• Forums
  • Best Betting Sites
  • Sportsbook Promos
  • Best Sports Betting Apps
  • NFL Betting Forum
  • NBA Betting Forum
  • MLB Betting Forum
  • NHL Betting Forum
  • NCAAF Betting Forum
  • NCAAB Betting Forum
  • Soccer Betting Forum
  • Tennis Betting Forum
  • General Discussion
  • Help Forum
  • Guidelines
  • FAQ
  • Forum Updates
    Covers Logo
    Covers App
    Faster picks. Smarter bets.
    All in the NEW Covers App
    Download on the App Store Download on the Google Play Store
    • Sports
      • NFL
        • Back
        • NFL
        • NFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NFL Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NCAAF
        • Back
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAF Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NCAAF Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NBA
        • Back
        • NBA
        • NBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • NCAAB
        • Back
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • NCAAB Picks
        • Injuries
      • MLB
        • Back
        • MLB
        • MLB Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • MLB Picks
        • Weather
        • Injuries
      • NHL
        • Back
        • NHL
        • NHL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • Prop Projections
        • NHL Picks
        • Injuries
      • Soccer
      • UFC
      • WNBA
        • Back
        • WNBA
        • WNBA Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • WNBA Picks
        • Injuries
      • CFL
        • Back
        • CFL
        • CFL Home
        • Scores & Matchups
        • CFL Picks
      • Golf
        • Back
        • Golf
        • Golf Home
        • Golf Odds
        • Masters Odds
        • PGA Championship Odds
        • US Open Odds
        • British Open Odds
        • Ryder Cup Odds
        • Golf Picks
    • Odds
      • All Odds
      • NFL
      • NCAAF
      • NBA
      • NCAAB
      • MLB
      • NHL
      • Golf
      • Soccer Odds
        • Back
        • Soccer Odds
        • MLS Odds
        • Champions League Odds
        • Premier League Odds
      • UFC
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • Election Odds
      • Futures
        • Back
        • Futures
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • MLB
        • NHL
        • NCAAB
        • NCAAF
      • Sports Odds History
    • Picks
      • All Picks
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • NHL
      • MLB
      • NCAAF
      • NCAAB
      • Golf
      • WNBA
      • CFL
      • User Picks
      • Team User Picks
      • Consensus Picks
        • Back
        • Consensus Picks
        • All Consensus Picks
        • NFL
        • NBA
        • NHL
        • MLB
        • NCAAF
        • NCAAB
        • CFL
        • WNBA
        • Consensus FAQ
        • Public Money
    • Prop Projections
      • NFL
      • NBA
      • MLB
      • NHL
    • Betting
      • US Betting Sites
      • Canada Betting Sites
      • Sportsbook Reviews
      • States
        • Back
        • States
        • US Legal Tracker
        • Revenue Tracker
        • Arizona
        • Arkansas
        • California
        • Colorado
        • Connecticut
        • DC
        • Florida
        • Georgia
        • Illinois
        • Indiana
        • Iowa
        • Kansas
        • Kentucky
        • Louisiana
        • Maine
        • Maryland
        • Massachusetts
        • Michigan
        • Mississippi
        • Missouri
        • Nevada
        • New Hampshire
        • New Jersey
        • New York
        • North Carolina
        • Ohio
        • Oregon
        • Pennsylvania
        • Tennessee
        • Texas
        • Vermont
        • Virginia
        • West Virginia
        • Wyoming
      • Provinces
        • Back
        • Provinces
        • Alberta
        • British Columbia
        • Manitoba
        • New Brunswick
        • Newfoundland and Labrador
        • Northwest Territories
        • Nova Scotia
        • Nunavut
        • Ontario
        • Prince Edward Island
        • Quebec (English)
        • Quebec (francais)
        • Saskatchewan
        • Yukon
      • By Sport
        • Back
        • By Sport
        • Baseball
        • Basketball
        • Boxing
        • College Football
        • F1
        • Football
        • Super Bowl
        • Golf
        • Hockey
        • Horse Racing
        • March Madness
        • Soccer
        • UFC
        • World Cup
      • Betting Apps
        • Back
        • Betting Apps
        • Best Sports Betting Apps USA
        • Ontario Sports Betting Apps
      • Rest of World
        • Back
        • Rest of World
        • UK Betting Offers
          • Back
          • UK Betting Offers
          • UK Betting Sites
          • bet365 Bonus Code UK
          • 888Sport Promo Code UK
          • William Hill Sign up Offer
          • Betway Sign up Offer
          • BetVictor Bonus Code UK
      • Betting Guides
        • Back
        • Betting Guides
        • All Guides
        • Glossary
        • Betting Calculators
          • Back
          • Betting Calculators
          • Odds Converter
          • Parlay Calculator
        • Futures Betting Guide
        • Moneyline Betting Guide
        • Over/Under Betting Guide
        • Parlay Betting Guide
        • Point Spread Betting Guide
        • Prop Betting Guide
        • Sports Betting Guides
          • Back
          • Sports Betting Guides
          • How To Bet On Sports Guide
          • NFL Betting Guide
          • NHL Betting Guide
          • NBA Betting Guide
          • MLB Betting Guide
          • NCAAB Betting Guide
          • NCAAF Betting Guide
          • Golf Betting Guide
          • Tennis Betting Guide
        • Teaser Betting Guide
      • Betting News
        • Back
        • Betting News
        • All News
        • Industry News
        • Podcasts
        • Covers Videos
        • Covers Writers
        • Offers & Boosts
    • Promos
      • Sportsbook Promos
      • Canada Sportsbook Promos
      • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Sportsbook
        • bet365 Bonus Code
        • BET99 Promo Code
        • BetMGM Bonus Code
        • BetRivers Bonus Code
        • Caesars Sportsbook Promo
        • DraftKings Promo Code
        • Fanatics Sportsbook Promo
        • FanDuel Promo Code
        • Hard Rock Bet Promo Code
        • Sports Interaction Promo
        • Stake Promo Code
        • theScore Bet Promo Code
        • TonyBet Promo Code
      • Bonuses By Region
        • Back
        • Bonuses By Region
        • Arkansas Promos
        • Arizona Promos
        • Colorado Promos
        • Connecticut Promos
        • DC Promos
        • Illinois Promos
        • Indiana Promos
        • Iowa Promos
        • Kansas Promos
        • Kentucky Promos
        • Louisiana Promos
        • Maine Promos
        • Maryland Promos
        • Massachusetts Promos
        • Michigan Promos
        • Missouri Promos
        • New Jersey Promos
        • New York Promos
        • North Carolina Promos
        • Ohio Promos
        • Pennsylvania Promos
        • Tennessee Promos
        • Vermont Promos
        • Virginia Promos
        • West Virginia Promos
        • Wyoming Promos
    • Forum & Contests
      • All Forums
      • NFL Betting Forum
      • MLB Betting Forum
      • NCAAB Betting Forum
      • NCAAF Betting Forum
      • NBA Betting Forum
      • NHL Betting Forum
      • Soccer Betting Forum
      • Contests
        • Back
        • Contests
        • Contests Home
        • Streak Survivor
        • King of Covers
        • My Contests
    • Casino
      • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Back
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes Casino
        • Sweepstakes No-Deposit Bonuses
        • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Back
          • Sweepstakes Promos
          • Card Crush
          • Casino.click
          • Chanced Casino
          • Crown Coins Casino
          • FreeSpin Casino
          • LoneStar
          • McLuck
          • Mega Bonanza Casino
          • PlayFame
          • Pulsz
          • Stake.us
      • US Casinos
        • Back
        • US Casinos
        • US Online Casinos
        • US Online Casino Bonuses
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • bet365 Casino Promo Code
          • BetRivers Casino Promo
          • Borgata Casino Bonus Code
          • Caesars Casino Bonus Code
          • DraftKings Casino Promo
          • Fanatics Casino Promo
          • FanDuel Casino Promo Code
          • Golden Nugget Casino Promo
          • Hard Rock Bet Casino Promo
          • Hollywood Casino Promo Code
      • Canada Casinos
        • Back
        • Canada Casinos
        • Canada Online Casinos
        • Provinces
          • Back
          • Provinces
          • Alberta Online Casino
          • BC Online Casino
          • Ontario Online Casinos
        • Casino Promos
          • Back
          • Casino Promos
          • BC.GAME Bonus Code
          • Cloudbet Promo Code
          • RainBet Promo Code
          • Roobet Promo Code
          • Shuffle Promo Code
          • Thrill Promo Code
    • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Markets
      • Prediction Market Apps
      • Prediction Market Promos
      • Kalshi Promo Code
      • Polymarket Promo Code
      • DraftKings Predictions Promo Code
      • Novig Promo Code
      • ProphetX Promo Code
      • Underdog Promo Code
      • OG Promo Code
      • Fanatics Markets Promo Code
      • Plus500 Promo Code
    Covers Account
    Log in Create account
    Join free Log in
    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Sabermetrics - 2010 MLB System Plays and Analysis

