• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Kalshi Referral Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • Polymarket Referral Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • Betr Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
      • Gemini Predictions Promo Code
    • NFL Week 6
      NFL Week 6
      • NFL Odds
      • NFL Picks
      • Moneyline Picks
      • NFL ATS Picks
      • Survivor Picks
      • Week 6 Odds
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | General Discussion

    Christianity continued....

    «First Previous 678 ... 91011 Next Last»
    EX4life
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 11626
    Posts: 257
    «First Previous 678 ... 91011 Next Last»
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:31 PM ET #126

    The Lord instructed Ezekiel not to mourn for the dead when the delight of his eyes is taken away. In the morning he told the people what his orders were, and that evening his wife died. Then the people asked how his loss and his response applied to them. Ezekiel said he was to be a sign to the person in Babylonian exile. He was not allowed to appear to be in mourning with clothing or weeping, and could only groan and waste away. The person in exile were not allowed to mourn when they hear that sanctuary in Jerusalem has been destroyed. When they see their number wasting away due to their sins, they will know that the Sovereign Lord made it so.

    Ezekiel does not pretend that these two sisters are real people. From the beginning he identifies them with the capitals of the two halves of Israel (Samaria and Jerusalem). The story of the two sisters is, in a sense, one more graphic way of saying that God has been patient with Jerusalem long enough.

    God had promised the Israelites everything their hearts desired if they would stick by Him. But they were always cozying up to other nations whose prosperity and power were envied. In those days, a little nation like Israel couldn't just sign a friendship pact with a big power. Political alliances meant accepting the big power's religion and worshiping its gods alongside your own. God warned Israel against this repeatedly, but they ignored the warning. Therefore, Ezekiel says, they will get their wish. They will experience firsthand the care and concern of their Babylonian "lovers."

    God responds like a father who has finally given up trying to regulate his daughter's bad habits. He tells her, "Get out! Find out for yourself what life is like on the street!" God says, "You will drink your sister's cup, which is deep and wide. You will be laughed at and held in derision; it contains much...You will drink it and drain it. Then you will gnaw its fragments and tear your breasts" (Ezekiel 23: 32-34). He says it in anger, but also in hope that such bitter grief will awaken Israel to the disastrous choices she made in rejecting God's care.
    Reply
    The Lord instructed Ezekiel not to mourn for the dead when the delight of his eyes is taken away. In the morning he told the people what his orders were, and that evening his wife died. Then the people asked how his loss and his response applied to them. Ezekiel said he was to be a sign to the person in Babylonian exile. He was not allowed to appear to be in mourning with clothing or weeping, and could only groan and waste away. The person in exile were not allowed to mourn when they hear that sanctuary in Jerusalem has been destroyed. When they see their number wasting away due to their sins, they will know that the Sovereign Lord made it so.

    Ezekiel does not pretend that these two sisters are real people. From the beginning he identifies them with the capitals of the two halves of Israel (Samaria and Jerusalem). The story of the two sisters is, in a sense, one more graphic way of saying that God has been patient with Jerusalem long enough.

    God had promised the Israelites everything their hearts desired if they would stick by Him. But they were always cozying up to other nations whose prosperity and power were envied. In those days, a little nation like Israel couldn't just sign a friendship pact with a big power. Political alliances meant accepting the big power's religion and worshiping its gods alongside your own. God warned Israel against this repeatedly, but they ignored the warning. Therefore, Ezekiel says, they will get their wish. They will experience firsthand the care and concern of their Babylonian "lovers."

    God responds like a father who has finally given up trying to regulate his daughter's bad habits. He tells her, "Get out! Find out for yourself what life is like on the street!" God says, "You will drink your sister's cup, which is deep and wide. You will be laughed at and held in derision; it contains much...You will drink it and drain it. Then you will gnaw its fragments and tear your breasts" (Ezekiel 23: 32-34). He says it in anger, but also in hope that such bitter grief will awaken Israel to the disastrous choices she made in rejecting God's care.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:32 PM ET #127

    "So you only believe in science when it SUPPORTS your case?"
    The Bible takes God's existence as a given. It never attempts to prove the existence of God, and this for a very good reason. When we logically prove a particular thing, we show that it must be true because it follows logically from something authoritative. But there is nothing more authoritative that God and His Word. God knows absolutely everything. So it makes sense to base our worldview on what God has written in His Word.

    Some people claim that it is unscientific to start from God's Word. But in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. A belief in God is actually foundational to logical thought and scientific inquiry. Think about it: why is logical reasoning possible? There are laws of logic we use when we reason. For example (and I actually still have my notebook from high school with all my notes and tests from my logic class; really sad, but helpful sometimes haha), there is the law of noncontradiction, which states that you can't have "A" and "not-A" at the same time and in the same relationship. We all "know" that this is true. But why is this true, and how do we know it?

    The Bible makes sense of this: God is self-consistent. He is noncontradictory, and so this law follows from God's nature. And God has made us in His image; so we instinctively know this law. It has been hard-wired into us. Logical reasoning is possible because God is logical and has made us in His image. (Of course, because of sin we sometimes make mistakes in logic)
    Reply
    "So you only believe in science when it SUPPORTS your case?"
    The Bible takes God's existence as a given. It never attempts to prove the existence of God, and this for a very good reason. When we logically prove a particular thing, we show that it must be true because it follows logically from something authoritative. But there is nothing more authoritative that God and His Word. God knows absolutely everything. So it makes sense to base our worldview on what God has written in His Word.

    Some people claim that it is unscientific to start from God's Word. But in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. A belief in God is actually foundational to logical thought and scientific inquiry. Think about it: why is logical reasoning possible? There are laws of logic we use when we reason. For example (and I actually still have my notebook from high school with all my notes and tests from my logic class; really sad, but helpful sometimes haha), there is the law of noncontradiction, which states that you can't have "A" and "not-A" at the same time and in the same relationship. We all "know" that this is true. But why is this true, and how do we know it?

    The Bible makes sense of this: God is self-consistent. He is noncontradictory, and so this law follows from God's nature. And God has made us in His image; so we instinctively know this law. It has been hard-wired into us. Logical reasoning is possible because God is logical and has made us in His image. (Of course, because of sin we sometimes make mistakes in logic)
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:32 PM ET #128

    Let's take into account the Creation story. If the universe were merely a chance accident, then why should logical reasoning be possible? If my brain is merely a product of mutations (guided only by natural selection), then why should I think that it can determine what is true? The secular, evolutionary worldview cannot account for the existence of logical reasoning.

    Likewise, only a biblical worldview can really account for the existence of science - the study of the natural world. Science depends on the fact that the universe obeys orderly laws which do not arbitrarily change. But why should that be so? If the universe were merely an accident, why should it obey logical, orderly laws - or any laws at all for that matter? And why should these laws not be constantly changing, since so many other things change?

    The Bible explains this. There are orderly laws because a logical Law-Giver upholds the universe in a logical and consistent way. God does not change; so He sustains the universe in a consistent way. Only a biblical worldview can account for the existence of science and technology.

    Now, does this mean that a non-Christian is incapable of reasoning logically or doing science? Not at all. But he is being inconsistent. The non-Christian must "borrow" the above biblical principles in order to do science, or to think rationally. But this is inconsistent. The unbeliever must use biblical ideas in order to use science and reason, while he simultaneously denies that the Bible is true.

    Biblical faith isn't believing against the evidence. Instead, faith is a kind of knowing that results in action.
    Reply
    Let's take into account the Creation story. If the universe were merely a chance accident, then why should logical reasoning be possible? If my brain is merely a product of mutations (guided only by natural selection), then why should I think that it can determine what is true? The secular, evolutionary worldview cannot account for the existence of logical reasoning.

    Likewise, only a biblical worldview can really account for the existence of science - the study of the natural world. Science depends on the fact that the universe obeys orderly laws which do not arbitrarily change. But why should that be so? If the universe were merely an accident, why should it obey logical, orderly laws - or any laws at all for that matter? And why should these laws not be constantly changing, since so many other things change?

    The Bible explains this. There are orderly laws because a logical Law-Giver upholds the universe in a logical and consistent way. God does not change; so He sustains the universe in a consistent way. Only a biblical worldview can account for the existence of science and technology.

    Now, does this mean that a non-Christian is incapable of reasoning logically or doing science? Not at all. But he is being inconsistent. The non-Christian must "borrow" the above biblical principles in order to do science, or to think rationally. But this is inconsistent. The unbeliever must use biblical ideas in order to use science and reason, while he simultaneously denies that the Bible is true.

    Biblical faith isn't believing against the evidence. Instead, faith is a kind of knowing that results in action.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:33 PM ET #129

    If we want to exercise biblical faith - Christian faith - then we must first find out how the Bible defines faith. The clearest definition comes from Hebrews 11:1. This verse says, "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Now, there is something very important in these words. We see the word "hope," we see the word "assurance," and we see the word "conviction" - that is confidence. Now, what gives us confidence?

    If you buy a lottery ticket, do you hope you'll win the lottery? Yes, of course you do. Do you have any assurance that you will win the lottery? Absolutely not. You have no way of knowing that your ticket is any better than the millions of other lottery tickets out there competing for the same pot.

    But what if you had x-ray vision, and you could see through the grey scratch-off coating on the lottery tickets you buy at the gas-station? You'd know if you had a minimal, or maximal winner, wouldn't you? In that case, would you merely hope you'd win? No, you would have assurance, wouldn't you? You'd have assurance of those things that you had previously only hoped for. It would be hope with conviction, not a mere hoped, but a hope buttressed by facts and evidence.

