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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 656667 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    SYSTEM
    SirJohnDrake
    Rostos
    jagerfury
    Mikniks
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    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:33 PM ET #1601

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.


    too bad you don't use your brain 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.


    too bad you don't use your brain 
     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:34 PM ET #1602

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...


    you not answering, answers the question 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...


    you not answering, answers the question 
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 7:42 PM ET #1603

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

    There is no evidence on what caused the universe to be created.

    We believe the cause was by Almighty God.

    So what do you believe caused the universe to be created? Your answer has to be either you just don't know or it was just a freak accident...am I right?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

    There is no evidence on what caused the universe to be created.

    We believe the cause was by Almighty God.

    So what do you believe caused the universe to be created? Your answer has to be either you just don't know or it was just a freak accident...am I right?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 8:00 PM ET #1604

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

    LOLOLOL,

    WHAT CAUSED the universe to come into existence?

    The universe BEGAN to exist.

    When the universe began to exist, space, time and matter began to exist. Prior to this The cause of the universe logically must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial. Hence the atheists dillemna, they have now been cornered because they dont believe in anything that spaceless, timeless and immaterial.

    The most logical cause of the universe is a spaceless, timeless and immaterial mind UNLESS you believe the universe popped into existence out of NOTHING, BY NOTHING , FOR NOTHING.

    You see the implications of athestic beliefs....?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    There is a shit-ton of evidence of how the universe was created. Physical, measurable, evidence. Major components of the formation of the universe are well known. Your proposition is utterly false, next.

    LOLOLOL,

    WHAT CAUSED the universe to come into existence?

    The universe BEGAN to exist.

    When the universe began to exist, space, time and matter began to exist. Prior to this The cause of the universe logically must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial. Hence the atheists dillemna, they have now been cornered because they dont believe in anything that spaceless, timeless and immaterial.

    The most logical cause of the universe is a spaceless, timeless and immaterial mind UNLESS you believe the universe popped into existence out of NOTHING, BY NOTHING , FOR NOTHING.

    You see the implications of athestic beliefs....?

     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 8:40 PM ET #1605

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    There is no evidence on what caused the universe to be created.

    We believe the cause was by Almighty God.

    So what do you believe caused the universe to be created? Your answer has to be either you just don't know or it was just a freak accident...am I right?

    Ahh... the gap theory;

    The gap theory became increasingly attractive during the end of the eighteenth century and first half of the nineteenth century, as the new scientific discipline of geology made it increasingly obvious that Earth was far older than a straightforward, literal interpretation of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. The gap theory provided an attractive escape from this dilemma, allowing religious geologists to preserve both their faith in the Bible and in the new authority of science, which, according to the doctrine of natural theology, was now considered a second revelation—God's word in nature as well as in scripture. The two revelations could not contradict each other; some means of reconciliation had to be found. (Another popular approach was simply to denounce science, and geology in particular, as being atheistic and impious.

    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    There is no evidence on what caused the universe to be created.

    We believe the cause was by Almighty God.

    So what do you believe caused the universe to be created? Your answer has to be either you just don't know or it was just a freak accident...am I right?

    Ahh... the gap theory;

    The gap theory became increasingly attractive during the end of the eighteenth century and first half of the nineteenth century, as the new scientific discipline of geology made it increasingly obvious that Earth was far older than a straightforward, literal interpretation of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. The gap theory provided an attractive escape from this dilemma, allowing religious geologists to preserve both their faith in the Bible and in the new authority of science, which, according to the doctrine of natural theology, was now considered a second revelation—God's word in nature as well as in scripture. The two revelations could not contradict each other; some means of reconciliation had to be found. (Another popular approach was simply to denounce science, and geology in particular, as being atheistic and impious.

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 9:00 PM ET #1606

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Ahh... the gap theory;

    The gap theory became increasingly attractive during the end of the eighteenth century and first half of the nineteenth century, as the new scientific discipline of geology made it increasingly obvious that Earth was far older than a straightforward, literal interpretation of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. The gap theory provided an attractive escape from this dilemma, allowing religious geologists to preserve both their faith in the Bible and in the new authority of science, which, according to the doctrine of natural theology, was now considered a second revelation—God's word in nature as well as in scripture. The two revelations could not contradict each other; some means of reconciliation had to be found. (Another popular approach was simply to denounce science, and geology in particular, as being atheistic and impious.

