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    All Forums | General Discussion

    anyone watch " The Bible " on the history channel?

    «First Previous 123 ... 567 Next Last»
    14daroad
    TheGoldenGoose
    Killer_B
    Ktrain
    slikstiks99
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    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 8:20 AM ET #101

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:




    I guess you are reading a different Bible than everybody else.



    Why then, don't you point me to any quote from Jesus, Moses, or any of the Apostles guaranteeing your entrance into Heaven for repenting or confessing.

    Go ahead.

    I can't wait to read all about it.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:




    I guess you are reading a different Bible than everybody else.



    Why then, don't you point me to any quote from Jesus, Moses, or any of the Apostles guaranteeing your entrance into Heaven for repenting or confessing.

    Go ahead.

    I can't wait to read all about it.
     
    TheGoldenGoose
    TheGoldenGoose
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 8:23 AM ET #102



    Oh, that's right, you're Jewish.  No Heaven for you.
    ~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
    Reply


    Oh, that's right, you're Jewish.  No Heaven for you.
     
    Killer_B
    Killer_B
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 10:42 AM ET #103

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    In terms of who is going to go where, ie, Sandusky going to hell...No one knows. People throwing things at Sandusky, just remember.......

    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Secondly....

    James 2:10

    "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

    I know one thing,. God is perfect in his love and perfect in his justice.

    Now lets turn the tables for a second. Under Atheism, what Sandusky has done is not objectively wrong, it is merely an opinion that he has done wrong but not absolutely wrong. This is no different to an opinion where one person finds Kim Kardashian more attractive than Kate Upton. That's all it is under atheism. Just one opinion over another. They aren't right or wrong, just like if I find Kate Upton more attractive than Kim Kardashian. I aint wrong, just a preference.

    Also, under atheism, Sandusky is just a bag of chemicals like all of us. It just so happens to be that his chemicals in his body react in a different way to others due to external stimuli. Why is he to blame? It is just the cards evolution have dealt him. Not his fault, and to blame him for what he did as being wrong is contradictory to morality under atheism, which is subjective.

    Its unfortunate that I have to use Sandusky as an example, but this example shows the double standards atheists have , the ones who have I had dialogue with. This proves their arguments have so many holes in it...


    A solid right hand there Rostos! I wondered where you've been?

    I'll assume you believe he can be forgiven if he admits what he did and repents a million percent. Still, God will handle it His way and I don't think it'll go without punishment, Jerrry will never say "I got away with one" will he?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    In terms of who is going to go where, ie, Sandusky going to hell...No one knows. People throwing things at Sandusky, just remember.......

    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Secondly....

    James 2:10

    "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

    I know one thing,. God is perfect in his love and perfect in his justice.

    Now lets turn the tables for a second. Under Atheism, what Sandusky has done is not objectively wrong, it is merely an opinion that he has done wrong but not absolutely wrong. This is no different to an opinion where one person finds Kim Kardashian more attractive than Kate Upton. That's all it is under atheism. Just one opinion over another. They aren't right or wrong, just like if I find Kate Upton more attractive than Kim Kardashian. I aint wrong, just a preference.

    Also, under atheism, Sandusky is just a bag of chemicals like all of us. It just so happens to be that his chemicals in his body react in a different way to others due to external stimuli. Why is he to blame? It is just the cards evolution have dealt him. Not his fault, and to blame him for what he did as being wrong is contradictory to morality under atheism, which is subjective.

    Its unfortunate that I have to use Sandusky as an example, but this example shows the double standards atheists have , the ones who have I had dialogue with. This proves their arguments have so many holes in it...


    A solid right hand there Rostos! I wondered where you've been?

    I'll assume you believe he can be forgiven if he admits what he did and repents a million percent. Still, God will handle it His way and I don't think it'll go without punishment, Jerrry will never say "I got away with one" will he?
     
    14daroad
    14daroad
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 12:05 PM ET #104

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:



    Oh, that's right, you're Jewish.  No Heaven for you.

    Note the response when asked to back up your contention.

    Want to guess why that is?
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:



    Oh, that's right, you're Jewish.  No Heaven for you.

    Note the response when asked to back up your contention.