    123 Next Last»
    dj_destroyer
    Ktrain
    michael-5
    SKiLLsSoLoN
    b00mer44
    ...
    Participants:
    Search model icon
    Views: 6466
    Posts: 56
    123 Next Last»
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 17, 2010 - 4:32 PM ET #1

    OK. I took it upon myself to start up a new thread for this season as the old one was getting clogged up and full of animosity. Here, we're gonna keep everything legit and open and try to collectively beat the books.

    If you don't know what sabermetrics are then PLEASE familiarize yourself here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics but basically sabermetrics is the objective application of data to certain instances in the game of baseball. In our case, we are going to try and use sabermetrics to correctly determine SIDES and TOTALS. 

    I'm no expert in this area, in fact, I know close to nothing. But from what I understand, there are hundreds of sabermetric formulas and it is up to us to determine which ones to use and how exactly to apply them. I'm going to list and describe a few of the basic ones and we can get a discussions going on which ones should be included/omitted. Please feel free to add some in or correct me if I'm wrong. I just want to get some positive discussion going as the season is just around the corner.

    Base Runs (BsR)
     is the first formula. It's used to estimate the number of runs a team "should" have scored given their component offensive statistics, as well as the number of runs a hitter/pitcher creates/allows. This is by far one of the most valuable and widely used formula. There is a multiplier that is customizable to any league, date, or other data set... Very useful.  Most sabermetricians say to use lifetime figures for this, but I was thinking of doing a base runs for lifetime, seasonal, and last 10 games and making an average. What do you think?


    On-base plus slugging (OPS)
     is calculated as the sum of a player's on-base percentage and slugging percentage. The ability of a player to both get on base and to hit for power, two important hitting skills, are represented. This makes an especially effective way of measuring the player's offensive worth. It weighs on-base average and slugging percentage equally, although on-base average correlates better with scoring runs so we may need to find a way to account for that but other than that, this could be averaged off with the batting average, the true average, and other similar formulas.

