Now instead of getting the usual athiest who likes to argue to display their insecurity it would be really nice to see an athiest who doesn't want to argue anymore but wants to know how they can become a Christian...what must they do to be saved?
It would certainly make the Lord happy to see a non believer become a believer and of course it will certainly make us believers happy to see that too.
But more importantly it will be the wisest decision a non believer will ever make in his/her lifetime.
Now instead of getting the usual athiest who likes to argue to display their insecurity it would be really nice to see an athiest who doesn't want to argue anymore but wants to know how they can become a Christian...what must they do to be saved?
It would certainly make the Lord happy to see a non believer become a believer and of course it will certainly make us believers happy to see that too.
But more importantly it will be the wisest decision a non believer will ever make in his/her lifetime.
Meanwhile no atheist has step forward to accept the challenge I have put forth. This is further of evidence of several things. Atheists are cowards (which I have explained fully in the past) Atheists have aren't in interested in Truth (only the scurrying around in endless searches to avoid the inevitable Truth) Atheists are delusional (in order to keep the delusion real Atheists will avoid anything that can get them closer to the Truth at all costs)
All I'm asking is for one of you to accept the challenge. You guys ask endless questions and never answer any question seriously. Now I have put forth yet another challenge and not even a sniff of a response. Why is that? Since you guys claim to be so secure in your beliefs what is that you're afraid of? This is where the rubber meets the road with you guys. All talk, no action that pretty much sums up atheism. Fear, ignorance, cowardliness and hate are attributes that atheism seems to breed. Which one of you will have the BALLS to step up and take action instead of all this back and forth talk.
I dont see a "challenge" anywhere in this post. What are you talking about?
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
Meanwhile no atheist has step forward to accept the challenge I have put forth. This is further of evidence of several things. Atheists are cowards (which I have explained fully in the past) Atheists have aren't in interested in Truth (only the scurrying around in endless searches to avoid the inevitable Truth) Atheists are delusional (in order to keep the delusion real Atheists will avoid anything that can get them closer to the Truth at all costs)
All I'm asking is for one of you to accept the challenge. You guys ask endless questions and never answer any question seriously. Now I have put forth yet another challenge and not even a sniff of a response. Why is that? Since you guys claim to be so secure in your beliefs what is that you're afraid of? This is where the rubber meets the road with you guys. All talk, no action that pretty much sums up atheism. Fear, ignorance, cowardliness and hate are attributes that atheism seems to breed. Which one of you will have the BALLS to step up and take action instead of all this back and forth talk.
I dont see a "challenge" anywhere in this post. What are you talking about?
SJD- That's simply not going to happen because when you're dealing with hardcore atheist the light wont just come on suddenly. What I'm proposing is a real look at the situation from a realistic point of view. The challenge is this. For the atheists to find 2 Christians or theist who were once atheist and to find 2 atheist that were once Christians or theist. Asked them why they changed their position and what was the fundamental event that convinced them to change their heart.
I have already stated what I think they will find but as is par for the course with these atheists not a single one has stepped forward to take the challenge. Wonder why?
Could it be like I have stated so many times that at the end of the day the atheist are really nothing more than cowards running away from themselves and hiding behind a cavalcade of lies, deceit and utter bullshit to justify their beliefs. Until atheist start answering these questions instead of constantly asking questions. What more can one conclude from their actions or lack thereof.
SJD- That's simply not going to happen because when you're dealing with hardcore atheist the light wont just come on suddenly. What I'm proposing is a real look at the situation from a realistic point of view. The challenge is this. For the atheists to find 2 Christians or theist who were once atheist and to find 2 atheist that were once Christians or theist. Asked them why they changed their position and what was the fundamental event that convinced them to change their heart.
I have already stated what I think they will find but as is par for the course with these atheists not a single one has stepped forward to take the challenge. Wonder why?
Could it be like I have stated so many times that at the end of the day the atheist are really nothing more than cowards running away from themselves and hiding behind a cavalcade of lies, deceit and utter bullshit to justify their beliefs. Until atheist start answering these questions instead of constantly asking questions. What more can one conclude from their actions or lack thereof.
I dont see a "challenge" anywhere in this post. What are you talking about?
It's several pages back and I have repeated it but of course there are no takers. For those who are unaware of this I have repeated the challenge on this page. In addition I will repeat what you will find. From the atheists who were once Christians or other theist based religion, you will find they turned to atheism because of religion or some other negative event involving man. From the Christians or other theist based religion that were once atheist you will find that after much researching, questions and scurrying around for years living a lie that they came to the conclusion that there is Higher Power because of the order of the Universe or they had an experience that showed them God's presence.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God. I have asked the questions to these groups and now I'm asking you to find out for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Take the challenge and let us know what you find out.
Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:
I dont see a "challenge" anywhere in this post. What are you talking about?
It's several pages back and I have repeated it but of course there are no takers. For those who are unaware of this I have repeated the challenge on this page. In addition I will repeat what you will find. From the atheists who were once Christians or other theist based religion, you will find they turned to atheism because of religion or some other negative event involving man. From the Christians or other theist based religion that were once atheist you will find that after much researching, questions and scurrying around for years living a lie that they came to the conclusion that there is Higher Power because of the order of the Universe or they had an experience that showed them God's presence.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God. I have asked the questions to these groups and now I'm asking you to find out for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Take the challenge and let us know what you find out.
Now when you find these people either online or in person. Don' ask questions in a attacking manner like you atheists like to do, but come with a open heart and listen to what they have to say. Ask probing questions of these 4 individuals to satisfy your curiosity. This is the best way for you to learn and see for yourself what the difference is. Now I'm not saying this will convert anybody but it will put into light your core beliefs and show you a different perspective of people that once thought like you and how they have progressed. It will also show you the many faults of man made religions that have tried to replace God with dogma.
Now when you find these people either online or in person. Don' ask questions in a attacking manner like you atheists like to do, but come with a open heart and listen to what they have to say. Ask probing questions of these 4 individuals to satisfy your curiosity. This is the best way for you to learn and see for yourself what the difference is. Now I'm not saying this will convert anybody but it will put into light your core beliefs and show you a different perspective of people that once thought like you and how they have progressed. It will also show you the many faults of man made religions that have tried to replace God with dogma.
The Bible says a lot of things that you obviously have dismissed (about slavery and many other subjects). Why should everyone be convinced that the rest of it is all true?
And to answer your question re. do I believe in God? I can only answer honestly: I don't know if He exists. But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end. And I believe I am living a just life. And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven. And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed? I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him. Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned. I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth. I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.
I can't change who I am.
That's what my plan is.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God.
__________________
What one calls a "connection to God," another could call "finding a crutch," for many number of things.
And if you ask these people about how this "connection to God" happened, most say, "it just did."
You really think you can force yourself to believe in God?
The Bible says a lot of things that you obviously have dismissed (about slavery and many other subjects). Why should everyone be convinced that the rest of it is all true?
And to answer your question re. do I believe in God? I can only answer honestly: I don't know if He exists. But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end. And I believe I am living a just life. And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven. And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed? I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him. Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned. I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth. I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.
I can't change who I am.
That's what my plan is.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God.
__________________
What one calls a "connection to God," another could call "finding a crutch," for many number of things.
And if you ask these people about how this "connection to God" happened, most say, "it just did."
You really think you can force yourself to believe in God?
The Bible says a lot of things that you obviously have dismissed (about slavery and many other subjects). Why should everyone be convinced that the rest of it is all true?
And to answer your question re. do I believe in God? I can only answer honestly: I don't know if He exists. But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end. And I believe I am living a just life. And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven. And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed? I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him. Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned. I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth. I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.
I can't change who I am.
That's what my plan is.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God.
__________________
What one calls a "connection to God," another could call "finding a crutch," for many number of things.
And if you ask these people about how this "connection to God" happened, most say, "it just did."
You really think you can force yourself to believe in God?
I understand your conflict and in time you will find some answers. I am not forcing anybody to believe in God. That's why I put this challenge up because it would be a way for you to see yourself the difference. Instead of assuming what these people would say. Take the challenge and FIND out what they would say. "It just did" wont cut it and nobody will tell you that. You don't go from being a hard core atheist to "it just did." Life doesn't work that way.
I am asking a simple thing that the atheist on this thread stop dancing, stop doing the Ali shuffle and let's get real for a second. If you're serious about your atheism then this should be a no brainer exercise for you. If you have doubts, have a need to argue incessantly with Christians and theist then take up the challenge and many of your questions will be answered. Enough said. If you don't want to do it, find it pointless or want to ridicule it for whatever reason then you have proven my point about atheist being cowards and living lie. Also going to any extremes to cover up the fact that they are doing so. Basically it's time to put up or shut up gentlemen. We can talk all day and night. At some point action is required. I'm asking for you guys to take some action in a way that is non-judgmental or threatening.
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
The Bible says a lot of things that you obviously have dismissed (about slavery and many other subjects). Why should everyone be convinced that the rest of it is all true?