    That's why the Christian faith cares about the evidence. For the biblical Christian, the facts matter. You can't have assurance for something you don't know you're going to get. You can only hope for it.
    Reply
    If we want to exercise biblical faith - Christian faith - then we must first find out how the Bible defines faith. The clearest definition comes from Hebrews 11:1. This verse says, "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Now, there is something very important in these words. We see the word "hope," we see the word "assurance," and we see the word "conviction" - that is confidence. Now, what gives us confidence?

    If you buy a lottery ticket, do you hope you'll win the lottery? Yes, of course you do. Do you have any assurance that you will win the lottery? Absolutely not. You have no way of knowing that your ticket is any better than the millions of other lottery tickets out there competing for the same pot.

    But what if you had x-ray vision, and you could see through the grey scratch-off coating on the lottery tickets you buy at the gas-station? You'd know if you had a minimal, or maximal winner, wouldn't you? In that case, would you merely hope you'd win? No, you would have assurance, wouldn't you? You'd have assurance of those things that you had previously only hoped for. It would be hope with conviction, not a mere hoped, but a hope buttressed by facts and evidence.

    That's why the Christian faith cares about the evidence. For the biblical Christian, the facts matter. You can't have assurance for something you don't know you're going to get. You can only hope for it.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:33 PM ET #130

    This is why the resurrection of Jesus is so important. It gives assurance to the hope. Because of a Christian view of faith, Paul is able to say in 1 Corinthians 15, that when it comes to the resurrection, if we have only hope, but no assurance - if Jesus didn't indeed rise from the dead in time/space history - then we are of most men to be pitied.

    This confidence Paul is talking about is not a confidence in a mere "faith" resurrection, a mythical resurrection, a story-telling resurrection. Instead, it's a belief in a real resurrection. If the real resurrection didn't happen, then we are in trouble.

    So, faith is knowing, and that knowledge is based on evidence leading to confidence or conviction. There's another element. Faith is not just knowing. Faith is also acting. Biblical faith is a confidence so strong that it results in action. You're willing to act based on that belief, that faith.
    Reply
    This is why the resurrection of Jesus is so important. It gives assurance to the hope. Because of a Christian view of faith, Paul is able to say in 1 Corinthians 15, that when it comes to the resurrection, if we have only hope, but no assurance - if Jesus didn't indeed rise from the dead in time/space history - then we are of most men to be pitied.

    This confidence Paul is talking about is not a confidence in a mere "faith" resurrection, a mythical resurrection, a story-telling resurrection. Instead, it's a belief in a real resurrection. If the real resurrection didn't happen, then we are in trouble.

    So, faith is knowing, and that knowledge is based on evidence leading to confidence or conviction. There's another element. Faith is not just knowing. Faith is also acting. Biblical faith is a confidence so strong that it results in action. You're willing to act based on that belief, that faith.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:34 PM ET #131

    Christianity is not denying reality; rather, biblical Christians discover reality. And once they've discovered it, they act on what they have learned.

    It's the same way with biblical faith. It's not just intellectual assent. It's not just acknowledging that certain facts about Jesus, the Bible, the resurrection, or whatever, happen to be true. It's taking your life and putting it on the line based on your confidence in those facts.

    Consider a guy who pushes a wheelbarrow across Niagara Falls on a tightrope everyday. You've seen him do it so many times it doesn't even occur to you he won't make it. You believe with all your heart he can do it.
    Reply
    Christianity is not denying reality; rather, biblical Christians discover reality. And once they've discovered it, they act on what they have learned.

    It's the same way with biblical faith. It's not just intellectual assent. It's not just acknowledging that certain facts about Jesus, the Bible, the resurrection, or whatever, happen to be true. It's taking your life and putting it on the line based on your confidence in those facts.

    Consider a guy who pushes a wheelbarrow across Niagara Falls on a tightrope everyday. You've seen him do it so many times it doesn't even occur to you he won't make it. You believe with all your heart he can do it.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:34 PM ET #132

    One day he comes up to you and asks, "Do you believe I can push this wheelbarrow across this tightrope without falling?" And you say, "Of course I do. I've seen you do it hundreds of times." "All right," he says, "get in the wheelbarrow."

    Well, now we're talking about a whole different kind of thing, aren't we? The first is an intellectual belief, an acknowledgement of certain facts. The second is active faith, converting your knowledge into action. When you climb into the wheelbarrow, your belief in facts is converted into active trust.

    Faith is knowledge in action. It is active trust in the truth.
    Reply
    One day he comes up to you and asks, "Do you believe I can push this wheelbarrow across this tightrope without falling?" And you say, "Of course I do. I've seen you do it hundreds of times." "All right," he says, "get in the wheelbarrow."

    Well, now we're talking about a whole different kind of thing, aren't we? The first is an intellectual belief, an acknowledgement of certain facts. The second is active faith, converting your knowledge into action. When you climb into the wheelbarrow, your belief in facts is converted into active trust.

    Faith is knowledge in action. It is active trust in the truth.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:34 PM ET #133

    Do faith in God and science contradict?
    Science is defined by, "the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena." Science is a method that mankind can use to gain a greater understanding of the natural universe. It's a search for knowledge through observation. Advances in science demonstrate the reach of human logic and imagination. However, a Christian's belief in science should never be like our belief in God. A Christian can have a belief in God and respect for science, as long as we remember which is perfect and which is not.

    Our belief in God is a belief of faith. We have faith in His Son for salvation, faith in His Word for instruction, and faith in His Holy Spirit for guidance. Our faith in God should be absolute, since when we put our faith in God, we depend on a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient Creator. Our belief in science should be intellectual and nothing more. We can count on science to do many great things, but we can also count on science to make mistakes. If we put faith in science, we depend on imperfect, sinful, limited, mortal men. Science throughout history has been wrong about many things, such as the shape of the earth, powered flight, vaccines, blood transfusions, and even reproduction. God is never wrong.
    Reply
    Do faith in God and science contradict?
    Science is defined by, "the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena." Science is a method that mankind can use to gain a greater understanding of the natural universe. It's a search for knowledge through observation. Advances in science demonstrate the reach of human logic and imagination. However, a Christian's belief in science should never be like our belief in God. A Christian can have a belief in God and respect for science, as long as we remember which is perfect and which is not.

    Our belief in God is a belief of faith. We have faith in His Son for salvation, faith in His Word for instruction, and faith in His Holy Spirit for guidance. Our faith in God should be absolute, since when we put our faith in God, we depend on a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient Creator. Our belief in science should be intellectual and nothing more. We can count on science to do many great things, but we can also count on science to make mistakes. If we put faith in science, we depend on imperfect, sinful, limited, mortal men. Science throughout history has been wrong about many things, such as the shape of the earth, powered flight, vaccines, blood transfusions, and even reproduction. God is never wrong.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:34 PM ET #134

    Truth is nothing to fear, so there is no reason for a Christian to fear good science. Learning more about the way God constructed our universe helps all of mankind appreciate the wonder of creation. Expanding our knowledge helps us to combat disease, ignorance, and misunderstanding. However, there is a danger when scientists hold their faith in human logic above faith in our Creator. These persons are no different from anyone devoted to a religion; they have chosen faith in man and will find facts to defend that faith.

    Still, the most rational scientists, even those who refuse to believe in God, admit to a lack of completeness in our understanding of the universe. They will admit that neither God nor the Bible can be proved or disproved by science, just as many of their favorite theories ultimately cannot be proved or disproved. Science is meant to be a truly neutral discipline, seeking only the truth, not furtherance of an agenda.

    Much of science supports the existence and work of God. Psalm 19:1 says. "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands." As modern science discovers more about the universe, we find more evidence of creation. The amazing complexity and replication of DNA, the intricate and interlocking laws of physics, and the absolute harmony of conditions and chemistry here on earth all serve to support the message of the Bible. A Christian should embrace science that seeks the truth, but reject the "priests of science" who put human knowledge above God.
    Reply
    Truth is nothing to fear, so there is no reason for a Christian to fear good science. Learning more about the way God constructed our universe helps all of mankind appreciate the wonder of creation. Expanding our knowledge helps us to combat disease, ignorance, and misunderstanding. However, there is a danger when scientists hold their faith in human logic above faith in our Creator. These persons are no different from anyone devoted to a religion; they have chosen faith in man and will find facts to defend that faith.

    Still, the most rational scientists, even those who refuse to believe in God, admit to a lack of completeness in our understanding of the universe. They will admit that neither God nor the Bible can be proved or disproved by science, just as many of their favorite theories ultimately cannot be proved or disproved. Science is meant to be a truly neutral discipline, seeking only the truth, not furtherance of an agenda.

    Much of science supports the existence and work of God. Psalm 19:1 says. "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands." As modern science discovers more about the universe, we find more evidence of creation. The amazing complexity and replication of DNA, the intricate and interlocking laws of physics, and the absolute harmony of conditions and chemistry here on earth all serve to support the message of the Bible. A Christian should embrace science that seeks the truth, but reject the "priests of science" who put human knowledge above God.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:35 PM ET #135

    One of my favorite speakers to listen/watch is pastor, speaker and founder of the Passion Movement, Louie Giglio. The DVD I am specifically talking about is "The Passion Talk Series," a 4-disc series, in which Louie Giglio "paints a picture of what our lives look like when we live for something larger than ourselves." The specific talk that I will be commenting on is called "How Great is Our God." I strongly encourage any and everybody to get this DVD. It is very powerful.