    True Average (TAv) {Formerly Equivalent Average (EqA)} is a metric intended to express the production of hitters in a context independent of park and league effects. This shows a hitter's pure skill. 

    Defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS) ERA measure a pitcher's effectiveness based only on plays that do not involve fielders: home runs allowed, strikeouts, hit batters, walks, fly ball percentage, ground ball percentage, and (to a lesser extent) line drive percentage. Those plays are under only the pitcher's control in the sense that fielders have no effect on their outcome. This can be averaged with the normal ERA or even combined with individual defensive metrics...??

    Peripheral ERA (PERA) It's a pitching statistic that computes the expected ERA, taking into account park-adjusted hits, walks, strikeouts and home runs allowed. Very good when in use with the TAv.

    Secondary average (SecA) is a sabermetric measurement of hitting performance. It is a complement to the batting average, which is a simple ratio of base hits to at bats. Secondary average is a ratio of bases gained from other sources (extra base hits, walks, and net bases) to at bats. Always good to have a second opinion!

    A late-inning pressure situation (LIPS) is a baseball statistic developed to determine if clutch hitters exist. We could use this to determine how often a home teams uses their last 3 bottom-half innings to turn the game around and win the game or push the total.

    Speed Score determines a team's speed based on it's players. It includes five factors: stolen base percentage, stolen base attempts as a percentage of opportunities, triples, double plays grounded into as a percentage of opportunities, and runs scored as a percentage of times on base. Some feel that speed doesn't play a part in baseball but it most certainly does. It's always nice to bet on an athletic and speedy team, they're never out of it.

    Batting average on balls in play (BABIP) It's the frequency of which a batter reaches a base after putting the ball in the field of play. For pitchers (a measure of the hitters they face), it's a good measure of luck. So pitchers with high or low BABIPs are good bets to see their performances adjust to the mean.

    Defensive efficiency (Def Eff) It's the rate at which balls put into play are converted into outs by a team's defense. Can be approximated with (1 - BABIP).

    Pythagorean expectation: It's a formula that resembles the mathematical Pythagorean theorem and is used to estimate how many games a baseball team should have won, based on how many runs a team scored and allowed. Comparing the two percentages can determine how lucky or clutch a team was.

    Walks and hits per inning pitched (WHIP) It's the average number of walks and hits allowed by the pitcher per inning. (BB + H divided by IP).

    Extrapolated runs (XR)E is similar to runs created, except it assigns a run value to each event, rather than a multiplicative formula.

    Quality start (QS) A game in which a pitcher completes six innings, allowing no more than three runs. Good stat to record and keep track of.

    Lets try to develop a comprehensive formula using these and other sabermetrics so we can start tracking, baseball is weeks away and I want some winners!
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    OK. I took it upon myself to start up a new thread for this season as the old one was getting clogged up and full of animosity. Here, we're gonna keep everything legit and open and try to collectively beat the books.

    If you don't know what sabermetrics are then PLEASE familiarize yourself here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics but basically sabermetrics is the objective application of data to certain instances in the game of baseball. In our case, we are going to try and use sabermetrics to correctly determine SIDES and TOTALS. 

    I'm no expert in this area, in fact, I know close to nothing. But from what I understand, there are hundreds of sabermetric formulas and it is up to us to determine which ones to use and how exactly to apply them. I'm going to list and describe a few of the basic ones and we can get a discussions going on which ones should be included/omitted. Please feel free to add some in or correct me if I'm wrong. I just want to get some positive discussion going as the season is just around the corner.

    Base Runs (BsR)
     is the first formula. It's used to estimate the number of runs a team "should" have scored given their component offensive statistics, as well as the number of runs a hitter/pitcher creates/allows. This is by far one of the most valuable and widely used formula. There is a multiplier that is customizable to any league, date, or other data set... Very useful.  Most sabermetricians say to use lifetime figures for this, but I was thinking of doing a base runs for lifetime, seasonal, and last 10 games and making an average. What do you think?


    On-base plus slugging (OPS)
     is calculated as the sum of a player's on-base percentage and slugging percentage. The ability of a player to both get on base and to hit for power, two important hitting skills, are represented. This makes an especially effective way of measuring the player's offensive worth. It weighs on-base average and slugging percentage equally, although on-base average correlates better with scoring runs so we may need to find a way to account for that but other than that, this could be averaged off with the batting average, the true average, and other similar formulas.

    True Average (TAv) {Formerly Equivalent Average (EqA)} is a metric intended to express the production of hitters in a context independent of park and league effects. This shows a hitter's pure skill. 

    Defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS) ERA measure a pitcher's effectiveness based only on plays that do not involve fielders: home runs allowed, strikeouts, hit batters, walks, fly ball percentage, ground ball percentage, and (to a lesser extent) line drive percentage. Those plays are under only the pitcher's control in the sense that fielders have no effect on their outcome. This can be averaged with the normal ERA or even combined with individual defensive metrics...??

    Peripheral ERA (PERA) It's a pitching statistic that computes the expected ERA, taking into account park-adjusted hits, walks, strikeouts and home runs allowed. Very good when in use with the TAv.

    Secondary average (SecA) is a sabermetric measurement of hitting performance. It is a complement to the batting average, which is a simple ratio of base hits to at bats. Secondary average is a ratio of bases gained from other sources (extra base hits, walks, and net bases) to at bats. Always good to have a second opinion!

