to be mad.
As retirement funds are depleted more strain will be put on government entitlements... That is the thought that keeps running through my mind.
Between outsourcing overseas and technology eliminating workers I just wonder how long it will be before there are not enough people working and paying taxes to suppoert the military, the upkeep of American and the entitlement programs.
I know the pat answer is raise the debt ceiling and just borrow more money from foreign countries... My question is when will we have to pay the piper and just how hard will it be when those countries that we owe so much to decide they want a return on their investment...
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As retirement funds are depleted more strain will be put on government entitlements... That is the thought that keeps running through my mind.
Between outsourcing overseas and technology eliminating workers I just wonder how long it will be before there are not enough people working and paying taxes to suppoert the military, the upkeep of American and the entitlement programs.
I know the pat answer is raise the debt ceiling and just borrow more money from foreign countries... My question is when will we have to pay the piper and just how hard will it be when those countries that we owe so much to decide they want a return on their investment...
It is an issue to have huge pension plans. But do not blame the worker. He / she worked in a system under agreed upon terms (in regard to pension) and the rules are being changed mid stream. I get the global issue but i also get why the worker has the right to be mad.
This is true, but what about the Haliburton people? Is anyone bailing them out? What about you and me that may have no social security after paying thousand and thousands of dollars into the fund? Who is going to pay us if there is no money.
But a 63 year old who is all bent out of shape because he might have to get another job? The writing on the wall re. pension plans has been there for years and years (heck, we talked about it 20 years ago in grad school). For people to suddenly be shocked that the bottom is falling out is a joke. Yeah, I'd fight for my benefits, too. But I also wouldn't be crying that I might have to go back and work at age 63.
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Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:
It is an issue to have huge pension plans. But do not blame the worker. He / she worked in a system under agreed upon terms (in regard to pension) and the rules are being changed mid stream. I get the global issue but i also get why the worker has the right to be mad.
This is true, but what about the Haliburton people? Is anyone bailing them out? What about you and me that may have no social security after paying thousand and thousands of dollars into the fund? Who is going to pay us if there is no money.
But a 63 year old who is all bent out of shape because he might have to get another job? The writing on the wall re. pension plans has been there for years and years (heck, we talked about it 20 years ago in grad school). For people to suddenly be shocked that the bottom is falling out is a joke. Yeah, I'd fight for my benefits, too. But I also wouldn't be crying that I might have to go back and work at age 63.
This is no different than insurance. My dad just had a heart procedure yesterday. I would guess that he has received over 1 million dollars in medical benefits. My sister's mother in law has received over 2 million in benefits.
Combined, I'd be shocked if they have paid more than $250K in premiums in their life. It's just the way it is. THE NUMBERS DON'T WORK OUT. You can't just turn on a money faucet and expect the sink to just automatically get filled up by everyone else.
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This is no different than insurance. My dad just had a heart procedure yesterday. I would guess that he has received over 1 million dollars in medical benefits. My sister's mother in law has received over 2 million in benefits.
Combined, I'd be shocked if they have paid more than $250K in premiums in their life. It's just the way it is. THE NUMBERS DON'T WORK OUT. You can't just turn on a money faucet and expect the sink to just automatically get filled up by everyone else.
Here's a good one for you. I am a minority business owner with another person. We had a client who went bankrupt and stiffed us for $15K. Not only that, they actually have tried to get us to pay THEM back some additional monies because there are laws re. where your responsibilities lie when it comes to bankruptcy.
Where is the outrage about that? Cost me $5K out of pocket....just because it's a business and this is what businesses do.
So when am I going to get reimbursed? What is the answer I got? It's the price of doing business.
Isn't that grand? Sorry I don't have a lot of sympathy for the 63 year old guy who may not collect his hundreds of thousands of dollars in pension money and might have to go back to work.
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Here's a good one for you. I am a minority business owner with another person. We had a client who went bankrupt and stiffed us for $15K. Not only that, they actually have tried to get us to pay THEM back some additional monies because there are laws re. where your responsibilities lie when it comes to bankruptcy.
Where is the outrage about that? Cost me $5K out of pocket....just because it's a business and this is what businesses do.
So when am I going to get reimbursed? What is the answer I got? It's the price of doing business.
Isn't that grand? Sorry I don't have a lot of sympathy for the 63 year old guy who may not collect his hundreds of thousands of dollars in pension money and might have to go back to work.
Hutch.......we all make/made choices. Your father worked til age 70 either because he wanted to or he didn't plan well enough to be able retire earlier (or had unforeseen circumstances that you didn't mention). The 63 yo in the story put in 40 years & was ready to retire.......40 YEARS! Is that not enough? And let's forget the word "union" for a minute.......not everyone who worked for a defined pension belonged to a union, & that's a word that seems to set people off.