    Louie Giglio talks about the magnificence of God, and about how small we are as humans compared to God and His creation. He says, "Although we are a vapor, you and me, and tiny and frail, we are marked by majesty. And we are created in the very image of the God who breathes out the stars and put the universe into place. You and I are fashioned and formed and ordained by the God of all creation. We are fearfully and wonderfully made, you and I. We are a miracle. You're a miracle sitting in the building tonight. If I could just remind you for just a moment, you are somebody incredibly special."

    He goes on, "Let me just dial back to the beginning and I know you know this already, but at the very, very beginning, here is how you happened, okay? One cell from your mom, found one cell from your dad. Each one carrying 23 chromosomes. The one from your mom was carrying half of her DNA, the one from your dad was carrying half of his DNA, and those two cells met and merged into one, single cell. And when they did, those chromosomes matched, and they began to form together a brand new DNA code. Using four characters, four neucleotides, they began to write out what we have now discovered is the three billion character description of who you are, written in the language of God. They wrote out your DNA, your human genome, of three billion characters, made up of those four simple neucleotides. And when they did, they described who God had ordained you to be. In that one little, simple cell! Scientist's say that if you took the DNA out of that one little cell, and stretched it out, that DNA would be six feet long; three billion characters, stretched out to six feet long. So amazing that if I were to read your DNA, reading one character per second, night and day, it would take 96 years just to read the description of you. And when they formed together, they wrote out and painted a picture which had never been written before in the history of humankind. And then that cell did the unthinkable; it set out to build that model, from one cell. I'm telling you, you are a miracle sitting in this building tonight. And you have come a long, long way."
    Reply
    One of my favorite speakers to listen/watch is pastor, speaker and founder of the Passion Movement, Louie Giglio. The DVD I am specifically talking about is "The Passion Talk Series," a 4-disc series, in which Louie Giglio "paints a picture of what our lives look like when we live for something larger than ourselves." The specific talk that I will be commenting on is called "How Great is Our God." I strongly encourage any and everybody to get this DVD. It is very powerful.

    Louie Giglio talks about the magnificence of God, and about how small we are as humans compared to God and His creation. He says, "Although we are a vapor, you and me, and tiny and frail, we are marked by majesty. And we are created in the very image of the God who breathes out the stars and put the universe into place. You and I are fashioned and formed and ordained by the God of all creation. We are fearfully and wonderfully made, you and I. We are a miracle. You're a miracle sitting in the building tonight. If I could just remind you for just a moment, you are somebody incredibly special."

    He goes on, "Let me just dial back to the beginning and I know you know this already, but at the very, very beginning, here is how you happened, okay? One cell from your mom, found one cell from your dad. Each one carrying 23 chromosomes. The one from your mom was carrying half of her DNA, the one from your dad was carrying half of his DNA, and those two cells met and merged into one, single cell. And when they did, those chromosomes matched, and they began to form together a brand new DNA code. Using four characters, four neucleotides, they began to write out what we have now discovered is the three billion character description of who you are, written in the language of God. They wrote out your DNA, your human genome, of three billion characters, made up of those four simple neucleotides. And when they did, they described who God had ordained you to be. In that one little, simple cell! Scientist's say that if you took the DNA out of that one little cell, and stretched it out, that DNA would be six feet long; three billion characters, stretched out to six feet long. So amazing that if I were to read your DNA, reading one character per second, night and day, it would take 96 years just to read the description of you. And when they formed together, they wrote out and painted a picture which had never been written before in the history of humankind. And then that cell did the unthinkable; it set out to build that model, from one cell. I'm telling you, you are a miracle sitting in this building tonight. And you have come a long, long way."
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:35 PM ET #136

    He then goes on to show a picture of 3-day old baby still in the womb; 16 cells. The picture of the 16 cells were shown on the tip of a safety pin. "So now that one cell had turned into 16 cells, on its way to making the 75 trillion cells that make up your body tonight; every one of those 75 trillion cells, containing that 6 feet of the 3 billion character DNA code that's you. There's so much DNA in your body, by the way, that if you stretched it all end to end, there would be enough DNA to go to the moon and back, inside you body, 178,000 times! That's how amazing God has made you to be. 75 trillion cells in your body; and when I told you that, 50,000 of those cells died, and were replaced by brand new cells. And then just now, 50,000 more cells died, and were replaced by brand new cells. It's happening every 3 seconds, day and night, all the days of your existence..." 

    "In the womb, miracles happen every moment. Let me tell you about one. A million optic nerve endings left the optic nerve center of your brain, in the womb, heading for a million optic nerves that had left your eye. And they had to meet and match their exact partner; 1 million looking for 1 million. And when they found their exact partner out of a million, and matched up together, in that instant you had sight. And anyone would tell you, to this moment, the most technologically advanced thing on planet earth is your eye. Oh, but it didn't do you any good because when that moment happened, you just had one piece of skin completely covering your eyeball. But as I read in one textbook, 'Miraculously and mysteriously, at about the sixth month, a little cutting device appeared; and it cut perfectly that piece of skin.' And you had eyelids for the very first time, in your mother's womb. You are... FEARFULLY... and WONDERFULLY made. And the God of the heavens is the one who fashioned you together."

    If you watch this talk on the DVD, it is SO much more powerful than just reading what I have typed here. Again, I highly recommend EVERYONE to watch Louie Giglio's talk.
    Reply
    He then goes on to show a picture of 3-day old baby still in the womb; 16 cells. The picture of the 16 cells were shown on the tip of a safety pin. "So now that one cell had turned into 16 cells, on its way to making the 75 trillion cells that make up your body tonight; every one of those 75 trillion cells, containing that 6 feet of the 3 billion character DNA code that's you. There's so much DNA in your body, by the way, that if you stretched it all end to end, there would be enough DNA to go to the moon and back, inside you body, 178,000 times! That's how amazing God has made you to be. 75 trillion cells in your body; and when I told you that, 50,000 of those cells died, and were replaced by brand new cells. And then just now, 50,000 more cells died, and were replaced by brand new cells. It's happening every 3 seconds, day and night, all the days of your existence..." 

    "In the womb, miracles happen every moment. Let me tell you about one. A million optic nerve endings left the optic nerve center of your brain, in the womb, heading for a million optic nerves that had left your eye. And they had to meet and match their exact partner; 1 million looking for 1 million. And when they found their exact partner out of a million, and matched up together, in that instant you had sight. And anyone would tell you, to this moment, the most technologically advanced thing on planet earth is your eye. Oh, but it didn't do you any good because when that moment happened, you just had one piece of skin completely covering your eyeball. But as I read in one textbook, 'Miraculously and mysteriously, at about the sixth month, a little cutting device appeared; and it cut perfectly that piece of skin.' And you had eyelids for the very first time, in your mother's womb. You are... FEARFULLY... and WONDERFULLY made. And the God of the heavens is the one who fashioned you together."

    If you watch this talk on the DVD, it is SO much more powerful than just reading what I have typed here. Again, I highly recommend EVERYONE to watch Louie Giglio's talk.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:36 PM ET #137

    After reading all of this, you may still ask the question, "Are Christians 'Anti-Science?'"
    Not at all. Science has many Christian roots. Most of the early scientists were Christians (Copernicus, Galileo, Pascal, Isaac Newton, Carl Linnaeus, Johannes Keppler, Robert Boyle, Louis Pasteur, Jean Henri Fabre, etc). The faith of these great scientists was not a separate part of their thinking; it was an integral to their thinking as they operated within a Christian framework.

    An interesting fact is that the vast majority of all scientific development has come out of western civilization, which has Christianity as its basis. Christianity views God as rational and trustworthy, which implies that His creation is rational and orderly, and thus can be examined. The idea of laws of nature came from Christianity. And the concepts of subduing nature and being stewards of nature are right from the first book of the Bible - Genesis.

    Scientific inquiry requires the assumption that the world is real. So science could not have started in the Buddhist or Hindu worlds, where the essence of those religions is that the physical world has no reality, that it is an illusion. Nor could science have begun in the Muslim world because that worldview is dominated by fatalism, and fatalism is antithetical to the concept of progress.
    Reply
    After reading all of this, you may still ask the question, "Are Christians 'Anti-Science?'"
    Not at all. Science has many Christian roots. Most of the early scientists were Christians (Copernicus, Galileo, Pascal, Isaac Newton, Carl Linnaeus, Johannes Keppler, Robert Boyle, Louis Pasteur, Jean Henri Fabre, etc). The faith of these great scientists was not a separate part of their thinking; it was an integral to their thinking as they operated within a Christian framework.

    An interesting fact is that the vast majority of all scientific development has come out of western civilization, which has Christianity as its basis. Christianity views God as rational and trustworthy, which implies that His creation is rational and orderly, and thus can be examined. The idea of laws of nature came from Christianity. And the concepts of subduing nature and being stewards of nature are right from the first book of the Bible - Genesis.

    Scientific inquiry requires the assumption that the world is real. So science could not have started in the Buddhist or Hindu worlds, where the essence of those religions is that the physical world has no reality, that it is an illusion. Nor could science have begun in the Muslim world because that worldview is dominated by fatalism, and fatalism is antithetical to the concept of progress.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:36 PM ET #138

    The Bible was not written as a science textbook. But, when the Bible does reveal truths related to science, the Bible can be trusted. The Bible demonstrates scientific knowledge and concepts far before mankind had developed the technological base for such knowledge. Biologist William J. Cairney discusses many such biblical pre-science evidences in the fields of human health, disease control, agriculture, etc. He states, "These rules of sanitation and diet stand on a foundation requiring considerable knowledge of epidemiology, microbiology, physiology, plant pathology, and animal pathology, all of which require a technological base not available until the last hundred years or so of human history."

