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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 199200201 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    SirJohnDrake
    SALTY
    HutchEmAll
    SYSTEM
    vanzack
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    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 1:20 PM ET #4951

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?


    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.

    What are you trying to do...make a mockery out of the Christian religion? Well I'm sorry you are not doing a good job.

    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.

    So killing yourself is a sinful murderous act which is disobeying the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    C'mon wake up and drink some coffee will ya?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?


    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.

    What are you trying to do...make a mockery out of the Christian religion? Well I'm sorry you are not doing a good job.

    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.

    So killing yourself is a sinful murderous act which is disobeying the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    C'mon wake up and drink some coffee will ya?

     
    SALTY
    SALTY
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    Joined: Aug, 2007
    Posts: 4800
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 1:37 PM ET #4952

    Proof that Jesus is an asshole

    Reply
    Proof that Jesus is an asshole

     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 3:55 PM ET #4953

    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.
    ______________

    Why is it wrong?  

    Would you agree that God forgives sinners and will still let them into heaven if they truly believe?

    If so, why is committing suicide wrong?  You still go to heaven (which is the ultimate goal according to you).  

    Stealing from someone.  I can see how that is wrong as you're taking something from someone.  Committing adultery.  Same thing.  I can see how you would be hurting someone.  

    But committing suicide?  So I'm a single guy.  The rest of my family has died.  Why would it be wrong for me to commit suicide to speed up the process for me to get to heaven to see my loved ones?

    It would certainly bring me more comfort.  I would hope that it would bring God more comfort as he knows I would be back with my loved ones forever.

    I don't see a loser in this scenario.  Can you explain this to me?
    Reply
    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.
    ______________

    Why is it wrong?  

    Would you agree that God forgives sinners and will still let them into heaven if they truly believe?

    If so, why is committing suicide wrong?  You still go to heaven (which is the ultimate goal according to you).  

    Stealing from someone.  I can see how that is wrong as you're taking something from someone.  Committing adultery.  Same thing.  I can see how you would be hurting someone.  

    But committing suicide?  So I'm a single guy.  The rest of my family has died.  Why would it be wrong for me to commit suicide to speed up the process for me to get to heaven to see my loved ones?

    It would certainly bring me more comfort.  I would hope that it would bring God more comfort as he knows I would be back with my loved ones forever.

    I don't see a loser in this scenario.  Can you explain this to me?
     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 4:01 PM ET #4954

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?

    Reply

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?

     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 4:03 PM ET #4955

    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.
    _________

    This is not possible....so I've been told by many a people who believe in God.  We are by nature sinners.  
    Reply
    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.
    _________

    This is not possible....so I've been told by many a people who believe in God.  We are by nature sinners.  
     
    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
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    Joined: Dec, 2004
    Posts: 1702
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 4:04 PM ET #4956

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?


    they will tell you that god will judge fairly
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?


    they will tell you that god will judge fairly
     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 4:13 PM ET #4957

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    they will tell you that god will judge fairly

    Pretty much.  



    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    they will tell you that god will judge fairly

    Pretty much.  



     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 4:33 PM ET #4958

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.

    What are you trying to do...make a mockery out of the Christian religion? Well I'm sorry you are not doing a good job.

    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.

    So killing yourself is a sinful murderous act which is disobeying the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    C'mon wake up and drink some coffee will ya?

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.

    What are you trying to do...make a mockery out of the Christian religion? Well I'm sorry you are not doing a good job.

    You have to ask forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth and then do away with your sinning and try your best to live a sinless life.

    So killing yourself is a sinful murderous act which is disobeying the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    C'mon wake up and drink some coffee will ya?

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:22 PM ET #4959

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


    Technically, this is my opinion which doesn't really make it objective.  

    You can blame the 10 beers I had.  If you asked the people who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center buildings, I'm guessing they would have a different "objective" opinion regarding murder.
     
    You cant have "Different" Objective opinions...That is a contradictory statement...Objective means it is one true law....1+1=2..... How on earth can different people have different objective opinions...
    And to say that God is entrenched in your heart at birth is awfully convenient, don't you think?  How can you know this?
     
    Do people need to be told it is wrong to murder?

    And to say I don't believe in God is also assuming. I've never said that.  
     
    Do you?


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


    Technically, this is my opinion which doesn't really make it objective.  

    You can blame the 10 beers I had.  If you asked the people who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center buildings, I'm guessing they would have a different "objective" opinion regarding murder.
     
