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    All Forums | General Discussion

    If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity

    «First Previous 104105106 ... 213214215 Next Last»
    NorthOf49Sports
    smoothd20
    KittyKatz286
    SirJohnDrake
    offensivestr
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    NorthOf49Sports
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 2:25 AM ET #2576

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I was more refering to , why dont they land in central park in ny in the middle of the day?


    Washington D.C. Flap: 12Jul1952 to 29Jul1952, these series of events took place above Washington National Airport and include 'shoot-down' commands issued by SAC, Andrews AFB.   

    There are many other similar publicized events, but these are small bones compared to other, not-so-publicized encounters, in lieu of cultural shock and social disorientation associated with a 'Hollywood' type arrival.

    AIM HIGH 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I was more refering to , why dont they land in central park in ny in the middle of the day?


    Washington D.C. Flap: 12Jul1952 to 29Jul1952, these series of events took place above Washington National Airport and include 'shoot-down' commands issued by SAC, Andrews AFB.   

    There are many other similar publicized events, but these are small bones compared to other, not-so-publicized encounters, in lieu of cultural shock and social disorientation associated with a 'Hollywood' type arrival.

    AIM HIGH 
     
    smoothd20
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 2:31 AM ET #2577

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    The above quote tells me the non believer is not going to believe no matter what

    Exactly. These atheists will never be satisfied. They will have endless questions, and still wont believe because like I have said many times, at the end of the day they are COWARDS. They know they're COWARDS that's why they get so upset with me because they don't want to admit it. I ruin their fantasy where they can just keep asking questions. No I cut through the crap with these COWARDS and let them know the real deal and then leave them alone to let it marinate for awhile.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    The above quote tells me the non believer is not going to believe no matter what

    Exactly. These atheists will never be satisfied. They will have endless questions, and still wont believe because like I have said many times, at the end of the day they are COWARDS. They know they're COWARDS that's why they get so upset with me because they don't want to admit it. I ruin their fantasy where they can just keep asking questions. No I cut through the crap with these COWARDS and let them know the real deal and then leave them alone to let it marinate for awhile.
     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 2:46 AM ET #2578

    At least Rostos doesn't call us cowards because he understands that's a ridiculous thing to say. You are so incredibly stupid it's astounding. You ruin our fantasy? Who's the one that is afraid to face reality here? Why would i not want answers? Of course I do. We just don't have them yet. That doesn't mean we need to attribute the unexplained to the supernatural. I have the ability to say I don't know. I'm sorry you're too arrogant to do that. But to call us cowards makes absolutely no sense. To be a cowrd you must be afraid of something. What am I afraid of?
    Reply
    At least Rostos doesn't call us cowards because he understands that's a ridiculous thing to say. You are so incredibly stupid it's astounding. You ruin our fantasy? Who's the one that is afraid to face reality here? Why would i not want answers? Of course I do. We just don't have them yet. That doesn't mean we need to attribute the unexplained to the supernatural. I have the ability to say I don't know. I'm sorry you're too arrogant to do that. But to call us cowards makes absolutely no sense. To be a cowrd you must be afraid of something. What am I afraid of?
     
    SirJohnDrake
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 3:20 AM ET #2579

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

      I'm optimistic that before I die we will be able to disprove god as the creator of this universe. And although that doesn't rule one out altogether, it would be enough to convince me 100% that god doesn't exist. I am eager with anticipation.

    In all sincerity I truly know with 100% certainty that you will not be able to disprove the existence of Almighty God as long as you live here on earth! 

    Besides if you can't rule God out altogether, how does that become enough to convince you 100%?...lol....it has to be less that 100% wouldn't it?...lol

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:

      I'm optimistic that before I die we will be able to disprove god as the creator of this universe. And although that doesn't rule one out altogether, it would be enough to convince me 100% that god doesn't exist. I am eager with anticipation.

    In all sincerity I truly know with 100% certainty that you will not be able to disprove the existence of Almighty God as long as you live here on earth! 

    Besides if you can't rule God out altogether, how does that become enough to convince you 100%?...lol....it has to be less that 100% wouldn't it?...lol

     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 3:26 AM ET #2580

    If we can prove that god didn't create this universe, I'm not gonna keep speculating as to whether god created other universes or the multiverse or whatever the answer ends up being. As science progresses, theists keep pushing god one step above the discoveries. At some point I'll just say enough already, there is no god. The idea just makes no sense to me.
    Reply
    If we can prove that god didn't create this universe, I'm not gonna keep speculating as to whether god created other universes or the multiverse or whatever the answer ends up being. As science progresses, theists keep pushing god one step above the discoveries. At some point I'll just say enough already, there is no god. The idea just makes no sense to me.
     
    offensivestr
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 3:42 AM ET #2581

    What if there is a higher power? What if? 

    Ants probably think they are the shit. Digging tunnels and feeding the queen. You think they could grasp human beings? Nope. Would make easy, easy, easy,easy sense there is a greater being than us. A greater power. To say there is no chance of that is ignorant and arrogant. 
    Reply
    What if there is a higher power? What if? 

    Ants probably think they are the shit. Digging tunnels and feeding the queen. You think they could grasp human beings? Nope. Would make easy, easy, easy,easy sense there is a greater being than us. A greater power. To say there is no chance of that is ignorant and arrogant. 
     