    So-called conflicts of science and the Bible are often conflicts between interpretations of the facts. While there are questions for which there are as yet no explanation, there is no fundamental conflict between science and Scripture.

    More importantly, while we live in a time of change and of great scientific discovery, what we discover about the human heart is that it has not changed at all. Matters of human nature, emotions, relationships, and ultimate meaning remain the same. It is in Scripture that we find enduring truths as appropriate for modern man as for ancient man.
    Reply
    The Bible was not written as a science textbook. But, when the Bible does reveal truths related to science, the Bible can be trusted. The Bible demonstrates scientific knowledge and concepts far before mankind had developed the technological base for such knowledge. Biologist William J. Cairney discusses many such biblical pre-science evidences in the fields of human health, disease control, agriculture, etc. He states, "These rules of sanitation and diet stand on a foundation requiring considerable knowledge of epidemiology, microbiology, physiology, plant pathology, and animal pathology, all of which require a technological base not available until the last hundred years or so of human history."

    So-called conflicts of science and the Bible are often conflicts between interpretations of the facts. While there are questions for which there are as yet no explanation, there is no fundamental conflict between science and Scripture.

    More importantly, while we live in a time of change and of great scientific discovery, what we discover about the human heart is that it has not changed at all. Matters of human nature, emotions, relationships, and ultimate meaning remain the same. It is in Scripture that we find enduring truths as appropriate for modern man as for ancient man.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:36 PM ET #139

    Is creationism scientific?
    There is currently a lot of debate over the validity of creationism, defined as "the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution." Creation science is often dismissed by the secular community and accused of lacking scientific value. However, creation is clearly compatible with a scientific approach to any topic. Creationism makes statements about real world events, places, and things. It is not concerned solely with subjective ideas or abstract concepts. There are established scientific facts that are consistent with creationism, and the way in which those facts relate to one another lends itself to a creationist interpretation. Just as other broad scientific ideas are used to lend coherence to a series of facts, so, too, does creationism.

    How, then, is creationism - as opposed to "naturalism," defined as "a philosophical viewpoint according to which everything arises from natural properties and causes, and supernatural or spiritual explanations are excluded or discounted" - scientific? Admittedly, the answer depends on how you define "scientific." Too often, "science" and "naturalism" are considered one and the same, leaving creationist views out by definition. Such a definition requires an irrational reverence of naturalism. I gave the definition of science before, a little ways up closer to the top. Nothing requires science, in and of itself, to be naturalistic. Naturalism, like creationism, requires a series of presuppositions that are not generated by experiments. They are not extrapolated from data or derived from test results. These philosophical presuppositions are accepted before any data is ever taken. Because both naturalism and creationism are strongly influenced by presuppositions that are neither provable nor testable, and enter into the discussion well before the facts do, it is fair to say that creationism is at least as scientific as naturalism.
    Reply
    Is creationism scientific?
    There is currently a lot of debate over the validity of creationism, defined as "the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution." Creation science is often dismissed by the secular community and accused of lacking scientific value. However, creation is clearly compatible with a scientific approach to any topic. Creationism makes statements about real world events, places, and things. It is not concerned solely with subjective ideas or abstract concepts. There are established scientific facts that are consistent with creationism, and the way in which those facts relate to one another lends itself to a creationist interpretation. Just as other broad scientific ideas are used to lend coherence to a series of facts, so, too, does creationism.

    How, then, is creationism - as opposed to "naturalism," defined as "a philosophical viewpoint according to which everything arises from natural properties and causes, and supernatural or spiritual explanations are excluded or discounted" - scientific? Admittedly, the answer depends on how you define "scientific." Too often, "science" and "naturalism" are considered one and the same, leaving creationist views out by definition. Such a definition requires an irrational reverence of naturalism. I gave the definition of science before, a little ways up closer to the top. Nothing requires science, in and of itself, to be naturalistic. Naturalism, like creationism, requires a series of presuppositions that are not generated by experiments. They are not extrapolated from data or derived from test results. These philosophical presuppositions are accepted before any data is ever taken. Because both naturalism and creationism are strongly influenced by presuppositions that are neither provable nor testable, and enter into the discussion well before the facts do, it is fair to say that creationism is at least as scientific as naturalism.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:36 PM ET #140

    Creationism, like naturalism, can be "scientific," in that it is compatible with the scientific method of discovery. These two concepts are not, however, sciences in and of themselves, because both views include aspects that are not considered "scientific" in the normal sense. Neither one is falsifiable; that is, there is no experiment that could conclusively disprove either one. Neither one is predictive; they do not generate or enhance the ability to predict an outcome. Solely on the basis of these two points, we see that there is not logical reason to consider one more scientifically valid than the other.

    One of the major reasons naturalists give for rejecting creationism is the concept of miracles. Ironically, naturalists will typically say that miracles, such as special creation, are impossible because the violate the laws of nature, which have been clearly and historically observed. Such a view is ironic on several counts. As a single example, consider abiogenesis, the theory of life springing from non-living matter. Abiogenesis is one of the most thoroughly refuted concepts of science. Yet, a truly naturalistic viewpoint presumes that life on earth - self-replicating, self-sustaining, complex organic life - arose by chance from non-living matter. Such a thing has never been observed in all of human history. The beneficial evolutionary changes needed to progress a creature to a more complex form have also never been observed. So creationism actually holds the edge on evidence for "miraculous" claims in that the Scriptures provide documented accounts of miraculous happenings. To label creationism as unscientific on account of miracles demands a similar label for naturalism.

    Creationism is not a "science," just as naturalism is not a "science." Creationism is, however, fully compatible with science itself.

    Back a few decades ago, teachers were teaching the creation story in science class, among other biblical concepts. In today's society, a teacher would get fired if teaching remotely close to any biblical topic.
    Reply
    Creationism, like naturalism, can be "scientific," in that it is compatible with the scientific method of discovery. These two concepts are not, however, sciences in and of themselves, because both views include aspects that are not considered "scientific" in the normal sense. Neither one is falsifiable; that is, there is no experiment that could conclusively disprove either one. Neither one is predictive; they do not generate or enhance the ability to predict an outcome. Solely on the basis of these two points, we see that there is not logical reason to consider one more scientifically valid than the other.

    One of the major reasons naturalists give for rejecting creationism is the concept of miracles. Ironically, naturalists will typically say that miracles, such as special creation, are impossible because the violate the laws of nature, which have been clearly and historically observed. Such a view is ironic on several counts. As a single example, consider abiogenesis, the theory of life springing from non-living matter. Abiogenesis is one of the most thoroughly refuted concepts of science. Yet, a truly naturalistic viewpoint presumes that life on earth - self-replicating, self-sustaining, complex organic life - arose by chance from non-living matter. Such a thing has never been observed in all of human history. The beneficial evolutionary changes needed to progress a creature to a more complex form have also never been observed. So creationism actually holds the edge on evidence for "miraculous" claims in that the Scriptures provide documented accounts of miraculous happenings. To label creationism as unscientific on account of miracles demands a similar label for naturalism.

    Creationism is not a "science," just as naturalism is not a "science." Creationism is, however, fully compatible with science itself.

    Back a few decades ago, teachers were teaching the creation story in science class, among other biblical concepts. In today's society, a teacher would get fired if teaching remotely close to any biblical topic.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:37 PM ET #141

    Why is the science community so opposed to creationism?
    It is important to first distinguish between the terms "science" and "scientific community." We know the definition of science, but scientific community is "composed of the living human persons who participate in this discipline." The distinction is important, because there is no logical contradiction between science and creationism. Science is a generic term for a type of study, while creationism is a philosophy applied to the interpretation of facts. The scientific community, as it exists today, holds naturalism as the preferred philosophy, but there is no overt reason why naturalism should be preferred by science over creationism.

    Some of what goes into this is within the last question, but I will go into further detail in regards to this specific question.

    In general, there is a perception that creationism in "unscientific." This is partly true, in the sense that creationism entails certain assumptions that cannot be tested, proven, or falsified. However, naturalism is in exactly the same predicament, as an untestable, unprovable, non-falsifiable philosophy. Facts and interpretations are two different things. The current scientific community rejects, in general, the concepts of creationism, and so they define it as "unscientific." Ironically, as stated above, given the scientific community's preference for an interpretive philosophy - naturalism - that is just as "unscientific" as creationism.

    There are many reasons for this tendency toward naturalism in science. Creationism involves the intervention of a supernatural being, and science is primarily concerned with tangible and physical things. For this reason, some in the scientific community fear that creationism will lead to a "God of the Gaps" dilemma, where scientific questions are shrugged off by the explanation, "God did it." Experience has shown that this is not the case. Some of the greatest names in scientific history were staunch creationists. Their belief in God inspired them to ask, "How did God do it?" Among these names are Pascal, Maxwell, and Kelvin. On the other hand, an unreasonable commitment to naturalism can degrade scientific discovery. A naturalistic framework requires a scientist to ignore results that do not fit the established paradigm. That is, when new data does not correlate to the naturalistic view, it is assumed to be invalid and discarded.
    Reply
    Why is the science community so opposed to creationism?
    It is important to first distinguish between the terms "science" and "scientific community." We know the definition of science, but scientific community is "composed of the living human persons who participate in this discipline." The distinction is important, because there is no logical contradiction between science and creationism. Science is a generic term for a type of study, while creationism is a philosophy applied to the interpretation of facts. The scientific community, as it exists today, holds naturalism as the preferred philosophy, but there is no overt reason why naturalism should be preferred by science over creationism.

    Some of what goes into this is within the last question, but I will go into further detail in regards to this specific question.