    A late-inning pressure situation (LIPS) is a baseball statistic developed to determine if clutch hitters exist. We could use this to determine how often a home teams uses their last 3 bottom-half innings to turn the game around and win the game or push the total.

    Speed Score determines a team's speed based on it's players. It includes five factors: stolen base percentage, stolen base attempts as a percentage of opportunities, triples, double plays grounded into as a percentage of opportunities, and runs scored as a percentage of times on base. Some feel that speed doesn't play a part in baseball but it most certainly does. It's always nice to bet on an athletic and speedy team, they're never out of it.

    Batting average on balls in play (BABIP) It's the frequency of which a batter reaches a base after putting the ball in the field of play. For pitchers (a measure of the hitters they face), it's a good measure of luck. So pitchers with high or low BABIPs are good bets to see their performances adjust to the mean.

    Defensive efficiency (Def Eff) It's the rate at which balls put into play are converted into outs by a team's defense. Can be approximated with (1 - BABIP).

    Pythagorean expectation: It's a formula that resembles the mathematical Pythagorean theorem and is used to estimate how many games a baseball team should have won, based on how many runs a team scored and allowed. Comparing the two percentages can determine how lucky or clutch a team was.

    Walks and hits per inning pitched (WHIP) It's the average number of walks and hits allowed by the pitcher per inning. (BB + H divided by IP).

    Extrapolated runs (XR)E is similar to runs created, except it assigns a run value to each event, rather than a multiplicative formula.

    Quality start (QS) A game in which a pitcher completes six innings, allowing no more than three runs. Good stat to record and keep track of.

    Lets try to develop a comprehensive formula using these and other sabermetrics so we can start tracking, baseball is weeks away and I want some winners!
     
    Ktrain
    Ktrain
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Oct, 2009
    Posts: 6580
    Posted: Mar. 18, 2010 - 7:44 PM ET #2

    I hope this thread is a success DJ. Best of luck.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I hope this thread is a success DJ. Best of luck.
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 2:09 AM ET #3

    Thanks ktrain, I hope this thread is a success as well! haha I'm just here to learn and help when I can. I want us all to get that little extra help we need to grab those units.

    I would love for some real sabermetricians to come in and show me whats up but since no one has taken interest, I'm going to go ahead and get my feet wet. I whipped up a spreadsheet to determine a modified BsR and here are the best plays:

    Fri 3/19/2010 

    Sides:
    D-Backs -133
    Mets -128
    Brewers -115
    Mariners +114


    Totals:
    Jays/Astros OVER
    Dodgers/Padres UNDER
    Athletics/Rockies OVER
    Red Sox/Pirates UNDER


    - Remember this is only a test, and I myself will not even be playing these yet, just tracking them.
    - I know totals aren't available in Spring ball but it's good to get an idea early.
    - Plays are listed in order of strength, but unless otherwise noted, all plays are 1 unit.
    - PLEASE contribute!
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Thanks ktrain, I hope this thread is a success as well! haha I'm just here to learn and help when I can. I want us all to get that little extra help we need to grab those units.

    I would love for some real sabermetricians to come in and show me whats up but since no one has taken interest, I'm going to go ahead and get my feet wet. I whipped up a spreadsheet to determine a modified BsR and here are the best plays:

    Fri 3/19/2010 

    Sides:
    D-Backs -133
    Mets -128
    Brewers -115
    Mariners +114


    Totals:
    Jays/Astros OVER
    Dodgers/Padres UNDER
    Athletics/Rockies OVER
    Red Sox/Pirates UNDER


    - Remember this is only a test, and I myself will not even be playing these yet, just tracking them.
    - I know totals aren't available in Spring ball but it's good to get an idea early.
    - Plays are listed in order of strength, but unless otherwise noted, all plays are 1 unit.
    - PLEASE contribute!
     
    michael-5
    michael-5
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 12
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 11:34 AM ET #4

    Base Runs (BsR):  Is this for a whole team or do you do each player individually? I used the formula from the wikipedia link with last years stats for a just one team to see where it would end up. I got a ridiculously high number. 

    Where are you getting the stats to fill in the formula?  

    I was looking at https://www.baseball-reference.com/, but all I could find was last years numbers. Are you using spring training numbers?
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Base Runs (BsR):  Is this for a whole team or do you do each player individually? I used the formula from the wikipedia link with last years stats for a just one team to see where it would end up. I got a ridiculously high number. 

    Where are you getting the stats to fill in the formula?  

    I was looking at https://www.baseball-reference.com/, but all I could find was last years numbers. Are you using spring training numbers?
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 11:41 AM ET #5

    I'm doing it for the whole team as sabermetricians say the formula doesn't work as well for individual hitters... and it would be super time consuming.

    I started with the wikipedia link and did a few adjustments... Still working on a few coefficients... trying to determine applicability. 

    I'm getting them from MLB.com, though I'm sure i'll need to expand and vary my sources of data/information as we get deeper into metrics.

    I'm using Spring training numbers... didn't want to go off last season as it largely has nothing to do with this season's Spring training.

    Have you ever tried anything other than BsR?
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I'm doing it for the whole team as sabermetricians say the formula doesn't work as well for individual hitters... and it would be super time consuming.

    I started with the wikipedia link and did a few adjustments... Still working on a few coefficients... trying to determine applicability. 