After you've worked for 40 or more years, planned your retirement around what you'd worked for, then had it slashed after the fact, how would you feel? You can't go back & change anything........you can't tell this guy "you should've known better". You chose to be your own boss..........that's great. I'm sure it has its ups & downs. But it was your choice.......& I'm sure you have planned out your retirement accordingly.
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Hutch.......we all make/made choices. Your father worked til age 70 either because he wanted to or he didn't plan well enough to be able retire earlier (or had unforeseen circumstances that you didn't mention). The 63 yo in the story put in 40 years & was ready to retire.......40 YEARS! Is that not enough? And let's forget the word "union" for a minute.......not everyone who worked for a defined pension belonged to a union, & that's a word that seems to set people off.
After you've worked for 40 or more years, planned your retirement around what you'd worked for, then had it slashed after the fact, how would you feel? You can't go back & change anything........you can't tell this guy "you should've known better". You chose to be your own boss..........that's great. I'm sure it has its ups & downs. But it was your choice.......& I'm sure you have planned out your retirement accordingly.
Hutch.......we all make/made choices. Your father worked til age 70 either because he wanted to or he didn't plan well enough to be able retire earlier (or had unforeseen circumstances that you didn't mention). The 63 yo in the story put in 40 years & was ready to retire.......40 YEARS! Is that not enough? And let's forget the word "union" for a minute.......not everyone who worked for a defined pension belonged to a union, & that's a word that seems to set people off.
After you've worked for 40 or more years, planned your retirement around what you'd worked for, then had it slashed after the fact, how would you feel? You can't go back & change anything........you can't tell this guy "you should've known better". You chose to be your own boss..........that's great. I'm sure it has its ups & downs. But it was your choice.......& I'm sure you have planned out your retirement accordingly.
Yup, I will live with the fact that I am losing 5k because of bankruptcy laws. So that means I have to pony up to pay someone's pension? Do you honestly know how much pensions cost companies? He worked for a company that made poor decisions. That is our fault?
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Quote Originally Posted by THEMUGG:
Hutch.......we all make/made choices. Your father worked til age 70 either because he wanted to or he didn't plan well enough to be able retire earlier (or had unforeseen circumstances that you didn't mention). The 63 yo in the story put in 40 years & was ready to retire.......40 YEARS! Is that not enough? And let's forget the word "union" for a minute.......not everyone who worked for a defined pension belonged to a union, & that's a word that seems to set people off.
After you've worked for 40 or more years, planned your retirement around what you'd worked for, then had it slashed after the fact, how would you feel? You can't go back & change anything........you can't tell this guy "you should've known better". You chose to be your own boss..........that's great. I'm sure it has its ups & downs. But it was your choice.......& I'm sure you have planned out your retirement accordingly.
Yup, I will live with the fact that I am losing 5k because of bankruptcy laws. So that means I have to pony up to pay someone's pension? Do you honestly know how much pensions cost companies? He worked for a company that made poor decisions. That is our fault?
And I never said he should have known better. I am saying he should not be shocked based on our economy and recent financial history. "Oh, I can't believe this has happened?" Writing has been on the wall for years. You really think companies can just throw 250k - 350k in pensions for former employees that aren't making them a cent?
I am starting a 2nd business because I don't know if I can depend on anything from Social Security. This guy can't adjust? He worked 40 years. My guess is he got paid for every hour he worked.
I am all for helping a people who can't help themselves. This guy can help himself.
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And I never said he should have known better. I am saying he should not be shocked based on our economy and recent financial history. "Oh, I can't believe this has happened?" Writing has been on the wall for years. You really think companies can just throw 250k - 350k in pensions for former employees that aren't making them a cent?
I am starting a 2nd business because I don't know if I can depend on anything from Social Security. This guy can't adjust? He worked 40 years. My guess is he got paid for every hour he worked.
I am all for helping a people who can't help themselves. This guy can help himself.
So getting stiffed for 15k is just part of the risk of being part of a small business? Even though we had a signed agreement for what the payment would be for services rendered with our client? Very similar to what an employee might sign with an employer. We got stiffed and no one is bailing us out. How is this different?
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So getting stiffed for 15k is just part of the risk of being part of a small business? Even though we had a signed agreement for what the payment would be for services rendered with our client? Very similar to what an employee might sign with an employer. We got stiffed and no one is bailing us out. How is this different?
Can't open the link because I'm on my iPad but I'm sure I know the story. Your government holds a good chunk of the blame here for not regulating pensions to ensure they are funded liabilities vs paying them out of current cash flows.