And to answer your question re. do I believe in God? I can only answer honestly: I don't know if He exists. But as was stated by SJD, God will apparently judge you justly in the end. And I believe I am living a just life. And if I am condemned because he says I didn't believe in Him, I am going to ask Him straight up why some people who steal from others....and murder.....and cheat on their wives......are in heaven. And why am I (who doesn't do any of those things) not allowed? I'm going ask Him why he never gave me the ability to understand Him. Why He allowed some to commit "crimes" against their fellow man yet still get into heaven. Where as I contribute to society and try to help my fellow man and I'm shunned. I'm going to ask him how he could be so cruel as to require people to give more credence to him as opposed to the others they lived with on earth. I'm going to ask why he forgives those who cause pain to others on earth.
I can't change who I am.
That's what my plan is.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God.
__________________
What one calls a "connection to God," another could call "finding a crutch," for many number of things.
And if you ask these people about how this "connection to God" happened, most say, "it just did."
You really think you can force yourself to believe in God?
I understand your conflict and in time you will find some answers. I am not forcing anybody to believe in God. That's why I put this challenge up because it would be a way for you to see yourself the difference. Instead of assuming what these people would say. Take the challenge and FIND out what they would say. "It just did" wont cut it and nobody will tell you that. You don't go from being a hard core atheist to "it just did." Life doesn't work that way.
I am asking a simple thing that the atheist on this thread stop dancing, stop doing the Ali shuffle and let's get real for a second. If you're serious about your atheism then this should be a no brainer exercise for you. If you have doubts, have a need to argue incessantly with Christians and theist then take up the challenge and many of your questions will be answered. Enough said. If you don't want to do it, find it pointless or want to ridicule it for whatever reason then you have proven my point about atheist being cowards and living lie. Also going to any extremes to cover up the fact that they are doing so. Basically it's time to put up or shut up gentlemen. We can talk all day and night. At some point action is required. I'm asking for you guys to take some action in a way that is non-judgmental or threatening.
I understand your conflict and in time you will find some answers. I am not forcing anybody to believe in God. That's why I put this challenge up because it would be a way for you to see yourself the difference. Instead of assuming what these people would say. Take the challenge and FIND out what they would say. "It just did" wont cut it and nobody will tell you that. You don't go from being a hard core atheist to "it just did." Life doesn't work that way.
I am asking a simple thing that the atheist on this thread stop dancing, stop doing the Ali shuffle and let's get real for a second. If you're serious about your atheism then this should be a no brainer exercise for you. If you have doubts, have a need to argue incessantly with Christians and theist then take up the challenge and many of your questions will be answered. Enough said. If you don't want to do it, find it pointless or want to ridicule it for whatever reason then you have proven my point about atheist being cowards and living lie. Also going to any extremes to cover up the fact that they are doing so. Basically it's time to put up or shut up gentlemen. We can talk all day and night. At some point action is required. I'm asking for you guys to take some action in a way that is non-judgmental or threatening.
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
I understand your conflict and in time you will find some answers. I am not forcing anybody to believe in God. That's why I put this challenge up because it would be a way for you to see yourself the difference. Instead of assuming what these people would say. Take the challenge and FIND out what they would say. "It just did" wont cut it and nobody will tell you that. You don't go from being a hard core atheist to "it just did." Life doesn't work that way.
I am asking a simple thing that the atheist on this thread stop dancing, stop doing the Ali shuffle and let's get real for a second. If you're serious about your atheism then this should be a no brainer exercise for you. If you have doubts, have a need to argue incessantly with Christians and theist then take up the challenge and many of your questions will be answered. Enough said. If you don't want to do it, find it pointless or want to ridicule it for whatever reason then you have proven my point about atheist being cowards and living lie. Also going to any extremes to cover up the fact that they are doing so. Basically it's time to put up or shut up gentlemen. We can talk all day and night. At some point action is required. I'm asking for you guys to take some action in a way that is non-judgmental or threatening.
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
It's several pages back and I have repeated it but of course there are no takers. For those who are unaware of this I have repeated the challenge on this page. In addition I will repeat what you will find. From the atheists who were once Christians or other theist based religion, you will find they turned to atheism because of religion or some other negative event involving man. From the Christians or other theist based religion that were once atheist you will find that after much researching, questions and scurrying around for years living a lie that they came to the conclusion that there is Higher Power because of the order of the Universe or they had an experience that showed them God's presence.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God. I have asked the questions to these groups and now I'm asking you to find out for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Take the challenge and let us know what you find out.
