• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Kalshi Referral Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • Polymarket Referral Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • Betr Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
      • Gemini Predictions Promo Code
    • NFL Week 6
      NFL Week 6
      • NFL Odds
      • NFL Picks
      • Moneyline Picks
      • NFL ATS Picks
      • Survivor Picks
      • Cowboys/Packers Picks
      • Week 6 Odds
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 198199200 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    vanzack
    Rostos
    RJSmith
    CRRECORDS
    SYSTEM
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 256999
    Posts: 5358
    «First Previous 198199200 ... 213214215 Next Last»
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:04 PM ET #4926

    Anyone needing cliff notes:

    Rostos on subjective morality:

    Rostos "My heart tells me that murdering is worse than a lie...."

    When Rostos realizes that this means he subscribes to subjective morality, he changes course.....

    Rostos "I was wrong in my conclusion, the bible proves me incorrect, the bible does not tell me to make a judgement...I was wrong to make a judgement..."

    So now Rostos is saying that he believes that murder is the same morality as a lie, and that nobody can judge whether murder is worse than a lie.

    I think thats all you need to know about Rostos.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Anyone needing cliff notes:

    Rostos on subjective morality:

    Rostos "My heart tells me that murdering is worse than a lie...."

    When Rostos realizes that this means he subscribes to subjective morality, he changes course.....

    Rostos "I was wrong in my conclusion, the bible proves me incorrect, the bible does not tell me to make a judgement...I was wrong to make a judgement..."

    So now Rostos is saying that he believes that murder is the same morality as a lie, and that nobody can judge whether murder is worse than a lie.

    I think thats all you need to know about Rostos.

     

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:08 PM ET #4927

    Let me try one last time to spell this out for you Rostos:

    1.  You say that morality is objective, but nobody can judge severity or judge which sin is worse.

    2.  The American and Australian justice system makes judgements of which is worse every day.  This is the purpose of the justice system.

    3.  According to your beliefs, there should be no justice system - and it is your Christian obligation to do whatever you can to remove such a system.

    Now, read 1 2 and 3 again before you post.  Please try to understand what I am saying, and try to directly post how that logic is flawed.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Let me try one last time to spell this out for you Rostos:

    1.  You say that morality is objective, but nobody can judge severity or judge which sin is worse.

    2.  The American and Australian justice system makes judgements of which is worse every day.  This is the purpose of the justice system.

    3.  According to your beliefs, there should be no justice system - and it is your Christian obligation to do whatever you can to remove such a system.

    Now, read 1 2 and 3 again before you post.  Please try to understand what I am saying, and try to directly post how that logic is flawed.

     

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:24 PM ET #4928

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Rostos- Vanzack is not only an atheist but he's truly not that smart. So you're discussing something that his mind can't even comprehend. He can't even remember his own lies. So that tells me we must obviously be dealing with a kid or some mentally inadequate adult male that doesn't have a clue about any of this except to spew out hate speech regarding putting Christians in jail. Other than Jagrfury this guy has got to be the biggest piece of work to post on this thread. I don't remember anyone advocating imprisoning Christians and then turning around and denying that he said that when the post is quite clear.

    The funny thing is that all the atheists i have spoken to AGREE regarding the definition of absolute morals and relative morals..

    Yet, he seems to be the ONLY person that objects to it..

    He seems to think that the word SUBJECTIVE changes meaning when it is applied to morals.......Subjective is subjective, it doesnt change meaning........

     

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:

    Rostos- Vanzack is not only an atheist but he's truly not that smart. So you're discussing something that his mind can't even comprehend. He can't even remember his own lies. So that tells me we must obviously be dealing with a kid or some mentally inadequate adult male that doesn't have a clue about any of this except to spew out hate speech regarding putting Christians in jail. Other than Jagrfury this guy has got to be the biggest piece of work to post on this thread. I don't remember anyone advocating imprisoning Christians and then turning around and denying that he said that when the post is quite clear.

    The funny thing is that all the atheists i have spoken to AGREE regarding the definition of absolute morals and relative morals..

    Yet, he seems to be the ONLY person that objects to it..

    He seems to think that the word SUBJECTIVE changes meaning when it is applied to morals.......Subjective is subjective, it doesnt change meaning........

     

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:26 PM ET #4929

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    The funny thing is that all the atheists i have spoken to AGREE regarding the definition of absolute morals and relative morals..

