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Does Religious Belief Make You a Better Person?

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Posted: #1
Or a worse one?
 
Worst person I ever knew personally was an elderly born-again Christian in a neighborhood I used to live in.  Old guy and his wife would call the town Code Enforcement for every little thing. (Every town has a huge code book - every other property in Anytown,USA has something in violattion)
 
Once tho, he wanted me to cut an old black walnut tree on my property.  Said the leaves were falling into his little backyard pool. It wasn't a code violation, otherwise he would have dropped a dime on me.
 
I offered to go up and cut the offending overhanging limbs.  He refuused - because he'd paid a service to cut another tree on his own property, and hey give him a "two for one" price.  Which I didn't know at the time
 
I heard the noise in the yard one Sat morn,and rushed out.  The tree company was ready to cut. Told me "the owner" gave them permission and paid for it.
 
I told them NO.  The Christian's wife came over and told me that since they had lived in that house for over 50 years they had the right to cut my tree.
 
The degenerate in California who kidnapped the 11 year old and kept her for years is a fanatic Christian.
 
The people who pushed for UIGEA - the law that harassed offshore books regarding using US banks to send withdrawal money - were born-again Christians.  Typically of sneak tactics, they pushed that law thru under cover of an unrelated Port Security bill.
 
GW Bush, who lied us into war, is a BA Christian.
 
Fanatic Muslims are behind many terror attacks.  Fanatic person in Israel ignore the world's demand that the settlement building on Palestinian land stop (because Jehovah, you see, "gave" that land to them 3000 years ago).
 
I know there are Christians who do good work, and don't get into anyone else's face. But I doubt it's a result of their faith - I suspect they'd be good people if they worshipped trees or mountains.
 
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Posted: #2
Religion is the opiate of the masses.
 
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Some religious practices seem to encourage immorality, or at least give a stamp of approval on bad citizenship.

Tho the historian Spengler opined that the Catholic practice of confession encourage the writing of novels (!!) in the West, it also seems to encourage a cavalier attitude toward wrongdoing.

"If I sin I'll say 20 Hail Marys and the priest will forgive me."

Born-agains have a saying when confronted with the fact that many of their fave politicians and preachers are hypocrites - with girlfriends and person (both  female AND male) on the side.

WE'RE NOT PERFECT (say these clowns) JUST FORGIVEN

Well, that's a nice excuse in advance. Be a world-class hypocrite, steal millions, do whatever you wish -  hey, God understands, he'll forgive you jsut because you take literally the flawed history book of an ancient tribe.

Practitioners of Judaism recite a kind of prayer at the annual Yom Kippur observance. It's call the Kol Nidre, and tells Yahweh in advance that any pledge or vow they make in the following year is null and void, and means nothing,.

Kol Nidre has caused a lot of problems for person down the centuries, but the orthodox branches refuse to abandon it.

Religious beliefs seem to often sanction (or forgive) deviant behavior,  And seem to be always in conflict with civility, with living in a society defined by law

 
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Posted: #4
Quote Originally Posted by Henry-Lilly:

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

. . . the heart of a heartless world, the soul of soulless conditions, the opium of the people

Marx, the systemizer, spun a web of fraud, but did have some poetic moments,as with the above quote

 
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Posted: #5
This is the easiest question ever.
 
Go read the bible.
 
Especially the parts that sanction slavery, the parts that tell you how to abuse women, the parts that tell you how to kill people viciously in the name of god, and the parts that allow people the authority to trash the earth.
 
There is absolutely no question that religion is the darkest force in humanity today, and holds back society, medicine, and the relief of human suffering more than everything else combined.
Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
 
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Posted: #6
Good posts.



 
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Posted: #7
Quote Originally Posted by luckbythetruck:

Some religious practices seem to encourage immorality, or at least give a stamp of approval on bad citizenship.

Tho the historian Spengler opined that the Catholic practice of confession encourage the writing of novels (!!) in the West, it also seems to encourage a cavalier attitude toward wrongdoing.