    KittyKatz286
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 3:59 AM ET #2582

    But it could be a highly advanced alien species that created our universe. Doesn't have to be something supernatural.
    Reply
    But it could be a highly advanced alien species that created our universe. Doesn't have to be something supernatural.
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 4:17 AM ET #2583

    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    In all sincerity I truly know with 100% certainty that you will not be able to disprove the existence of Almighty God as long as you live here on earth! 

    Besides if you can't rule God out altogether, how does that become enough to convince you 100%?...lol....it has to be less that 100% wouldn't it?...lol



    Firstly, I also know for sure he will never be proven...

    Secondly, you don't understand what he said...  He said it can be proven if god directly created this universe.  It has nothing to do with his existence because people could just say "well he created something that created the universe."  Understand?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

    In all sincerity I truly know with 100% certainty that you will not be able to disprove the existence of Almighty God as long as you live here on earth! 

    Besides if you can't rule God out altogether, how does that become enough to convince you 100%?...lol....it has to be less that 100% wouldn't it?...lol



    Firstly, I also know for sure he will never be proven...

    Secondly, you don't understand what he said...  He said it can be proven if god directly created this universe.  It has nothing to do with his existence because people could just say "well he created something that created the universe."  Understand?
     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 4:22 AM ET #2584

    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:


    Exactly. These atheists will never be satisfied. They will have endless questions, and still wont believe because like I have said many times, at the end of the day they are COWARDS. They know they're COWARDS that's why they get so upset with me because they don't want to admit it. I ruin their fantasy where they can just keep asking questions. No I cut through the crap with these COWARDS and let them know the real deal and then leave them alone to let it marinate for awhile.


    Exactly, we will never be satisfied because we actually wish to LEARN.  I'm sorry you don't wish to expand your little brain, and just accept what you are told as truth.  Very courageous that is...

    I would LOVE to know how atheists are cowards.  It is SOOOO much easier to side with the general public, wouldn't you say?  You say we are scared to face the truth?  Why would we be scared?  What is it you think we are afraid of exactly?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothd20:


    Exactly. These atheists will never be satisfied. They will have endless questions, and still wont believe because like I have said many times, at the end of the day they are COWARDS. They know they're COWARDS that's why they get so upset with me because they don't want to admit it. I ruin their fantasy where they can just keep asking questions. No I cut through the crap with these COWARDS and let them know the real deal and then leave them alone to let it marinate for awhile.


    Exactly, we will never be satisfied because we actually wish to LEARN.  I'm sorry you don't wish to expand your little brain, and just accept what you are told as truth.  Very courageous that is...

    I would LOVE to know how atheists are cowards.  It is SOOOO much easier to side with the general public, wouldn't you say?  You say we are scared to face the truth?  Why would we be scared?  What is it you think we are afraid of exactly?
     
    offensivestr
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 6:23 AM ET #2585

    Interesting account from an atheist

    "I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life." 

    Kind of funny he says that and we are 104 pages into the debate.  
    Reply
    Interesting account from an atheist

    "I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life." 

    Kind of funny he says that and we are 104 pages into the debate.  
     
    offensivestr
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 6:36 AM ET #2586

    Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

    This was a self proclaimed atheist that later in life turned to believing in a God. He said it would be more probable than the alternative after looking at everything. This guy is a lot smarter than us. Interesting conclusion. 
    Reply
    Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

    This was a self proclaimed atheist that later in life turned to believing in a God. He said it would be more probable than the alternative after looking at everything. This guy is a lot smarter than us. Interesting conclusion. 
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 6:57 AM ET #2587

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    And the believers will never change their minds either. What is your point? I just thought it was an interesting take...

    Just bringing this up......

    I mean, i just find it really interesting, that if someone is raised from the dead, the non believer will try and rationalize it away...Just find that really interesting.....

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:

    And the believers will never change their minds either. What is your point? I just thought it was an interesting take...

    Just bringing this up......

    I mean, i just find it really interesting, that if someone is raised from the dead, the non believer will try and rationalize it away...Just find that really interesting.....

     
    jagerfury
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 8:35 AM ET #2588

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just bringing this up......

    I mean, i just find it really interesting, that if someone is raised from the dead, the non believer will try and rationalize it away...Just find that really interesting.....

    There is not a single instance of a dead human coming back to life after death. At least we keep the discussion to actual observed phenomina. And when I say "observed", I mean a little more than a couple of rednecks seeing funny lights at night, or hearing someone tell some bull shit story.
    I'd rather be playing D&D.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Just bringing this up......

    I mean, i just find it really interesting, that if someone is raised from the dead, the non believer will try and rationalize it away...Just find that really interesting.....

    There is not a single instance of a dead human coming back to life after death. At least we keep the discussion to actual observed phenomina. And when I say "observed", I mean a little more than a couple of rednecks seeing funny lights at night, or hearing someone tell some bull shit story.
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:22 AM ET #2589

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

    Pam Reynolds - Observed under the most perfect conditions.

    Reply

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbdUEqDB-k

    Pam Reynolds - Observed under the most perfect conditions.

     
    Mikniks
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:30 AM ET #2590

    Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

    Interesting account from an atheist

    "I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life." 

    Kind of funny he says that and we are 104 pages into the debate.  

    Did i miss a post?  Who said this?  Is this how you think we feel?  That we want to be convinced? 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by offensivestr:

    Interesting account from an atheist

    "I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life." 