    Want to guess why that is?
     
    Ktrain
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 2:23 PM ET #105

    "Naturally, you guys would take that bait that I'm not allowed to judge a shitbag that clearly wants me to think he's a shitbag. This judging isn't even close to judging what people do that harm others. The kid insists on looking like a pirate, go for it. I get to call him on it though. That example was given for where society is going today, would love to see his parents (if there are any). I'm am allowed to have an opinion on someone that enslaves themself. 

    I love you guys, how about the 54M abortions. Nothing to say about that, but I get the big time-out because a kid that wants to look like a shitbag, accomplishes it and I call him on it.

    No timeouts left."

    And now using Rostos' quote.


    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Maybe that kid goes to church twice a week, mentors at risk kids, and volunteers at a homeless shelter in the little free time that he has after working 50 hours a week. 

    But hey, that doesn't matter because you have already judged him anyway. Oh wait, only God can judge people.

    Now I am confused. So it's ok for you to judge people because.....well I am not sure why really.....maybe you think you're teaching lil ole athiests a lesson?

    I don't know, please feel free to explain. 

    Please feel free to explain how he enslaves himself as well. 

    As far as abortion goes, why isn't that necessarily a good thing? Should more kids grow up in broken homes where they aren't wanted? Because kids in that situation tend to do so well in life don't they?

    What are their odds of growing up to be successful and not ending up in jail? Do you think this would increase or decrease crime rates across the country? Quality of life? Poverty rates? etc. 




    Reply
    "Naturally, you guys would take that bait that I'm not allowed to judge a shitbag that clearly wants me to think he's a shitbag. This judging isn't even close to judging what people do that harm others. The kid insists on looking like a pirate, go for it. I get to call him on it though. That example was given for where society is going today, would love to see his parents (if there are any). I'm am allowed to have an opinion on someone that enslaves themself. 

    I love you guys, how about the 54M abortions. Nothing to say about that, but I get the big time-out because a kid that wants to look like a shitbag, accomplishes it and I call him on it.

    No timeouts left."

    And now using Rostos' quote.


    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Maybe that kid goes to church twice a week, mentors at risk kids, and volunteers at a homeless shelter in the little free time that he has after working 50 hours a week. 

    But hey, that doesn't matter because you have already judged him anyway. Oh wait, only God can judge people.

    Now I am confused. So it's ok for you to judge people because.....well I am not sure why really.....maybe you think you're teaching lil ole athiests a lesson?

    I don't know, please feel free to explain. 

    Please feel free to explain how he enslaves himself as well. 

    As far as abortion goes, why isn't that necessarily a good thing? Should more kids grow up in broken homes where they aren't wanted? Because kids in that situation tend to do so well in life don't they?

    What are their odds of growing up to be successful and not ending up in jail? Do you think this would increase or decrease crime rates across the country? Quality of life? Poverty rates? etc. 




     
    Ktrain
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 2:32 PM ET #106

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


    There is no real clear indication either way.

    Anyone suggesting that you are guaranteed to go to Heaven under any circumstance is engaging in a misrepresentation. It is never said or suggested that you will get into Heaven merely by repenting or confessing.


    Ok, so what are the qualifications for getting into heaven? 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:


    There is no real clear indication either way.

    Anyone suggesting that you are guaranteed to go to Heaven under any circumstance is engaging in a misrepresentation. It is never said or suggested that you will get into Heaven merely by repenting or confessing.


    Ok, so what are the qualifications for getting into heaven? 
     
    Ktrain
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 2:46 PM ET #107

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    In terms of who is going to go where, ie, Sandusky going to hell...No one knows. People throwing things at Sandusky, just remember.......

    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Secondly....

    James 2:10

    "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

    I know one thing,. God is perfect in his love and perfect in his justice.

    Now lets turn the tables for a second. Under Atheism, what Sandusky has done is not objectively wrong, it is merely an opinion that he has done wrong but not absolutely wrong. This is no different to an opinion where one person finds Kim Kardashian more attractive than Kate Upton. That's all it is under atheism. Just one opinion over another. They aren't right or wrong, just like if I find Kate Upton more attractive than Kim Kardashian. I aint wrong, just a preference.