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Can't open the link because I'm on my iPad but I'm sure I know the story. Your government holds a good chunk of the blame here for not regulating pensions to ensure they are funded liabilities vs paying them out of current cash flows.
Will try again. So if a person gets screwed by a company, there is outrage. If a company gets screwed by a company, it's just business. It has bee the case for years and years. We are all in business for ourselves. As soon as I get paid back for the company that screwed us over, I will start to feel sorry for 63 year old guy.
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Will try again. So if a person gets screwed by a company, there is outrage. If a company gets screwed by a company, it's just business. It has bee the case for years and years. We are all in business for ourselves. As soon as I get paid back for the company that screwed us over, I will start to feel sorry for 63 year old guy.
I was in business for myself for 5 years... I think everybody should be in business at least once in their lifetime.
If you are in business:
You are rich. Can take off anytime you want. You ever deal with a idiot boss (this one is true, BUT an idiot boss is normally MUCH easier to deal with than idiot customers...) Every penny put in the cash register is pure profit.
I had a small craft supply store. Never again. I seriously doubt the service industry that I believe you are in is a major cake walk...
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Hutch,
I was in business for myself for 5 years... I think everybody should be in business at least once in their lifetime.
If you are in business:
You are rich. Can take off anytime you want. You ever deal with a idiot boss (this one is true, BUT an idiot boss is normally MUCH easier to deal with than idiot customers...) Every penny put in the cash register is pure profit.
I had a small craft supply store. Never again. I seriously doubt the service industry that I believe you are in is a major cake walk...
Retired at 63. How many people are able to do that nowadays? I probably won't My dad worked for the State of MN and retired at 70. It's called reality.
My father retired at 49 and never worked another day of his life. He paid cash for all his vehicles and toys. He bought a cheap house when he was 20 and moved up into a better one every ten years paying cash for the difference until he purchased the house he currently lives in. There is NO reason that anyone should ever have to work until they are 60 or 70.
Dad was just a factory worker and mom never worked a day of her life and we had more than most two income factories because they didn't waste all their money on CC and mortgage interest. The problem now days is people want the 250k house when they are 22 and pay 750k for that house by the time its paid off. Then, they pay car interest and CC interest and never get anything saved up.
The reason people work till they are 60 or 70 is because of greed, not because they "have to."
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Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
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Retired at 63. How many people are able to do that nowadays? I probably won't My dad worked for the State of MN and retired at 70. It's called reality.
My father retired at 49 and never worked another day of his life. He paid cash for all his vehicles and toys. He bought a cheap house when he was 20 and moved up into a better one every ten years paying cash for the difference until he purchased the house he currently lives in. There is NO reason that anyone should ever have to work until they are 60 or 70.
Dad was just a factory worker and mom never worked a day of her life and we had more than most two income factories because they didn't waste all their money on CC and mortgage interest. The problem now days is people want the 250k house when they are 22 and pay 750k for that house by the time its paid off. Then, they pay car interest and CC interest and never get anything saved up.
The reason people work till they are 60 or 70 is because of greed, not because they "have to."
Please don't let the riots destroy the USA for another 20 months.
August 2015 and I am officially fully retired and leaving this clusterfukk...
With no dependency on anybody else's support.
Good for you 'Goose.
I hope this means you plan on living on your own retirement assets, minus SS. Lord know, when GenX and later retires, they really must plan on their own retirement, with dwindling SS support.
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Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
Yeah, I have a thought.
Please don't let the riots destroy the USA for another 20 months.
August 2015 and I am officially fully retired and leaving this clusterfukk...
With no dependency on anybody else's support.
Good for you 'Goose.
I hope this means you plan on living on your own retirement assets, minus SS. Lord know, when GenX and later retires, they really must plan on their own retirement, with dwindling SS support.
First: There are risks being in business. I own one, I know. Regarding the company that went bankrupt, you should have told them to bite off. Sue me.
Regarding defined benefits pensions and this case in particular. In a Union situation you give up cash on the barrel head today, for the promise a pension provides. The company has a moral obligation to properly fund their pension liabilities to ensure the dollars are there to meet the obligations and the promises they make during Collective Bargaining.
The person above who indicated that government failed in their responsibility to adequately police these plans is exactly right. I'd go further to suggest we know which political party has most opposed placing such regulations on businesses.
Now, the chickens have come home to roost. This and similar moral and ethical breakdowns regarding pension obligations ( both private and public) will occur at an extremely accelerated pace in the years to come. Don't think for a minute that people of the baby boomer generation will sit idle while this happens. They will (rightly so) feel compelled to receive an honorable retirement and won't settle for struggling. Similarly, young people who are required to pay into Social Security KNOWING that the benefits they receive will be a fraction of what they pay will not be pleased watching what happens to their parents, friends and neighbors.