    In general, there is a perception that creationism in "unscientific." This is partly true, in the sense that creationism entails certain assumptions that cannot be tested, proven, or falsified. However, naturalism is in exactly the same predicament, as an untestable, unprovable, non-falsifiable philosophy. Facts and interpretations are two different things. The current scientific community rejects, in general, the concepts of creationism, and so they define it as "unscientific." Ironically, as stated above, given the scientific community's preference for an interpretive philosophy - naturalism - that is just as "unscientific" as creationism.

    There are many reasons for this tendency toward naturalism in science. Creationism involves the intervention of a supernatural being, and science is primarily concerned with tangible and physical things. For this reason, some in the scientific community fear that creationism will lead to a "God of the Gaps" dilemma, where scientific questions are shrugged off by the explanation, "God did it." Experience has shown that this is not the case. Some of the greatest names in scientific history were staunch creationists. Their belief in God inspired them to ask, "How did God do it?" Among these names are Pascal, Maxwell, and Kelvin. On the other hand, an unreasonable commitment to naturalism can degrade scientific discovery. A naturalistic framework requires a scientist to ignore results that do not fit the established paradigm. That is, when new data does not correlate to the naturalistic view, it is assumed to be invalid and discarded.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:37 PM ET #142

    There are distinct religious overtones to creationism. Science is only as objective as those who participate in it, and those persons are just as subject to bias as in any other field. There are those who reject creationism in favor of naturalism purely for personal "moral" reasons. In fact, this number is probably much higher than would be admitted to. Most people who reject the concepts of God do so primarily because they disagree with some perceived restriction or unfairness, despite claims to the contrary, and this is as true for those in lab coats as those in overalls.

    In the same way, an unfriendly attitude in the scientific community has had its impact on the perception of creationism. Science has benefited from creationist contributors for centuries; yet today the scientific community, at large, takes a hostile and condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't take a naturalistic perspective. This creates a strong incentive for persons with those views (creationism) to avoid scientific study. In this way, the scientific community has degraded and "pushed out" a segment of the population, and then has the audacity to claim that a lowered percentage of creationists in their ranks is evidence of naturalism's superior scientific merit.

    There are also political reasons for the scientific community's hostility toward creationism and religion in general. Christianity, more so than any other religious system, places immense value on every individual human life. This causes tensions with the scientific community when that concern for life gets in the way of some type of scientific process. Christian values tend to act as a brake on experiments or positions that cause harm to people, or that destroy or damage human life. Examples include embryonic stem cell research, abortion, and euthanasia. While naturalistic scientists may see this as an unnecessary hindrance, they should consider what happens when scientific research is conducted with no regard for morality or conscience. Echoing this idea was actor Jeff Goldblum's character in the movie Jurassic Park. He stated, "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
    Reply
    There are distinct religious overtones to creationism. Science is only as objective as those who participate in it, and those persons are just as subject to bias as in any other field. There are those who reject creationism in favor of naturalism purely for personal "moral" reasons. In fact, this number is probably much higher than would be admitted to. Most people who reject the concepts of God do so primarily because they disagree with some perceived restriction or unfairness, despite claims to the contrary, and this is as true for those in lab coats as those in overalls.

    In the same way, an unfriendly attitude in the scientific community has had its impact on the perception of creationism. Science has benefited from creationist contributors for centuries; yet today the scientific community, at large, takes a hostile and condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't take a naturalistic perspective. This creates a strong incentive for persons with those views (creationism) to avoid scientific study. In this way, the scientific community has degraded and "pushed out" a segment of the population, and then has the audacity to claim that a lowered percentage of creationists in their ranks is evidence of naturalism's superior scientific merit.

    There are also political reasons for the scientific community's hostility toward creationism and religion in general. Christianity, more so than any other religious system, places immense value on every individual human life. This causes tensions with the scientific community when that concern for life gets in the way of some type of scientific process. Christian values tend to act as a brake on experiments or positions that cause harm to people, or that destroy or damage human life. Examples include embryonic stem cell research, abortion, and euthanasia. While naturalistic scientists may see this as an unnecessary hindrance, they should consider what happens when scientific research is conducted with no regard for morality or conscience. Echoing this idea was actor Jeff Goldblum's character in the movie Jurassic Park. He stated, "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:38 PM ET #143

    "A) Somebody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron.
    B) The above logical proof, if correct, would be of an earth-shattering magnitude and would subsequently be published in many major science journals.
    C) The proof has never been (and never will be) inserted into any credible scientific publication.
    D) Since this proof has not met the aforementioned criterion, we can deduce that the proof is incorrect.
    E) This proof is most wrong because EX4life used logic incorrectly.
    F) EX4life is therefore a moron."

    This is a very interesting argument, to say the least. I am not offended, and I will not retaliate by degrading the person who posted this, but I am going to take an extensive amount of time now, and show what mistakes he made in his argument. 

    In high school, the school I went to was a "classical" school, meaning I was taught Latin, Logic, Rhetoric, etc. extensively. Luckily, but I don't really know why, I still have all of my notes, tests, and quizzes, so I will be using them to assist me as well.

    I will first list the names of the individual fallacies he made, followed by the definition, example, and application of each individual fallacy.

    Fallacy of Division: This fallacy is committed when (1) a person reasons that what is true of the whole must be true of the parts and (2) the person fails to justify that inference with the required degree of evidence. It is the misapplication of deductive reasoning.

    That this line of reasoning is fallacious is made clear by the following case: 6 is an even number; 1 and 5 are parts of 6. Therefore, 1 and 5 are even.

    Example: 
    A) "X" is a company with great influence in the NC legislature.
    B) J. Doe works at "X."
    C) J. Doe must have great influence in the NC legislature.

    Application:
    A) Somebody who uses logic incorrectly ("X") is a moron (NC legislature).
    B) This proof is most wrong because EX4life (J. Doe) used logic incorrectly ("X").
    C) Ex4life (J. Doe) is therefore a moron (NC legislature).

    Now, it should be noted that it is not always fallacious to draw a conclusion about the parts of a whole based on the properties of the whole. As long as adequate evidence is provided in the argument, the reasoning can be acceptable. The problem with the argument that was commented in this thread, is that the arguer is suggesting that since "everybody (the whole) that uses logic incorrectly is a moron," and that "EX4life (the part) used logic incorrectly," then I must be a moron. And with no other evidence to prove that I am a moron, whether my logistical proof is valid or not, creates the Fallacy of Division.
    Reply
    "A) Somebody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron.
    B) The above logical proof, if correct, would be of an earth-shattering magnitude and would subsequently be published in many major science journals.
    C) The proof has never been (and never will be) inserted into any credible scientific publication.
    D) Since this proof has not met the aforementioned criterion, we can deduce that the proof is incorrect.
    E) This proof is most wrong because EX4life used logic incorrectly.
    F) EX4life is therefore a moron."

    This is a very interesting argument, to say the least. I am not offended, and I will not retaliate by degrading the person who posted this, but I am going to take an extensive amount of time now, and show what mistakes he made in his argument. 

    In high school, the school I went to was a "classical" school, meaning I was taught Latin, Logic, Rhetoric, etc. extensively. Luckily, but I don't really know why, I still have all of my notes, tests, and quizzes, so I will be using them to assist me as well.

    I will first list the names of the individual fallacies he made, followed by the definition, example, and application of each individual fallacy.

    Fallacy of Division: This fallacy is committed when (1) a person reasons that what is true of the whole must be true of the parts and (2) the person fails to justify that inference with the required degree of evidence. It is the misapplication of deductive reasoning.

    That this line of reasoning is fallacious is made clear by the following case: 6 is an even number; 1 and 5 are parts of 6. Therefore, 1 and 5 are even.

    Example: 
    A) "X" is a company with great influence in the NC legislature.
    B) J. Doe works at "X."
    C) J. Doe must have great influence in the NC legislature.

    Application:
    A) Somebody who uses logic incorrectly ("X") is a moron (NC legislature).
    B) This proof is most wrong because EX4life (J. Doe) used logic incorrectly ("X").
    C) Ex4life (J. Doe) is therefore a moron (NC legislature).

    Now, it should be noted that it is not always fallacious to draw a conclusion about the parts of a whole based on the properties of the whole. As long as adequate evidence is provided in the argument, the reasoning can be acceptable. The problem with the argument that was commented in this thread, is that the arguer is suggesting that since "everybody (the whole) that uses logic incorrectly is a moron," and that "EX4life (the part) used logic incorrectly," then I must be a moron. And with no other evidence to prove that I am a moron, whether my logistical proof is valid or not, creates the Fallacy of Division.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:38 PM ET #144

    Hasty Generalization: This is a conclusion based on insufficient or biased evidence. In other words, you are drawing a conclusion based on a sample that is not large enough. The fallacy follows this type of reasoning:

    Example: 
    1) Y% of all observed A's are B's.
    2) Therefore, Y% of all A's are B's.

    Application:
    In the 1st line of the argument, it says that whoever (Y%) uses logic incorrectly (A's) is a moron (B's), and since EX4life (Y%) used logic incorrectly (A's), the conclusion is drawn that he is, therefore, a moron (B's). 

    The fallacy is committed when not enough "A's" are observed to warrant the conclusion. The arguer would have had to present some sort of reliable information, stating the sample number of people that have used logic incorrectly (with that sample size being large enough to support the whole number of people), and had to have shown how the incorrect use of logic made them a moron. By only including me in that sample, it commits the fallacy of Hasty Generalization.

    Biased Sample Fallacy: When a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is biased or prejudiced in some manner. It is very similar to Hasty Generalization, and uses the same reasoning:

    Example: 
    1) Y% of all observed A's are B's.
    2) Therefore, Y% of all A's are B's.