    Also, under atheism, Sandusky is just a bag of chemicals like all of us. It just so happens to be that his chemicals in his body react in a different way to others due to external stimuli. Why is he to blame? It is just the cards evolution have dealt him. Not his fault, and to blame him for what he did as being wrong is contradictory to morality under atheism, which is subjective.

    Its unfortunate that I have to use Sandusky as an example, but this example shows the double standards atheists have , the ones who have I had dialogue with. This proves their arguments have so many holes in it...


    What Sandusky did is wrong under under any guise. I have yet to hear any credible athiest (i.e. someone that isn't a nut job) that excuses pedophilia as a crime. I know there are studies that are trying to pin it on a genetic mutation in DNA but last I checked they aren't excusing it as a crime. 

    What I find really humorous is that this does nothing to explain why there is sex abuse in the church. If it's not "objectively wrong" under athiesm then what does that make it when God's anointed ones are doing it? 

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    In terms of who is going to go where, ie, Sandusky going to hell...No one knows. People throwing things at Sandusky, just remember.......

    James 4:12

    "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbour?"

    Secondly....

    James 2:10

    "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

    I know one thing,. God is perfect in his love and perfect in his justice.

    Now lets turn the tables for a second. Under Atheism, what Sandusky has done is not objectively wrong, it is merely an opinion that he has done wrong but not absolutely wrong. This is no different to an opinion where one person finds Kim Kardashian more attractive than Kate Upton. That's all it is under atheism. Just one opinion over another. They aren't right or wrong, just like if I find Kate Upton more attractive than Kim Kardashian. I aint wrong, just a preference.

    Also, under atheism, Sandusky is just a bag of chemicals like all of us. It just so happens to be that his chemicals in his body react in a different way to others due to external stimuli. Why is he to blame? It is just the cards evolution have dealt him. Not his fault, and to blame him for what he did as being wrong is contradictory to morality under atheism, which is subjective.

    Its unfortunate that I have to use Sandusky as an example, but this example shows the double standards atheists have , the ones who have I had dialogue with. This proves their arguments have so many holes in it...


    What Sandusky did is wrong under under any guise. I have yet to hear any credible athiest (i.e. someone that isn't a nut job) that excuses pedophilia as a crime. I know there are studies that are trying to pin it on a genetic mutation in DNA but last I checked they aren't excusing it as a crime. 

    What I find really humorous is that this does nothing to explain why there is sex abuse in the church. If it's not "objectively wrong" under athiesm then what does that make it when God's anointed ones are doing it? 

     
    slikstiks99
    slikstiks99
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 3:22 PM ET #108

    Is Jesus a Marvel or DC Universe character? I'm confused.
    Reply
    Is Jesus a Marvel or DC Universe character? I'm confused.
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 6:35 PM ET #109

    Ktrain....Im regards to your first response.....I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

    In regards to Sandusky, under atheism, what he did was only subjectively wrong, not objectively.

    I could think what he did was right, you might think he is wrong...Neither of us are right , neither of us are wrong...That's atheism.

    Under Theism, I can say, independent of what he think, what he did was wrong...

    Reply

    Ktrain....Im regards to your first response.....I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

    In regards to Sandusky, under atheism, what he did was only subjectively wrong, not objectively.

    I could think what he did was right, you might think he is wrong...Neither of us are right , neither of us are wrong...That's atheism.

    Under Theism, I can say, independent of what he think, what he did was wrong...

     
    SYSTEM
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 6:44 PM ET #110

    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:




    Why then, don't you point me to any quote from Jesus, Moses, or any of the Apostles guaranteeing your entrance into Heaven for repenting or confessing.

    Go ahead.

    I can't wait to read all about it.

    Romans 10:9  "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:




    Why then, don't you point me to any quote from Jesus, Moses, or any of the Apostles guaranteeing your entrance into Heaven for repenting or confessing.

    Go ahead.

    I can't wait to read all about it.

    Romans 10:9  "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

     
    Ktrain
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 7:21 PM ET #111

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain....Im regards to your first response.....I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

    In regards to Sandusky, under atheism, what he did was only subjectively wrong, not objectively.

