• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Kalshi Referral Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • Polymarket Referral Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • Betr Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
      • Gemini Predictions Promo Code
    • NFL Week 3
      NFL Week 3
      • NFL Odds
      • NFL Picks
      • Falcons-Packers Picks
      • NFL Prediction Markets
      • NFL Betting Sites
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | College Football

    Bowl thread 2010....

    «First Previous 345 ... 91011 Next Last»
    gcnmoo
    AChigurh
    vanzack
    Livan33
    dxxlan
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 35447
    Posts: 263
    «First Previous 345 ... 91011 Next Last»
     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 6:57 PM ET #51

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Well, as someone who you love to debate on everything - I can attest that everyone has what they consider to be important to handicapping.  You dont think confernce history is important, I do.  You think your stat above about coming off of a loss is important, I dont.

    Thats just the way it is but I get a feeling you are always looking to prove a point, or to win a debate.  Certainly there are things that are black and white, but trend stats are not one of them.  Just more ingredients in the recipe.

    I am curious about your statement that N Illinois "performed better than Fresno did and most definitely better than past MAC Bowl teams."   Lots of adjusted strength of schedule models (including mine) have N Ill very close to the bottom of the 120 ncaaf teams (mine 118, Steeles 119).  I'm curious to hear what you see in N Ill "on field performance" that you find so convincing, other than running through the weakest conference there is.

    And BTW - Im pretty sure N Ill would fit right in the middle of previous MAC bowl teams.  This was a down year for the MAC (that is saying a lot), dont forget the Central Michigan teams with LeFevour as of late, and Ball St in 08 etc.  This N Ill team has done nothing to distinguish itself even amongst a lousy MAC season IMO.

    I like to debate those people with valid opinions on covers (very few). I basically go through each game play by play of each team.  This takes about 15 minutes per game, so I pay another guy to do half of the games through the year.  I take out plays in blowouts, take out sneaks, downs.  Also subtract sacked yards and add them to total yards so they aren't lumped in with rushing yards.  I also grade each play as successful/non-successful.  50% yards on 1st down is success, 70% 2nd down, 100% on 3rd down.  You get the picture.

    Then I put all my teams into spreadsheets.  I can then figure out how many yards per play (based on opponent) each team is better/worse than average on both offense/defense, rushing/passing, etc.  Also look at plays/game and success % to see if a team is not gonna look quite as good in yards per play.  I can basically come up with a spread based on the database I used from these totals.

    Anyways, I discounted all offensive stats from NIU's first game vs Iowa St as QB Harnish DNP.  NIU was +0.95 yards per play on offense and -.04 yards per play on defense, overall +0.91.  Again this is based on SOS.  They averaged 7.29 yards per play (relevant plays) that an average offense would gain 6.34 yards per play.  On defense they allowed 5.37 yards per play where the average defense would have allowed 5.33 yards per play vs this set of opponents. 

    Fresno I have at -0.05 on offense and +0.16 on defense for +0.11 overall, worse than NIU's +0.91.   NIU was successful on 57.1% of plays against a schedule 9 pts worse than average while Fresno was SUCC on 50.6% of plays vs a schedule 1 pt better than average.

    If you want to look simply at pts (non D-1 games not included) to find what the spread should be (which is very flawed).  NIU outscored opponents 39.1-19.3 vs a -9 SOS = +10.8.   Fresno was 29.3 - 30.3 vs a +1 SOS for EVEN.  So with that model you'd get NIU -10.8.  That is obviously very simple, and shouldn't go by that.

    I have Fresno 0.2 pts better on special teams, and both teams should run the same amount of plays, so from a math standpoint of yards per play the spread should be -5.5 NIU, which makes me wanna play them.  I'm just very concerned about all the coaches leaving. 

    Hill does have an awful ATS record vs non-BCS teams in his tenure however.  I believe it is 36-63-2 and 0-4 in bowl games.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Well, as someone who you love to debate on everything - I can attest that everyone has what they consider to be important to handicapping.  You dont think confernce history is important, I do.  You think your stat above about coming off of a loss is important, I dont.