    Oh, how hypocritical.....

    We dont know how the first cell came into existence, but science will know one day.

    we dont know what caused the universe, but science will find out one day...

    There's your gap theory, science of the gaps........Dont go around spinning your hypocrtical thoughts here......

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Ahh... the gap theory;

    The gap theory became increasingly attractive during the end of the eighteenth century and first half of the nineteenth century, as the new scientific discipline of geology made it increasingly obvious that Earth was far older than a straightforward, literal interpretation of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. The gap theory provided an attractive escape from this dilemma, allowing religious geologists to preserve both their faith in the Bible and in the new authority of science, which, according to the doctrine of natural theology, was now considered a second revelation—God's word in nature as well as in scripture. The two revelations could not contradict each other; some means of reconciliation had to be found. (Another popular approach was simply to denounce science, and geology in particular, as being atheistic and impious.

    Oh, how hypocritical.....

    We dont know how the first cell came into existence, but science will know one day.

    we dont know what caused the universe, but science will find out one day...

    There's your gap theory, science of the gaps........Dont go around spinning your hypocrtical thoughts here......

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 7, 2011 - 9:05 PM ET #1607

    Oh, and i am also waiting for a response to to post 1605
    Reply
    Oh, and i am also waiting for a response to to post 1605
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 2:23 AM ET #1608

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.

    How am I being stubborn?  I said I WANT to believe in a god, but I just can't...

    And Rostos, about the whole people wanting to believe in god thing: I feel that way because I think people want to know that someone is always watching over them.  I feel they also want to believe that there is something after this life.  They want to believe that their friends and relatives who have died are in a better place.  I think everyone wants to believe in god and heaven because it is so much better than NO god and heaven...  But that's just what I think...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    We can't say what is fair and what is not, all I know is that God is just.

     He the Creator makes the rules that we must abide by and not us. You just can't think in your terms.

    and when you say your brain doesn't allow you to believe in Him...it just shows your stubborness and self-righteouness.

    How am I being stubborn?  I said I WANT to believe in a god, but I just can't...

    And Rostos, about the whole people wanting to believe in god thing: I feel that way because I think people want to know that someone is always watching over them.  I feel they also want to believe that there is something after this life.  They want to believe that their friends and relatives who have died are in a better place.  I think everyone wants to believe in god and heaven because it is so much better than NO god and heaven...  But that's just what I think...
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 2:25 AM ET #1609

    I also have a theory as to why men are better drivers than women if you wanna hear that too 
    Reply
    I also have a theory as to why men are better drivers than women if you wanna hear that too 
     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:42 AM ET #1610

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    LOLOLOL,

    WHAT CAUSED the universe to come into existence?

    The universe BEGAN to exist.

    When the universe began to exist, space, time and matter began to exist. Prior to this The cause of the universe logically must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial. Hence the atheists dillemna, they have now been cornered because they dont believe in anything that spaceless, timeless and immaterial.

    The most logical cause of the universe is a spaceless, timeless and immaterial mind UNLESS you believe the universe popped into existence out of NOTHING, BY NOTHING , FOR NOTHING.

    You see the implications of athestic beliefs....?

    I understand you are in the deep water, I understand the simple refutation of your gap theory by the above example is over your head intellectually. Not only is your postion that gaps in current knowledge can only be filled by god proved false by my quote above, it absolutely blows your position out of the water. A cursory knowledge of logic, philospohy, hell even time spent on the debate team would be able to see your statement, or the one I wrote and go, "your statement is a false equivalency, next.  Once again, I understand this is over your head, but any entry level college student understands why your proposed proof of god by way of gaps in human knowledge is not evidence of her existence. The fact you can't get your head around it is not the fault of others. It is once again an abject fail, or in your case, outright refusal to use/practice your intellectual faculties. Next...
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    LOLOLOL,

    WHAT CAUSED the universe to come into existence?

    The universe BEGAN to exist.

    When the universe began to exist, space, time and matter began to exist. Prior to this The cause of the universe logically must be spaceless, timeless and immaterial. Hence the atheists dillemna, they have now been cornered because they dont believe in anything that spaceless, timeless and immaterial.

    The most logical cause of the universe is a spaceless, timeless and immaterial mind UNLESS you believe the universe popped into existence out of NOTHING, BY NOTHING , FOR NOTHING.

    You see the implications of athestic beliefs....?