    I could think what he did was right, you might think he is wrong...Neither of us are right , neither of us are wrong...That's atheism.

    Under Theism, I can say, independent of what he think, what he did was wrong...


    No it's objectively wrong under athiesm. That's why I said there isn't one credible athiest that would defend those actions. The law says it's wrong, my moral beliefs tell me it's wrong. I don't need a religion to tell me that it's wrong. 

    What about the parents of the kid that died when they were trying to pray away his pain and ended up causing his death by avoiding medical attention (faith healing article in Clubdirts religious thread). That's child neglect under the law but under religion/theism it's ok. Is that objectively wrong or subjectively wrong in your opinion? 

    How does that make religion/theism better than athiesm? 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain....Im regards to your first response.....I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

    In regards to Sandusky, under atheism, what he did was only subjectively wrong, not objectively.

    I could think what he did was right, you might think he is wrong...Neither of us are right , neither of us are wrong...That's atheism.

    Under Theism, I can say, independent of what he think, what he did was wrong...


    No it's objectively wrong under athiesm. That's why I said there isn't one credible athiest that would defend those actions. The law says it's wrong, my moral beliefs tell me it's wrong. I don't need a religion to tell me that it's wrong. 

    What about the parents of the kid that died when they were trying to pray away his pain and ended up causing his death by avoiding medical attention (faith healing article in Clubdirts religious thread). That's child neglect under the law but under religion/theism it's ok. Is that objectively wrong or subjectively wrong in your opinion? 

    How does that make religion/theism better than athiesm? 
     
    TheGoldenGoose
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 7:53 PM ET #112

    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    Romans 10:9  "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved."





    He doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell.

    He doesn't believe in facts either so it's impossible to even have a discussion with this guy.




    ~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


    Romans 10:9  "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved."





    He doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell.

    He doesn't believe in facts either so it's impossible to even have a discussion with this guy.




     
    dl36
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 8:55 PM ET #113

    Quote Originally Posted by dl36:


    APK has a pretty famous thread where he calls a child being the victim of pedophilia as "lucky"...

    and 5FF came out and admitted that his being molested as a child results in his SAF behavior and pedophile like attraction....

    So sure... not like the SAF that defended sandusky...  that SAF was specifically pedo...

    But it made me think of slim-woop-bowslit-14daroad-frontrowcenter-bob as they encompass pedo along with racist, ignorant, uneducated etc...



    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by dl36:


    APK has a pretty famous thread where he calls a child being the victim of pedophilia as "lucky"...

    and 5FF came out and admitted that his being molested as a child results in his SAF behavior and pedophile like attraction....

    So sure... not like the SAF that defended sandusky...  that SAF was specifically pedo...

    But it made me think of slim-woop-bowslit-14daroad-frontrowcenter-bob as they encompass pedo along with racist, ignorant, uneducated etc...



     
    TheGoldenGoose
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 8:58 PM ET #114


    Covers Knows
    ~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
    Reply

    Covers Knows
     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 9:16 PM ET #115

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:





    He doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell.

    He doesn't believe in facts either so it's impossible to even have a discussion with this guy.


    if you're talking about me, no I don't believe in heaven or hell...tell me why I should...

    what "facts" are you talking about?






    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:





    He doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell.

    He doesn't believe in facts either so it's impossible to even have a discussion with this guy.


    if you're talking about me, no I don't believe in heaven or hell...tell me why I should...

    what "facts" are you talking about?






     
    TheGoldenGoose
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 9:32 PM ET #116



    Not you, was talking about 14d. 

    You gave him the quote he asked for and now he'll deny the fact.

    And for the record I'm officially Agnostic.
    ~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
    Reply


    Not you, was talking about 14d. 

    You gave him the quote he asked for and now he'll deny the fact.

    And for the record I'm officially Agnostic.
     
    SYSTEM
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    Posted: Apr. 14, 2013 - 9:40 PM ET #117

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:



    Not you, was talking about 14d. 

    You gave him the quote he asked for and now he'll deny the fact.