    Kind of funny he says that and we are 104 pages into the debate.  

    Did i miss a post?  Who said this?  Is this how you think we feel?  That we want to be convinced? 
     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:45 AM ET #2591

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Ohhh Jesus claimed to be more than a man??  Why didn't you just say so??  And it also says it in a book?  Well now I'm sold...

    Ex, do you take everything in the bible to be gods word and take it all literally?  I mean, it is the word of god so it would be perfect right?

    Yes, I do take the Bible literally, but within context; which I will explain in a minute.

    Alright, I have said over and over to go read my thread and the things that I have said in there, which answer almost all of the questions and comments people have made in here. But obviously, that is not gonna happen, so I am going to copy and paste some of them into here. These are the things that my posts will cover:

    1) Bible's credibility.
    2) Jesus as God.
    3) Credibility of Jesus' miracles.
    4) Credible scientists as creationists.
    5) Information regarding Noah's Ark.
    6) Age of the earth.

    The text in parenthesis and underlined are questions or comments people have made in my thread.

    I am a very patient man, and by no means am I mad in any sort of way; but I there comes a point when it is obvious a particular person is not going to listen to things; and I think that time for most of the people in here has come and gone. I have spent countless hours (yes, hours) trying to help spread the Word of God (and hopefully I have touched somebody maybe viewing this thread, but not responding)... and if that's the case, I have accomplished what I originally set out to do... but, unless there are QUESTIONS regarding what I am posting, I am not going to post in here anymore. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikniks:


    Ohhh Jesus claimed to be more than a man??  Why didn't you just say so??  And it also says it in a book?  Well now I'm sold...

    Ex, do you take everything in the bible to be gods word and take it all literally?  I mean, it is the word of god so it would be perfect right?

    Yes, I do take the Bible literally, but within context; which I will explain in a minute.

    Alright, I have said over and over to go read my thread and the things that I have said in there, which answer almost all of the questions and comments people have made in here. But obviously, that is not gonna happen, so I am going to copy and paste some of them into here. These are the things that my posts will cover:

    1) Bible's credibility.
    2) Jesus as God.
    3) Credibility of Jesus' miracles.
    4) Credible scientists as creationists.
    5) Information regarding Noah's Ark.
    6) Age of the earth.

    The text in parenthesis and underlined are questions or comments people have made in my thread.

    I am a very patient man, and by no means am I mad in any sort of way; but I there comes a point when it is obvious a particular person is not going to listen to things; and I think that time for most of the people in here has come and gone. I have spent countless hours (yes, hours) trying to help spread the Word of God (and hopefully I have touched somebody maybe viewing this thread, but not responding)... and if that's the case, I have accomplished what I originally set out to do... but, unless there are QUESTIONS regarding what I am posting, I am not going to post in here anymore. 
     
    EX4life
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:45 AM ET #2592

    1) Bible's credibility.
    -Over 25,000 sites have now been discovered that pertain to the Bible. As a comparison, the religion of Mormonism makes many claims as to history, especially about the Americas. Yet none of its claims have ever been or can be verified by archaeology, seriously damaging its credibility.
    -Accuracy of Biblical prophesies: over 2,000 accurately fulfilled predictions in the Bible, which also includes roughly 300 specific details and implications about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (I will use a lot of examples of these types of prophesies a little further down).
    -There are no prophetic failures.
    -Over 24,000 copies or portions of the NT exist. These are dated from 100-300 years after the originals.
    -All of the New Testament writers were of Jesus' generation.
                  -Each writer was either an eyewitness to Jesus, or an interviewer to an eyewitness (3 of these writers were disciples of Jesus: Matthew, John, and Peter).
    -Time intervals between the actual events, the date of the writing, and the earliest known manuscript copy: 
                  -For the Bible, manuscript copies (or portions of copies) exist that were written within 35-160 years after the originals.
                  -One manuscript of part of the Gospel of Matthew has been recently dated; and it suggests that it was written in about AD 50 (17 years after the death of Christ). This would mean that the Gospel of Mark, which predates Matthew's gospel, was written as early as AD 40 (Only 7 years after the death of Christ!).
    -The interval between historical events and the written evidence is far better for the New Testament than any other ancient manuscript.
                  -Example: The first account of Buddha's life was written 700 years after his death.
                  -Example: The earliest copy of Caesar's works is 950 years after being written.
                  -Example: The earliest available copy of Plato's works is dated 1250 years after the original.
    -The degree of textual evidence in the existing copies of the New Testament is even more impressive:
                  -With the enormous number of ancient New Testement manuscripts, there are only nominal differences in the various copies; only 40 lines, or 1/5 of one percent are in question, and none of these variants effect the Christian doctrine.
                  -This compares to large textual variances in other ancient writings: The NT is 25 times more accurately coped than the Iliad, which is considered one of the best copied works of antiquity.
    -The consistency of the Bible is absolutely amazing:
                  -The messages of approximately 40 different writers of the 66 books of the Bible, written over the span of 1500 years, in 3 different languages, all fit together like a puzzle... There is one continual theme throughout - God's plan of salvation from sin won for the whole world by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    -Lastly, the more one studies, without bias, the teachings found in the Bible, the more he/she will see that they conform to the truths of experience and human nature.
    Reply
    1) Bible's credibility.
    -Over 25,000 sites have now been discovered that pertain to the Bible. As a comparison, the religion of Mormonism makes many claims as to history, especially about the Americas. Yet none of its claims have ever been or can be verified by archaeology, seriously damaging its credibility.
    -Accuracy of Biblical prophesies: over 2,000 accurately fulfilled predictions in the Bible, which also includes roughly 300 specific details and implications about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (I will use a lot of examples of these types of prophesies a little further down).
    -There are no prophetic failures.
    -Over 24,000 copies or portions of the NT exist. These are dated from 100-300 years after the originals.
    -All of the New Testament writers were of Jesus' generation.
                  -Each writer was either an eyewitness to Jesus, or an interviewer to an eyewitness (3 of these writers were disciples of Jesus: Matthew, John, and Peter).
    -Time intervals between the actual events, the date of the writing, and the earliest known manuscript copy: 
                  -For the Bible, manuscript copies (or portions of copies) exist that were written within 35-160 years after the originals.
                  -One manuscript of part of the Gospel of Matthew has been recently dated; and it suggests that it was written in about AD 50 (17 years after the death of Christ). This would mean that the Gospel of Mark, which predates Matthew's gospel, was written as early as AD 40 (Only 7 years after the death of Christ!).
    -The interval between historical events and the written evidence is far better for the New Testament than any other ancient manuscript.
                  -Example: The first account of Buddha's life was written 700 years after his death.
                  -Example: The earliest copy of Caesar's works is 950 years after being written.
                  -Example: The earliest available copy of Plato's works is dated 1250 years after the original.
    -The degree of textual evidence in the existing copies of the New Testament is even more impressive:
                  -With the enormous number of ancient New Testement manuscripts, there are only nominal differences in the various copies; only 40 lines, or 1/5 of one percent are in question, and none of these variants effect the Christian doctrine.
                  -This compares to large textual variances in other ancient writings: The NT is 25 times more accurately coped than the Iliad, which is considered one of the best copied works of antiquity.
    -The consistency of the Bible is absolutely amazing:
                  -The messages of approximately 40 different writers of the 66 books of the Bible, written over the span of 1500 years, in 3 different languages, all fit together like a puzzle... There is one continual theme throughout - God's plan of salvation from sin won for the whole world by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    -Lastly, the more one studies, without bias, the teachings found in the Bible, the more he/she will see that they conform to the truths of experience and human nature.
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:45 AM ET #2593

    Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies?
    If we read the Bible at face value, without a preconceived bias for finding errors, we will find it to be a coherent, consistent, and relatively easy-to-understand book. Yes, there are difficult passages. Yes, there are verses that appear to contradict each other. We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote with a different style, from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose. We should expect some minor differences. However, a difference is not a contradiction. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable way the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if an answer is not available right now, that does not mean an answer does not exist. Many of found a supposed error in the Bible in relation to history or geography only to find out that the Bible is correct once further archaeological evidence is discovered.

    Admittedly, some of the things people bring up are difficult to answer. However, it is my contention that there are viable and intellectually plausible answers to every supposed Bible contradiction and error. There are books and websites available that list "all the errors in the Bible." Most people simply get their ammunition from these places; they do not find supposed errors on their own. There are also books and websites available that refute every one of these supposed errors. The saddest thing is that most people who attack the Bible are not truly interested in an answer. Many "Bible attackers" are even aware of these answers, but they continue to use the same old shallow attacks again and again.

    Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy?
    We live in a time that tends to shrug its shoulders when confronted with error. Instead of asking, like Pilate, "What is truth?" postmodern man says, "Nothing is truth" or perhaps "There is truth, but we cannot know it." We've grown accustomed to being lied to, and many people seem comfortable with the false notion that the Bible, too, contains errors.

    The doctrine of biblical inerrancy is an extremely important one because the truth does matter. This issue reflects on the character of God and is foundational to our understanding of everything the Bible teaches. Here are some reasons why we should absolutely believe in biblical inerrancy:
    Reply
    Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies?
    If we read the Bible at face value, without a preconceived bias for finding errors, we will find it to be a coherent, consistent, and relatively easy-to-understand book. Yes, there are difficult passages. Yes, there are verses that appear to contradict each other. We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote with a different style, from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose. We should expect some minor differences. However, a difference is not a contradiction. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable way the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if an answer is not available right now, that does not mean an answer does not exist. Many of found a supposed error in the Bible in relation to history or geography only to find out that the Bible is correct once further archaeological evidence is discovered.

    Admittedly, some of the things people bring up are difficult to answer. However, it is my contention that there are viable and intellectually plausible answers to every supposed Bible contradiction and error. There are books and websites available that list "all the errors in the Bible." Most people simply get their ammunition from these places; they do not find supposed errors on their own. There are also books and websites available that refute every one of these supposed errors. The saddest thing is that most people who attack the Bible are not truly interested in an answer. Many "Bible attackers" are even aware of these answers, but they continue to use the same old shallow attacks again and again.

    Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy?
    We live in a time that tends to shrug its shoulders when confronted with error. Instead of asking, like Pilate, "What is truth?" postmodern man says, "Nothing is truth" or perhaps "There is truth, but we cannot know it." We've grown accustomed to being lied to, and many people seem comfortable with the false notion that the Bible, too, contains errors.