    Yet, he seems to be the ONLY person that objects to it..

    He seems to think that the word SUBJECTIVE changes meaning when it is applied to morals.......Subjective is subjective, it doesnt change meaning........

     

    Yeah, Im the only person who thinks morals are subjective or relative.

    Good one Rostos. 

    Do you know a world exists out there and lots of people dont believe what you do?

    PS - keep trying to avoid post 4934.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    The funny thing is that all the atheists i have spoken to AGREE regarding the definition of absolute morals and relative morals..

    Yet, he seems to be the ONLY person that objects to it..

    He seems to think that the word SUBJECTIVE changes meaning when it is applied to morals.......Subjective is subjective, it doesnt change meaning........

     

    Yeah, Im the only person who thinks morals are subjective or relative.

    Good one Rostos. 

    Do you know a world exists out there and lots of people dont believe what you do?

    PS - keep trying to avoid post 4934.

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:34 PM ET #4930

    Vaznack says, to determine what is right or wrong, we compare it to societies opinion, ie, popular belief, that determines what is right or wrong.....

    Ok, lets play this game for a minute..

    If society deems what is right and wrong, how would have judged the Nazis?

    After all, they were following there cultures morality.....

    Reply

    Vaznack says, to determine what is right or wrong, we compare it to societies opinion, ie, popular belief, that determines what is right or wrong.....

    Ok, lets play this game for a minute..

    If society deems what is right and wrong, how would have judged the Nazis?

    After all, they were following there cultures morality.....

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:38 PM ET #4931

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Yeah, Im the only person who thinks morals are subjective or relative.

    Good one Rostos. 

    Do you know a world exists out there and lots of people dont believe what you do?

    PS - keep trying to avoid post 4934.

    I did not say that, i said you do NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS AND ITS IMPLICATIONS..

    THIS IS PROVEN IN THE EXAMPLE OF CASEY ANTHONY WHICH I POSTED IN WHICH YOU SAID I WAS WRONG THAT I THINK WHAT ANTHONY DID WAS RIGHT?

    Am i wrong in followjng the Yankees?Dont the majority of the world hate the yankees?

    AM i wrong in hating raw eggs? The majority of the world doesnt like raw eggs, am i wrong?

    Am i wrong in finding little 5 year old boys attractive? The majority of the world seems to think so..

    Until, you know the definition of subjective, then you have no business in this thread..

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Yeah, Im the only person who thinks morals are subjective or relative.

    Good one Rostos. 

    Do you know a world exists out there and lots of people dont believe what you do?

    PS - keep trying to avoid post 4934.

    I did not say that, i said you do NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS AND ITS IMPLICATIONS..

    THIS IS PROVEN IN THE EXAMPLE OF CASEY ANTHONY WHICH I POSTED IN WHICH YOU SAID I WAS WRONG THAT I THINK WHAT ANTHONY DID WAS RIGHT?

    Am i wrong in followjng the Yankees?Dont the majority of the world hate the yankees?

    AM i wrong in hating raw eggs? The majority of the world doesnt like raw eggs, am i wrong?

    Am i wrong in finding little 5 year old boys attractive? The majority of the world seems to think so..

    Until, you know the definition of subjective, then you have no business in this thread..

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:46 PM ET #4932

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Let me try one last time to spell this out for you Rostos:

    1.  You say that morality is objective, but nobody can judge severity or judge which sin is worse.

    2.  The American and Australian justice system makes judgements of which is worse every day.  This is the purpose of the justice system.

    3.  According to your beliefs, there should be no justice system - and it is your Christian obligation to do whatever you can to remove such a system.

    Now, read 1 2 and 3 again before you post.  Please try to understand what I am saying, and try to directly post how that logic is flawed.

     

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear........You have completely lost the plot, you really do have no idea of subjective v objective is.....

    1. The bible does gives a list of moral laws.

    2. The bible does not distinguish which ones are worse and which ones are better.

    3. There is only one judge who will judge individuals according to the law.

    4. The judge will judge INDEPENDENT of what the person actually thinks is a worse sin over the other.

    5. Because the bible doesnt say which sins are worse doe NOT mean that sins are of equal value but rather that is for the judge to decide........

    Furthermore, comparing the legal system to God is flawed - BIG time.

    I am not even comparing the legal law to Gods law, even though many of these laws "overlap with Gods law", ie, murder, theft etc...But many dont, adultery, lying, porn etc.....