"If I sin I'll say 20 Hail Marys and the priest will forgive me."

Born-agains have a saying when confronted with the fact that many of their fave politicians and preachers are hypocrites - with girlfriends and person (both  female AND male) on the side.

WE'RE NOT PERFECT (say these clowns) JUST FORGIVEN

Well, that's a nice excuse in advance. Be a world-class hypocrite, steal millions, do whatever you wish -  hey, God understands, he'll forgive you jsut because you take literally the flawed history book of an ancient tribe.

Practitioners of Judaism recite a kind of prayer at the annual Yom Kippur observance. It's call the Kol Nidre, and tells Yahweh in advance that any pledge or vow they make in the following year is null and void, and means nothing,.

Kol Nidre has caused a lot of problems for person down the centuries, but the orthodox branches refuse to abandon it.

Religious beliefs seem to often sanction (or forgive) deviant behavior,  And seem to be always in conflict with civility, with living in a society defined by law

doesn't it have to be this way?  what are they selling?  religion doesn't sell facts or knowledge or credentials.  does it sell anything tangible?  i'm not saying religions doesn't serve a purpose, and a beneficial purpose, for many people.  but it relies on fear and reward to a large degree with no way to actually prove that the good or the bad will materialize.  if you alienate the most flawed of the group rather than offer forgiveness, don't you kill your business model?

 
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Posted: #8
Jim Jones was religious look what he did.  He murdered masses of people at Gtown. Religion can fkk people up the wrong way.
 
 
 
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Posted: #9
I know there are Christians who do good work, and don't get into anyone else's face. But I doubt it's a result of their faith - I suspect they'd be good people if they worshipped trees or mountains.


It's human nature to do what feels good.  It's the purpose of religions and governments to tell you to do what's right.

I prefer to just do what feels good, and not worry about what's right


and i agree 100% that organized religions in the present day are the bain of our existence.  However, spirituality should have it's place in humanity, just such a shame that our masters opt to control with fear,,,,,,,,,i prefer trust, it just works much better for me. to each his own
 
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Posted: #10
i'm not saying religions doesn't serve a purpose, and a beneficial purpose, for many people
 
In more innocent times in the US, when wars were fought that had the enthusiastic support of a great majority of the populace, there was a saying:
 
THERE ARE NO ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES.
 
Meaning that under stress, facing life or death, everyone turns to "god."  IE, that everyone - even the strict rationalist - starts to pray.
 
I would not say that "everyone" does, but a lot will.
 
Why? It may be that belief in a higher power, the ease which people try to appeal to this higher power esp in times of stress, is the origin of "religion."
 
That all the rituals and fantasy are simply aids to the imagination to help them with their appeals.
 
Years ago I read a book that dealt with this question. Titled "Religion for Infidels" it was written by an English gent who termed himself in the book a "Christophobist."
 
Not conventinally religious, he put up a case that appeals to higher power were part of our evolutionary heritage.  That imaging a reply, or assistance in living, is ingrained by heredity into living beings.
 
That prayer is sometimes answered, if the petitioner knows exactly how to pray - full submission (both mental and physical) and complete reliance on the Unseen Power.
 
He wrote that he said a little "prayer" each nite, a recitation really just before sleep (when the "subconscous mind" is popping out), and that it led him to a technique that allowed him a long and healthy life (he died in his early 90s)
 
It was kind of like the teachings of early 20th century psychologist Emile Coue.
 
If there is any truth to this statement, it will explain why religions took such a deep hold on the collective psyche of mankind.  Everyone wants to know how to tap into powers that he or she does not possess.  Religions in effect say, follow our dogma and practices, and you will have a power denied to others
 
It's a prime motive of those who practice witchcraft - to "bring down the moon" to aid one in attaining to personal health, wealth, relationships, etc
 
Most orthodox believers will be repelled to have their faith compared to witchcraft, but the basic underlying motive for it may be the same.
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

This is the easiest question ever.
 