    The doctrine of biblical inerrancy is an extremely important one because the truth does matter. This issue reflects on the character of God and is foundational to our understanding of everything the Bible teaches. Here are some reasons why we should absolutely believe in biblical inerrancy:
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:45 AM ET #2594

    1) The Bible itself claims to be perfect: "And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace clay, purified seven times" (Psalm 12:6). "The law of the Lord is perfect" (Psalm 19:7). "Every word of God is pure" (Proverbs 30:5). These claims of purity and perfection are absolute statements. Note that it doesn't say that God's Word is "mostly" pure or scripture is "nearly" perfect. The Bible argues for complete perfection, leaving no room for "partial perfection" theories.

    2) The Bible stands or falls as a whole: If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, "All the errors are confined to page three." For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not.

    3) The Bible is a reflection of its Author: All books are. The Bible was written by God Himself as He worked through human authors in a process called "inspiration." "All scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16). We believe that the God who created the universe is capable of writing a book. And the God who is perfect is capable of writing a perfect book. The issue is not simply "Does the Bible have a mistake?" but "Can God have a mistake?" If the Bible contains factual errors, then God is not omniscient and is capable of making errors Himself. If the Bible contains misinformation, then God is not truthful but is instead a liar. If the Bible contains contradictions, then God is the author of confusion. In other words, if biblical inerrancy is not true, then God is not God.

    4) The Bible judges us, not vice versa: "For the word of God... judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12). Notice the relationship between "the heart" and "the Word." The Word examines; the heart is being examined. To discount parts of the Word for any reason is to reverse this process. We become the examiners, and the Word must submit to our "superior insight." Yet God says, "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" (Romans 9:20).

    5) The Bible's message must be taken as a whole: It is not a mixture of doctrine that we are free to select from. Many people like the verses that say God loves them, but they dislike the verses that say God will judge sinners. But we simply cannot pick and choose what we like about the Bible and throw the rest away. If the Bible is wrong about hell, for example, then who is to say it is right about heaven - or about anything else? If the Bible cannot get the details right about creation, then maybe the details about salvation cannot be trusted either. If the story of Jonah is a myth, then perhaps so is the story of Jesus. On the contrary, God has said what He has said, and the Bible presents us a full picture of who God is. "Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens" (Psalm 119:89).

    6) The Bible is our only rule for faith and practice: If it is not reliable, then on what do we base our beliefs? Jesus asks for our trust, and that includes trust in what He says in His Word. John 6: 67-69 is a beautiful passage. Jesus had just witnessed the departure of many who had claimed to follow Him. Then He turns to the twelve apostles and asks, "You do not want to leave too, do you?" At this, Peter speaks for the rest when he says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." May we have the same trust in the Lord and in His words of life.
    Reply
    1) The Bible itself claims to be perfect: "And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace clay, purified seven times" (Psalm 12:6). "The law of the Lord is perfect" (Psalm 19:7). "Every word of God is pure" (Proverbs 30:5). These claims of purity and perfection are absolute statements. Note that it doesn't say that God's Word is "mostly" pure or scripture is "nearly" perfect. The Bible argues for complete perfection, leaving no room for "partial perfection" theories.

    2) The Bible stands or falls as a whole: If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, "All the errors are confined to page three." For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not.

    3) The Bible is a reflection of its Author: All books are. The Bible was written by God Himself as He worked through human authors in a process called "inspiration." "All scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16). We believe that the God who created the universe is capable of writing a book. And the God who is perfect is capable of writing a perfect book. The issue is not simply "Does the Bible have a mistake?" but "Can God have a mistake?" If the Bible contains factual errors, then God is not omniscient and is capable of making errors Himself. If the Bible contains misinformation, then God is not truthful but is instead a liar. If the Bible contains contradictions, then God is the author of confusion. In other words, if biblical inerrancy is not true, then God is not God.

    4) The Bible judges us, not vice versa: "For the word of God... judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12). Notice the relationship between "the heart" and "the Word." The Word examines; the heart is being examined. To discount parts of the Word for any reason is to reverse this process. We become the examiners, and the Word must submit to our "superior insight." Yet God says, "But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" (Romans 9:20).

    5) The Bible's message must be taken as a whole: It is not a mixture of doctrine that we are free to select from. Many people like the verses that say God loves them, but they dislike the verses that say God will judge sinners. But we simply cannot pick and choose what we like about the Bible and throw the rest away. If the Bible is wrong about hell, for example, then who is to say it is right about heaven - or about anything else? If the Bible cannot get the details right about creation, then maybe the details about salvation cannot be trusted either. If the story of Jonah is a myth, then perhaps so is the story of Jesus. On the contrary, God has said what He has said, and the Bible presents us a full picture of who God is. "Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens" (Psalm 119:89).

    6) The Bible is our only rule for faith and practice: If it is not reliable, then on what do we base our beliefs? Jesus asks for our trust, and that includes trust in what He says in His Word. John 6: 67-69 is a beautiful passage. Jesus had just witnessed the departure of many who had claimed to follow Him. Then He turns to the twelve apostles and asks, "You do not want to leave too, do you?" At this, Peter speaks for the rest when he says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." May we have the same trust in the Lord and in His words of life.
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:46 AM ET #2595

    None of what I presented here should be taken as a rejection of true scholarship. Biblical inerrancy does not mean that we are to stop using our minds or accept what the Bible says blindly. We are commanded to study the Word (2 Timothy 2:15), and those who search it out are commended (Acts 17:11). 