    You cant have "Different" Objective opinions...That is a contradictory statement...Objective means it is one true law....1+1=2..... How on earth can different people have different objective opinions...
    And to say that God is entrenched in your heart at birth is awfully convenient, don't you think?  How can you know this?
     
    Do people need to be told it is wrong to murder?

    And to say I don't believe in God is also assuming. I've never said that.  
     
    Do you?


     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:25 PM ET #4960

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


    If you born a Taliban and were brought up in their culture.....you will never be able to say with certainty that you wouldn't have grown up to be a terrorist.  

    They wouldn't have taught you their "objective" morality which would look quite different then your current "objective" morality.  

    Thats MY EXACT point.....Vaz thinks you can determine if your morality is RIGHT or WRONG by comparing it to soceities popular opinion.....If you were brought up in the taliban, popular opinion there is that terrorism is right........Hey, he said popular opinion.....You have just confirmed my point.....I am surprised Vaz cannot see this

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


    If you born a Taliban and were brought up in their culture.....you will never be able to say with certainty that you wouldn't have grown up to be a terrorist.  

    They wouldn't have taught you their "objective" morality which would look quite different then your current "objective" morality.  

    Thats MY EXACT point.....Vaz thinks you can determine if your morality is RIGHT or WRONG by comparing it to soceities popular opinion.....If you were brought up in the taliban, popular opinion there is that terrorism is right........Hey, he said popular opinion.....You have just confirmed my point.....I am surprised Vaz cannot see this

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:33 PM ET #4961

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.
     
    Correct  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.
     
    Correct  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
     
    We see from the bible that you can ask for forgiveness BUT it is NOT guaranteed. It comes down to each person and how sorrowful they are....Judgement is something we should keep pur nose out of, will someone go to hell? No one knows, no one has a spot guaranteed.
     
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  
     
    God owns our souls. We as humans are on this earth to either serve him or serve ourselves. This is one of the main reason why we are here. It is not a matter of serve him or else....It is about worshipping what he REPRESENTS. God by definition is the source of all goodness, meaning all goodness comes from him...By rejecting that, you are rejecting all goodness....If you reject all goodness, what is the alternative? You are making the choice..

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  
     
    No, as i said, NO ONE IS guaranteed.....What you and many people seem to think is, i might go and commit an awful sin and afterwards i will just for forgiveness and all will be good...You honestly think that works?  You think God has loopholes? It doesnt work like that....

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?
     
    Look at the example above...There are no loopholes...

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?
     
    No, Jesus specifially called those people hypocrites.....You cant go around saying you believe in God, then go and do what you want and all will be good...It doesnt work like that...By believing in God and what he represents, you have the mechanism to ask for forgiveness, but no one is guaranteed.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.
     
    Correct  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.
     
    Correct  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
     
    We see from the bible that you can ask for forgiveness BUT it is NOT guaranteed. It comes down to each person and how sorrowful they are....Judgement is something we should keep pur nose out of, will someone go to hell? No one knows, no one has a spot guaranteed.
     
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  
     
    God owns our souls. We as humans are on this earth to either serve him or serve ourselves. This is one of the main reason why we are here. It is not a matter of serve him or else....It is about worshipping what he REPRESENTS. God by definition is the source of all goodness, meaning all goodness comes from him...By rejecting that, you are rejecting all goodness....If you reject all goodness, what is the alternative? You are making the choice..

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  
     
    No, as i said, NO ONE IS guaranteed.....What you and many people seem to think is, i might go and commit an awful sin and afterwards i will just for forgiveness and all will be good...You honestly think that works?  You think God has loopholes? It doesnt work like that....

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?
     
    Look at the example above...There are no loopholes...

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?
     
    No, Jesus specifially called those people hypocrites.....You cant go around saying you believe in God, then go and do what you want and all will be good...It doesnt work like that...By believing in God and what he represents, you have the mechanism to ask for forgiveness, but no one is guaranteed.

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:39 PM ET #4962

    I am still waiting for people here to tell me, if they dont know what a straight line looks like, how do they know what a crooked line looks like?

    Reply

    I am still waiting for people here to tell me, if they dont know what a straight line looks like, how do they know what a crooked line looks like?

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:47 PM ET #4963

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.

    You honestly honestly think an all powerful ever living God has loopholes?

    Believe in me and go out and do whatever you want, how you want, what you want?

    Where does the bible say that our positions are guaranteed?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.

    You honestly honestly think an all powerful ever living God has loopholes?