This will wind up in the government's lap.
I predict major tax increases on people in the 1% class in the very near future with those dollars collected earmarked directly toward retirement causes. There has to be some re-distributon of wealth or The American dollar will cease to exist.
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Sounds like Hutch needs a Snickers Bar.
First: There are risks being in business. I own one, I know. Regarding the company that went bankrupt, you should have told them to bite off. Sue me.
Regarding defined benefits pensions and this case in particular. In a Union situation you give up cash on the barrel head today, for the promise a pension provides. The company has a moral obligation to properly fund their pension liabilities to ensure the dollars are there to meet the obligations and the promises they make during Collective Bargaining.
The person above who indicated that government failed in their responsibility to adequately police these plans is exactly right. I'd go further to suggest we know which political party has most opposed placing such regulations on businesses.
Now, the chickens have come home to roost. This and similar moral and ethical breakdowns regarding pension obligations ( both private and public) will occur at an extremely accelerated pace in the years to come. Don't think for a minute that people of the baby boomer generation will sit idle while this happens. They will (rightly so) feel compelled to receive an honorable retirement and won't settle for struggling. Similarly, young people who are required to pay into Social Security KNOWING that the benefits they receive will be a fraction of what they pay will not be pleased watching what happens to their parents, friends and neighbors.
This will wind up in the government's lap.
I predict major tax increases on people in the 1% class in the very near future with those dollars collected earmarked directly toward retirement causes. There has to be some re-distributon of wealth or The American dollar will cease to exist.
Pension plans are not just the worker taking from the company..
Often times corporations (esp in the past) gave a pension as part of a TOTAL compensation..so workers might get less day to day wages in return for a good pension BENEFIT.
Problem really lies with the corporation, they either intentionally or unintentionally do not properly fund future responsibilities. They take the current benefit of lower workers wages and do not set aside that money and plan for the future need..
You cannot pay big bonuses and continually have profit increases, and thus stock appreciation by properly funding future obligations..
It goes both ways..
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Pension plans are not just the worker taking from the company..
Often times corporations (esp in the past) gave a pension as part of a TOTAL compensation..so workers might get less day to day wages in return for a good pension BENEFIT.
Problem really lies with the corporation, they either intentionally or unintentionally do not properly fund future responsibilities. They take the current benefit of lower workers wages and do not set aside that money and plan for the future need..
You cannot pay big bonuses and continually have profit increases, and thus stock appreciation by properly funding future obligations..
Hutch, lets make this real simple, you cant ask a person to work their whole lives at a company with the belief that if they take lower wages during their working years, they will earn a pension in retirement. That is just plain wrong on every level. Like others have said, if the company is going to offer this stuff, then its on them to figure out exactly how it needs to be funded. After a person puts in their best working years with the belief, that they will have a pension when they retire, suddenly fund out from the company, sorry we cant pay you what we said we would pay you. Thats total BS. So i guess all these people need to just go start over in the working world, even thou their best years are behind them now and will be tough to compete for jobs with the better in shape younger workers. On top of that, they probably wont have enough working years left to actually fund any type of retirement. So you want to sit here and blame the worker? Get real, this is all on the company. I have no problem, if a company doesnt want to offer a pension plan or health insurance or any other benefits but they need to tell the worker from day one about that, so that worker can decide if they still want to work for that company or start a career at another job. So sick of reading all the stories put out by big business blaming the workers, when the truth is, its the greedy companies fault.
Am sure if you worked for a company instead of yourself and your weekly paycheck was supposed to be 1000 bucks a week, but every week when you picked up your check, it was only for 400 and the company said sorry we cant pay you the 1000 we promised to pay you for your work. I doubt you would okay with that and be blaming yourself for the company not being able to pay you.
You just cant have companies telling employees what they will earn and then never actually paying up, after using them for their whole working lives.
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Hutch, lets make this real simple, you cant ask a person to work their whole lives at a company with the belief that if they take lower wages during their working years, they will earn a pension in retirement. That is just plain wrong on every level. Like others have said, if the company is going to offer this stuff, then its on them to figure out exactly how it needs to be funded. After a person puts in their best working years with the belief, that they will have a pension when they retire, suddenly fund out from the company, sorry we cant pay you what we said we would pay you. Thats total BS. So i guess all these people need to just go start over in the working world, even thou their best years are behind them now and will be tough to compete for jobs with the better in shape younger workers. On top of that, they probably wont have enough working years left to actually fund any type of retirement. So you want to sit here and blame the worker? Get real, this is all on the company. I have no problem, if a company doesnt want to offer a pension plan or health insurance or any other benefits but they need to tell the worker from day one about that, so that worker can decide if they still want to work for that company or start a career at another job. So sick of reading all the stories put out by big business blaming the workers, when the truth is, its the greedy companies fault.