Go read the bible.
 
Especially the parts that sanction slavery, the parts that tell you how to abuse women, the parts that tell you how to kill people viciously in the name of god, and the parts that allow people the authority to trash the earth.
 
There is absolutely no question that religion is the darkest force in humanity today, and holds back society, medicine, and the relief of human suffering more than everything else combined.

Nietzsche said that one of the great absurdities of history was to combine the Old and New Testaments into one so-called Good Book.  The Old was a tribal history, and like all such included a praise of mass murderers, the glorification of the slaughter and enslavement of the tribal enemies, the harsh steps taken to enforce tribal unity.

The New was all about forgiveness, of the great, humanitarian magic tricks of the Gentle Jesus, of peace and love . . .

Fundamentalists see no contradiction between these two very separate writings.  "God said it - I believe it - and that settles it."  We've all seen that bumper sticker . . .

 
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Posted: #12
A poem (ok doggerel) from an old Freethinking (atheist) magazine, that struck my fancy so I clipped and saved.
 
IN BIBLE DAYS
 
In Bible days when a wench grew hot
She slipped, like Ruth, into some man's cot.
If she aimed, like Bathsheeba, to be a king's spouse
She lolled around nude on the roof of her house
 
On antics like this no bible frowned,
Harlots and whoresons were often crowned -
Rebecca for one, and sweet Abigail
And those twin headhunters, Judith and Jael
 
Abram palmed off his wife as his sister,
How prudent of Melech (and wise) to resist her.
 
Moral: Beware of preachers who peddle "god's word"
To be swallowed whole by the faithful herd
No matter how false, obscene and absurd.
 
For if that's religion (and it seems to be)
Hurrah for pagans, and heresy!
 
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Posted: #13
I've always wondered when covers would have a thread about Omega Point, thanks lbtt


Dogbert postulates that since everything develops from simpler forms to more complex forms, a supreme being must be our future, not our origin. His idea is that God must be the entity that will be formed when enough people are connected by the Internet.

Scott Adams

luckbythetruck, have you ever read God's Debris??


 
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Posted: #14
And another light verse I saved from the same magazine
 
Rachab the person of Jericho
Walks in Heaven to and fro.
With saints and angels she consorts
As she takes her ease in the jacinth courts
 
Wherein did Rachab serve the Lord
To garner heaven as her reward?
What act of grace, what martyrdom
Earned her the new Jerusalem?
 
She saw two spies and had them in,
Connived with them to save her skin.
Gave freely of her bed and board
And all night swilled with them, and whored.
 
The Chosen People took the land
Rachab betrayed into their hand.
They made a shambles of the city
And slew the living without pity.
 
But spared the harlot and her kin -
Not death the wages of her sin.
The deal she made with Joshua's spies
Found favor in Jehovah's eyes.
 
Rachab the person of Jericho
Strides in heaven to and fro
With saints and angels she consorts
And takes her ease in the jacinth courts.
 
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Posted: #15
luck, i've been seeking out more books on religion.  i am fascinated by the psychology and sociology of it all.  additionally, it doesn't make sense to me how some of these folks are so adamant about their religion when their knowledge of religion is so limited.  there are thousands of religions out there, many of which have their own god(s). why would someone choose one just because it was their parents' religion or the church is down the street. 
 
that's like marrying the first girl you ever met because she was your neighbor (or first cousin for you southerners ).  it seems to me that people would want to do a little research into the idea of religion before choosing. 
 
in any case, i read a book called Knowledge of Angels a while ago.  it wasn't bad.  it addressed the question as to whether someone who grew up in a completely secluded environment away from other people would develop a belief in a higher power or not. 
 