    I'm getting them from MLB.com, though I'm sure i'll need to expand and vary my sources of data/information as we get deeper into metrics.

    I'm using Spring training numbers... didn't want to go off last season as it largely has nothing to do with this season's Spring training.

    Have you ever tried anything other than BsR?
     
    michael-5
    michael-5
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 12
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 12:03 PM ET #6

    Not yet. I will have to do more though. 

    The BsR sounds good, but do you think it would be worth figuring that into how a team does against a specific pitcher / bullpen? It might be useless, but a starting pitcher and the ranking of a bullpen seem important. 
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Not yet. I will have to do more though. 

    The BsR sounds good, but do you think it would be worth figuring that into how a team does against a specific pitcher / bullpen? It might be useless, but a starting pitcher and the ranking of a bullpen seem important. 
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 2:11 PM ET #7

    Perfect. Let's work with that. BsR is concentrated too much on the offence and not enough on the respective defense, specifically the pitcher. 

    Therefore, FIRST we need to figure out to best account for pitchers and bullpens. SECOND, we need to apply that to our BsR.

    I feel the best way (to my knowledge) of evaluating a pitcher using metrics would be an average of some or all of the following, we just need to pick:

    ERA - Pretty obvious, number one stat for comparing pitchers.
    DIPS ERA - Excludes defense and concentrates on pure pitching.
    PERA - Not too sure about this one as it seems very similar to the DIPS ERA.
    Quality Starts - This may not seem as important... but we have to remember that we should be doing whatever calculations that we do for the starting pitcher, for ALL expected pitchers (middle/relief). This is time consuming, and expected relief pitchers are less accurate that expected starting pitchers as we don't know when they will come in to play (if at all) and for how long..... So I'm thinking we only bet on games where we have a higher chance of a quality start because if a pitcher has a high rate of quality starts, we can safely assume our Pitching Formula will be more accurate as the starting pitcher will likely be in longer.

    If we're going to include pitching statistics, we should add defense statistics and more batting statistics. Trying to watch these NCAA games though so I'll try and crunch some numbers as I watch... but it's definitely going to be tough...

    My first idea was something like ERA+DIPS*(%of QS+1)
    Then I realized DIPS is super complicated so I'll just use DICE for now (a very similar stat). I'll do the Jays/Astros game:

    Jays - Register (Made up 75 quality start percent)
    =ERA+DICE*(%of QS+1)
    = 2.25+1.00*(.75+1)
    = 5.6875

    Astros - Banks (Made up 50 quality start percent)
    =ERA+DICE*(%of QS+1)
    = 4.15+1.18*(.50+1)
    = 7.995

    Formula now looks like this:

    ={{A*[B/(B+C)]+D}/(1/X)} /100

    *where:
    X = our newly found Pitcher Coefficient.
    A = H + BB-  HR
    B = [1.4*TB - 0.6*H -3*HR + 0.1*BB]*1.02
    C = AB-H
    D = HR

    I know I couldn't have made it more complicated but you could just plug this all into excel pretty easily. I used the colours of the rainbow to signify the order of operations lol just in case.

    This new addition to the formula worked out to the follow changes (below) in run predictions. I know the first ones seem a bit off but I was simply using them on a bell curve basis (take the highest differences). By adding the pitchers, it will definitely give us a better look but without proper stats (due to it being Spring), it's very hard to get a good scope on anything.

    Astros: 8.48 --> 4.82
    Jays: 8.93 --> 7.14
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Perfect. Let's work with that. BsR is concentrated too much on the offence and not enough on the respective defense, specifically the pitcher. 

    Therefore, FIRST we need to figure out to best account for pitchers and bullpens. SECOND, we need to apply that to our BsR.

    I feel the best way (to my knowledge) of evaluating a pitcher using metrics would be an average of some or all of the following, we just need to pick:

    ERA - Pretty obvious, number one stat for comparing pitchers.
    DIPS ERA - Excludes defense and concentrates on pure pitching.
    PERA - Not too sure about this one as it seems very similar to the DIPS ERA.
    Quality Starts - This may not seem as important... but we have to remember that we should be doing whatever calculations that we do for the starting pitcher, for ALL expected pitchers (middle/relief). This is time consuming, and expected relief pitchers are less accurate that expected starting pitchers as we don't know when they will come in to play (if at all) and for how long..... So I'm thinking we only bet on games where we have a higher chance of a quality start because if a pitcher has a high rate of quality starts, we can safely assume our Pitching Formula will be more accurate as the starting pitcher will likely be in longer.

    If we're going to include pitching statistics, we should add defense statistics and more batting statistics. Trying to watch these NCAA games though so I'll try and crunch some numbers as I watch... but it's definitely going to be tough...

    My first idea was something like ERA+DIPS*(%of QS+1)
    Then I realized DIPS is super complicated so I'll just use DICE for now (a very similar stat). I'll do the Jays/Astros game:

    Jays - Register (Made up 75 quality start percent)
    =ERA+DICE*(%of QS+1)
    = 2.25+1.00*(.75+1)
    = 5.6875

    Astros - Banks (Made up 50 quality start percent)
    =ERA+DICE*(%of QS+1)
    = 4.15+1.18*(.50+1)
    = 7.995

    Formula now looks like this:

    ={{A*[B/(B+C)]+D}/(1/X)} /100

    *where:
    X = our newly found Pitcher Coefficient.
    A = H + BB-  HR
    B = [1.4*TB - 0.6*H -3*HR + 0.1*BB]*1.02
    C = AB-H
    D = HR

    I know I couldn't have made it more complicated but you could just plug this all into excel pretty easily. I used the colours of the rainbow to signify the order of operations lol just in case.