Am sure if you worked for a company instead of yourself and your weekly paycheck was supposed to be 1000 bucks a week, but every week when you picked up your check, it was only for 400 and the company said sorry we cant pay you the 1000 we promised to pay you for your work. I doubt you would okay with that and be blaming yourself for the company not being able to pay you.
You just cant have companies telling employees what they will earn and then never actually paying up, after using them for their whole working lives.
Hutch, lets make this real simple, you cant ask a person to work their whole lives at a company with the belief that if they take lower wages during their working years, they will earn a pension in retirement. That is just plain wrong on every level. Like others have said, if the company is going to offer this stuff, then its on them to figure out exactly how it needs to be funded. After a person puts in their best working years with the belief, that they will have a pension when they retire, suddenly fund out from the company, sorry we cant pay you what we said we would pay you. Thats total BS. So i guess all these people need to just go start over in the working world, even thou their best years are behind them now and will be tough to compete for jobs with the better in shape younger workers. On top of that, they probably wont have enough working years left to actually fund any type of retirement. So you want to sit here and blame the worker? Get real, this is all on the company. I have no problem, if a company doesnt want to offer a pension plan or health insurance or any other benefits but they need to tell the worker from day one about that, so that worker can decide if they still want to work for that company or start a career at another job. So sick of reading all the stories put out by big business blaming the workers, when the truth is, its the greedy companies fault.
Am sure if you worked for a company instead of yourself and your weekly paycheck was supposed to be 1000 bucks a week, but every week when you picked up your check, it was only for 400 and the company said sorry we cant pay you the 1000 we promised to pay you for your work. I doubt you would okay with that and be blaming yourself for the company not being able to pay you.
You just cant have companies telling employees what they will earn and then never actually paying up, after using them for their whole working lives.
Anybody in their right mind should prefer a 401(k) to a pension. Take care of your own money,..... and keep it.
Ask yourself a basic question ; would I want to place the fortunes of my retirement in the hands of a corporation, or city government, etc.
Go ask the folks that worked at GM, Chrysler, city of Detroit, ...
For those that say a pension was part of their compensation package ; bologna.. They only received those packages because they had a greedy a$$ Union behind them, and helped negotiate ridiculous health benefits to boot.
The contracts are unsustainable, people !!!! There's a reason why those companies and cities did not succeed !!!
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
Hutch, lets make this real simple, you cant ask a person to work their whole lives at a company with the belief that if they take lower wages during their working years, they will earn a pension in retirement. That is just plain wrong on every level. Like others have said, if the company is going to offer this stuff, then its on them to figure out exactly how it needs to be funded. After a person puts in their best working years with the belief, that they will have a pension when they retire, suddenly fund out from the company, sorry we cant pay you what we said we would pay you. Thats total BS. So i guess all these people need to just go start over in the working world, even thou their best years are behind them now and will be tough to compete for jobs with the better in shape younger workers. On top of that, they probably wont have enough working years left to actually fund any type of retirement. So you want to sit here and blame the worker? Get real, this is all on the company. I have no problem, if a company doesnt want to offer a pension plan or health insurance or any other benefits but they need to tell the worker from day one about that, so that worker can decide if they still want to work for that company or start a career at another job. So sick of reading all the stories put out by big business blaming the workers, when the truth is, its the greedy companies fault.
Am sure if you worked for a company instead of yourself and your weekly paycheck was supposed to be 1000 bucks a week, but every week when you picked up your check, it was only for 400 and the company said sorry we cant pay you the 1000 we promised to pay you for your work. I doubt you would okay with that and be blaming yourself for the company not being able to pay you.
You just cant have companies telling employees what they will earn and then never actually paying up, after using them for their whole working lives.
Anybody in their right mind should prefer a 401(k) to a pension. Take care of your own money,..... and keep it.
Ask yourself a basic question ; would I want to place the fortunes of my retirement in the hands of a corporation, or city government, etc.
Go ask the folks that worked at GM, Chrysler, city of Detroit, ...
For those that say a pension was part of their compensation package ; bologna.. They only received those packages because they had a greedy a$$ Union behind them, and helped negotiate ridiculous health benefits to boot.
The contracts are unsustainable, people !!!! There's a reason why those companies and cities did not succeed !!!
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