    Thats just the way it is but I get a feeling you are always looking to prove a point, or to win a debate.  Certainly there are things that are black and white, but trend stats are not one of them.  Just more ingredients in the recipe.

    I am curious about your statement that N Illinois "performed better than Fresno did and most definitely better than past MAC Bowl teams."   Lots of adjusted strength of schedule models (including mine) have N Ill very close to the bottom of the 120 ncaaf teams (mine 118, Steeles 119).  I'm curious to hear what you see in N Ill "on field performance" that you find so convincing, other than running through the weakest conference there is.

    And BTW - Im pretty sure N Ill would fit right in the middle of previous MAC bowl teams.  This was a down year for the MAC (that is saying a lot), dont forget the Central Michigan teams with LeFevour as of late, and Ball St in 08 etc.  This N Ill team has done nothing to distinguish itself even amongst a lousy MAC season IMO.

    I like to debate those people with valid opinions on covers (very few). I basically go through each game play by play of each team.  This takes about 15 minutes per game, so I pay another guy to do half of the games through the year.  I take out plays in blowouts, take out sneaks, downs.  Also subtract sacked yards and add them to total yards so they aren't lumped in with rushing yards.  I also grade each play as successful/non-successful.  50% yards on 1st down is success, 70% 2nd down, 100% on 3rd down.  You get the picture.

    Then I put all my teams into spreadsheets.  I can then figure out how many yards per play (based on opponent) each team is better/worse than average on both offense/defense, rushing/passing, etc.  Also look at plays/game and success % to see if a team is not gonna look quite as good in yards per play.  I can basically come up with a spread based on the database I used from these totals.

    Anyways, I discounted all offensive stats from NIU's first game vs Iowa St as QB Harnish DNP.  NIU was +0.95 yards per play on offense and -.04 yards per play on defense, overall +0.91.  Again this is based on SOS.  They averaged 7.29 yards per play (relevant plays) that an average offense would gain 6.34 yards per play.  On defense they allowed 5.37 yards per play where the average defense would have allowed 5.33 yards per play vs this set of opponents. 

    Fresno I have at -0.05 on offense and +0.16 on defense for +0.11 overall, worse than NIU's +0.91.   NIU was successful on 57.1% of plays against a schedule 9 pts worse than average while Fresno was SUCC on 50.6% of plays vs a schedule 1 pt better than average.

    If you want to look simply at pts (non D-1 games not included) to find what the spread should be (which is very flawed).  NIU outscored opponents 39.1-19.3 vs a -9 SOS = +10.8.   Fresno was 29.3 - 30.3 vs a +1 SOS for EVEN.  So with that model you'd get NIU -10.8.  That is obviously very simple, and shouldn't go by that.

    I have Fresno 0.2 pts better on special teams, and both teams should run the same amount of plays, so from a math standpoint of yards per play the spread should be -5.5 NIU, which makes me wanna play them.  I'm just very concerned about all the coaches leaving. 

    Hill does have an awful ATS record vs non-BCS teams in his tenure however.  I believe it is 36-63-2 and 0-4 in bowl games.

     
    AChigurh
    AChigurh
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2008
    Posts: 833
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:03 PM ET #52

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:




    you would consider this to be a more telling stat than the fact that the MAC is 2-15 SU in bowl games?  i personally don't put any amount of stock into that 67-43-4 trend... it needs to be broken down further...

    This is way off.....

    The 67-43 trends does not need to be broken down any further.   keep in mind the key to trends is low parameters high sample size. Breaking it down further will only add paremters a shrink the sample size thervfore weakening.  You want to be able to put logic behind trends also.  A solid reason why it is happening and this one has some substance to it.

    The MAC trend is the weak trend.  Everyone knows the MAC sucks and they struggle in bowl games.  Esp. this year with everyone talking about how trash Boise States schedule was when they were trying to break into the title game.  Spreads and lines will be more adjusted for MAC teams than they have ever been.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:




    you would consider this to be a more telling stat than the fact that the MAC is 2-15 SU in bowl games?  i personally don't put any amount of stock into that 67-43-4 trend... it needs to be broken down further...

    This is way off.....