    Believe in me and go out and do whatever you want, how you want, what you want?

    Where does the bible say that our positions are guaranteed?

     
    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 5:47 PM ET #4964

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.


    it doesn't have to make sense, you just have to have "faith" and know "god works in mysterious ways" 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    This SJD quote is so funny....

    So if I live a great life, go to church, love jesus, live a completely christian life.....

    But you go out, and commit a sin, lets say tell a lie.

    And then you die in a car accident 5 minutes later before you have a chance to ask forgiveness - YOU GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!

    Chrisitianity is the fucking funniest thing going.


    it doesn't have to make sense, you just have to have "faith" and know "god works in mysterious ways" 
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 6:04 PM ET #4965

    I got one...

    You are a saint.  You live a jesus like life for 80 years.

    then you are about to die.  You are terminal and in the hospital.  Your nurse comes in as you are about to go, and the last thing you catch is a glimpse down her shirt.  You cant help it, you look at her boobs and covet those things.

    Then you croak.

    Hell for you pal!!

    Christiantiy.  Funnier than a comedy show.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    I got one...

    You are a saint.  You live a jesus like life for 80 years.

    then you are about to die.  You are terminal and in the hospital.  Your nurse comes in as you are about to go, and the last thing you catch is a glimpse down her shirt.  You cant help it, you look at her boobs and covet those things.

    Then you croak.

    Hell for you pal!!

    Christiantiy.  Funnier than a comedy show.

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 6:06 PM ET #4966

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I got one...

    You are a saint.  You live a jesus like life for 80 years.

    then you are about to die.  You are terminal and in the hospital.  Your nurse comes in as you are about to go, and the last thing you catch is a glimpse down her shirt.  You cant help it, you look at her boobs and covet those things.

    Then you croak.

    Hell for you pal!!

    Christiantiy.  Funnier than a comedy show.

    And you say you are smart?

    You think you are a thinker with comments like that which shows your total lack of understanding of Christianity, yet you think you can dissect it...

    Oh dear.....

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I got one...

    You are a saint.  You live a jesus like life for 80 years.

    then you are about to die.  You are terminal and in the hospital.  Your nurse comes in as you are about to go, and the last thing you catch is a glimpse down her shirt.  You cant help it, you look at her boobs and covet those things.

    Then you croak.

    Hell for you pal!!

    Christiantiy.  Funnier than a comedy show.

    And you say you are smart?

    You think you are a thinker with comments like that which shows your total lack of understanding of Christianity, yet you think you can dissect it...

    Oh dear.....

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 6:10 PM ET #4967

    So Rostos -

    You are making this whole Christianity thing so appealing...  Lets see what we have learned in this thread so far....

    1.  Cant think for yourself
    2.  Have to discount and ignore all facts and science
    3.  Have to have faith in something that is almost impossible
    4.  Have to spend your life praising a being that most likely doesnt exist
    5.  Have to be told how to live your life, by 2000 year old code
    6.  Even if you do all of these things, your spot is not guaranteed - on a whim you might end up in eternal torture
    7.  Even if you do all of these things - some random timing of your death might take you to hell because of your last action in life

    Sounds fantastic!!  Sign me up!!

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    So Rostos -

    You are making this whole Christianity thing so appealing...  Lets see what we have learned in this thread so far....

    1.  Cant think for yourself
    2.  Have to discount and ignore all facts and science
    3.  Have to have faith in something that is almost impossible
    4.  Have to spend your life praising a being that most likely doesnt exist
    5.  Have to be told how to live your life, by 2000 year old code
    6.  Even if you do all of these things, your spot is not guaranteed - on a whim you might end up in eternal torture
    7.  Even if you do all of these things - some random timing of your death might take you to hell because of your last action in life

    Sounds fantastic!!  Sign me up!!

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 6:11 PM ET #4968

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    And you say you are smart?

    You think you are a thinker with comments like that which shows your total lack of understanding of Christianity, yet you think you can dissect it...

    Oh dear.....

    That is exactly what SJD said above.  Didnt say you said it - but SJD did.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    And you say you are smart?

    You think you are a thinker with comments like that which shows your total lack of understanding of Christianity, yet you think you can dissect it...

    Oh dear.....

    That is exactly what SJD said above.  Didnt say you said it - but SJD did.

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 6:55 PM ET #4969

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    So Rostos -

    You are making this whole Christianity thing so appealing...  Lets see what we have learned in this thread so far....

