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    All Forums | Tennis

    State of WTA

    12 Next Last»
    JohnnyZ1976
    jvarghese
    sandique
    monkeebooger
    kagakuotoko
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    12 Next Last»
     
    JohnnyZ1976
    JohnnyZ1976
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 12:32 AM ET #1

    What has happened to the quality of the top 20 players in major tournaments  ?  For Wozniacki to take a 3 year hiatus and come back and cruise thru #11 Kvitova like a hot knife thru butter is not a good sign.  Azarenka #18 got smoked earlier.  Krejikova #12 and Vekic #22 got smoked yesterday . For Caroline Garcia to be ranked #7 in the world is a joke.  I know I’m abit salty at the moment since these ladies destroyed my bankroll the last couple days .. but geez this is some bad quality tennis. 

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    What has happened to the quality of the top 20 players in major tournaments  ?  For Wozniacki to take a 3 year hiatus and come back and cruise thru #11 Kvitova like a hot knife thru butter is not a good sign.  Azarenka #18 got smoked earlier.  Krejikova #12 and Vekic #22 got smoked yesterday . For Caroline Garcia to be ranked #7 in the world is a joke.  I know I’m abit salty at the moment since these ladies destroyed my bankroll the last couple days .. but geez this is some bad quality tennis. 

     
    jvarghese
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 2:59 AM ET #2

    I've said it over and over again, don't trust the wta when it comes to high favorites and spreads and MLs.  Only player to trust (in a way), is Iga.

    BTW, why don't you wager on ATP more and stay away from WTA?

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    I've said it over and over again, don't trust the wta when it comes to high favorites and spreads and MLs.  Only player to trust (in a way), is Iga.

    BTW, why don't you wager on ATP more and stay away from WTA?

     
    JohnnyZ1976
    JohnnyZ1976
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 5:18 AM ET #3

    @jvarghese

     IGA just got me a couple weeks ago at cincy losing to Coco. Lol I just have no luck with the ladies .  I do bet ATP also .. but don’t like the 5 set format .. feels like games take half a day. I’m definitely done with the ladies this tournament. Would not be surprised if wozniacki won the whole thing after a 3 year hiatus.  

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    @jvarghese

     IGA just got me a couple weeks ago at cincy losing to Coco. Lol I just have no luck with the ladies .  I do bet ATP also .. but don’t like the 5 set format .. feels like games take half a day. I’m definitely done with the ladies this tournament. Would not be surprised if wozniacki won the whole thing after a 3 year hiatus.  

     
    sandique
    sandique
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 12:38 PM ET #4

    You don't know enough about the WTA. 

     

    1 - Kvitova hates New York. Wozniacki loves it (despite the fact she won her only Slam title at the AO she made more Slam finals and SF at the USO than any other Slam venue. Flushing Meadows and is self-admittedly her favourite venue).

     

    2 - Hardcourts are Wozniacki's favourite surface, but for Kvitova grass is her favourite, and while the Czech is good on hardcourts (she made an AO final, once, and lost), there's a wide gap between her like for grass and all other surfaces. She has never made it past the QF stage at the USO (and then only made 2 QF in now 16 appearances), but has done so at every other Slam venue.

     

    3 - Losing a match 5-7 6-7 hardly constitutes your opponent having run a "hot knife through your butter".

     

    4 - Th problem with rankings system, is points won the season before affect the ranking of the current season. Women players form can quickly dip between the changing seasons (when rankings points are accrued) and then have a bad year when those ranking points are still alive. In short, you can't just roll up to a bet blind and think the current ranking of a player means what it says it does. it means something about what they did in the past (maybe 10-11 months ago) which is NOT relevant to their recent form. FOOLS bet solely on ranking points, without factoring in the match styles in play (counterpuncher vs counterpuncher? attacking vs attacker? attacker vs counter puncher? and which surface are those 3 different style match-ups playing on? Clay? grass? Hardcourt? What's the temperature at the venue? Wind conditions? Humidity? Does your player - Kvitova - care for the venue she's temporarily residing in?).

    The WTA isn't easy for clowns who think they can roll up, not do the work, and win. Example: fools who like to lose their money back Kvitova at the US Open when she's a favourite against players with hardcourt Slam finals in their past history.

     

    GL to you learning more about the WTA in order to cash in on it.

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    You don't know enough about the WTA. 

     

    1 - Kvitova hates New York. Wozniacki loves it (despite the fact she won her only Slam title at the AO she made more Slam finals and SF at the USO than any other Slam venue. Flushing Meadows and is self-admittedly her favourite venue).

     

    2 - Hardcourts are Wozniacki's favourite surface, but for Kvitova grass is her favourite, and while the Czech is good on hardcourts (she made an AO final, once, and lost), there's a wide gap between her like for grass and all other surfaces. She has never made it past the QF stage at the USO (and then only made 2 QF in now 16 appearances), but has done so at every other Slam venue.

     

    3 - Losing a match 5-7 6-7 hardly constitutes your opponent having run a "hot knife through your butter".

     

    4 - Th problem with rankings system, is points won the season before affect the ranking of the current season. Women players form can quickly dip between the changing seasons (when rankings points are accrued) and then have a bad year when those ranking points are still alive. In short, you can't just roll up to a bet blind and think the current ranking of a player means what it says it does. it means something about what they did in the past (maybe 10-11 months ago) which is NOT relevant to their recent form. FOOLS bet solely on ranking points, without factoring in the match styles in play (counterpuncher vs counterpuncher? attacking vs attacker? attacker vs counter puncher? and which surface are those 3 different style match-ups playing on? Clay? grass? Hardcourt? What's the temperature at the venue? Wind conditions? Humidity? Does your player - Kvitova - care for the venue she's temporarily residing in?).