    When we talk about absoulute morality, we mean UNIVERSAL LAWS, not country to country.......

    The fac that you are comparing the 2 further shows you have no idea what subjective morality means.....

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Let me try one last time to spell this out for you Rostos:

    1.  You say that morality is objective, but nobody can judge severity or judge which sin is worse.

    2.  The American and Australian justice system makes judgements of which is worse every day.  This is the purpose of the justice system.

    3.  According to your beliefs, there should be no justice system - and it is your Christian obligation to do whatever you can to remove such a system.

    Now, read 1 2 and 3 again before you post.  Please try to understand what I am saying, and try to directly post how that logic is flawed.

     

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear........You have completely lost the plot, you really do have no idea of subjective v objective is.....

    1. The bible does gives a list of moral laws.

    2. The bible does not distinguish which ones are worse and which ones are better.

    3. There is only one judge who will judge individuals according to the law.

    4. The judge will judge INDEPENDENT of what the person actually thinks is a worse sin over the other.

    5. Because the bible doesnt say which sins are worse doe NOT mean that sins are of equal value but rather that is for the judge to decide........

    Furthermore, comparing the legal system to God is flawed - BIG time.

    I am not even comparing the legal law to Gods law, even though many of these laws "overlap with Gods law", ie, murder, theft etc...But many dont, adultery, lying, porn etc.....

    When we talk about absoulute morality, we mean UNIVERSAL LAWS, not country to country.......

    The fac that you are comparing the 2 further shows you have no idea what subjective morality means.....

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 18, 2012 - 9:52 PM ET #4933

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

    Reply

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 7:59 AM ET #4934

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

    Correct.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

    Correct.

     

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 8:01 AM ET #4935

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

    Let me adjust that, correct until the bold.

    They are wrong by societies subjective morality.  Popularity has nothing to do with it.  Right and wrong are subjectively decided by the one or ones doing the judging.

    Can we move on now? .

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Under atheism, what the Nazis did, was NOT absolutely wrong, just relatively wrong...

    Meaning, they were neither right nor wrong ABSOLUTELY in what they did........

    That is atheism......

    Murder of millions and millions was not UNIVERSALLY or ABSOLUTELY wrong, just mere opinion.......

    If someone thought that  what the Nazis did was right, they arent wrong, they are just unpopular, but not wrong.....

    END OF STORY........FULL STOP......

    Let me adjust that, correct until the bold.

    They are wrong by societies subjective morality.  Popularity has nothing to do with it.  Right and wrong are subjectively decided by the one or ones doing the judging.

    Can we move on now? .

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 8:06 AM ET #4936

    Murder of millions and millions is not absutely wrong.

    It is subjectively wrong.

    Heres one for you dopey:

    Was the murder of millions of Nazi soldiers and Nazi officials ABSOLUTELY wrong?  If not, why not?  We killed millions of Nazis, why is that right while their murders of millions were wrong?

    It is called subjective morality.  We decided that their deaths was morally just because of their actions.

    You will avoid that question forever.  I can see the smoke coming out of your ears.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Murder of millions and millions is not absutely wrong.

    It is subjectively wrong.

    Heres one for you dopey:

    Was the murder of millions of Nazi soldiers and Nazi officials ABSOLUTELY wrong?  If not, why not?  We killed millions of Nazis, why is that right while their murders of millions were wrong?

    It is called subjective morality.  We decided that their deaths was morally just because of their actions.

    You will avoid that question forever.  I can see the smoke coming out of your ears.

     
    RJSmith
    RJSmith
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Apr, 2007
    Posts: 7618
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 10:03 AM ET #4937

    Well, why do a predominantly  Christian country like the US kill its own citizens (death penalty)? Other countries with the death penalty are Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea...and such countries - none of which I'd call civilized.
    In the old testament you can find the death penalty for trivial things like working on the Sabbat.
    Jesus said "turn the other cheek yet born again Christians like Bush enjoyed killing people when he was a governor (and he went beserk later in Iraq and Afghanistan but that's another story).

    Reply
    Well, why do a predominantly  Christian country like the US kill its own citizens (death penalty)? Other countries with the death penalty are Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea...and such countries - none of which I'd call civilized.
    In the old testament you can find the death penalty for trivial things like working on the Sabbat.
    Jesus said "turn the other cheek yet born again Christians like Bush enjoyed killing people when he was a governor (and he went beserk later in Iraq and Afghanistan but that's another story).