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Posted: #16
Organized religion is the root of all evil
 
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Posted: #17
luckbythetruck, have you ever read God's Debris??
never read it, who wrote it, what's it about?
 
funny about a god emerging from the internet.  I think that was the belief early in the 20th century, with the phrase Deux et Machina, or something like that ... God from the Machine or God in the Machine
 
Now, maybe, God from the chips
 
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Knowledge of Angels is a book i'll also put on my reading list -tho next 3,4 months prob not, too much travel stress, may even cut into football
 
Back a long time ago I read parts of a famous book (from last century) called The Golden Bough. I think the author was named Fraser, tho not sure
 
It was an inquiry into all many, many gods and goddesses saviors and destroyers, that mankind has invented throughout the ages
 
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Posted: #19
I'm sure there's a ton of religious people out there that are genuinely good people following the Bible or simple Catholic(or insert other religion) beliefs.
 
I am not in the that category.  Fuck all that bullshit.  Fuck God.  Fuck you.
 
Father Williams over at my local church gave my sister a lot of problems about getting her kids Christened(surprise it was all about money and his greed).  I went there like a lunatic, called him every name in the book, was escorted out by nuns(the box got two old nuns to get me off the premises), and lightning hasn't struck me yet.  St Veronica's Church in Howell NJ if anyone wants to burn that shithole to the ground or rape Father William's wife.
 
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One persistant historical question is whether Jesus was a real person, ie an historical personage, or an invention.
 
There is no mention of him in any writings from the general time, other than the Gospels themselves (The note by the Jewish historian Josehphus is now universally stated by scholars to have been a forgery, added to his work by a devious early Chirstian father)
 
The Dead Sea Scrolls (don't think Israel has yet released all of them) speak of a Teacher of Righteousness, but again, most scholars do not believe that referred to Jesus.
 
The most potent argument,to me, that he in fact did exist,is that such mass movements almost always have their origin in one highly charismatic personality, who change lives and extend thier influence way beyond the grave.
 
Who knows, if Charlie Manson had not ordered the murders, he may today have millions of worldwide followers, a new messiah . . .
 
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Posted: #21
Quote Originally Posted by luckbythetruck:

Knowledge of Angels is a book i'll also put on my reading list -tho next 3,4 months prob not, too much travel stress, may even cut into football
 
Back a long time ago I read parts of a famous book (from last century) called The Golden Bough. I think the author was named Fraser, tho not sure
 
It was an inquiry into all many, many gods and goddesses saviors and destroyers, that mankind has invented throughout the ages

well, it ain't nietzsche, but it's probably worth a read.  it moves pretty quickly. 

 
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Posted: #22
 Father William's wife
 
If Father William has one of those, he's a heretic
Tho I understand in Catholic Hispanic and Mediterarean countries, the "priest's woman" is a common figure. And too his kids
 
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Posted: #23
luckbythetruck, have you ever read God's Debris??
never read it, who wrote it, what's it about?


enjoy


 
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Posted: #24
Quote Originally Posted by luckbythetruck:

 Father William's wife
 
If Father William has one of those, he's a heretic
Tho I understand in Catholic Hispanic and Mediterarean countries, the "priest's woman" is a common figure. And too his kids

They're all quacks.  I hope his entire family die of a horrible, slow developing, extremely painful form of uncurable cancer.

But hey, if people are down with the religion thing, that's cool with me.  I have no problems with that.

 
 
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well, it ain't nietzsche, but it's probably worth a read.  it moves pretty quickly
 
That great stylist and extremely original thinker (Nietzsche) penned one of the most thought-provoking books on Christianity, titled (provocatively) The Antichrist.
 
In in Nietzshe shows how the Christian doctrine was based upon the resentment of slaves, of hostility to what the ancients called "The Good, the True and the Beautiful":
 
That is was hostile to life itself, especially in the form of high civilization, like that of old Rome. (The famous line from Revelations, about the coming destruction of "Babylon," was actually a veiled reference to Rome)
 
N compares Christianity to another life-denying religion, Buddhism
 
Said that Buddhism was at least gentle, not heatedly antagonistic to high civilizations, just exhausted, wishing nirvana, not revenge, like Chistianity
 
I like the Mencken translation of Der Anticrist. Short book, moves very fast, great thinker, great writer was N
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