    And for the record I'm officially Agnostic.

    oh, thats what I thought, but wasn't sure...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:



    Not you, was talking about 14d. 

    You gave him the quote he asked for and now he'll deny the fact.

    And for the record I'm officially Agnostic.

    oh, thats what I thought, but wasn't sure...
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2013 - 12:13 AM ET #118

    Ktrain......You cannot have objective morality under atheism. Where is morality grounded under atheism? Under Atheism, morality is subjective, it is merely one persons opinion over another in terms of what is right and wrong.

    Law is different. The gassing of person was the law in Nazi Germany...Because its the law, does it mean its right?

    The fact that you say it is what you believe is simply an illusion. You believing what Sandusky did was wrong is no different at all to you finding Kate Upton more attractive over Kim Kardashian the other way around. It really is no different.

    In regards to the little boy, 2 fronts.

    Under atheism, again, it is ONLY your opinion that what the parents did is wrong, it is not objectively wrong.

    In regards under Theism, I wasn't there , so I don't know, I will hold judgement.

    Religion make better than Atheism? What do you mean by that? How can you even ask a question.

    Ktrain, it appears that you don't even realise the implication of your atheism and what it means.

    Reply

    Ktrain......You cannot have objective morality under atheism. Where is morality grounded under atheism? Under Atheism, morality is subjective, it is merely one persons opinion over another in terms of what is right and wrong.

    Law is different. The gassing of person was the law in Nazi Germany...Because its the law, does it mean its right?

    The fact that you say it is what you believe is simply an illusion. You believing what Sandusky did was wrong is no different at all to you finding Kate Upton more attractive over Kim Kardashian the other way around. It really is no different.

    In regards to the little boy, 2 fronts.

    Under atheism, again, it is ONLY your opinion that what the parents did is wrong, it is not objectively wrong.

    In regards under Theism, I wasn't there , so I don't know, I will hold judgement.

    Religion make better than Atheism? What do you mean by that? How can you even ask a question.

    Ktrain, it appears that you don't even realise the implication of your atheism and what it means.

     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2013 - 12:31 AM ET #119

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain......You cannot have objective morality under atheism. Where is morality grounded under atheism? Under Atheism, morality is subjective, it is merely one persons opinion over another in terms of what is right and wrong.

    Law is different. The gassing of person was the law in Nazi Germany...Because its the law, does it mean its right?

    The fact that you say it is what you believe is simply an illusion. You believing what Sandusky did was wrong is no different at all to you finding Kate Upton more attractive over Kim Kardashian the other way around. It really is no different.

    In regards to the little boy, 2 fronts.

    Under atheism, again, it is ONLY your opinion that what the parents did is wrong, it is not objectively wrong.

    In regards under Theism, I wasn't there , so I don't know, I will hold judgement.

    Religion make better than Atheism? What do you mean by that? How can you even ask a question.

    Ktrain, it appears that you don't even realise the implication of your atheism and what it means.


    If morality is subjective under athiesm than it is under thiesm as well. Is it right that parents are willing to let their kids die because they couldn't pray away some disease or bodily incident that modern medicine can easily fix? Where is the morality in that? 

    Under athiesm there is a moral code in which most people live by. So if you want to call that subjective then so be it, however theism would then be subjective also. There isn't an absolute under theism as well because it's all in someone's interpretation of how they read the bible/koran/any other religious text. 

    I know for a fact that I can go on youtube, search different pastors/priests reading the same exact text out of the same exact book and they will give me different interpretations of what that text means. 

    Why are there Imam's who insist on killing infidels and other Imam's who do not? Why are there different preachers that take the bible at it's literal word and others that don't and interpret it more as a fable with a meaning? 

    If you want to call athiesm's morality subjective, then you have to call religion's morality subjective as well. Your choice. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain......You cannot have objective morality under atheism. Where is morality grounded under atheism? Under Atheism, morality is subjective, it is merely one persons opinion over another in terms of what is right and wrong.

    Law is different. The gassing of person was the law in Nazi Germany...Because its the law, does it mean its right?

    The fact that you say it is what you believe is simply an illusion. You believing what Sandusky did was wrong is no different at all to you finding Kate Upton more attractive over Kim Kardashian the other way around. It really is no different.