     
    CRRECORDS
    CRRECORDS
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 1999
    Posts: 1197
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 1:38 PM ET #4938

    www.evilbible.com

     

    The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:

     

     

    How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:

    Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education.  Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that person were an inferior status to Aryan Christians.  The Christians blamed the person for the killing of Jesus.  Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years.  The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for person and their Jewish religion.  In his book, “On the person and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2.  Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.

    How the Nazi Regime converted the people:

    a) In the 1920s, Hitler’s German Workers’ Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a “Programme” with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution).  In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a “positive” Christianity: “We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race.  The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession...”

    b) The Nazi regime started a youth movement which preached its agenda to impressionable children.  Hitler backed up the notion that all people need faith and religious education: “By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence.  Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious- dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence.”  – Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    c) The Nazi regime began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught.

    d) The Nazi regime included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and they were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961.

    e) The Nazi regime having full blown power over the people began to forcibly convert all its military.

    g) The German troops were often forced to get sprinkled with holy water and listen to a sermon by a Catholic priest before going out on a maneuver.

    h) The Nazis created a secret service called the “SS Reich” that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens.  If anyone was suspected of heresy (Going not only against the Socialist party but CHURCH DOCTRINE) they would be prosecuted.

     

    Quotes from Hitler:

       

        “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith.  We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism.  Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy.  The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more person were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

        Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the person and uphold his anti-Semitism:

        "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.  It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these person for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth!  was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.  In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders.  How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.  To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross.  As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…  And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."  –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed.  The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

           "The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the person."  -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the person came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)

        

    Reply

    www.evilbible.com

     

    The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:

     

     

    How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:

    Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education.  Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that person were an inferior status to Aryan Christians.  The Christians blamed the person for the killing of Jesus.  Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years.  The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for person and their Jewish religion.  In his book, “On the person and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2.  Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.

    How the Nazi Regime converted the people:

    a) In the 1920s, Hitler’s German Workers’ Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a “Programme” with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution).  In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a “positive” Christianity: “We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race.  The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession...”

    b) The Nazi regime started a youth movement which preached its agenda to impressionable children.  Hitler backed up the notion that all people need faith and religious education: “By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence.  Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious- dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence.”  – Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

    c) The Nazi regime began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught.

    d) The Nazi regime included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and they were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961.

    e) The Nazi regime having full blown power over the people began to forcibly convert all its military.

    g) The German troops were often forced to get sprinkled with holy water and listen to a sermon by a Catholic priest before going out on a maneuver.

    h) The Nazis created a secret service called the “SS Reich” that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens.  If anyone was suspected of heresy (Going not only against the Socialist party but CHURCH DOCTRINE) they would be prosecuted.

     

    Quotes from Hitler:

       

        “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith.  We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism.  Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy.  The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more person were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

        Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the person and uphold his anti-Semitism:

        "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.  It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these person for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth!  was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.  In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders.  How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.  To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross.  As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…  And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."  –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed.  The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

           "The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the person."  -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the person came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)

        

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 5:01 PM ET #4939

    The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young

    National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the person. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

    Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature

    The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity....

    The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

    Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....

    These are some of his private statements......His REAL views..

    If you believed his propaganada that he told the masses to trick them, then you like all atheists who believe those comments are just a wood duck.......

    Reply

    The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young

    National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the person. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

    Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature

    The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity....

    The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

    Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....

    These are some of his private statements......His REAL views..

    If you believed his propaganada that he told the masses to trick them, then you like all atheists who believe those comments are just a wood duck.......

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 7:52 PM ET #4940

    Come on rostos -

    Answer post 4943.

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Come on rostos -

    Answer post 4943.

     

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 9:35 PM ET #4941

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Murder of millions and millions is not absutely wrong.

    It is subjectively wrong.

    Heres one for you dopey:

    Was the murder of millions of Nazi soldiers and Nazi officials ABSOLUTELY wrong?  If not, why not?  We killed millions of Nazis, why is that right while their murders of millions were wrong?

    It is called subjective morality.  We decided that their deaths was morally just because of their actions.

    You will avoid that question forever.  I can see the smoke coming out of your ears.

    Under OBJECTIVE morality - Thou shall not kill. Therefore, what the Nazis did was ABSOLUTELY wrong. The murder of Nazi soldiers and officials was ABSOLUTELY wrong.