    Application:
    A sample is biased or loaded when the method used to take the sample is likely to result in a sample that does not adequately represent the population from which it is drawn. By narrowing down the argument of whether God exists or not, by saying that it would be published in many major science journals, would be making the mistake of a biased sample. As stated several paragraphs up, the scientific community has "pushed out" creationism, giving one reason as to why there's not much "buzz" on the topic. But I will say now, that there have been publications in major science journals about the existence of God, creation, etc, and will go into detail about that at the end.
    Reply
    Hasty Generalization: This is a conclusion based on insufficient or biased evidence. In other words, you are drawing a conclusion based on a sample that is not large enough. The fallacy follows this type of reasoning:

    Example: 
    1) Y% of all observed A's are B's.
    2) Therefore, Y% of all A's are B's.

    Application:
    In the 1st line of the argument, it says that whoever (Y%) uses logic incorrectly (A's) is a moron (B's), and since EX4life (Y%) used logic incorrectly (A's), the conclusion is drawn that he is, therefore, a moron (B's). 

    The fallacy is committed when not enough "A's" are observed to warrant the conclusion. The arguer would have had to present some sort of reliable information, stating the sample number of people that have used logic incorrectly (with that sample size being large enough to support the whole number of people), and had to have shown how the incorrect use of logic made them a moron. By only including me in that sample, it commits the fallacy of Hasty Generalization.

    Biased Sample Fallacy: When a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is biased or prejudiced in some manner. It is very similar to Hasty Generalization, and uses the same reasoning:

    Example: 
    1) Y% of all observed A's are B's.
    2) Therefore, Y% of all A's are B's.

    Application:
    A sample is biased or loaded when the method used to take the sample is likely to result in a sample that does not adequately represent the population from which it is drawn. By narrowing down the argument of whether God exists or not, by saying that it would be published in many major science journals, would be making the mistake of a biased sample. As stated several paragraphs up, the scientific community has "pushed out" creationism, giving one reason as to why there's not much "buzz" on the topic. But I will say now, that there have been publications in major science journals about the existence of God, creation, etc, and will go into detail about that at the end.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:38 PM ET #145

    Appeal to Biased Authority: In this sort of appeal, the authority is one who actually is knowledgeable on the matter, but one who may have professional or personal motivations that render his professional judgment suspect. 

    Example: "To determine whether fraternities are beneficial to this campus, we interviewed all the frat presidents."

    Application: To determine whether God exists, there must have been major science journals, publishing such a proof. But, again, the "scientific community" has degraded, lashed out, and driven away many creationists; forcing the conclusion of the existence of God on the basis of a group of people that have adamantly rejected what the proof is trying to prove. Indeed, it is important to get "both viewpoints" on an argument, but basing a substantial part of your argument on a source that has personal, professional, or financial interests at stake may lead to biased arguments (But as I said, I will show that the existence of God, creation, etc has been published in major science journals, later on).

    Ad Hominem: An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. This argument has the following form:

    Example:
    1) Person A makes claim X.
    2) Person B makes an attack on Person A.
    3) Therefore, A's claim is false.

    Application:
    Person A (Me) said that God exists (claim X). The arguer (Person B) states that somebody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron, continuing to say that I am a moron because I (Person A) used logic incorrectly, making my argument false. The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made.
    Reply
    Appeal to Biased Authority: In this sort of appeal, the authority is one who actually is knowledgeable on the matter, but one who may have professional or personal motivations that render his professional judgment suspect. 

    Example: "To determine whether fraternities are beneficial to this campus, we interviewed all the frat presidents."

    Application: To determine whether God exists, there must have been major science journals, publishing such a proof. But, again, the "scientific community" has degraded, lashed out, and driven away many creationists; forcing the conclusion of the existence of God on the basis of a group of people that have adamantly rejected what the proof is trying to prove. Indeed, it is important to get "both viewpoints" on an argument, but basing a substantial part of your argument on a source that has personal, professional, or financial interests at stake may lead to biased arguments (But as I said, I will show that the existence of God, creation, etc has been published in major science journals, later on).

    Ad Hominem: An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. This argument has the following form:

    Example:
    1) Person A makes claim X.
    2) Person B makes an attack on Person A.
    3) Therefore, A's claim is false.

    Application:
    Person A (Me) said that God exists (claim X). The arguer (Person B) states that somebody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron, continuing to say that I am a moron because I (Person A) used logic incorrectly, making my argument false. The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:39 PM ET #146

    Non Sequitur: Any argument that does not follow from the previous statements. Usually what happens is that the writer leaps from A to B and then jumps to D, leaving out step C of an argument. 

    Application: In this particular argument, the writer starts by stating that anybody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron. But the next three lines of the argument go off on a tangent about why my logical proof is wrong, based on the lack of the publishing of my claim in science journals; only to end the argument by concluding that I am a moron. His conclusion is that I am a moron, and yet he is trying to prove 2 different points here.

    Irrelevant Conclusion: This fallacy occurs when an arguer adapts an argument purporting to establish a particular conclusion and directs it to prove a different conclusion. 

    One of the most common forms of Irrelevant Conclusion is the"Red Herring." A red herring is a fallacy of distraction, and is a deliberate attempt to change the subject or divert the argument from the real question at issue to some side-point. 

    Example: 
    1) Topic A is under discussion.
    2) Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to Topic A (when Topic B is actually not relevant to Topic A).
    3) Topic A is abandoned.

    Application: I presented an argument for the existence of God (Topic A). My arguer presents his logical proof (Topic B) to show that God does not exist; doing so by showing and concluding that I am a moron. To make the conclusion that I am a moron is not relevant to the topic of whether God exists or not.

    Straw Man Argument: A straw man argument is one that misrepresents a position in order to make it appear weaker than it actually is, refutes this misrepresentation of the position, and then concludes that the real position has been refuted. 

    Application: In line C of my arguer's proof, he states that the proof in question has never been inserted into any credible scientific publication. This argument is made weak by being overstated - in fact, there are many, many scientists in history (past and present), that have discovered, published, etc many things relating to Christianity, creationism, and the existence of God. As I have said plenty, I am going to give many examples shortly; but to say that such a proof has never (and will never) be published in a credible scientific publication does not strengthen the argument; rather, he has just committed a fallacy.
    Reply
    Non Sequitur: Any argument that does not follow from the previous statements. Usually what happens is that the writer leaps from A to B and then jumps to D, leaving out step C of an argument. 

    Application: In this particular argument, the writer starts by stating that anybody who uses logic incorrectly is a moron. But the next three lines of the argument go off on a tangent about why my logical proof is wrong, based on the lack of the publishing of my claim in science journals; only to end the argument by concluding that I am a moron. His conclusion is that I am a moron, and yet he is trying to prove 2 different points here.

    Irrelevant Conclusion: This fallacy occurs when an arguer adapts an argument purporting to establish a particular conclusion and directs it to prove a different conclusion. 

    One of the most common forms of Irrelevant Conclusion is the"Red Herring." A red herring is a fallacy of distraction, and is a deliberate attempt to change the subject or divert the argument from the real question at issue to some side-point. 

    Example: 
    1) Topic A is under discussion.
    2) Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to Topic A (when Topic B is actually not relevant to Topic A).
    3) Topic A is abandoned.

    Application: I presented an argument for the existence of God (Topic A). My arguer presents his logical proof (Topic B) to show that God does not exist; doing so by showing and concluding that I am a moron. To make the conclusion that I am a moron is not relevant to the topic of whether God exists or not.

    Straw Man Argument: A straw man argument is one that misrepresents a position in order to make it appear weaker than it actually is, refutes this misrepresentation of the position, and then concludes that the real position has been refuted. 

    Application: In line C of my arguer's proof, he states that the proof in question has never been inserted into any credible scientific publication. This argument is made weak by being overstated - in fact, there are many, many scientists in history (past and present), that have discovered, published, etc many things relating to Christianity, creationism, and the existence of God. As I have said plenty, I am going to give many examples shortly; but to say that such a proof has never (and will never) be published in a credible scientific publication does not strengthen the argument; rather, he has just committed a fallacy.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:39 PM ET #147

    Appeal to Ignorance: Arguments from ignorance infer that a proposition is true from the fact that it is not known to be false. The arguer basically says, "Look, there's no conclusive evidence on the issue at hand. Therefore, you should accept my conclusion on this issue." 

    Example: "People have been trying for centuries to prove that God exists. But no one has yet been able to prove it. Therefore, God does not exist." The arguer is trying to use the lack of evidence as support for a positive claim about the truth of a conclusion.

    Application: In line B, it says that if my proof was correct, it would be such a "earth-shattering" discovery, that it would be published in many major science journals. Line C goes on to say that such a proof has never made it into any credible scientific journals. Therefore, the proof in question is false. He is trying to use the lack of evidence for the existence of God in scientific journals to conclude that God does not exist.

    Stacking the Deck: Finally, in this fallacy, the speaker "stacks the deck" in his favor by ignoring examples that disprove the point, and listing only those examples that support his case. 

    Application: Again, by saying that the proof of God's existence has never been inserted into any credible scientific publication is simply not true. First of all, it would be hard to find every "credible scientific publication," to see if such a proof has, or has not been made. But to say it never has been (or ever will be), is just not the case, and here is where I will show why.

    What I am going to do now is list some (this is just scratching the surface on how many people I could list) of the credible people throughout history that have given evidence for the proof of God's existence, and/or have contributed other things directly to science, relating to God and Christianity (I am going to list the name, date born, and give the name of the book, journal, discovery, etc of each individual).
    Reply
    Appeal to Ignorance: Arguments from ignorance infer that a proposition is true from the fact that it is not known to be false. The arguer basically says, "Look, there's no conclusive evidence on the issue at hand. Therefore, you should accept my conclusion on this issue." 