    The 67-43 trends does not need to be broken down any further.   keep in mind the key to trends is low parameters high sample size. Breaking it down further will only add paremters a shrink the sample size thervfore weakening.  You want to be able to put logic behind trends also.  A solid reason why it is happening and this one has some substance to it.

    The MAC trend is the weak trend.  Everyone knows the MAC sucks and they struggle in bowl games.  Esp. this year with everyone talking about how trash Boise States schedule was when they were trying to break into the title game.  Spreads and lines will be more adjusted for MAC teams than they have ever been.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:07 PM ET #53

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I like to debate those people with valid opinions on covers (very few). I basically go through each game play by play of each team.  This takes about 15 minutes per game, so I pay another guy to do half of the games through the year.  I take out plays in blowouts, take out sneaks, downs.  Also subtract sacked yards and add them to total yards so they aren't lumped in with rushing yards.  I also grade each play as successful/non-successful.  50% yards on 1st down is success, 70% 2nd down, 100% on 3rd down.  You get the picture.

    Then I put all my teams into spreadsheets.  I can then figure out how many yards per play (based on opponent) each team is better/worse than average on both offense/defense, rushing/passing, etc.  Also look at plays/game and success % to see if a team is not gonna look quite as good in yards per play.  I can basically come up with a spread based on the database I used from these totals.

    Anyways, I discounted all offensive stats from NIU's first game vs Iowa St as QB Harnish DNP.  NIU was +0.95 yards per play on offense and -.04 yards per play on defense, overall +0.91.  Again this is based on SOS.  They averaged 7.29 yards per play (relevant plays) that an average offense would gain 6.34 yards per play.  On defense they allowed 5.37 yards per play where the average defense would have allowed 5.33 yards per play vs this set of opponents. 

    Fresno I have at -0.05 on offense and +0.16 on defense for +0.11 overall, worse than NIU's +0.91.   NIU was successful on 57.1% of plays against a schedule 9 pts worse than average while Fresno was SUCC on 50.6% of plays vs a schedule 1 pt better than average.

    If you want to look simply at pts (non D-1 games not included) to find what the spread should be (which is very flawed).  NIU outscored opponents 39.1-19.3 vs a -9 SOS = +10.8.   Fresno was 29.3 - 30.3 vs a +1 SOS for EVEN.  So with that model you'd get NIU -10.8.  That is obviously very simple, and shouldn't go by that.

    I have Fresno 0.2 pts better on special teams, and both teams should run the same amount of plays, so from a math standpoint of yards per play the spread should be -5.5 NIU, which makes me wanna play them.  I'm just very concerned about all the coaches leaving. 

    Hill does have an awful ATS record vs non-BCS teams in his tenure however.  I believe it is 36-63-2 and 0-4 in bowl games.

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I like to debate those people with valid opinions on covers (very few). I basically go through each game play by play of each team.  This takes about 15 minutes per game, so I pay another guy to do half of the games through the year.  I take out plays in blowouts, take out sneaks, downs.  Also subtract sacked yards and add them to total yards so they aren't lumped in with rushing yards.  I also grade each play as successful/non-successful.  50% yards on 1st down is success, 70% 2nd down, 100% on 3rd down.  You get the picture.

    Then I put all my teams into spreadsheets.  I can then figure out how many yards per play (based on opponent) each team is better/worse than average on both offense/defense, rushing/passing, etc.  Also look at plays/game and success % to see if a team is not gonna look quite as good in yards per play.  I can basically come up with a spread based on the database I used from these totals.

    Anyways, I discounted all offensive stats from NIU's first game vs Iowa St as QB Harnish DNP.  NIU was +0.95 yards per play on offense and -.04 yards per play on defense, overall +0.91.  Again this is based on SOS.  They averaged 7.29 yards per play (relevant plays) that an average offense would gain 6.34 yards per play.  On defense they allowed 5.37 yards per play where the average defense would have allowed 5.33 yards per play vs this set of opponents. 

    Fresno I have at -0.05 on offense and +0.16 on defense for +0.11 overall, worse than NIU's +0.91.   NIU was successful on 57.1% of plays against a schedule 9 pts worse than average while Fresno was SUCC on 50.6% of plays vs a schedule 1 pt better than average.