    1.  Cant think for yourself

    Wrong, your problem stems from the fact that you DO NOT  accept and want to be told what is right or wrong. You want to be your own God.
    2.  Have to discount and ignore all facts and science

    Funny, Big bang cosmology and astrophysics renders naturalism absurd and false. There you go again, your lack of scientific understanding is alarming and yet you think it is your back bone?  What is the most frightening is, atheists who think science is on there side, couldnt be further from the truth...


    3.  Have to have faith in something that is almost impossible

    And you dont have faith? Interesting? Married couples, at the time of getting married, do the couples have empirical evidence that they will stay together till they die? No, so why do they get married?

    4.  Have to spend your life praising a being that most likely doesnt exist

    You spending an enormous amount of your time talking to people about a being that doesnt exist. Now thats pretty stupid....Furthermore, blasphaming and swearing at a being who if he exists, you have a lot to lose, where as me, if you are right, which i dont believe you are, have lost nothing....I thought you are smart? sounds like DUMB risk management to me..
    5.  Have to be told how to live your life, by 2000 year old code

    Like what? Dont murder, dont steal, dont root others people wives, dont lie......Yeah, they sound like redundant things to me.....Yeah, we shouldnt follow that.

    6.  Even if you do all of these things, your spot is not guaranteed - on a whim you might end up in eternal torture

    Thats right, but you at least have a better chance....Your risk management principles defy logic...


    7.  Even if you do all of these things - some random timing of your death might take you to hell because of your last action in life

    Again, you honestly think it is some sort of game with luck involved? You really should take time to study the bible and the character of God from start to finish...Getting snippets from atheist websites taken out of context and meaning will do you no good.

    Sounds fantastic!!  Sign me up!!

    I am sure you will be saying that on your death bed.....you will be remembering this conversation on your death bed....I assure you of that....You can talk tough now, indestructible, but when you are on your death bed which will happen one day, you will be cursing everything you have said in this conversation.....

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    So Rostos -

    You are making this whole Christianity thing so appealing...  Lets see what we have learned in this thread so far....

    1.  Cant think for yourself

    Wrong, your problem stems from the fact that you DO NOT  accept and want to be told what is right or wrong. You want to be your own God.
    2.  Have to discount and ignore all facts and science

    Funny, Big bang cosmology and astrophysics renders naturalism absurd and false. There you go again, your lack of scientific understanding is alarming and yet you think it is your back bone?  What is the most frightening is, atheists who think science is on there side, couldnt be further from the truth...


    3.  Have to have faith in something that is almost impossible

    And you dont have faith? Interesting? Married couples, at the time of getting married, do the couples have empirical evidence that they will stay together till they die? No, so why do they get married?

    4.  Have to spend your life praising a being that most likely doesnt exist

    You spending an enormous amount of your time talking to people about a being that doesnt exist. Now thats pretty stupid....Furthermore, blasphaming and swearing at a being who if he exists, you have a lot to lose, where as me, if you are right, which i dont believe you are, have lost nothing....I thought you are smart? sounds like DUMB risk management to me..
    5.  Have to be told how to live your life, by 2000 year old code

    Like what? Dont murder, dont steal, dont root others people wives, dont lie......Yeah, they sound like redundant things to me.....Yeah, we shouldnt follow that.

    6.  Even if you do all of these things, your spot is not guaranteed - on a whim you might end up in eternal torture

    Thats right, but you at least have a better chance....Your risk management principles defy logic...


    7.  Even if you do all of these things - some random timing of your death might take you to hell because of your last action in life

    Again, you honestly think it is some sort of game with luck involved? You really should take time to study the bible and the character of God from start to finish...Getting snippets from atheist websites taken out of context and meaning will do you no good.

    Sounds fantastic!!  Sign me up!!

    I am sure you will be saying that on your death bed.....you will be remembering this conversation on your death bed....I assure you of that....You can talk tough now, indestructible, but when you are on your death bed which will happen one day, you will be cursing everything you have said in this conversation.....

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:16 PM ET #4970

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.
    ______________

    Why is it wrong?  

    Would you agree that God forgives sinners and will still let them into heaven if they truly believe?

    If so, why is committing suicide wrong?  You still go to heaven (which is the ultimate goal according to you).  

    Stealing from someone.  I can see how that is wrong as you're taking something from someone.  Committing adultery.  Same thing.  I can see how you would be hurting someone.  