    I understand you are in the deep water, I understand the simple refutation of your gap theory by the above example is over your head intellectually. Not only is your postion that gaps in current knowledge can only be filled by god proved false by my quote above, it absolutely blows your position out of the water. A cursory knowledge of logic, philospohy, hell even time spent on the debate team would be able to see your statement, or the one I wrote and go, "your statement is a false equivalency, next.  Once again, I understand this is over your head, but any entry level college student understands why your proposed proof of god by way of gaps in human knowledge is not evidence of her existence. The fact you can't get your head around it is not the fault of others. It is once again an abject fail, or in your case, outright refusal to use/practice your intellectual faculties. Next...
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 9:07 AM ET #1611

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    I understand you are in the deep water, I understand the simple refutation of your gap theory by the above example is over your head intellectually. Not only is your postion that gaps in current knowledge can only be filled by god proved false by my quote above, it absolutely blows your position out of the water. A cursory knowledge of logic, philospohy, hell even time spent on the debate team would be able to see your statement, or the one I wrote and go, "your statement is a false equivalency, next.  Once again, I understand this is over your head, but any entry level college student understands why your proposed proof of god by way of gaps in human knowledge is not evidence of her existence. The fact you can't get your head around it is not the fault of others. It is once again an abject fail, or in your case, outright refusal to use/practice your intellectual faculties. Next...

    I thought so, the typical atheist reponse to the Cosmological argument. Trapped into a corner, no where to move and dance around the argument with nothing by dribble....

    You are not even a philosophical lightweight.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    I understand you are in the deep water, I understand the simple refutation of your gap theory by the above example is over your head intellectually. Not only is your postion that gaps in current knowledge can only be filled by god proved false by my quote above, it absolutely blows your position out of the water. A cursory knowledge of logic, philospohy, hell even time spent on the debate team would be able to see your statement, or the one I wrote and go, "your statement is a false equivalency, next.  Once again, I understand this is over your head, but any entry level college student understands why your proposed proof of god by way of gaps in human knowledge is not evidence of her existence. The fact you can't get your head around it is not the fault of others. It is once again an abject fail, or in your case, outright refusal to use/practice your intellectual faculties. Next...

    I thought so, the typical atheist reponse to the Cosmological argument. Trapped into a corner, no where to move and dance around the argument with nothing by dribble....

    You are not even a philosophical lightweight.

     
    pardo3
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 11:38 AM ET #1612

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    I also have a theory as to why men are better drivers than women if you wanna hear that too 

    You forgot how bad Asian drivers are too

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    I also have a theory as to why men are better drivers than women if you wanna hear that too 

    You forgot how bad Asian drivers are too

     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 1:33 PM ET #1613

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I thought so, the typical atheist reponse to the Cosmological argument. Trapped into a corner, no where to move and dance around the argument with nothing by dribble....

    You are not even a philosophical lightweight.

    From the gap theory, to the argument from ignorance. You guys are dogs chasing your tail...

    The Arguments from ignorance, a lack of evidence for one view is erroneously argued to constitute proof of the correctness of another view. You are assuming a false dichotomy, and once again showing your ignorance. That is all you have demonstrated.

    Here are the others you will come up with;

    1. Red herring
    2. Unfounded rhetoric.
    3. Ad hominem
    4. Special Pleading logic fallacy
    5. Appeals to argument of ignorance logic fallacy (check)
    6. Hand-wave off evidence.
    7. Strawman
    8. Circular reasoning (especially begging the issue that Irreducible Complexity has not yet been falsified)
    9. Irrelevance
    10. Illogical inferences and non sequitur
    11. False dichotomies (check)
    12. Using outdated references and obsolete sources in support of the position of (fill in blank)...

    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I thought so, the typical atheist reponse to the Cosmological argument. Trapped into a corner, no where to move and dance around the argument with nothing by dribble....

    You are not even a philosophical lightweight.

    From the gap theory, to the argument from ignorance. You guys are dogs chasing your tail...

    The Arguments from ignorance, a lack of evidence for one view is erroneously argued to constitute proof of the correctness of another view. You are assuming a false dichotomy, and once again showing your ignorance. That is all you have demonstrated.