    If you want to look simply at pts (non D-1 games not included) to find what the spread should be (which is very flawed).  NIU outscored opponents 39.1-19.3 vs a -9 SOS = +10.8.   Fresno was 29.3 - 30.3 vs a +1 SOS for EVEN.  So with that model you'd get NIU -10.8.  That is obviously very simple, and shouldn't go by that.

    I have Fresno 0.2 pts better on special teams, and both teams should run the same amount of plays, so from a math standpoint of yards per play the spread should be -5.5 NIU, which makes me wanna play them.  I'm just very concerned about all the coaches leaving. 

    Hill does have an awful ATS record vs non-BCS teams in his tenure however.  I believe it is 36-63-2 and 0-4 in bowl games.

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:09 PM ET #54

    Another question - how do you grade a 3 yard 1st down run as successful or non-successful?

    Just curious of your criteria for this thumbs up / thumbs down approach.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Another question - how do you grade a 3 yard 1st down run as successful or non-successful?

    Just curious of your criteria for this thumbs up / thumbs down approach.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:11 PM ET #55

    Another question - do you add weight to your teams performances for recent performances or special circumstances?

    For instance, a team that loses their first 2 games and then runs off 10 in a row could be thought of differently than a team that went 10-0 and then lost their last 2.

    I have a very non-scientific approach to this weighting, would like to hear yours.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Another question - do you add weight to your teams performances for recent performances or special circumstances?

    For instance, a team that loses their first 2 games and then runs off 10 in a row could be thought of differently than a team that went 10-0 and then lost their last 2.

    I have a very non-scientific approach to this weighting, would like to hear yours.

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:15 PM ET #56

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Another question - how do you grade a 3 yard 1st down run as successful or non-successful?

    Just curious of your criteria for this thumbs up / thumbs down approach.

    A 3 yard run for first down would be graded as a successful play, yes.  Obviously a 50 yard pass for a first down is more successful than a 3 yard run for first down, that's why I prefer yards per play, but some teams are more dink and dunk teams and their yard per play stats are a little lower than they should be.  Oklahoma is a team that has very high success rates vs a tough schedule, but their Yards per play stats are rather low (for a very good team).

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Another question - how do you grade a 3 yard 1st down run as successful or non-successful?

    Just curious of your criteria for this thumbs up / thumbs down approach.

    A 3 yard run for first down would be graded as a successful play, yes.  Obviously a 50 yard pass for a first down is more successful than a 3 yard run for first down, that's why I prefer yards per play, but some teams are more dink and dunk teams and their yard per play stats are a little lower than they should be.  Oklahoma is a team that has very high success rates vs a tough schedule, but their Yards per play stats are rather low (for a very good team).

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:16 PM ET #57

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

    I don't post that often because I often don't have time.  I spend probably 50-60 hours a week on betting as is and have a hard enough time getting my bets matched for the amounts I want.  I do like to sift through threads now and then of those posters that I respect.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

    I don't post that often because I often don't have time.  I spend probably 50-60 hours a week on betting as is and have a hard enough time getting my bets matched for the amounts I want.  I do like to sift through threads now and then of those posters that I respect.

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:19 PM ET #58

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Another question - do you add weight to your teams performances for recent performances or special circumstances?

    For instance, a team that loses their first 2 games and then runs off 10 in a row could be thought of differently than a team that went 10-0 and then lost their last 2.

    I have a very non-scientific approach to this weighting, would like to hear yours.

    I look at recent performance and sometimes if the situation merits I may throw out certain games.  I keep track of injurys and personnel changes that may have effected a teams performance.  I like to keep sample size as large as possible so I like to have a reason to use only recent performance, but I do double check last 5 games numbers or so for every team (each side of the ball).

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Another question - do you add weight to your teams performances for recent performances or special circumstances?

    For instance, a team that loses their first 2 games and then runs off 10 in a row could be thought of differently than a team that went 10-0 and then lost their last 2.

    I have a very non-scientific approach to this weighting, would like to hear yours.

    I look at recent performance and sometimes if the situation merits I may throw out certain games.  I keep track of injurys and personnel changes that may have effected a teams performance.  I like to keep sample size as large as possible so I like to have a reason to use only recent performance, but I do double check last 5 games numbers or so for every team (each side of the ball).