    In regards to the little boy, 2 fronts.

    Under atheism, again, it is ONLY your opinion that what the parents did is wrong, it is not objectively wrong.

    In regards under Theism, I wasn't there , so I don't know, I will hold judgement.

    Religion make better than Atheism? What do you mean by that? How can you even ask a question.

    Ktrain, it appears that you don't even realise the implication of your atheism and what it means.


    If morality is subjective under athiesm than it is under thiesm as well. Is it right that parents are willing to let their kids die because they couldn't pray away some disease or bodily incident that modern medicine can easily fix? Where is the morality in that? 

    Under athiesm there is a moral code in which most people live by. So if you want to call that subjective then so be it, however theism would then be subjective also. There isn't an absolute under theism as well because it's all in someone's interpretation of how they read the bible/koran/any other religious text. 

    I know for a fact that I can go on youtube, search different pastors/priests reading the same exact text out of the same exact book and they will give me different interpretations of what that text means. 

    Why are there Imam's who insist on killing infidels and other Imam's who do not? Why are there different preachers that take the bible at it's literal word and others that don't and interpret it more as a fable with a meaning? 

    If you want to call athiesm's morality subjective, then you have to call religion's morality subjective as well. Your choice. 
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2013 - 3:17 AM ET #120

    Ktrain, you are completely mixed up. Morality cannot be objective under atheism or subject under Theism.

    You say that their is a moral code which most people live by, but that is simply adhering to a code that is popular, doesn't mean it is right or wrong.

    What those parents did wasn't popular, but it wasn't wrong under atheism. See the difference?

    Reply

    Ktrain, you are completely mixed up. Morality cannot be objective under atheism or subject under Theism.

    You say that their is a moral code which most people live by, but that is simply adhering to a code that is popular, doesn't mean it is right or wrong.

    What those parents did wasn't popular, but it wasn't wrong under atheism. See the difference?

     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2013 - 9:50 AM ET #121

    Yes, what those parents did is wrong under atheism because no atheist would try and pray away anything. They wouldn't try and think away anything. They would go seek medical attention.

    Feel free how it is moral to let your child die due to your religious convictions when seeking medical attention would easily save their life. Please explain the morality in that. Did they even ask the kid what he wanted?

    Reply
    Yes, what those parents did is wrong under atheism because no atheist would try and pray away anything. They wouldn't try and think away anything. They would go seek medical attention.

    Feel free how it is moral to let your child die due to your religious convictions when seeking medical attention would easily save their life. Please explain the morality in that. Did they even ask the kid what he wanted?

     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Apr. 15, 2013 - 11:56 PM ET #122

    Ktrain, what those parents did is not objectively wrong under atheism. It is only an opinion that it is wrong, just an wrong. It is not objectively wrong.

    Just like the bombing in Boston today, it is only an opinion if you hold it to be wrong under atheism.

    Furthermore, the bible doesn't tell us not to seek medical treatment if someone is sick.

    Reply

    Ktrain, what those parents did is not objectively wrong under atheism. It is only an opinion that it is wrong, just an wrong. It is not objectively wrong.

    Just like the bombing in Boston today, it is only an opinion if you hold it to be wrong under atheism.

    Furthermore, the bible doesn't tell us not to seek medical treatment if someone is sick.

     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 16, 2013 - 12:13 AM ET #123

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain, what those parents did is not objectively wrong under atheism. It is only an opinion that it is wrong, just an wrong. It is not objectively wrong.

    Just like the bombing in Boston today, it is only an opinion if you hold it to be wrong under atheism.

    Furthermore, the bible doesn't tell us not to seek medical treatment if someone is sick.


    Would you say the parents decision was immoral? Somewhere along the line, they interpreted that the bible instructed them not to seek medical attention and that they could pray away illness. Seems pretty subjective and pretty immoral. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    Ktrain, what those parents did is not objectively wrong under atheism. It is only an opinion that it is wrong, just an wrong. It is not objectively wrong.

    Just like the bombing in Boston today, it is only an opinion if you hold it to be wrong under atheism.

    Furthermore, the bible doesn't tell us not to seek medical treatment if someone is sick.