    Under moral RELATIVISM, what happened to the nazis was NOT absolutely wrong. If i say what happened to the nazi officials was bad, then you are in no position to say that i am wrong - YOU CAN ONLY DISAGREE, but that DOES NOT MEAN you are right...neither of us are right or wrong, subjectivism is a matter of opinion.....chocolate or vanilla.....You cannot tell me i am right or wrong, and you cannot compare to what is popular opinion.

    This is what atheism implies.......Subjective morality....Popular opinion does entail if something is right or wrong.....

    An 8th grader KNOWS this, yet you seem to have difficulties with this.....

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Murder of millions and millions is not absutely wrong.

    It is subjectively wrong.

    Heres one for you dopey:

    Was the murder of millions of Nazi soldiers and Nazi officials ABSOLUTELY wrong?  If not, why not?  We killed millions of Nazis, why is that right while their murders of millions were wrong?

    It is called subjective morality.  We decided that their deaths was morally just because of their actions.

    You will avoid that question forever.  I can see the smoke coming out of your ears.

    Under OBJECTIVE morality - Thou shall not kill. Therefore, what the Nazis did was ABSOLUTELY wrong. The murder of Nazi soldiers and officials was ABSOLUTELY wrong.

    Under moral RELATIVISM, what happened to the nazis was NOT absolutely wrong. If i say what happened to the nazi officials was bad, then you are in no position to say that i am wrong - YOU CAN ONLY DISAGREE, but that DOES NOT MEAN you are right...neither of us are right or wrong, subjectivism is a matter of opinion.....chocolate or vanilla.....You cannot tell me i am right or wrong, and you cannot compare to what is popular opinion.

    This is what atheism implies.......Subjective morality....Popular opinion does entail if something is right or wrong.....

    An 8th grader KNOWS this, yet you seem to have difficulties with this.....

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 10:44 PM ET #4942

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.

     
    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2004
    Posts: 1702
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 11:08 PM ET #4943

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.


    This is why rostos and people like him are so sad and scary
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.


    This is why rostos and people like him are so sad and scary
     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 11:25 PM ET #4944

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    If objective morals exist, then it doesnt matter what you or i think, they are TRUE IRRESPECTIVE of what we think. If you think its right, it doesnt matter what you think.........You still dont understand objective v subjective...Is it that hard? If God exists, and he has his moral law, which says that urdering in ALL cases is wrong, does it matter what you think about revenge? No, because to the objective law, you are wrong....

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    I derive my morals from from the word of God. He clearly states, "Vengence is mine", it is not upto us humans to get revenge.  You can think what you want, it doesnt bother me. I aint the one that will be  judging you, that is between you and God...But you dont believe in God, so why does it bother you what i think?

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    No, it actually takes disipline and sacrifice to follow Gods law . It doesnt mean what you believe, again, in my beliefs, you will be judged. Its really that simple for me. The way i see it, you can dish off as much rubbsh as you want and pretend you are own God, but when you die, and that day will surely arrive, you will face judgement.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.

    The funny thing is, you will say anything to protect your position here, but when you go out and apply it to the real world, you will see the contradiction of what your beliefs entail.....Why? because objective moral truths really do exist...

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You say that murdering Nazi soldiers was wrong.

    I say that murdering Nazi soldiers under the circumstances was right.

    If objective morals exist, then it doesnt matter what you or i think, they are TRUE IRRESPECTIVE of what we think. If you think its right, it doesnt matter what you think.........You still dont understand objective v subjective...Is it that hard? If God exists, and he has his moral law, which says that urdering in ALL cases is wrong, does it matter what you think about revenge? No, because to the objective law, you are wrong....

    That is all the difference you need to know about you and I.  I can use critical thought and interpret circumstances on a case by case basis - while you are bound by 2000 year old laws that allow no circumstancial critical thought.

    I derive my morals from from the word of God. He clearly states, "Vengence is mine", it is not upto us humans to get revenge.  You can think what you want, it doesnt bother me. I aint the one that will be  judging you, that is between you and God...But you dont believe in God, so why does it bother you what i think?

    It must be really tough to not use the brain that god gave you and instead just mindlessly defer to some code for life.

    No, it actually takes disipline and sacrifice to follow Gods law . It doesnt mean what you believe, again, in my beliefs, you will be judged. Its really that simple for me. The way i see it, you can dish off as much rubbsh as you want and pretend you are own God, but when you die, and that day will surely arrive, you will face judgement.