    Example: "People have been trying for centuries to prove that God exists. But no one has yet been able to prove it. Therefore, God does not exist." The arguer is trying to use the lack of evidence as support for a positive claim about the truth of a conclusion.

    Application: In line B, it says that if my proof was correct, it would be such a "earth-shattering" discovery, that it would be published in many major science journals. Line C goes on to say that such a proof has never made it into any credible scientific journals. Therefore, the proof in question is false. He is trying to use the lack of evidence for the existence of God in scientific journals to conclude that God does not exist.

    Stacking the Deck: Finally, in this fallacy, the speaker "stacks the deck" in his favor by ignoring examples that disprove the point, and listing only those examples that support his case. 

    Application: Again, by saying that the proof of God's existence has never been inserted into any credible scientific publication is simply not true. First of all, it would be hard to find every "credible scientific publication," to see if such a proof has, or has not been made. But to say it never has been (or ever will be), is just not the case, and here is where I will show why.

    What I am going to do now is list some (this is just scratching the surface on how many people I could list) of the credible people throughout history that have given evidence for the proof of God's existence, and/or have contributed other things directly to science, relating to God and Christianity (I am going to list the name, date born, and give the name of the book, journal, discovery, etc of each individual).
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:39 PM ET #148

    Hunaynibn Ishaq (born 809): Assyrian Christian physician, translating Greek scientific works and the author of Ten Treatises of Ophthalmology. He also wrote "How to Grasp Religion," which involved the apologetics for his faith. 
    Hugh of Saint Victor (born 1096): Influential mystic and philosopher who embraced science as a tool for approaching God. His work presents knowledge of reality as redemptive of fallen man; and technology as source of physical relief and able to help reunite man with divine wisdom.
    Michael Stifel (born 1486): Monk and mathematician. HisArithmetica integra contained important innovations in mathematical notation and a table of integers and powers of 2. He also wrote on Biblical prophecies.
    John Napier (born 1550): Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. He was also a staunch Protestant who wrote on the Book of Revelation.
    Francis Bacon (born 1561): Eminent English scientist and originator of the Baconian method (or scientific method).
    Johannes Kepler (born 1571): His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous astronomical observations.
    Marin Mersenne (born 1588): For four years he devoted himself to theology writing Quaestiones celeberrimae in Genesim (1623) and L'Impiete des deistes (1624). These were theological essays against atheism and deism. He is more remembered for the work he did corresponding with mathematicians and concerning Mersenne primes.
    Blaise Pascal (born 1623): Jansenist thinker (Jansenism was a Christian theological movement, primarily in France, that emphasized original sin, human depravity, and the necessity of divine grace) well known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
    Robert Boyle (born 1627): Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of science could improve glorification of God.
    John Ray (born 1627): English botanist who wrote The Wisdom of God manifested in the Works of the Creation (1691). The John Ray Initiative of Environment and Christianity is also named for him.
    Reply
    Hunaynibn Ishaq (born 809): Assyrian Christian physician, translating Greek scientific works and the author of Ten Treatises of Ophthalmology. He also wrote "How to Grasp Religion," which involved the apologetics for his faith. 
    Hugh of Saint Victor (born 1096): Influential mystic and philosopher who embraced science as a tool for approaching God. His work presents knowledge of reality as redemptive of fallen man; and technology as source of physical relief and able to help reunite man with divine wisdom.
    Michael Stifel (born 1486): Monk and mathematician. HisArithmetica integra contained important innovations in mathematical notation and a table of integers and powers of 2. He also wrote on Biblical prophecies.
    John Napier (born 1550): Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. He was also a staunch Protestant who wrote on the Book of Revelation.
    Francis Bacon (born 1561): Eminent English scientist and originator of the Baconian method (or scientific method).
    Johannes Kepler (born 1571): His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous astronomical observations.
    Marin Mersenne (born 1588): For four years he devoted himself to theology writing Quaestiones celeberrimae in Genesim (1623) and L'Impiete des deistes (1624). These were theological essays against atheism and deism. He is more remembered for the work he did corresponding with mathematicians and concerning Mersenne primes.
    Blaise Pascal (born 1623): Jansenist thinker (Jansenism was a Christian theological movement, primarily in France, that emphasized original sin, human depravity, and the necessity of divine grace) well known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
    Robert Boyle (born 1627): Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of science could improve glorification of God.
    John Ray (born 1627): English botanist who wrote The Wisdom of God manifested in the Works of the Creation (1691). The John Ray Initiative of Environment and Christianity is also named for him.
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:40 PM ET #149