    This new addition to the formula worked out to the follow changes (below) in run predictions. I know the first ones seem a bit off but I was simply using them on a bell curve basis (take the highest differences). By adding the pitchers, it will definitely give us a better look but without proper stats (due to it being Spring), it's very hard to get a good scope on anything.

    Astros: 8.48 --> 4.82
    Jays: 8.93 --> 7.14
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 2:15 PM ET #8

    In fact... from the time I started crunching those numbers to now, there has been several pitching changes. So these numbers aren't really going to tell us anything. I just wanted to get my feet wet, get a formula on paper, and work from there.

    I'm still committed to testing this over the first 20 games of the season to build up some reliable numbers... So you can count this as practice, tweaking, experimenting, whatever you want....  Just remember nothing will be final or for sure until we get finished testing in regular season. 
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    In fact... from the time I started crunching those numbers to now, there has been several pitching changes. So these numbers aren't really going to tell us anything. I just wanted to get my feet wet, get a formula on paper, and work from there.

    I'm still committed to testing this over the first 20 games of the season to build up some reliable numbers... So you can count this as practice, tweaking, experimenting, whatever you want....  Just remember nothing will be final or for sure until we get finished testing in regular season. 
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 4:02 PM ET #9

    I've reduced my stance in thinking that we can really not progress nor regress with Spring Training ball because it has so little bearing in the regular season and is so chaotic. I'm still fine with finding the best formula now but I'm not going to post any picks cause they'll just be random guesses at best lol.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I've reduced my stance in thinking that we can really not progress nor regress with Spring Training ball because it has so little bearing in the regular season and is so chaotic. I'm still fine with finding the best formula now but I'm not going to post any picks cause they'll just be random guesses at best lol.
     
    SKiLLsSoLoN
    SKiLLsSoLoN
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Sep, 2009
    Posts: 144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 4:32 PM ET #10

    Where you getting this DICE stat from??
    Seems like covers has most of the pitchers from 2009 and i can find all but BB because how do you pick the a batter (so would you use the team avg here?)


    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Where you getting this DICE stat from??
    Seems like covers has most of the pitchers from 2009 and i can find all but BB because how do you pick the a batter (so would you use the team avg here?)


     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 19, 2010 - 4:54 PM ET #11

    DICE requires a formula. Here it is:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense-Independent_Component_ERA

    ={{A*[B/(B+C)]+D}/(1/X)} /100

    X = (ERA+DICE)*(QS/S+1)
    A = H + BB-  HR
    B = [1.4*TB - 0.6*H -3*HR + 0.1*BB]*1.02
    C = AB-H
    D = HR

    With the exception of the DICE and maybe QS, the rest of those stats are easy to find. Go to MLB.com > Stats > Sortable Team Stats
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    DICE requires a formula. Here it is:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense-Independent_Component_ERA

    ={{A*[B/(B+C)]+D}/(1/X)} /100

    X = (ERA+DICE)*(QS/S+1)
    A = H + BB-  HR
    B = [1.4*TB - 0.6*H -3*HR + 0.1*BB]*1.02
    C = AB-H
    D = HR

    With the exception of the DICE and maybe QS, the rest of those stats are easy to find. Go to MLB.com > Stats > Sortable Team Stats
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 20, 2010 - 4:34 PM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by dj_destroyer:

     

    Fri 3/19/2010 

    Sides:
    D-Backs -133
    Mets -128
    Brewers -115
    Mariners +114


    Totals:
    Jays/Astros OVER
    Dodgers/Padres UNDER
    Athletics/Rockies OVER
    Red Sox/Pirates UNDER

     


    The system goes an amazing 0-8 lol... I know that seems awful but it's actually pretty good. If we could predict losers at this rate, we'd be rich! All I need to do is use the inverse coefficient... Still, I feel as if Spring training is way too random to use with sabermetrics so I'm officially going to wait until the regular season.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Quote Originally Posted by dj_destroyer:

     

    Fri 3/19/2010 

    Sides:
    D-Backs -133
    Mets -128
    Brewers -115
    Mariners +114


    Totals:
    Jays/Astros OVER
    Dodgers/Padres UNDER
    Athletics/Rockies OVER
    Red Sox/Pirates UNDER

     


    The system goes an amazing 0-8 lol... I know that seems awful but it's actually pretty good. If we could predict losers at this rate, we'd be rich! All I need to do is use the inverse coefficient... Still, I feel as if Spring training is way too random to use with sabermetrics so I'm officially going to wait until the regular season.
     
    b00mer44
    b00mer44
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2009
    Posts: 23
    Posted: Mar. 21, 2010 - 5:24 PM ET #13

    you're suppose to take the CAREER stats of players. if your using stats of a single season then you're doing it wrong. if you're only taking spring training stats then your definitely doing it wrong
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    you're suppose to take the CAREER stats of players. if your using stats of a single season then you're doing it wrong. if you're only taking spring training stats then your definitely doing it wrong
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 22, 2010 - 12:23 AM ET #14

    It is important to note that the formulas above are intended to estimate runs scored and allowed by teams, not individual players.

    Therefore one should use team totals, not individual stats. I know that you're suppose to take career but as I've said before, I want to do an average of three estimates using data from career, season, and the last 10 games. I think this will provide the most precise prediction. Thanks for your input.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    It is important to note that the formulas above are intended to estimate runs scored and allowed by teams, not individual players.