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:19 PM ET #59

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    A 3 yard run for first down would be graded as a successful play, yes.  Obviously a 50 yard pass for a first down is more successful than a 3 yard run for first down, that's why I prefer yards per play, but some teams are more dink and dunk teams and their yard per play stats are a little lower than they should be.  Oklahoma is a team that has very high success rates vs a tough schedule, but their Yards per play stats are rather low (for a very good team).

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    A 3 yard run for first down would be graded as a successful play, yes.  Obviously a 50 yard pass for a first down is more successful than a 3 yard run for first down, that's why I prefer yards per play, but some teams are more dink and dunk teams and their yard per play stats are a little lower than they should be.  Oklahoma is a team that has very high success rates vs a tough schedule, but their Yards per play stats are rather low (for a very good team).

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:21 PM ET #60

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I don't post that often because I often don't have time.  I spend probably 50-60 hours a week on betting as is and have a hard enough time getting my bets matched for the amounts I want.  I do like to sift through threads now and then of those posters that I respect.

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I don't post that often because I often don't have time.  I spend probably 50-60 hours a week on betting as is and have a hard enough time getting my bets matched for the amounts I want.  I do like to sift through threads now and then of those posters that I respect.

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:22 PM ET #61

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

     

    Fresno St's average Opponent was +1.0 pts better than an average team according to my numbers.  NIU's was -9.0 pts worse than average.  That is a rather large difference as NIU was in the bottom 5 of my SOS (I'd have to double check to see what # exactly, I wanna say #118 though)

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Very nice analysis.

    Im curious - that seems like stats and analysis that could help the forum.  Why dont you post that for every game, and make picks?  I might be totally wrong, but I dont remember you posting picks - do you?

    One thing on the analysis that I am curious about is the SOS numbers you are using.  Is it a true weighted SOS, or a simplified one?  I'm pretty sure that is where you and I are disagreeing on the same set of input numbers on this game, my SOS numbers difference are big between FS and Nil.

     

    Fresno St's average Opponent was +1.0 pts better than an average team according to my numbers.  NIU's was -9.0 pts worse than average.  That is a rather large difference as NIU was in the bottom 5 of my SOS (I'd have to double check to see what # exactly, I wanna say #118 though)

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:23 PM ET #62

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

    3 yard run on first down is always unsuccessful in my book.  National average is 4.98 yards per play on first down I believe and thats why  I say 5 yards per play is a success. I try and be as subjective as possible however and try and balance for 4 and 5 yards gained on first downs.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

    3 yard run on first down is always unsuccessful in my book.  National average is 4.98 yards per play on first down I believe and thats why  I say 5 yards per play is a success. I try and be as subjective as possible however and try and balance for 4 and 5 yards gained on first downs.

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:25 PM ET #63

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

    It is not an exact science.  I trained him last year or two so now we are very similar in our grades.  We always do one game the same each week to make sure we are on the same page.  50% on 1st down, 70% on 2nd down and 100% on 3rd down are my marks for success, but again that is subjective.  Over the course of the year, the better teams will have high success rates. 

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    I meant a 3 yard run on 1st down from their own 20 yard line (start of the game, team kicks off, touchback, 1st play from scrimmage is a 3 yard run).

    Im trying to get at how you can grade every play as successful or not.  It seems impossible to me.  A 8 yard gain on 3rd and 10?  A 1 yard gain on 2nd and 1?

    Just trying to understand how you can do this, and also have someone else doing it at the same time and be consistent.  It would seem impossible to me that someone else could use the same criteria as you.

    It is not an exact science.  I trained him last year or two so now we are very similar in our grades.  We always do one game the same each week to make sure we are on the same page.  50% on 1st down, 70% on 2nd down and 100% on 3rd down are my marks for success, but again that is subjective.  Over the course of the year, the better teams will have high success rates. 

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:29 PM ET #64

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

    Dont know if you saw this, but I would really like to see your bowl picks.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

    Dont know if you saw this, but I would really like to see your bowl picks.

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:29 PM ET #65

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    Care to post your bowl games here that you like?  Even just line listed?