    Here are the others you will come up with;

    1. Red herring
    2. Unfounded rhetoric.
    3. Ad hominem
    4. Special Pleading logic fallacy
    5. Appeals to argument of ignorance logic fallacy (check)
    6. Hand-wave off evidence.
    7. Strawman
    8. Circular reasoning (especially begging the issue that Irreducible Complexity has not yet been falsified)
    9. Irrelevance
    10. Illogical inferences and non sequitur
    11. False dichotomies (check)
    12. Using outdated references and obsolete sources in support of the position of (fill in blank)...

     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 3:27 PM ET #1614

    Quote Originally Posted by pardo3:

    You forgot how bad Asian drivers are too



    Actually they are part of the theory lol
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by pardo3:

    You forgot how bad Asian drivers are too



    Actually they are part of the theory lol
     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
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    Posts: 2955
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 5:22 PM ET #1615

    You don't have to go far, here is a prime example of unfounded rhetoric;

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...

    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply

    You don't have to go far, here is a prime example of unfounded rhetoric;

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I know one thing, God is fair and will judge righteously.

    Maybe, just maybe Mikmiks based on what he says will go to heavan, i dont know, i am guessing, but i know that God is fair and will judge right, thats all i can say...

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 7:11 PM ET #1616

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    From the gap theory, to the argument from ignorance. You guys are dogs chasing your tail...

    The Arguments from ignorance, a lack of evidence for one view is erroneously argued to constitute proof of the correctness of another view. You are assuming a false dichotomy, and once again showing your ignorance. That is all you have demonstrated.

    Here are the others you will come up with;

    1. Red herring
    2. Unfounded rhetoric.
    3. Ad hominem
    4. Special Pleading logic fallacy
    5. Appeals to argument of ignorance logic fallacy (check)
    6. Hand-wave off evidence.
    7. Strawman
    8. Circular reasoning (especially begging the issue that Irreducible Complexity has not yet been falsified)
    9. Irrelevance
    10. Illogical inferences and non sequitur
    11. False dichotomies (check)
    12. Using outdated references and obsolete sources in support of the position of (fill in blank)...

     

    The Cosmological argument in isolation does not prove the Christian God but it certainly renders atheism false.

    LOLOLOL, you are listing a number of supposed flaws in my logic, but nothing beats the atheists mantra -

    "things pop into existence out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing".

    Atheists

    Why dont you go and debunk my cosmological argument bit by bit instead of going to a philosophy website, grabbing a bunch of words you dont understand and listing them as if they are relevant to my argument. The fact that you did PROVES you dont even know what they mean. Cmon, why dont you apply those terms against the cosmological argument??? Because you cant.

    Thats all what you have done, tapped around the argument because you have no answer....

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    From the gap theory, to the argument from ignorance. You guys are dogs chasing your tail...

    The Arguments from ignorance, a lack of evidence for one view is erroneously argued to constitute proof of the correctness of another view. You are assuming a false dichotomy, and once again showing your ignorance. That is all you have demonstrated.

    Here are the others you will come up with;

    1. Red herring
    2. Unfounded rhetoric.
    3. Ad hominem
    4. Special Pleading logic fallacy
    5. Appeals to argument of ignorance logic fallacy (check)
    6. Hand-wave off evidence.
    7. Strawman
    8. Circular reasoning (especially begging the issue that Irreducible Complexity has not yet been falsified)
    9. Irrelevance
    10. Illogical inferences and non sequitur
    11. False dichotomies (check)
    12. Using outdated references and obsolete sources in support of the position of (fill in blank)...

     

    The Cosmological argument in isolation does not prove the Christian God but it certainly renders atheism false.

    LOLOLOL, you are listing a number of supposed flaws in my logic, but nothing beats the atheists mantra -

    "things pop into existence out of nothing, by nothing, for nothing".

    Atheists

    Why dont you go and debunk my cosmological argument bit by bit instead of going to a philosophy website, grabbing a bunch of words you dont understand and listing them as if they are relevant to my argument. The fact that you did PROVES you dont even know what they mean. Cmon, why dont you apply those terms against the cosmological argument??? Because you cant.

    Thats all what you have done, tapped around the argument because you have no answer....

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 7:12 PM ET #1617

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Oh, how convinient, cut and paste my sentence out of its context.

     

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by jagerfury:

    Oh, how convinient, cut and paste my sentence out of its context.

     

     
    Rostos
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    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 7:14 PM ET #1618

     Cmon Jagerfury, debunk the cosmological argument,

    When i mean debunk, deconstruct it bit by bit, and no, dont go and copy and paste a bunch of words you dont understand. The fact that you did this illustrates you have no idea.

