Is it? If the guy with a $300K/year job is smart he has a nest egg to fall back on and probably can get another high paying job..... The burger guy probably needs his $15/hour A LOT more to survive than Mr.Fancy Job needs his $300K/year
If burger flipper smart---he moving on...you are assuming burger flipper is not a single student---this is also relative---the 300k guy spending like crazy also. U.S. people do--very few have the nest egg they should. Still the point is correct---way more stress on the job of the 300k guy. There are plentiful min wage jobs. Get 2 and double your salary. Lose a 300k job cause you couldn't perform---very tricky to swerve that in next interview.
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:
Is it? If the guy with a $300K/year job is smart he has a nest egg to fall back on and probably can get another high paying job..... The burger guy probably needs his $15/hour A LOT more to survive than Mr.Fancy Job needs his $300K/year
If burger flipper smart---he moving on...you are assuming burger flipper is not a single student---this is also relative---the 300k guy spending like crazy also. U.S. people do--very few have the nest egg they should. Still the point is correct---way more stress on the job of the 300k guy. There are plentiful min wage jobs. Get 2 and double your salary. Lose a 300k job cause you couldn't perform---very tricky to swerve that in next interview.
If burger flipper smart---he moving on...you are assuming burger flipper is not a single student---this is also relative---the 300k guy spending like crazy also. U.S. people do--very few have the nest egg they should. Still the point is correct---way more stress on the job of the 300k guy. There are plentiful min wage jobs. Get 2 and double your salary. Lose a 300k job cause you couldn't perform---very tricky to swerve that in next interview.
I see where you're coming from.... I'm looking at it more as an everyday need to put food on the table and put gas in your car. Hell, the $300K guy could have stress from being in debt the same as the FF worker..... His $500K debt is the same as FF guys $20K. There is shared stress money wise, they are just on different planes.
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
If burger flipper smart---he moving on...you are assuming burger flipper is not a single student---this is also relative---the 300k guy spending like crazy also. U.S. people do--very few have the nest egg they should. Still the point is correct---way more stress on the job of the 300k guy. There are plentiful min wage jobs. Get 2 and double your salary. Lose a 300k job cause you couldn't perform---very tricky to swerve that in next interview.
I see where you're coming from.... I'm looking at it more as an everyday need to put food on the table and put gas in your car. Hell, the $300K guy could have stress from being in debt the same as the FF worker..... His $500K debt is the same as FF guys $20K. There is shared stress money wise, they are just on different planes.
I see where you're coming from.... I'm looking at it more as an everyday need to put food on the table and put gas in your car. Hell, the $300K guy could have stress from being in debt the same as the FF worker..... His $500K debt is the same as FF guys $20K. There is shared stress money wise, they are just on different planes.
Yes--but still the min wage guy had better be using it to pay tuition, etc. Not to make a living. It should not be his career---he better be in a dorm or still at home with parents. Or you are right---he has serious stress if he is supporting 3 kids and a wife on min wage!
Quote Originally Posted by BWS77:
I see where you're coming from.... I'm looking at it more as an everyday need to put food on the table and put gas in your car. Hell, the $300K guy could have stress from being in debt the same as the FF worker..... His $500K debt is the same as FF guys $20K. There is shared stress money wise, they are just on different planes.
Yes--but still the min wage guy had better be using it to pay tuition, etc. Not to make a living. It should not be his career---he better be in a dorm or still at home with parents. Or you are right---he has serious stress if he is supporting 3 kids and a wife on min wage!
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
Always a smart idea to hire a career lifer. Wouldn't you if you owned a business?
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
Always a smart idea to hire a career lifer. Wouldn't you if you owned a business?
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
Perhaps if your guy didn't leave the gate wide open, there wouldn't be an endless stream of "future democrats" running and swimming across the border and kicking the bottom out of the skilled trades wage market. Those used to be solid "middle class" jobs, but not anymore.
I'm also certain that YOU always buy American and would never be caught shopping for low priced Chinese crap, hiring illegals to work around your house, or eating in the places that employ them. Nope, nope, and nope. In fact, you want to take your money and leave the country. Oh the hypocrisy........I mean that's cool, but oh those corporations (that owe a duty to their shareholders, not you.....should never ever go looking for value outside the US...nope never).
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
Perhaps if your guy didn't leave the gate wide open, there wouldn't be an endless stream of "future democrats" running and swimming across the border and kicking the bottom out of the skilled trades wage market. Those used to be solid "middle class" jobs, but not anymore.
I'm also certain that YOU always buy American and would never be caught shopping for low priced Chinese crap, hiring illegals to work around your house, or eating in the places that employ them. Nope, nope, and nope. In fact, you want to take your money and leave the country. Oh the hypocrisy........I mean that's cool, but oh those corporations (that owe a duty to their shareholders, not you.....should never ever go looking for value outside the US...nope never).
Perhaps if your guy didn't leave the gate wide open, there wouldn't be an endless stream of "future democrats" running and swimming across the border and kicking the bottom out of the skilled trades wage market. Those used to be solid "middle class" jobs, but not anymore.