This is ridiculous, and I say this as a Catholic
Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:
It's several pages back and I have repeated it but of course there are no takers. For those who are unaware of this I have repeated the challenge on this page. In addition I will repeat what you will find. From the atheists who were once Christians or other theist based religion, you will find they turned to atheism because of religion or some other negative event involving man. From the Christians or other theist based religion that were once atheist you will find that after much researching, questions and scurrying around for years living a lie that they came to the conclusion that there is Higher Power because of the order of the Universe or they had an experience that showed them God's presence.
What's the difference you may ask? One experience is man made and the other is a direct connection to God. I have asked the questions to these groups and now I'm asking you to find out for yourself. Don't take my word for it. Take the challenge and let us know what you find out.
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
Hutch, you never answered my question,
Do you believe in God?
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
After 5000 posts, you still dont understand the fallacy of equivocation.........
please explain it to me again, and while you're at it, explain to me how heaven is spelled in Australia or how I'm using deathbed in a metaphorical way....
Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:
After 5000 posts, you still dont understand the fallacy of equivocation.........
please explain it to me again, and while you're at it, explain to me how heaven is spelled in Australia or how I'm using deathbed in a metaphorical way....
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
I appreciate you sharing this with us. God doesn't respond to begging. But let's stay focused on the challenge. The challenge isn't to talk to long time Christians and have lengthy conversations with them. But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why. Also to find 2 atheist who have converted from Christianity or theist philosophy and asked them why. I understand that you can't be forced by outside forces. But let's just follow the road to see where it leads us. At least I will give you credit for at least acknowledging the challenge. Nobody else will even do that because they're not interested in reality but choose to continue to live in their fantasy world and not be threatened by something as little as Truth.
Quote Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:
I've talked to many of my friends who are believers. Long, serious conversations. I've read plenty of books re. the subject in general. I will just never believe that you can "will" yourself into believing in God. Believe me, I have a friend is born again and he's tried to explain it to me many times. Just doesn't resonate and sometimes makes me feel comfortable.
Ever hear of cognitive dissonance? It's when your actions don't mirror what you think. Easy to live with for short periods of time (we all do it.....white lies....fake having a good time on a date), but very mentally distressing over long periods of time.
When I was young (11-13 years old). I even asked God to help me with those feelings. Begged him to come into my heart. I never made that connection.
I know, I know, I didn't try hard enough. Bull shit. As a terrified 12 year old, I tried my ass off.
I'm the young scared kid, and God is the all powerful all knowing being.....and He doesn't help me when I begged?
I appreciate you sharing this with us. God doesn't respond to begging. But let's stay focused on the challenge. The challenge isn't to talk to long time Christians and have lengthy conversations with them. But to find 2 atheists who have converted to a theist philosophy or Christianity and asked them why. Also to find 2 atheist who have converted from Christianity or theist philosophy and asked them why. I understand that you can't be forced by outside forces. But let's just follow the road to see where it leads us. At least I will give you credit for at least acknowledging the challenge. Nobody else will even do that because they're not interested in reality but choose to continue to live in their fantasy world and not be threatened by something as little as Truth.
I think everyone on this thread knows how I feel about man made religions that want to replace God. Catholicism is the head of the class in this department. Catholic history is rife with corruption and other sordid affairs that continue to this day. The Catholic Church is singlehandedly responsible for more atrocities than the other Christian Churches combined. This is indisputable. So for a Catholic to dispute a direct connection to God is hardly a surprise.
So to my Catholic friends I say although you are sincere in your relationship with God the organization that you're affiliated with has done more harm than good in furthering that relationship for spiritual progress and seems more intent on preserving their dogmatic laws than saving souls at the expense of innocent people. There are serious issues within the Catholic Church that haven't been addressed for hundreds of years. I think it's high time that the Catholic Church take a closer look at what their real goal is on this Earth.
I think everyone on this thread knows how I feel about man made religions that want to replace God. Catholicism is the head of the class in this department. Catholic history is rife with corruption and other sordid affairs that continue to this day. The Catholic Church is singlehandedly responsible for more atrocities than the other Christian Churches combined. This is indisputable. So for a Catholic to dispute a direct connection to God is hardly a surprise.
So to my Catholic friends I say although you are sincere in your relationship with God the organization that you're affiliated with has done more harm than good in furthering that relationship for spiritual progress and seems more intent on preserving their dogmatic laws than saving souls at the expense of innocent people. There are serious issues within the Catholic Church that haven't been addressed for hundreds of years. I think it's high time that the Catholic Church take a closer look at what their real goal is on this Earth.
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