    The typical atheistic response when backed into a corner.....

    "Something can come from nothing in this natural world."

    Reply

     Cmon Jagerfury, debunk the cosmological argument,

    When i mean debunk, deconstruct it bit by bit, and no, dont go and copy and paste a bunch of words you dont understand. The fact that you did this illustrates you have no idea.

    The typical atheistic response when backed into a corner.....

    "Something can come from nothing in this natural world."

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 7:30 PM ET #1619

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

     
    How am I being stubborn?  I said I WANT to believe in a god, but I just can't...

    Since God created spiritual beings for the purpose of expressing love, those beings must have complete free will in order to express that love. Of course, free will allows for the possibility of those beings rejecting God and His plans.

    Unfortunately, most people do not agree that God's rules are good and do not want to live by them. In fact, the vast majority of people want to run their own lives without submitting to God at all.

    Somehow, they feel that God will just let them into heaven because they have behaved about as good, and maybe even better, compared to the rest of the people on earth. The problem with this idea is that God does not grade on the curve.

    All who enter God's kingdom must be absolutely holy, since no sin is allowed in God's presence. In addition, people must be willing to allow God to prevent them from sinning ever again, since there is no sin in heaven. This means that people must be willing to submit fully to God's will in order to get into heaven. Of course, all humans fall short of God's moral requirements.

     Therefore, God has made a provision to erase all sins that we have committed in this life and to perfect us so that we cannot sin in the next life.

    That provision for sin is through the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve and gives us the reward that we do not deserve - eternal life. In accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, all our sins are erased, and Jesus works to change us into His image (if we allow Him to do so).

    People prefer hell over complete submission to God

    So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God).

    All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity.

    People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

    Conclusion

    At this time in history, there is more evidence demonstrating the existence of God than at any time in the past. There are missionaries throughout the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers as a free gift.

    Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell.

     Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

     
    How am I being stubborn?  I said I WANT to believe in a god, but I just can't...

    Since God created spiritual beings for the purpose of expressing love, those beings must have complete free will in order to express that love. Of course, free will allows for the possibility of those beings rejecting God and His plans.

    Unfortunately, most people do not agree that God's rules are good and do not want to live by them. In fact, the vast majority of people want to run their own lives without submitting to God at all.

    Somehow, they feel that God will just let them into heaven because they have behaved about as good, and maybe even better, compared to the rest of the people on earth. The problem with this idea is that God does not grade on the curve.

    All who enter God's kingdom must be absolutely holy, since no sin is allowed in God's presence. In addition, people must be willing to allow God to prevent them from sinning ever again, since there is no sin in heaven. This means that people must be willing to submit fully to God's will in order to get into heaven. Of course, all humans fall short of God's moral requirements.

     Therefore, God has made a provision to erase all sins that we have committed in this life and to perfect us so that we cannot sin in the next life.

    That provision for sin is through the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve and gives us the reward that we do not deserve - eternal life. In accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, all our sins are erased, and Jesus works to change us into His image (if we allow Him to do so).

    People prefer hell over complete submission to God

    So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God).

    All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity.

    People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

    Conclusion

    At this time in history, there is more evidence demonstrating the existence of God than at any time in the past. There are missionaries throughout the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers as a free gift.

    Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell.

     Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.

     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2010
    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:10 PM ET #1620

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Since God created spiritual beings for the purpose of expressing love, those beings must have complete free will in order to express that love. Of course, free will allows for the possibility of those beings rejecting God and His plans.

    Unfortunately, most people do not agree that God's rules are good and do not want to live by them. In fact, the vast majority of people want to run their own lives without submitting to God at all.

    Somehow, they feel that God will just let them into heaven because they have behaved about as good, and maybe even better, compared to the rest of the people on earth. The problem with this idea is that God does not grade on the curve.

    All who enter God's kingdom must be absolutely holy, since no sin is allowed in God's presence. In addition, people must be willing to allow God to prevent them from sinning ever again, since there is no sin in heaven. This means that people must be willing to submit fully to God's will in order to get into heaven. Of course, all humans fall short of God's moral requirements.

     Therefore, God has made a provision to erase all sins that we have committed in this life and to perfect us so that we cannot sin in the next life.