I'm also certain that YOU always buy American and would never be caught shopping for low priced Chinese crap, hiring illegals to work around your house, or eating in the places that employ them. Nope, nope, and nope. In fact, you want to take your money and leave the country. Oh the hypocrisy........I mean that's cool, but oh those corporations (that owe a duty to their shareholders, not you.....should never ever go looking for value outside the US...nope never).
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:
Perhaps if your guy didn't leave the gate wide open, there wouldn't be an endless stream of "future democrats" running and swimming across the border and kicking the bottom out of the skilled trades wage market. Those used to be solid "middle class" jobs, but not anymore.
I'm also certain that YOU always buy American and would never be caught shopping for low priced Chinese crap, hiring illegals to work around your house, or eating in the places that employ them. Nope, nope, and nope. In fact, you want to take your money and leave the country. Oh the hypocrisy........I mean that's cool, but oh those corporations (that owe a duty to their shareholders, not you.....should never ever go looking for value outside the US...nope never).
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
Why?
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
In short, historical data suggest that the Great Recession has increased the share of the population that considers itself lower than middle class but offers no evidence of a long-term increase or even a steady rise over the “lost decade.”
In the PRC analyses, median household income rose 22 percent from 1979 to 2007 (business-cycle peaks), but the CPS figures do not take into account non-cash transfers such as food stamps, Medicaid, and Medicare; employer-provided health insurance; or changes in taxes.
Etc. Etc.
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
No, a burger flipper job is not supposed to be a career choice. But over the last forty years the Corporate Fukks have turned it into exactly that with their outsourcing of Middle Class jobs.
Another point that seems to be lost in the argument here... the $15 / hr jobs are being phased in over the next SEVEN YEARS. This whole process does not even begin for another year, April 2015. And when it does, new employees will have to endure a 90 day training period. Time enough for an employer to give a good new employee the $15 minimum or fire the deadbeats. As it should be.
In short, historical data suggest that the Great Recession has increased the share of the population that considers itself lower than middle class but offers no evidence of a long-term increase or even a steady rise over the “lost decade.”
In the PRC analyses, median household income rose 22 percent from 1979 to 2007 (business-cycle peaks), but the CPS figures do not take into account non-cash transfers such as food stamps, Medicaid, and Medicare; employer-provided health insurance; or changes in taxes.
Yeah we had this discussion in another thread I think in politics and like Sheets or Wawa etc it wont happen at a FF place, the menu is too complex and the number of people needing service is much higher.
Burger King tried touch screen kiosks I think in the 80's, it failed. People are not smart enough to efficiently order via kiosk..you have to educate people to use it, an employee has to man it just like at the self serve grocery kiosks, the profit margin slips because there is no upsell..cash has to be handled which means someone has to give change...the cost to implement is too high and maintenance is high..the benefit is way too low to use these kinds of machines for ordering.
They are working quite well in in other countries that have regulated the min wage. Also people are much more tech savy now than they were in the 80's
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
Yeah we had this discussion in another thread I think in politics and like Sheets or Wawa etc it wont happen at a FF place, the menu is too complex and the number of people needing service is much higher.
Burger King tried touch screen kiosks I think in the 80's, it failed. People are not smart enough to efficiently order via kiosk..you have to educate people to use it, an employee has to man it just like at the self serve grocery kiosks, the profit margin slips because there is no upsell..cash has to be handled which means someone has to give change...the cost to implement is too high and maintenance is high..the benefit is way too low to use these kinds of machines for ordering.
They are working quite well in in other countries that have regulated the min wage. Also people are much more tech savy now than they were in the 80's
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
'I am not impressed with your performance' GSP
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
I always look to do my business at a local level. Absolutely no chain restaurants. We have three or four local restaurants we will patronize on a weekly basis. We do 100% of our shopping at a small chain, family owed grocery (Geissler's - Google it). Haven't set foot in a Wal-Mart in about 5-6 years. Just had my car engine replaced for $4K at the local town garage rather than giving the work to a big car dealer. I'm Local - Don't Hassle Me.
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
We try to subsidize everything in U.S.---including the unskilled and/or lazy worker that will not get an education or learn a higher paying skill.
Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
We try to subsidize everything in U.S.---including the unskilled and/or lazy worker that will not get an education or learn a higher paying skill.
Why are you so anti-corp? They have done way more good than bad and it is not close at all. Look at what all we have. Cannot be 1830 forever. I understand there are some greedy guys, etc. But the good outweigh the bad by far. Have really helped this country out I think.
Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
Brookings Think Tank
Washington DC Propagandists.
Yes, THEY have no reason to lie.
Why are you so anti-corp? They have done way more good than bad and it is not close at all. Look at what all we have. Cannot be 1830 forever. I understand there are some greedy guys, etc. But the good outweigh the bad by far. Have really helped this country out I think.
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
C'mon ken, at least understand the facts.
This phases in over the course of the next SEVEN YEARS.
NEW EMPLOYEES are not enshrined at the $15 minimum wage.
They have to prove themselves over a 90 day Training Period.
Employers have those 90 Days to weed out the chafe from the wheat.