    Therefore one should use team totals, not individual stats. I know that you're suppose to take career but as I've said before, I want to do an average of three estimates using data from career, season, and the last 10 games. I think this will provide the most precise prediction. Thanks for your input.
     
    Call82
    Call82
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2007
    Posts: 1107
    Posted: Mar. 22, 2010 - 7:02 AM ET #15

    Hey DJ, its great that you keep this topic alive, I am really interested in sabers but didnt find the time to look into the details yet...

     

    Good luck man...

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Hey DJ, its great that you keep this topic alive, I am really interested in sabers but didnt find the time to look into the details yet...

     

    Good luck man...

     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 22, 2010 - 11:03 AM ET #16

    I will be in here everyday during the Summer, I'm sure. Hope to see you around Call82! 
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I will be in here everyday during the Summer, I'm sure. Hope to see you around Call82! 
     
    butta01
    butta01
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2008
    Posts: 2256
    Posted: Mar. 22, 2010 - 11:51 AM ET #17

    I was trying this earlier with spring training,but because there is not much info on the games it doesn't make any sense so i will wait until the season starts.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    I was trying this earlier with spring training,but because there is not much info on the games it doesn't make any sense so i will wait until the season starts.
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 22, 2010 - 12:51 PM ET #18

    Agreed.  I don't mind taking the first 20 or 30 games as a test period... Although knowing me, I'll still bet a bit on the early projections. 
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Agreed.  I don't mind taking the first 20 or 30 games as a test period... Although knowing me, I'll still bet a bit on the early projections. 
     
    JiOaHmN007
    JiOaHmN007
    Prospect
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Feb, 2010
    Posts: 365
    Posted: Mar. 23, 2010 - 12:33 AM ET #19

    Great thread !!

    I admire youth youthful enthusiasm, HONESTLY !

    I am hugely into devising MATHEMATICAL formulas to predict outcomes. Math has always been a forte of mine and I love crunching numbers and looking for trends, etc. The best part of handicapping with math is that you eliminate subjectivity from your analysis. You either come up with an equation that works or you don't.

    I was you 35 years ago; my suggestion is to crunch numbers like crazy and try to establish a formula while you have the time (and patience), and OPTIMISM NOW. At my current age (60), I no longer have the patience to find the "winning formula" ... as I did way back when. I intend to follow your input and make suggestions along the way.

    I bought the original sabermetric book back around 1980 or so - "The Bill James Baseball Abstract". Bill James now works in a sabermetric capacity for the Red Sox. His formulas influence a lot of the Red Sox' decisions regarding players, as well as in game strategy. For example, the Red Sox don't believe in advancing runners with sacrifice bunts, because you might be killing a multiple run inning while you play for one run; and one run is not a safe lead in Fenway Park.

    Check Amazon out and try to get a copy of "Abstract" books. They are literally FILLED with the same type of brain-storming ideas and equations as you are attempting to do here.

    BEST OF LUCK !!

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    Great thread !!

    I admire youth youthful enthusiasm, HONESTLY !

    I am hugely into devising MATHEMATICAL formulas to predict outcomes. Math has always been a forte of mine and I love crunching numbers and looking for trends, etc. The best part of handicapping with math is that you eliminate subjectivity from your analysis. You either come up with an equation that works or you don't.

    I was you 35 years ago; my suggestion is to crunch numbers like crazy and try to establish a formula while you have the time (and patience), and OPTIMISM NOW. At my current age (60), I no longer have the patience to find the "winning formula" ... as I did way back when. I intend to follow your input and make suggestions along the way.

    I bought the original sabermetric book back around 1980 or so - "The Bill James Baseball Abstract". Bill James now works in a sabermetric capacity for the Red Sox. His formulas influence a lot of the Red Sox' decisions regarding players, as well as in game strategy. For example, the Red Sox don't believe in advancing runners with sacrifice bunts, because you might be killing a multiple run inning while you play for one run; and one run is not a safe lead in Fenway Park.

    Check Amazon out and try to get a copy of "Abstract" books. They are literally FILLED with the same type of brain-storming ideas and equations as you are attempting to do here.

    BEST OF LUCK !!

     
    K4ngur13
    K4ngur13
    Hall of Fame
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2009
    Posts: 26212
    Posted: Mar. 23, 2010 - 8:44 PM ET #20

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 24, 2010 - 5:09 PM ET #21

    Hope you'll be around to answer some questions, JiOaHmN007.

    Starting to get excited about the regular season as ST has been treating the wallet very well.
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Hope you'll be around to answer some questions, JiOaHmN007.

    Starting to get excited about the regular season as ST has been treating the wallet very well.
     
    avenue
    avenue
    Captain
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Jan, 2010
    Posts: 7615
    Posted: Mar. 24, 2010 - 5:36 PM ET #22

    ST?
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    ST?
     
    dj_destroyer
    dj_destroyer
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Mar, 2009
    Posts: 3144
    Posted: Mar. 24, 2010 - 7:33 PM ET #23

    Spring Training
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Spring Training
     
    TheThinker
    TheThinker
    Banned
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Aug, 2009
    Posts: 1245
    Posted: Mar. 25, 2010 - 12:21 PM ET #24

    love the thread...

    ive done alot of work in the mathmatics field, as it applies to sports handicapping.

    look forward to jumping in along the way.