    Isaac Newton (born 1643): He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and mathematicians in history. Newton's study of the Bible and of the early Church Fathers were among his greatest passions.
    Carolus Linnaeus (born 1707): He is known as the "father of modern taxonomy" and also made contributions to ecology. Natural theology and the Bible were important to his Systema Naturae and Systema Vegetabilium.
    Leonhard Euler (born 1707): A significant mathematician and physicist. In mathematics and physics, there is a large number of topics named in his honor, many of which include their own unique function, equation, formula, identity, number (single or sentence), or other mathematical entity. Euler's work touched upon so many fields that he is often the earliest written reference on a given matter. He wrote Defense of the Divine Revelation against the Objections of Freethinkers and is also commemorated by the Lutheran Church on their Calendar of Saints on May 24th.
    Samuel Vince (born 1749): Cambridge astronomer and clergyman. He wrote Observations on the Theory of the Motion and Resistance of Fluids and The Credibility of Christianity vindicated. He won the Copley Medal in 1780.
    Olinthus Gregory (born 1774): He wrote Lessons Astronomical and Philosophical in 1793, and became mathematical master at the Royal Military Academy. An abridgment of his 1815 Letters on the Evidences of Christianity was done by the Religious Tract Society.
    Adam Sedgwick (born 1785): Anglican priest and geologist whose, A Discourse on the Studies of the University discusses the relationship of God and man. In science he won the Copley Medal and Wollaston Medal.
    Michael Faraday (born 1791): A Glasite church elder, he discussed the relationship of science to religion in a lecture opposing Spiritualism.
    Philip Henry Gosse (born 1810): Marine biologist who wrote Aquarium (1854), and A Manual of Marine Zoology (1855-56). He is more famous, or infamous, as a Christian Fundamentalist who coined the idea of Omphalos (theology).
    George Stokes (born 1819): A minister's son, he wrote a book on Natural Theology. He was also one of the Presidents of the Royal Society and made contributions to Fluid dynamics.
    Mihajlo Idvorski Pupin (born 1858): Serbian-American physicist, chemist, and inventor. He won the Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography in 1924. His The New Reformation: From Physical to Spiritual Realities concerns religion and spirituality. He also wrote the forward to Science and Religion: A Symposium.
    Pavel Florensky (born 1882): Russian orthodox priest who wrote a book on Dielectrics and wrote of imaginary numbers having a relationship to the Kingdom of God.
    John Ambrose Fleming (born 1849): In science he is noted for the Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes. He also won the Hughes Medal. In religious activities he was President of the Victoria Institute, involved in the Creation Science Movement.
    Max Planck (born 1858): He won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics and is considered the founder of Quantum mechanics. He was raised an observant Lutheran and was an elder in his church from 1920 to his death. In 1937 he delivered the lecture, "Religion and Natural Science," stating that both religion and science require a belief in God.
    E.T. Whittaker (born 1873): Converted to Catholicism in 1930 and member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. His 1946 Donnellan Lecture was entitled on Space and Spirit: Theories of the Universe and the Arguments of the Existence of God. He also received the Copley Medal and had written on Mathematical physics.
    Aldert van der Ziel (born 1910): He researched Flicker noise and had the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers named an award after him. He was also a conservative Lutheran who wrote The Natural Sciences and the Christian Message.
    Sir Robert Boyd (born 1922): A pioneer in British space science who was Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society. He lectured on faith being a founder of the "Research Scientists' Christian Fellowship" and an important member of its predecessor Christians in Science. He was connected to the University College London.
    Richard Smalley (born 1943): A Nobel Laureate in Chemistry known for buckyballs. In his last years he renewed an interest in Christianity and supported Intelligent design. He taught at Rice University.
    C.F. von Weizsacker (born 1912): German nuclear physicist who is the co-discoverer of the Bethe-Weizsacker formula. His The Relevance of Science: Creation and Cosmogony, concerned Christian and moral impacts of science. 
    Stanley Jaki (born 1924): Benedictine priest and Distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, who won a Templeton Prize and advocates the idea modern science could only have arisen in a Christian society.
    Allen Sandage (born 1926): An astronomer who did not really study Christianity until after age forty. He wrote the article A Scientist Reflects on Religious Belief and made discoveries concerning the Cigar Galaxy.
    John T. Houghton (born 1931): He is the co-chair of the Intergovenmental Panel on Climate Change and won a gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society. He's also former Vice President of Christians in Science.
    R.J. Berry (born 1934): He is a former president of both the Linnean Society of London and the Christians in Science group. He also wrote God and the Biologist: Personal Exploration of Science and Faith (1996). He also taught at University College London for over 30 years.
    Henry F. Schaefer, III (born 1944): He wrote Science and Christianity: Conflict or Coherence? and is a signatory of A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism. He was awarded the American Chemical Society Award in Pure Chemistry in 1979.
    Francis Collins (born 1950): He is the current director of the National Institutes of Health and former director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute. He has also written on religious matters in articles and in Faith and the Human Genome he states the importance to him of "the literal and historical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the cornerstone of what I believe." He wrote the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.
    Reply
    Isaac Newton (born 1643): He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and mathematicians in history. Newton's study of the Bible and of the early Church Fathers were among his greatest passions.
    Carolus Linnaeus (born 1707): He is known as the "father of modern taxonomy" and also made contributions to ecology. Natural theology and the Bible were important to his Systema Naturae and Systema Vegetabilium.
    Leonhard Euler (born 1707): A significant mathematician and physicist. In mathematics and physics, there is a large number of topics named in his honor, many of which include their own unique function, equation, formula, identity, number (single or sentence), or other mathematical entity. Euler's work touched upon so many fields that he is often the earliest written reference on a given matter. He wrote Defense of the Divine Revelation against the Objections of Freethinkers and is also commemorated by the Lutheran Church on their Calendar of Saints on May 24th.
    Samuel Vince (born 1749): Cambridge astronomer and clergyman. He wrote Observations on the Theory of the Motion and Resistance of Fluids and The Credibility of Christianity vindicated. He won the Copley Medal in 1780.
    Olinthus Gregory (born 1774): He wrote Lessons Astronomical and Philosophical in 1793, and became mathematical master at the Royal Military Academy. An abridgment of his 1815 Letters on the Evidences of Christianity was done by the Religious Tract Society.
    Adam Sedgwick (born 1785): Anglican priest and geologist whose, A Discourse on the Studies of the University discusses the relationship of God and man. In science he won the Copley Medal and Wollaston Medal.
    Michael Faraday (born 1791): A Glasite church elder, he discussed the relationship of science to religion in a lecture opposing Spiritualism.
    Philip Henry Gosse (born 1810): Marine biologist who wrote Aquarium (1854), and A Manual of Marine Zoology (1855-56). He is more famous, or infamous, as a Christian Fundamentalist who coined the idea of Omphalos (theology).
    George Stokes (born 1819): A minister's son, he wrote a book on Natural Theology. He was also one of the Presidents of the Royal Society and made contributions to Fluid dynamics.
    Mihajlo Idvorski Pupin (born 1858): Serbian-American physicist, chemist, and inventor. He won the Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography in 1924. His The New Reformation: From Physical to Spiritual Realities concerns religion and spirituality. He also wrote the forward to Science and Religion: A Symposium.
    Pavel Florensky (born 1882): Russian orthodox priest who wrote a book on Dielectrics and wrote of imaginary numbers having a relationship to the Kingdom of God.
    John Ambrose Fleming (born 1849): In science he is noted for the Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes. He also won the Hughes Medal. In religious activities he was President of the Victoria Institute, involved in the Creation Science Movement.
    Max Planck (born 1858): He won the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics and is considered the founder of Quantum mechanics. He was raised an observant Lutheran and was an elder in his church from 1920 to his death. In 1937 he delivered the lecture, "Religion and Natural Science," stating that both religion and science require a belief in God.
    E.T. Whittaker (born 1873): Converted to Catholicism in 1930 and member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. His 1946 Donnellan Lecture was entitled on Space and Spirit: Theories of the Universe and the Arguments of the Existence of God. He also received the Copley Medal and had written on Mathematical physics.
    Aldert van der Ziel (born 1910): He researched Flicker noise and had the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers named an award after him. He was also a conservative Lutheran who wrote The Natural Sciences and the Christian Message.
    Sir Robert Boyd (born 1922): A pioneer in British space science who was Vice President of the Royal Astronomical Society. He lectured on faith being a founder of the "Research Scientists' Christian Fellowship" and an important member of its predecessor Christians in Science. He was connected to the University College London.
    Richard Smalley (born 1943): A Nobel Laureate in Chemistry known for buckyballs. In his last years he renewed an interest in Christianity and supported Intelligent design. He taught at Rice University.
    C.F. von Weizsacker (born 1912): German nuclear physicist who is the co-discoverer of the Bethe-Weizsacker formula. His The Relevance of Science: Creation and Cosmogony, concerned Christian and moral impacts of science. 
    Stanley Jaki (born 1924): Benedictine priest and Distinguished Professor of Physics at Seton Hall University, who won a Templeton Prize and advocates the idea modern science could only have arisen in a Christian society.
    Allen Sandage (born 1926): An astronomer who did not really study Christianity until after age forty. He wrote the article A Scientist Reflects on Religious Belief and made discoveries concerning the Cigar Galaxy.
    John T. Houghton (born 1931): He is the co-chair of the Intergovenmental Panel on Climate Change and won a gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society. He's also former Vice President of Christians in Science.
    R.J. Berry (born 1934): He is a former president of both the Linnean Society of London and the Christians in Science group. He also wrote God and the Biologist: Personal Exploration of Science and Faith (1996). He also taught at University College London for over 30 years.
    Henry F. Schaefer, III (born 1944): He wrote Science and Christianity: Conflict or Coherence? and is a signatory of A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism. He was awarded the American Chemical Society Award in Pure Chemistry in 1979.
    Francis Collins (born 1950): He is the current director of the National Institutes of Health and former director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute. He has also written on religious matters in articles and in Faith and the Human Genome he states the importance to him of "the literal and historical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, which is the cornerstone of what I believe." He wrote the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief.
     
     
    EX4life
    EX4life
    All-Star
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2009
    Posts: 13235
    Posted: Oct. 22, 2011 - 5:40 PM ET #150

    ... What I am going to do now is list some present-day folks, who have set out to prove the existence of God, as well as provide the definitions of types of arguments that try to prove God's existence, followed by the people that have made said argument:

    Dennis Marcellino (born 1948): He is the author of seven books, including "THE PROOF that God exists and the Bible is true" (2009), and "Why Are We Here?" (2007). He is an American musician, speaker and author of psychology, philosophy, theology and political books. He currently tours as a speaker, musician, and does media appearances. He wrote and produced the documentary "Conclusive Proof of God."

    Hugh Ross: In 1994, Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross gave a Seminal Presentation entitled, "Origin of the Universe, New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God."

    Josh Peete: Joshua Peete was formally trained in philosophy at California State University, Sacramento. He currently serves as a credentialed teacher in California, and author of "Proving God Exists Through The Examination of Our Universe."

    Thomas Aquinas: Not a present-day scientist or theologian, but contributed directly to the argument of God's existence. He was an immensely influential philosopher and theologian in the tradition of scholasticism. He was the foremost classical proponent of natural theology. He's had much influence on Western thought, and a lot of modern philosophy was conceived as a reaction to his ideas, particularly in the areas of ethics, natural law, metaphysics, and political theory. Thomas believed that the existence of God is neither obvious nor improvable. In the Summa Theologica, he considered in great detail five reasons for the existence of God.

    Christian Apologetics: Is a field of Christian theology that presents a rational basis for the Christian faith, to defend the faith against objections and misrepresentation, and to expose error within other religions and worldviews. Apologists base their defense of Christianity on historical and archaeological evidence, theological and philosophical arguments and scientific investigation. It continues today with the efforts of many authors and speakers from various Christian traditions, such as James White, John F. MacArthur, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis, Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, J.P. Moreland, Kirk Cameron, and many others.
    Reply
    ... What I am going to do now is list some present-day folks, who have set out to prove the existence of God, as well as provide the definitions of types of arguments that try to prove God's existence, followed by the people that have made said argument:

    Dennis Marcellino (born 1948): He is the author of seven books, including "THE PROOF that God exists and the Bible is true" (2009), and "Why Are We Here?" (2007). He is an American musician, speaker and author of psychology, philosophy, theology and political books. He currently tours as a speaker, musician, and does media appearances. He wrote and produced the documentary "Conclusive Proof of God."

    Hugh Ross: In 1994, Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross gave a Seminal Presentation entitled, "Origin of the Universe, New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God."

    Josh Peete: Joshua Peete was formally trained in philosophy at California State University, Sacramento. He currently serves as a credentialed teacher in California, and author of "Proving God Exists Through The Examination of Our Universe."

    Thomas Aquinas: Not a present-day scientist or theologian, but contributed directly to the argument of God's existence. He was an immensely influential philosopher and theologian in the tradition of scholasticism. He was the foremost classical proponent of natural theology. He's had much influence on Western thought, and a lot of modern philosophy was conceived as a reaction to his ideas, particularly in the areas of ethics, natural law, metaphysics, and political theory. Thomas believed that the existence of God is neither obvious nor improvable. In the Summa Theologica, he considered in great detail five reasons for the existence of God.

    Christian Apologetics: Is a field of Christian theology that presents a rational basis for the Christian faith, to defend the faith against objections and misrepresentation, and to expose error within other religions and worldviews. Apologists base their defense of Christianity on historical and archaeological evidence, theological and philosophical arguments and scientific investigation. It continues today with the efforts of many authors and speakers from various Christian traditions, such as James White, John F. MacArthur, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, C.S. Lewis, Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, J.P. Moreland, Kirk Cameron, and many others.
    All Forums | General Discussion
    «First Previous 678 ... 91011 Next Last»

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • 🤢🥴💩_ Fubah's risky baseball bets _🥶😲🥵 461,594
    • Friday 10/16/2026 612
    • Serious Streak Survivor Strategies 1,918,432
    • 🏈🏈🏈 Fubah2's risky CFB bets 275,582
    • PART DEUX 188
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 61,476
    • NCAA FOOTBALL. 151 45,067
    • Trump's legacy? 34,506
    • NCAA WEEK 7 *** Railroad to Paradise *** 9,397
    • Trump lies so much. 26,285

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Privacy Choices Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Covers Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 Genius Sports. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.