    Finally, after hundreds of posts, we have come to an agreement.

    The funny thing is, you will say anything to protect your position here, but when you go out and apply it to the real world, you will see the contradiction of what your beliefs entail.....Why? because objective moral truths really do exist...

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 11:33 PM ET #4945

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 

    Reply

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 

     
    Rostos
    Rostos
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2009
    Posts: 27785
    Posted: Feb. 19, 2012 - 11:36 PM ET #4946

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    This is why rostos and people like him are so sad and scary

    LOL, you dont even know what you saying....

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, how does a crooked line look?

    If a straight line does not exist (objective morals), what does a crooked line look like?

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    This is why rostos and people like him are so sad and scary

    LOL, you dont even know what you saying....

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, how does a crooked line look?

    If a straight line does not exist (objective morals), what does a crooked line look like?

     
    jagerfury
    jagerfury
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2007
    Posts: 2955
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 10:24 AM ET #4947

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 



    Rostos; the best argument for atheism going!
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 



    Rostos; the best argument for atheism going!
     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 11:57 AM ET #4948

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    "Everyone knows murder is objectively wrong"

    Do you know the implications of that statement?


    Technically, this is my opinion which doesn't really make it objective.  

    You can blame the 10 beers I had.  If you asked the people who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center buildings, I'm guessing they would have a different "objective" opinion regarding murder.

    And to say that God is entrenched in your heart at birth is awfully convenient, don't you think?  How can you know this?

    And to say I don't believe in God is also assuming. I've never said that.  


    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    "Everyone knows murder is objectively wrong"

    Do you know the implications of that statement?


    Technically, this is my opinion which doesn't really make it objective.  

    You can blame the 10 beers I had.  If you asked the people who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center buildings, I'm guessing they would have a different "objective" opinion regarding murder.

    And to say that God is entrenched in your heart at birth is awfully convenient, don't you think?  How can you know this?

    And to say I don't believe in God is also assuming. I've never said that.  


     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 12:01 PM ET #4949

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 


    If you born a Taliban and were brought up in their culture.....you will never be able to say with certainty that you wouldn't have grown up to be a terrorist.  

    They wouldn't have taught you their "objective" morality which would look quite different then your current "objective" morality.  
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    This is why you and your atheist friends are contradictory....

    you are looking at the behavior of people and there morals and making judgements as to what is right or wrong...

    If you dont know what a straight line looks like, what does a crooked line look like?

    Where do you get your straight line from? Society? Popular opinion?

    How does one know what a crooked line looks like if they dont know what a straight line looks like? 


    If you born a Taliban and were brought up in their culture.....you will never be able to say with certainty that you wouldn't have grown up to be a terrorist.  

    They wouldn't have taught you their "objective" morality which would look quite different then your current "objective" morality.  
     
     
    HutchEmAll
    HutchEmAll
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2004
    Posts: 38704
    Posted: Feb. 20, 2012 - 12:35 PM ET #4950

    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?

    Reply
    OK, Rostos, let's see if you can connect these dots:

    1. You state that you derive your morals from the word of God.  

    2. You state that murder (or even killing yourself) is morally wrong.  

    3. You also have stated many times that God will forgive your sins 
    if you believe in him.  Even the a person who murders can get into heaven.
    If they could not, what purpose would God serve.  He derives his "power"
    from what he can provide people.  

    4. By definition, the true believer who kills himself goes right to heaven.  

    How can you say a behavior is morally wrong when all you need to do 
    is ask God for forgiveness and you're good to go?

    All you are saying is that there are no consequences as long as you 
    believe in God and ask for forgiveness.  And I'm surprised that true 
    believers aren't committing suicide by the thousands.  Why aren't they?

    All Forums | General Discussion
    «First Previous 198199200 ... 213214215 Next Last»

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • 🤢🥴💩_ Fubah's risky baseball bets _🥶😲🥵 461,731
    • 🏈🏈🏈 Fubah2's risky CFB bets 278,534
    • Serious Streak Survivor Strategies 1,918,470
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 61,534
    • NCAA FOOTBALL. 151 47,663
    • Saturday 10/17/2026 695
    • NFL LOCKED IN! 108,049
    • PART DEUX 242
    • Week 7 Money 16,074
    • Public Indicator Calculations 2026 23,055

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Privacy Choices Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Covers Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 Genius Sports. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.