As it should be.
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
Quote Originally Posted by 1129ken:
As someone who earned the minimum wage when it was $1.50 an hour in 1967, I never understood the concept of the employer owing the employee anything more than the wage agreed upon at the time of hiring. The employee " applies " for the job. If you don't like the wage, don't apply. If you're fortunate enough to be hired, you'll make the wage you knew the job paid when you asked to be hired. If you want to do better, make yourself valuable to an employer and command more money. The idea that the government should step in to force employers to pay more money to employees who have not made themselves invaluable is contrary to everything that has made America great. I'm all for telling a crumby boss to " shove it ", but if you have no skills, you have no leverage. You don't want to flip burgers for minimum wage ? Fine. Take personal responsibility. Learn a trade. There is nothing more demeaning than having to rely on the government to force your employer to pay you more than the employer thinks you're worth. And, like it or not, if you don't have the skills to command more than the minimum, that is what you are worth.
C'mon ken, at least understand the facts.
This phases in over the course of the next SEVEN YEARS.
NEW EMPLOYEES are not enshrined at the $15 minimum wage.
They have to prove themselves over a 90 day Training Period.
Employers have those 90 Days to weed out the chafe from the wheat.
Don't care about that part---I am asking about all of the numbers, including from folks like you and me about the middle class growth?
Figures lie and Liars figure.
You can make numbers say anything you want.
Let us deal in FACTS.
In 1979 I was driving a forklift in a Teamster Warehouse at $16 / hr. Health and Retirement benefits made that a $30 / hr job.
Are you trying to tell me that time and inflation has kept pace with Lower Middle Class employees?
THIRTY FIVE FRIGGIN YEARS LATER... And worker wages have gone absolutely NOWHERE?
Meanwhile CEO pay has improved 300%... Cut costs, cut jobs, cut everything and collect your million dollar bonuses while sending the average worker into poverty.
Yes, I an OUTTA HERE in 12 Months. I cannot stand a minute longer of this Corporate hypocrisy. The pitting of Reps vs Dems, LIKE IT MAKES SOME KIND OF DIFFERENCE.
George Carlin NAILED IT... They own you.
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
Don't care about that part---I am asking about all of the numbers, including from folks like you and me about the middle class growth?
Figures lie and Liars figure.
You can make numbers say anything you want.
Let us deal in FACTS.
In 1979 I was driving a forklift in a Teamster Warehouse at $16 / hr. Health and Retirement benefits made that a $30 / hr job.
Are you trying to tell me that time and inflation has kept pace with Lower Middle Class employees?
THIRTY FIVE FRIGGIN YEARS LATER... And worker wages have gone absolutely NOWHERE?
Meanwhile CEO pay has improved 300%... Cut costs, cut jobs, cut everything and collect your million dollar bonuses while sending the average worker into poverty.
Yes, I an OUTTA HERE in 12 Months. I cannot stand a minute longer of this Corporate hypocrisy. The pitting of Reps vs Dems, LIKE IT MAKES SOME KIND OF DIFFERENCE.
They are working quite well in in other countries that have regulated the min wage. Also people are much more tech savy now than they were in the 80's
Ive never seen a self serve kiosk work faster than an experienced person and I use them all the time in the grocery stores. An employee knows the menu better than any customer would so making accurate, speedy orders trumps anything a kiosk can. Any operator who does not understand the value of upsell deserves to pay for a kiosk and pay to maintain it, update it, staff it and lose money...operator meaning business owner.
A well trained cashier can make double to triple their hourly wage in value added upsell to the FF place..upgrading to a large size, suggestive selling add ons or desserts, value meals etc. A kiosk has upgrade options but the rate of acceptance is much lower versus person to person.
Give me an example of a true FF place in another country that solely uses kiosks, I'd love to check it out and see what the conclusions are.
Technology is nice but it is not always the best business solution and to me I'd pay 20 bucks an hour to keep a cashier who upsells, is fast and increases guest satisfaction. People will actually dine at certain places because of the cashier or staff if the people are doing a great job.
Quote Originally Posted by Lippsman:
They are working quite well in in other countries that have regulated the min wage. Also people are much more tech savy now than they were in the 80's
Ive never seen a self serve kiosk work faster than an experienced person and I use them all the time in the grocery stores. An employee knows the menu better than any customer would so making accurate, speedy orders trumps anything a kiosk can. Any operator who does not understand the value of upsell deserves to pay for a kiosk and pay to maintain it, update it, staff it and lose money...operator meaning business owner.
A well trained cashier can make double to triple their hourly wage in value added upsell to the FF place..upgrading to a large size, suggestive selling add ons or desserts, value meals etc. A kiosk has upgrade options but the rate of acceptance is much lower versus person to person.
Give me an example of a true FF place in another country that solely uses kiosks, I'd love to check it out and see what the conclusions are.
Technology is nice but it is not always the best business solution and to me I'd pay 20 bucks an hour to keep a cashier who upsells, is fast and increases guest satisfaction. People will actually dine at certain places because of the cashier or staff if the people are doing a great job.
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