    Would you say the parents decision was immoral? Somewhere along the line, they interpreted that the bible instructed them not to seek medical attention and that they could pray away illness. Seems pretty subjective and pretty immoral. 
     
    Rostos
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    Posted: Apr. 16, 2013 - 2:56 AM ET #124

    I don't know how they could get such an interpretation. There were physicians around the time of Jesus. Jesus didn't tell them to get lost because they shouldn't be treating people.

    I don't know how they got that interpretation. I have plenty and plenty of Christian friends, none of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

    The other day in church, a church member collapsed, the priest asked if their was a doctor in the mass, lucky there was one and he attended to it.

    The priest didn't say, "ok, lets just leave this collapsed woman here and lets pray for her, forget doctors etc etc".

    Reply

    I don't know how they could get such an interpretation. There were physicians around the time of Jesus. Jesus didn't tell them to get lost because they shouldn't be treating people.

    I don't know how they got that interpretation. I have plenty and plenty of Christian friends, none of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

    The other day in church, a church member collapsed, the priest asked if their was a doctor in the mass, lucky there was one and he attended to it.

    The priest didn't say, "ok, lets just leave this collapsed woman here and lets pray for her, forget doctors etc etc".

     
     
    Ktrain
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    Posted: Apr. 16, 2013 - 12:46 PM ET #125

    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I don't know how they could get such an interpretation. There were physicians around the time of Jesus. Jesus didn't tell them to get lost because they shouldn't be treating people.

    I don't know how they got that interpretation. I have plenty and plenty of Christian friends, none of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

    The other day in church, a church member collapsed, the priest asked if their was a doctor in the mass, lucky there was one and he attended to it.

    The priest didn't say, "ok, lets just leave this collapsed woman here and lets pray for her, forget doctors etc etc".


    That's great that you think that. However, different people take different interpretations of scripture. If you give a scripture to 10 different people you are bound to get at least one different interpretation. Now multiply that over a million Christians and I think you can understand why people might have different interpretations of the same book. Now add that people begin teaching their interpretations to others and you might begin to understand why something like this might happen? 

    The same thing goes for Islam and other religions as well. This is why I think religion is as detrimental as it is beneficial. For every peace loving Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc there will be someone that wants to do harm to those that don't share the same beliefs. Obviously it's not a one to one ratio but it is enough that it causes significant harm in the world. 

    Also, doctors in Jesus' days definitely didn't have the resources or technology that doctors do today. I think it might be fair to say that they did rely on prayer and therefore whenever the body's natural defenses ward off sickness, prayer gets the credit. Probably when it shouldn't as well since the body took care of it. However, when the body can't defend itself against sickness people just rely on prayer at that point, and that's not going to work either. 
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Rostos:

    I don't know how they could get such an interpretation. There were physicians around the time of Jesus. Jesus didn't tell them to get lost because they shouldn't be treating people.

    I don't know how they got that interpretation. I have plenty and plenty of Christian friends, none of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

    The other day in church, a church member collapsed, the priest asked if their was a doctor in the mass, lucky there was one and he attended to it.

    The priest didn't say, "ok, lets just leave this collapsed woman here and lets pray for her, forget doctors etc etc".


    That's great that you think that. However, different people take different interpretations of scripture. If you give a scripture to 10 different people you are bound to get at least one different interpretation. Now multiply that over a million Christians and I think you can understand why people might have different interpretations of the same book. Now add that people begin teaching their interpretations to others and you might begin to understand why something like this might happen? 

    The same thing goes for Islam and other religions as well. This is why I think religion is as detrimental as it is beneficial. For every peace loving Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc there will be someone that wants to do harm to those that don't share the same beliefs. Obviously it's not a one to one ratio but it is enough that it causes significant harm in the world. 

    Also, doctors in Jesus' days definitely didn't have the resources or technology that doctors do today. I think it might be fair to say that they did rely on prayer and therefore whenever the body's natural defenses ward off sickness, prayer gets the credit. Probably when it shouldn't as well since the body took care of it. However, when the body can't defend itself against sickness people just rely on prayer at that point, and that's not going to work either. 
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