    But committing suicide?  So I'm a single guy.  The rest of my family has died.  Why would it be wrong for me to commit suicide to speed up the process for me to get to heaven to see my loved ones?

    It would certainly bring me more comfort.  I would hope that it would bring God more comfort as he knows I would be back with my loved ones forever.

    I don't see a loser in this scenario.  Can you explain this to me?

    I already explained it and I hate to repeat myself over and over. Can we move on now?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    C'mon hutch, I already told you it is wrong to commit suicide and I know Rostos already told you the same thing.
    ______________

    Why is it wrong?  

    Would you agree that God forgives sinners and will still let them into heaven if they truly believe?

    If so, why is committing suicide wrong?  You still go to heaven (which is the ultimate goal according to you).  

    Stealing from someone.  I can see how that is wrong as you're taking something from someone.  Committing adultery.  Same thing.  I can see how you would be hurting someone.  

    But committing suicide?  So I'm a single guy.  The rest of my family has died.  Why would it be wrong for me to commit suicide to speed up the process for me to get to heaven to see my loved ones?

    It would certainly bring me more comfort.  I would hope that it would bring God more comfort as he knows I would be back with my loved ones forever.

    I don't see a loser in this scenario.  Can you explain this to me?

    I already explained it and I hate to repeat myself over and over. Can we move on now?

     
    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
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    Posts: 1702
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:21 PM ET #4971

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:


    As if everyone knows when they will die...deathbed

    rostos

    you're funny, just like your religion
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:


    As if everyone knows when they will die...deathbed

    rostos

    you're funny, just like your religion
     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:25 PM ET #4972

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    That's ok, it's because you haven't read the bible and so of course you're going to have wrong impressions and misconceptions and that's why we are here answering your questions as best as we can.

    Look at it this way, it's like you are going to school and learning some valuable lessons from a teacher to benefit yourself.

    When the time comes you can't tell the Lord you weren't made aware of His rewards and punishments for people who believe or don't believe.

     

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I wasn't under the impression there was a statute of limitations re. God's forgiveness.  

    That's ok, it's because you haven't read the bible and so of course you're going to have wrong impressions and misconceptions and that's why we are here answering your questions as best as we can.

    Look at it this way, it's like you are going to school and learning some valuable lessons from a teacher to benefit yourself.

    When the time comes you can't tell the Lord you weren't made aware of His rewards and punishments for people who believe or don't believe.

     

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:29 PM ET #4973

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    As if everyone knows when they will die...deathbed

    rostos

    you're funny, just like your religion

    Using the word death bed in a metaphorical way?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    As if everyone knows when they will die...deathbed

    rostos

    you're funny, just like your religion

    Using the word death bed in a metaphorical way?

     
    SirJohnDrake
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posts: 14765
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:37 PM ET #4974

    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?

    How can you ask me a question concerning what God would do in this particular scenario?

    All I can tell you is that God is just and He will judge you fairly beyond that I can't tell you anything more as to your fate, it is God who will judge you.

    And I'm glad that system already told you what we would say...you see he is learning his lessons, well she should by now anyway, that gal has been on this thread from almost day one...she is eager to learn...lol

     

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

    Now after you kill yourself, how can you go before God and ask Him for forgiveness? It is too late, remember you have to ask for forgiveness of your sins while you are living here on earth, not when you are before God at judgment day.

    Do you think He is going to pardon you when the last thing you did before you died you committed a sin by killing yourself?

    ___________

    I'm a soldier in the US Army.  I'm in Iraq.  I'm in a heated battle for 2 days.  Haven't slept for 48 hours.  In am border line insane.  I run across an unarmed person and in a moment of rage, I shoot them.  Before I am able to fully understand what I have done, I get shot in the head immediately and die.  

    So I never had a chance to ask God forgiveness before I was killed myself.

    I'm pretty much screwed your saying?

    Or does God get to pick and choose when he decides to invoke the "confess your sins before you die" policy?

    How can you ask me a question concerning what God would do in this particular scenario?

    All I can tell you is that God is just and He will judge you fairly beyond that I can't tell you anything more as to your fate, it is God who will judge you.

    And I'm glad that system already told you what we would say...you see he is learning his lessons, well she should by now anyway, that gal has been on this thread from almost day one...she is eager to learn...lol

     

     
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 7:42 PM ET #4975

    I just don't know if system is a gal or a guy that's why the confusion above...hihihihihihi!

    Reply

    I just don't know if system is a gal or a guy that's why the confusion above...hihihihihihi!

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