    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User

    love the thread...

    ive done alot of work in the mathmatics field, as it applies to sports handicapping.

    look forward to jumping in along the way.

     
     
    kreatture
    kreatture
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: May, 2009
    Posts: 2312
    Posted: Mar. 27, 2010 - 10:42 PM ET #25

    Good Luck this season guys. I'm sure you all ready have a good understanding of what you are doing here, but for new guys wanting to get their feet wet, here is a nice article which outlines several Sabermetric approaches, and also includes complete formulas with helpful real-stat examples. Some of these approaches are listed in DJ's 1st post in this thread.

    You can also click on the categories highlighted in red to go to an individual page devoted just to that approach, which breaks it down in much greater detail.

    It's a lot to take in and you can easily become overwhelmed quickly. Try to break down each section and create your own notes on the ones you think would be useful. I found the DIPS ERA to be an interesting read, especially once you click the red heading and read the in-depth page.

    Even tho it's still Spring Training, you should become familiar with the formulas you want to use for the regular season, and do a number of examples yourself so once the Season begins, you'll be able to run these much quicker.

    SABERMETRICS PITCHING -- https://ownersedge.fanball.com/article/2010/3/Sabermetrics-Glossary-Pitching

    SABERMETRICS HITTING -- https://ownersedge.fanball.com/article/2010/3/Sabermetrics-Glossary-Hitting

    Hopefully someone will find something useful in all of that.

    Cheers
    Reply
    Quote Post
    0
    Report User
    Good Luck this season guys. I'm sure you all ready have a good understanding of what you are doing here, but for new guys wanting to get their feet wet, here is a nice article which outlines several Sabermetric approaches, and also includes complete formulas with helpful real-stat examples. Some of these approaches are listed in DJ's 1st post in this thread.

    You can also click on the categories highlighted in red to go to an individual page devoted just to that approach, which breaks it down in much greater detail.

    It's a lot to take in and you can easily become overwhelmed quickly. Try to break down each section and create your own notes on the ones you think would be useful. I found the DIPS ERA to be an interesting read, especially once you click the red heading and read the in-depth page.

    Even tho it's still Spring Training, you should become familiar with the formulas you want to use for the regular season, and do a number of examples yourself so once the Season begins, you'll be able to run these much quicker.

    SABERMETRICS PITCHING -- https://ownersedge.fanball.com/article/2010/3/Sabermetrics-Glossary-Pitching

    SABERMETRICS HITTING -- https://ownersedge.fanball.com/article/2010/3/Sabermetrics-Glossary-Hitting

    Hopefully someone will find something useful in all of that.

    Cheers
    All Forums | Systems & Strategies
    123 Next Last»

    Hot Forums IconHot Forum Topics

    • 🤢🥴💩_ Fubah's risky baseball bets _🥶😲🥵 445,784 Covers arrow
    • Tuesday 09/08/2026 977 Covers arrow
    • 🏈🏈🏈 Fubah2's risky CFB bets 253,244 Covers arrow
    • Couple thoughts 3,954 Covers arrow
    • 9/8 POD 🔥🔥???? 3,448 Covers arrow
    • Tuesday 2,830 Covers arrow
    • Breathtaking ....truly 20,479 Covers arrow
    • We have picked a terrible time to have the stupidest president ever 26,699 Covers arrow
    • Obviously the true face of the republican party 30,558 Covers arrow
    • PART DEUX 215 Covers arrow

    Warning - External Link

    Report User

    Thank you for reporting
    This content is abusive or harmful
    This post is spam
    An error has occurred
    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

    Delete Post

    Are you sure you would like to remove this post?

    Remove Thread

    Are you sure you would like to remove this thread?

    Scan Results

    Login/Register

    Happy to have you join the conversation. To do so, please login or create an account.
    Accounts are free and easy to create.

    Search


    Loading…

    Loading…

    About Us
    Contact Us
    Careers
    Our Team
    Brand
    Testimonials
    Betting Guides
    Sportsbook Reviews
    Betting News
    Podcasts
    Responsible Gambling
    Betting Sites
    US Betting Sites
    Canada Betting Sites
    Canada Casinos
    Best Betting Apps
    Contests
    Streak Survivor
    King of Covers
    Ultimate Race
    Office Pools
    The Covers community has
    810,221
    lifetime members worldwide
    Join our community today
    Covers 30 Years Logo Established in 1995,
    Covers is the world
    leader in sports
    betting information.
    21+
    Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
    Help Privacy Terms of Service Cookies Sitemap Forum
    YouTube logo
    Facebook logo
    Twitter logo
    Instagram logo
    LinkedIn logo
    Google News logo
    Covers is verified safe by:
    Evalon Logo Logo GPWA Logo GDPR logo Logo GeoTrust logo Logo PCI DSS logo Logo
    Copyright © 1995 - 2026 CS Media Ltd. All Rights Reserved.
    If you choose to make use of any information on this website including online sports betting services from any websites that may be featured on this website, we strongly recommend that you carefully check your local laws before doing so.It is your sole responsibility to understand your local laws and observe them strictly.Covers does not provide any advice or guidance as to the legality of online sports betting or other online gambling activities within your jurisdiction and you are responsible for complying with laws that are applicable to you in your relevant locality.Covers disclaims all liability associated with your use of this website and use of any information contained on it.As a condition of using this website, you agree to hold the owner of this website harmless from any claims arising from your use of any services on any third party website that may be featured by Covers.