    That provision for sin is through the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve and gives us the reward that we do not deserve - eternal life. In accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, all our sins are erased, and Jesus works to change us into His image (if we allow Him to do so).

    People prefer hell over complete submission to God

    So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God).

    All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity.

    People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

    Conclusion

    At this time in history, there is more evidence demonstrating the existence of God than at any time in the past. There are missionaries throughout the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers as a free gift.

    Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell.

     Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.



    This is the most absolutely dumbest post you've ever made...  There is more evidence then ever???  There is ZERO evidence right now, and you need to stop quoting the bible.  You have to prove god exists before you can use the bible as proof...  It would be like me saying well Harry Potter is real because I read it in a book...

    I was actually getting along with Rostos and you had to come in and say something this dumb...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Since God created spiritual beings for the purpose of expressing love, those beings must have complete free will in order to express that love. Of course, free will allows for the possibility of those beings rejecting God and His plans.

    Unfortunately, most people do not agree that God's rules are good and do not want to live by them. In fact, the vast majority of people want to run their own lives without submitting to God at all.

    Somehow, they feel that God will just let them into heaven because they have behaved about as good, and maybe even better, compared to the rest of the people on earth. The problem with this idea is that God does not grade on the curve.

    All who enter God's kingdom must be absolutely holy, since no sin is allowed in God's presence. In addition, people must be willing to allow God to prevent them from sinning ever again, since there is no sin in heaven. This means that people must be willing to submit fully to God's will in order to get into heaven. Of course, all humans fall short of God's moral requirements.

     Therefore, God has made a provision to erase all sins that we have committed in this life and to perfect us so that we cannot sin in the next life.

    That provision for sin is through the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve and gives us the reward that we do not deserve - eternal life. In accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, all our sins are erased, and Jesus works to change us into His image (if we allow Him to do so).

    People prefer hell over complete submission to God

    So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God).

    All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity.

    People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

    Conclusion

    At this time in history, there is more evidence demonstrating the existence of God than at any time in the past. There are missionaries throughout the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers as a free gift.

    Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell.

     Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.



    This is the most absolutely dumbest post you've ever made...  There is more evidence then ever???  There is ZERO evidence right now, and you need to stop quoting the bible.  You have to prove god exists before you can use the bible as proof...  It would be like me saying well Harry Potter is real because I read it in a book...

    I was actually getting along with Rostos and you had to come in and say something this dumb...
     
    MilesZona
    MilesZona
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    Joined: Apr, 2010
    Posts: 2418
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:31 PM ET #1621

    SirJohnDrake I have a few questions
    I'm catholic and being that god forgives all sins what would be the difference in a catholic person being holy and following all gods commandments and attending church every Sunday as oppose to a catholic who does many wrongs and lets say becomes extremely holy and follows all gods commandment and goes to church at 60yrs old for the remaining of his life. Would the 60yr old be allowed into heaven?
    Reply
    SirJohnDrake I have a few questions
    I'm catholic and being that god forgives all sins what would be the difference in a catholic person being holy and following all gods commandments and attending church every Sunday as oppose to a catholic who does many wrongs and lets say becomes extremely holy and follows all gods commandment and goes to church at 60yrs old for the remaining of his life. Would the 60yr old be allowed into heaven?
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:34 PM ET #1622

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

     

    How am I being stubborn?
     
     
    Just by how you reacted in my last post shows how you are being stubborn...I rest my case!
     
    You sir! If you keep up your stubborness will have no chance to go to heaven someday. You must sumitt to God, give up your sinful ways, accept Jesus Christ as you Lord Savior, then and only then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits you, other than that...no chance...I repeat no chance...and it's not me saying it but what God is saying in the Holy Bible of which is written.
     
    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

     

    How am I being stubborn?
     
     
    Just by how you reacted in my last post shows how you are being stubborn...I rest my case!
     
    You sir! If you keep up your stubborness will have no chance to go to heaven someday. You must sumitt to God, give up your sinful ways, accept Jesus Christ as you Lord Savior, then and only then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits you, other than that...no chance...I repeat no chance...and it's not me saying it but what God is saying in the Holy Bible of which is written.
     
     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:41 PM ET #1623

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

     
     
    Just by how you reacted in my last post shows how you are being stubborn...I rest my case!
     