    If I am being honest, I feel like you take a snipers approach with me.  I would like to see your opinions on the upcoming games because it sounds like we take similar vehicles to reach conclusions.....

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:36 PM ET #66

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

    Cool - look forward to the thread....

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

    Cool - look forward to the thread....

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:39 PM ET #67

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

    You must have a play on WVU right?

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    Honestly, don't mean to take a sniper's approach to you.  I usually just respond to people's threads if I disagree with their viewpoint.  Don't take it the wrong way.  I have probably looked at a few dozen of your posts and agree with everything you've said. 

    Sure, I will post a thread with my bowl leans/play for those interested.  I did not love all that many lines to begin with and currently only have 5 bets or so that I have money on.  Then again, I haven't broken down games other than the first 3 that are being played on saturday.  I do not have any bets on the first 3 as of now.  The only one I'm contemplating a bet on is NIU. 

    You must have a play on WVU right?

     

     
    Livan33
    Livan33
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Apr, 2008
    Posts: 907
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:40 PM ET #68

    Wow, this discussion is awesome....rare to find something this good around here. Keep it up fellas!

    Reply

    Wow, this discussion is awesome....rare to find something this good around here. Keep it up fellas!

     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:42 PM ET #69

    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You must have a play on WVU right?

     

    No play on that game yet.  I commented about WVU on page 2 of your thread.  Take a look and respond if you get a chance.

    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

    You must have a play on WVU right?

     

    No play on that game yet.  I commented about WVU on page 2 of your thread.  Take a look and respond if you get a chance.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 7:48 PM ET #70

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    No play on that game yet.  I commented about WVU on page 2 of your thread.  Take a look and respond if you get a chance.

    Yeah - apparantly brain cramp #2 of this thread (I typed that Fresno was MWC vs MAC instead of WAC) - I forgot you posted that.

    As I said earlier, I cant ignore the numbers on this one.  I know the O'Brien factor, and believe me I know the Stewart factor too.  The stats just jump off the page at me on this one.  I had WVU down the stretch against Uconn, Cincy, lou, and Pitt (3-1 ats) because of their stats - mostly on defense.

    We will see, but there are some games I just trust my number - and this is one of them.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    No play on that game yet.  I commented about WVU on page 2 of your thread.  Take a look and respond if you get a chance.

    Yeah - apparantly brain cramp #2 of this thread (I typed that Fresno was MWC vs MAC instead of WAC) - I forgot you posted that.

    As I said earlier, I cant ignore the numbers on this one.  I know the O'Brien factor, and believe me I know the Stewart factor too.  The stats just jump off the page at me on this one.  I had WVU down the stretch against Uconn, Cincy, lou, and Pitt (3-1 ats) because of their stats - mostly on defense.

    We will see, but there are some games I just trust my number - and this is one of them.

     
    dxxlan
    dxxlan
    Rookie
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jun, 2010
    Posts: 828
    Posted: Dec. 16, 2010 - 11:12 PM ET #71

    Quote Originally Posted by Livan33:

    Wow, this discussion is awesome....rare to find something this good around here. Keep it up fellas!


    Seriously...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Livan33:

    Wow, this discussion is awesome....rare to find something this good around here. Keep it up fellas!


    Seriously...
     
    crazycarlitos
    crazycarlitos
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2008
    Posts: 863
    Posted: Dec. 17, 2010 - 1:05 AM ET #72

    troy and fresno st this sat

    Reply
    troy and fresno st this sat

     
    monkeebooger
    monkeebooger
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2006
    Posts: 6381
    Posted: Dec. 17, 2010 - 2:44 AM ET #73

    Vanzack,

    Curious on your record last bowl season? I think remember it was quite good.
    Reply
    Vanzack,

    Curious on your record last bowl season? I think remember it was quite good.
     