    The logical steps to faith in Christ start without a presumption that the Bible is the word of God. Rather, the reliability of the Bible is examined as a historical source. It testifies to a man named Jesus who claimed to be sent from God, to be God, and to speak the words of God. The internal evidence in the Bible and the external evidence are enough to make us believe that it is more credible to believe Jesus' claims about himself than to disbelieve. From Jesus, we learn about and believe in God, the validity of the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) as the Word of God and the necessity of following the teachings of his Apostles as speakers and writers of the Word of God (the New Testament).

    The reasoned approach to Christian faith is often calledApologetics, meaning, "to give a defense." Apologetics gives a reasoned defense of (and a compelling offense for) the Christian faith. This logic is broken down into the following series of assertions, with the evidences to their truths enumerated:
    Reply
    None of what I presented here should be taken as a rejection of true scholarship. Biblical inerrancy does not mean that we are to stop using our minds or accept what the Bible says blindly. We are commanded to study the Word (2 Timothy 2:15), and those who search it out are commended (Acts 17:11). 

    The logical steps to faith in Christ start without a presumption that the Bible is the word of God. Rather, the reliability of the Bible is examined as a historical source. It testifies to a man named Jesus who claimed to be sent from God, to be God, and to speak the words of God. The internal evidence in the Bible and the external evidence are enough to make us believe that it is more credible to believe Jesus' claims about himself than to disbelieve. From Jesus, we learn about and believe in God, the validity of the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) as the Word of God and the necessity of following the teachings of his Apostles as speakers and writers of the Word of God (the New Testament).

    The reasoned approach to Christian faith is often calledApologetics, meaning, "to give a defense." Apologetics gives a reasoned defense of (and a compelling offense for) the Christian faith. This logic is broken down into the following series of assertions, with the evidences to their truths enumerated:
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:46 AM ET #2596

    1) The Bible has been accurately preserved and transmitted since it was written.

    -Over 3000 ancient copies and fragments agree on 99% of the Bible with no central doctrinal tenets threatened by the remainder.

    -Rare uncertainties in the text are footnoted in most modern translations.


    2) The Bible has been accurately translated.

    -Modern Bibles are direct translations from the original languages by committees of scholars from many churches to remove sectarian bias. 

    -Multiple translations exist to cross-check and confirm the accuracy of any particular translation.

    -Rare uncertainties in translation are footnoted in most modern translations.

    3) The Bible represents an accurate historical account of people, events, and statements.

    -Written by eyewitnesses or their companions who gave their lives for the facts they saw and heard.

    -Written by men for whom truth was a primary virtue, something they would give their lives for.

    -Correlation with externally verifiable facts demonstrate the authors' attention to accuracy and detail.

    4) Jesus is the Son of God.

    -His claims that there is a God and that he is the Son of God are more credible than the alternatives (i.e. that he is a liar or that he is a lunatic).

    -He predicted he would rise from the dead and he did.

    -He fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. 

    -He performed unprecedented and undeniable miracles.

    -His teaching was and is amazing.

    -He changed the lives of people he was around.

    -His teaching continues to change people's lives today like nothing else can.
    Reply
    1) The Bible has been accurately preserved and transmitted since it was written.

    -Over 3000 ancient copies and fragments agree on 99% of the Bible with no central doctrinal tenets threatened by the remainder.

    -Rare uncertainties in the text are footnoted in most modern translations.


    2) The Bible has been accurately translated.

    -Modern Bibles are direct translations from the original languages by committees of scholars from many churches to remove sectarian bias. 

    -Multiple translations exist to cross-check and confirm the accuracy of any particular translation.

    -Rare uncertainties in translation are footnoted in most modern translations.

    3) The Bible represents an accurate historical account of people, events, and statements.

    -Written by eyewitnesses or their companions who gave their lives for the facts they saw and heard.

    -Written by men for whom truth was a primary virtue, something they would give their lives for.

    -Correlation with externally verifiable facts demonstrate the authors' attention to accuracy and detail.

    4) Jesus is the Son of God.

    -His claims that there is a God and that he is the Son of God are more credible than the alternatives (i.e. that he is a liar or that he is a lunatic).

    -He predicted he would rise from the dead and he did.

    -He fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. 

    -He performed unprecedented and undeniable miracles.

    -His teaching was and is amazing.

    -He changed the lives of people he was around.

    -His teaching continues to change people's lives today like nothing else can.
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:47 AM ET #2597

    5) The Old Testament is the Word of God.

    -Jesus said it is the Word of God and that its authors spoke by the Holy Spirit.

    -Jesus treated it as completely authoritative and the standard for his life and teaching.

    -Jesus described his own person and mission as the fulfillment of predictions in the Old Testament.

    -Jesus quoted from over half the books in the Old Testament.

    -Jesus accepted the existing Old Testament canon without hesitation.

    -Jesus never criticized the leaders of the person for having the wrong Bible, but for not understanding it, not practicing it, or substituting human teachings or traditions in its place.

    6) The New Testament is the Word of God.

    -Jesus gave authority to his Apostles and said that they would speak by the Holy Spirit with authority. Therefore, the Apostles' teaching is an authoritative guide for the church in life and doctrine.