    You sir! If you keep up your stubborness will have no chance to go to heaven someday. You must sumitt to God, give up your sinful ways, accept Jesus Christ as you Lord Savior, then and only then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits you, other than that...no chance...I repeat no chance...and it's not me saying it but what God is saying in the Holy Bible of which is written.
     

    STOP USING THE BIBLE AS PROOF OF ANYTHING!!!  Until you prove god exists, you can NOT consider the bible to be proof of anything...  I'm not being stubborn at all...  I want to believe in god, but there is 0 evidence, so why would I?

    You are the one being stubborn.  You refuse to listen to anything anyone else says and instead continue to preach your bullshit that you have ZERO proof of.  Like I said, until you prove god exists, you can NOT use the bible as proof of anything...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

     
     
    Just by how you reacted in my last post shows how you are being stubborn...I rest my case!
     
    You sir! If you keep up your stubborness will have no chance to go to heaven someday. You must sumitt to God, give up your sinful ways, accept Jesus Christ as you Lord Savior, then and only then paradise in God's Kingdom of Heaven awaits you, other than that...no chance...I repeat no chance...and it's not me saying it but what God is saying in the Holy Bible of which is written.
     

    STOP USING THE BIBLE AS PROOF OF ANYTHING!!!  Until you prove god exists, you can NOT consider the bible to be proof of anything...  I'm not being stubborn at all...  I want to believe in god, but there is 0 evidence, so why would I?

    You are the one being stubborn.  You refuse to listen to anything anyone else says and instead continue to preach your bullshit that you have ZERO proof of.  Like I said, until you prove god exists, you can NOT use the bible as proof of anything...
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 8:52 PM ET #1624

    Quote Originally Posted by MilesZona:

    SirJohnDrake I have a few questions
    I'm catholic and being that god forgives all sins what would be the difference in a catholic person being holy and following all gods commandments and attending church every Sunday as oppose to a catholic who does many wrongs and lets say becomes extremely holy and follows all gods commandment and goes to church at 60yrs old for the remaining of his life. Would the 60yr old be allowed into heaven?

    Yes indeed he will be allowed into heaven because that 60 year old man finally submitted to God and became extremely holy meaning he obeyed and didn't break any of God's commandments and laws for the rest of whatever life he has remaining here on earth.

    So along with the first person you mentioned, and the 60 yr. old man who did wrong but eventually did change his ways, both will go to heaven.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by MilesZona:

    SirJohnDrake I have a few questions
    I'm catholic and being that god forgives all sins what would be the difference in a catholic person being holy and following all gods commandments and attending church every Sunday as oppose to a catholic who does many wrongs and lets say becomes extremely holy and follows all gods commandment and goes to church at 60yrs old for the remaining of his life. Would the 60yr old be allowed into heaven?

    Yes indeed he will be allowed into heaven because that 60 year old man finally submitted to God and became extremely holy meaning he obeyed and didn't break any of God's commandments and laws for the rest of whatever life he has remaining here on earth.

    So along with the first person you mentioned, and the 60 yr. old man who did wrong but eventually did change his ways, both will go to heaven.

     
     
    Mikniks
    Mikniks
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    Posts: 1384
    Posted: Dec. 8, 2011 - 9:25 PM ET #1625

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Yes indeed he will be allowed into heaven because that 60 year old man finally submitted to God and became extremely holy meaning he obeyed and didn't break any of God's commandments and laws for the rest of whatever life he has remaining here on earth.

    So along with the first person you mentioned, and the 60 yr. old man who did wrong but eventually did change his ways, both will go to heaven.


    Are you kidding me?!?  Even Rostos will agree with me here, you are no position to judge.  You have no idea how god, if he exists, would judge anyone...

    AND DON'T USE THE BIBLE TO MAKE YOUR POINT!!  You are not allowed to do that since it can not be used as proof...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    Yes indeed he will be allowed into heaven because that 60 year old man finally submitted to God and became extremely holy meaning he obeyed and didn't break any of God's commandments and laws for the rest of whatever life he has remaining here on earth.

    So along with the first person you mentioned, and the 60 yr. old man who did wrong but eventually did change his ways, both will go to heaven.


    Are you kidding me?!?  Even Rostos will agree with me here, you are no position to judge.  You have no idea how god, if he exists, would judge anyone...

    AND DON'T USE THE BIBLE TO MAKE YOUR POINT!!  You are not allowed to do that since it can not be used as proof...
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