    ApocalypseLater
    ApocalypseLater
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Aug, 2010
    Posts: 4260
    Posted: Dec. 17, 2010 - 3:35 AM ET #74

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I'm looking at how NIU performed on the field this year.  They performed better than Fresno did and most definitely better than past MAC Bowl teams.  I still have no bet on NIU and likely will not, just don't understand why everyone on this covers board taking Fresno just because NIU is from the MAC. 






    you're saying this team performed better than the Ball St teams with Nate Davis, or the CMich teams with Dan Lefevour?  you gotta be kidding me, man!

    every argument you make just keeps getting more and more flawed, or deluded...

    no way in hell this NIU team is better than either of those teams... they are the same as Buffalo a couple years ago under Turner Gill, and that team got run out of the stadium by a mediocre UConn team...

    you have me absolutely convinced that Fresno is the right play, because if you think this way, then a lot of other people do, and that is why this line isn't Fresno (-4), like it should be...
    Reply
    Quote Originally Posted by gcnmoo:

    I'm looking at how NIU performed on the field this year.  They performed better than Fresno did and most definitely better than past MAC Bowl teams.  I still have no bet on NIU and likely will not, just don't understand why everyone on this covers board taking Fresno just because NIU is from the MAC. 






    you're saying this team performed better than the Ball St teams with Nate Davis, or the CMich teams with Dan Lefevour?  you gotta be kidding me, man!

    every argument you make just keeps getting more and more flawed, or deluded...

    no way in hell this NIU team is better than either of those teams... they are the same as Buffalo a couple years ago under Turner Gill, and that team got run out of the stadium by a mediocre UConn team...

    you have me absolutely convinced that Fresno is the right play, because if you think this way, then a lot of other people do, and that is why this line isn't Fresno (-4), like it should be...
     
     
    gcnmoo
    gcnmoo
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2005
    Posts: 5202
    Posted: Dec. 17, 2010 - 3:51 AM ET #75

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:






    you're saying this team performed better than the Ball St teams with Nate Davis, or the CMich teams with Dan Lefevour?  you gotta be kidding me, man!

    every argument you make just keeps getting more and more flawed, or deluded...

    no way in hell this NIU team is better than either of those teams... they are the same as Buffalo a couple years ago under Turner Gill, and that team got run out of the stadium by a mediocre UConn team...

    you have me absolutely convinced that Fresno is the right play, because if you think this way, then a lot of other people do, and that is why this line isn't Fresno (-4), like it should be...

    Your only argument is that theyre from the MAC....I was referring to the majority of past MAC teams, not necessarily Ball St or CMU fro the past.  It is pointless to compare them to past teams anyways.  I have mentioned plenty of points that I find relevant, I don't really care that theyre from the MAC. They performed better in the MAC than plenty of teams from major conferences would have.  It is all relative.

    Reply

    Quote Originally Posted by ApocalypseLater:






    you're saying this team performed better than the Ball St teams with Nate Davis, or the CMich teams with Dan Lefevour?  you gotta be kidding me, man!

    every argument you make just keeps getting more and more flawed, or deluded...

    no way in hell this NIU team is better than either of those teams... they are the same as Buffalo a couple years ago under Turner Gill, and that team got run out of the stadium by a mediocre UConn team...

    you have me absolutely convinced that Fresno is the right play, because if you think this way, then a lot of other people do, and that is why this line isn't Fresno (-4), like it should be...

    Your only argument is that theyre from the MAC....I was referring to the majority of past MAC teams, not necessarily Ball St or CMU fro the past.  It is pointless to compare them to past teams anyways.  I have mentioned plenty of points that I find relevant, I don't really care that theyre from the MAC. They performed better in the MAC than plenty of teams from major conferences would have.  It is all relative.

    All Forums | College Football
    «First Previous 345 ... 91011 Next Last»

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • 🤢🥴💩_ Fubah's risky baseball bets _🥶😲🥵 449,920
    • Thursday 09/24/2026 680
    • I'm embarrassed for Trump supporters 58,424
    • NFL LOCKED IN! 99,963
    • Happening just recently . . . 34,754
    • PART DEUX 182
    • ***Macwesties * Thur. * Sun. Sept. 24, 27, 2026 * Week #3 * NFL Football Plays* 3,135
    • ?? KBO Plays 🥎 15,251
    • NCAA FOOTBALL. 151 24,460
    • NCAA WEEK 4 *** Parlay Picasso *** 2,585

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 Genius Sports. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.