    -The New Testament writers were all Apostles or close companions of the Apostles.

    -The New Testament writers wrote with authority, expecting their instructions to be obeyed, and claiming their documents and the documents of the other Apostles were Scripture (same as the Old Testament).

    -The unity of the church that God commands is only possible if there is an external standard.
    Reply

    5) The Old Testament is the Word of God.

    -Jesus said it is the Word of God and that its authors spoke by the Holy Spirit.

    -Jesus treated it as completely authoritative and the standard for his life and teaching.

    -Jesus described his own person and mission as the fulfillment of predictions in the Old Testament.

    -Jesus quoted from over half the books in the Old Testament.

    -Jesus accepted the existing Old Testament canon without hesitation.

    -Jesus never criticized the leaders of the person for having the wrong Bible, but for not understanding it, not practicing it, or substituting human teachings or traditions in its place.

    6) The New Testament is the Word of God.

    -Jesus gave authority to his Apostles and said that they would speak by the Holy Spirit with authority. Therefore, the Apostles' teaching is an authoritative guide for the church in life and doctrine.

    -The New Testament writers were all Apostles or close companions of the Apostles.

    -The New Testament writers wrote with authority, expecting their instructions to be obeyed, and claiming their documents and the documents of the other Apostles were Scripture (same as the Old Testament).

    -The unity of the church that God commands is only possible if there is an external standard.
     
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    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:47 AM ET #2598

    Can/Should we interpret the Bible as literal?

    Not only can we take the Bible literally, we must take the Bible literally. This is the only way to determine what God is really trying to communicate with us. Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author's intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). 

    One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took the Bible literally. Whenever Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting from the Old Testament.

    The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31). Just as the disciples took Jesus' words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?

    Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages. An example of a figure of speech would be that if someone said "it's raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean that it is raining really hard. There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally.
    Reply

    Can/Should we interpret the Bible as literal?

    Not only can we take the Bible literally, we must take the Bible literally. This is the only way to determine what God is really trying to communicate with us. Many today will read a verse or passage of Scripture and then give their own definitions to the words, phrases, or paragraphs, ignoring the context and author's intent. But this is not what God intended, which is why God tells us to correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). 

    One reason we should take the Bible literally is because the Lord Jesus Christ took the Bible literally. Whenever Jesus quoted from the Old Testament, it was always clear that He believed in its literal interpretation. As an example, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in Luke 4, He answered by quoting from the Old Testament.

    The disciples also took the commands of Christ (which are part of the Bible) literally. In Acts 2 and following, we find that the disciples took Jesus' command literally and went throughout the known world of that time preaching the gospel of Christ and telling them to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31). Just as the disciples took Jesus' words literally, so must we. How else can we be sure of our salvation if we do not believe Him when He says He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), pay the penalty for our sin (Matthew 26:28), and provide eternal life (John 6:54)?

    Although we take the Bible literally, there are still figures of speech within its pages. An example of a figure of speech would be that if someone said "it's raining cats and dogs outside," you would know that they did not really mean that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. They would mean that it is raining really hard. There are figures of speech in the Bible which are not to be taken literally.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:47 AM ET #2599

    Which leads me to my second question... Why is it important to study the Bible in context? What is wrong with taking verses out of context?"
    Taking verses out of context leads to all kinds of error and misunderstanding. Understanding context begins with four principles: literal meaning (what it says), historical setting (the events of the story, to whom it was addressed, and how it was understood at that time), grammar (the immediate sentence and paragraph within which a word or phrase is found), and synthesis (comparing it with other parts of Scripture for a fuller meaning). Context is crucial to biblical exegesis in that it is one of the most important fundamentals. After we account for the literal, historical, and grammatical nature of a passage, we must then focus on the outline and structure of the book, then the chapter, then the paragraph. All of these things refer to "context."

    Taking phrases and verses out of context always leads to misunderstanding. For instance, taking the phrase "God is love" (1 John 4: 7-16) out of its context, we might come away thinking that our God loves everything and everyone at all times with a gushing, romantic love. But in its literal and grammatical context, "love" here refers to agape love, the essence of which is sacrifice for the benefit of another, not a sentimental, romantic love. The historical context is also crucial, because John was addressing believers in the first century church and instructing them not on God's love per se, but on how to identify true believers from false professors. True love - the sacrificial, beneficial kind - is the mark of a true believer (v. 7), those who do not love do not belong to God (v. 8), God loved us before we loved Him (vv. 9-10), and all of this is why we should love one another and thereby prove that we are His (v. 11-12).

    Furthermore, considering the phrase "God is love" in the context of all Scripture (synthesis) will keep us from coming to the false, and all-to-common, conclusion that God is only love or that His love is greater than all of His other attributes, which is simply not the case.

    The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    There are definitely some passages/verses in the Bible that, when reading on the surface, out of context, or from a non-christian point-of-view, may seem weird, funny, etc. So let's look at this verse in Ezekiel, as well as examining it from a broader perspective.
    Reply
    Which leads me to my second question... Why is it important to study the Bible in context? What is wrong with taking verses out of context?"
    Taking verses out of context leads to all kinds of error and misunderstanding. Understanding context begins with four principles: literal meaning (what it says), historical setting (the events of the story, to whom it was addressed, and how it was understood at that time), grammar (the immediate sentence and paragraph within which a word or phrase is found), and synthesis (comparing it with other parts of Scripture for a fuller meaning). Context is crucial to biblical exegesis in that it is one of the most important fundamentals. After we account for the literal, historical, and grammatical nature of a passage, we must then focus on the outline and structure of the book, then the chapter, then the paragraph. All of these things refer to "context."

    Taking phrases and verses out of context always leads to misunderstanding. For instance, taking the phrase "God is love" (1 John 4: 7-16) out of its context, we might come away thinking that our God loves everything and everyone at all times with a gushing, romantic love. But in its literal and grammatical context, "love" here refers to agape love, the essence of which is sacrifice for the benefit of another, not a sentimental, romantic love. The historical context is also crucial, because John was addressing believers in the first century church and instructing them not on God's love per se, but on how to identify true believers from false professors. True love - the sacrificial, beneficial kind - is the mark of a true believer (v. 7), those who do not love do not belong to God (v. 8), God loved us before we loved Him (vv. 9-10), and all of this is why we should love one another and thereby prove that we are His (v. 11-12).

    Furthermore, considering the phrase "God is love" in the context of all Scripture (synthesis) will keep us from coming to the false, and all-to-common, conclusion that God is only love or that His love is greater than all of His other attributes, which is simply not the case.

    The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14).

    There are definitely some passages/verses in the Bible that, when reading on the surface, out of context, or from a non-christian point-of-view, may seem weird, funny, etc. So let's look at this verse in Ezekiel, as well as examining it from a broader perspective.
     
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Dec. 21, 2011 - 9:47 AM ET #2600

    "You have no scientific proof Jesus healed leapers or raised the dead"

    Before I get specifically into my answer to this statement, I am going to establish credibility and truth to the Bible and what it says; I have already done this in previous posts, but I will also say some different things as well.

    The Bible is Unique:
    1. The Bible is not one book, but a compilation of 66 books that were written at different times.
    2. It was written over a 1500 year period of time.
    3. It was written by over 40 different authors: fishermen, generals, herdsmen, kings, doctors, tax collectors, and many others.
    4. It was written on three continents.
    5. It was written in three different languages.
    6. The writers of the Bible wrote about hundreds of different subjects.

    The New Testament Manuscripts:
    The New Testament was not translated from only one manuscript. There are over 24,000 original manuscript copies of the NT. Most of them were written within 100 years of Christ's death, and they all agree with each other. There is more manuscript evidence for the NT than any other 10 pieces of ancient literature combined.

    The Old Testament Manuscripts:
    When the Old Testament Scrolls were getting old, illegible, and worn out the person would make new ones. The reason that we don't have more OT Manuscripts is that after the person copied them from the old copy to the new copy, the old manuscript was destroyed. To show you how meticulous they were when translating them, consider this:
    1. They could only be copied onto the skins of kosher animals.
    2. The copyist had to be in full Jewish dress while he was translating the manuscript.
    3. If he was writing God's name and someone entered the room, the copyist couldn't even acknowledge him until he had finished writing the name of God.
    4. Between each letter there had to be a space the exact width of a hair (no more, no less); if not the copyist had to throw away what he had done and start all over from the beginning.
    5. Once the copying was completed, every letter was counted to be sure the copy matched the original.

    The Dead-Sea Scrolls:
    The Dead-Sea Scrolls are some OT Manuscripts that were written between 70-150 BC. They remained untouched until 1947, when they were discovered; they translate almost word for word as today's version of the Bible.
    Reply
    "You have no scientific proof Jesus healed leapers or raised the dead"

    Before I get specifically into my answer to this statement, I am going to establish credibility and truth to the Bible and what it says; I have already done this in previous posts, but I will also say some different things as well.

    The Bible is Unique:
    1. The Bible is not one book, but a compilation of 66 books that were written at different times.
    2. It was written over a 1500 year period of time.
    3. It was written by over 40 different authors: fishermen, generals, herdsmen, kings, doctors, tax collectors, and many others.
    4. It was written on three continents.
    5. It was written in three different languages.
    6. The writers of the Bible wrote about hundreds of different subjects.

    The New Testament Manuscripts:
    The New Testament was not translated from only one manuscript. There are over 24,000 original manuscript copies of the NT. Most of them were written within 100 years of Christ's death, and they all agree with each other. There is more manuscript evidence for the NT than any other 10 pieces of ancient literature combined.

    The Old Testament Manuscripts:
    When the Old Testament Scrolls were getting old, illegible, and worn out the person would make new ones. The reason that we don't have more OT Manuscripts is that after the person copied them from the old copy to the new copy, the old manuscript was destroyed. To show you how meticulous they were when translating them, consider this:
    1. They could only be copied onto the skins of kosher animals.
    2. The copyist had to be in full Jewish dress while he was translating the manuscript.
    3. If he was writing God's name and someone entered the room, the copyist couldn't even acknowledge him until he had finished writing the name of God.
    4. Between each letter there had to be a space the exact width of a hair (no more, no less); if not the copyist had to throw away what he had done and start all over from the beginning.
    5. Once the copying was completed, every letter was counted to be sure the copy matched the original.

    The Dead-Sea Scrolls:
    The Dead-Sea Scrolls are some OT Manuscripts that were written between 70-150 BC. They remained untouched until 1947, when they were discovered; they translate almost word for word as today's version of the Bible.
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