    The WTA isn't easy for clowns who think they can roll up, not do the work, and win. Example: fools who like to lose their money back Kvitova at the US Open when she's a favourite against players with hardcourt Slam finals in their past history.

     

    GL to you learning more about the WTA in order to cash in on it.

     
    monkeebooger
    monkeebooger
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 1:05 PM ET #5

    @sandique

     Nice write up

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    @sandique

     Nice write up

     
    kagakuotoko
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    Posted: Aug. 31, 2023 - 6:36 PM ET #6

    @sandique Gawwwt dayum

    Just a clown... doing clown things
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    @sandique Gawwwt dayum

     
    JohnnyZ1976
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:09 AM ET #7

    @sandique   

    So because Wozniacki loves playing in NY after a 3 year hiatus and only played 3 matches in last 3 years and Kvitova doesn’t like playing in NY .. Taking Kvitova is a stupid bet even though she ranked #11 and has played 40 matches this season . Guess I will just find what  players that love playing in certain cities and surfaces and never lose .. must mean someone playing a tournament in their home country must never lose ?!  This sounds too Easy .. can’t wait to start printing money ! 

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    @sandique   

    So because Wozniacki loves playing in NY after a 3 year hiatus and only played 3 matches in last 3 years and Kvitova doesn’t like playing in NY .. Taking Kvitova is a stupid bet even though she ranked #11 and has played 40 matches this season . Guess I will just find what  players that love playing in certain cities and surfaces and never lose .. must mean someone playing a tournament in their home country must never lose ?!  This sounds too Easy .. can’t wait to start printing money ! 

     
    jvarghese
    jvarghese
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 3:29 AM ET #8

    @sandique

     Damnnnnnn Sandique went in deep!!!  an_popcorn

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    @sandique

     Damnnnnnn Sandique went in deep!!!  an_popcorn

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 10:10 AM ET #9

    @JohnnyZ1976

     Typical ignorant response.

     

    Yes, taking Kvitova in NYK as a fave against former hardcourt slam winners is a stupid bet. You're waayyy too fixated on Wozniacki's short time away and clearly in love with the idea of rankings, which are basically meaningless except for the top 5. Justine Henin won her first grand slam entered after 2 years away from the tour with no prep time behind her, and that was at a time the tour was far deeper than it is now. This is the WTA, not the ATP. And I didn't say Kvitova DIDN'T LIKE playing in NYK. I said she HATES the place. There's a significant difference between the two attitudes. In a place you hate, you can't ait to get out of it soon enough. Typical ignorant response. I never said this was easy, precisely the opposite. The work needed to be done to learn the nuances of what makes for a good bet is not easy, it's hard. Keep whining, while those who have done the work keep winning more than they lose.

     

     

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    @JohnnyZ1976

     Typical ignorant response.

     

    Yes, taking Kvitova in NYK as a fave against former hardcourt slam winners is a stupid bet. You're waayyy too fixated on Wozniacki's short time away and clearly in love with the idea of rankings, which are basically meaningless except for the top 5. Justine Henin won her first grand slam entered after 2 years away from the tour with no prep time behind her, and that was at a time the tour was far deeper than it is now. This is the WTA, not the ATP. And I didn't say Kvitova DIDN'T LIKE playing in NYK. I said she HATES the place. There's a significant difference between the two attitudes. In a place you hate, you can't ait to get out of it soon enough. Typical ignorant response. I never said this was easy, precisely the opposite. The work needed to be done to learn the nuances of what makes for a good bet is not easy, it's hard. Keep whining, while those who have done the work keep winning more than they lose.

     

     

     
    sandique
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 10:12 AM ET #10

    @sandique

     Excuse me, Henin make a Slam final after 2 years away, but she didn't win it (the 2010 AO).

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    @sandique

     Excuse me, Henin make a Slam final after 2 years away, but she didn't win it (the 2010 AO).

     
    sandique
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 11:17 AM ET #11

    I can see how my tone of my previous responses have been unduly harsh, that would be because it's a bugbear of mine of those who quickly call the WTA a lottery after they bet on things they think should be sure bets because of surface factors (obviously the case here) , and thus write the sport off as a lottery.

     

    So I'm going to reprise my last response and craft it with edification in mind, rather than umbrage.

     

    1 - Kvitova is an attacking player, Wozniacki is a counterpuncher (a counterpuncher thrives on long rallies wearing down their opponent and either forcing errors first or forcing a poor return that can then be hit for an easy non-risk winner). Kvitova usually isn't interested in getting involved in long rallies, she seeks to hit a winner whenever there's even the slightest opening to. If she's invested in going deep in a tournament, then she can rally with the best of them and thus she'll show more patience, but at a venue she doesn't care for she's not going to be patient enough to wait for the RIGHT ball to hit for a winner, she's going to go for it as soon as she can even to the wrong ball. That leads to her hitting a lot of unforced errors which is what naturally leads to her poor results. So when she faces a capable counterpuncher like Woznaicki at a venue she doesn't care for at all, that means she's in trouble unless she finds a purple patch of form and simply has a day where all but everything she goes for hits the lines.

    Kvitova's winner vs UE count was 38 v 40. That's -2 pts.

    Wozniacki's winner vs UE count was 22 v 13. That's +9 pts.

    At an aggregate, that's a total of +11 pts in Wozniacki's favor. 11 pts is basically 3 games. That's how many more games she won than Kvitova did: 14 vs 11 (7-5 7-6).

    Notice the difference in UE: a whopping +27 in favor of Wozniacki. This match was decided on Kvitova's unwillingness to engage in lengthy rallies. Unforced errors, need it be said, are not forced errors. They're balls she had no excuse for not getting back in play.

     

    2 - Time away from the game. Wozniacki announced her decision to return to the WTA at the end of June. Besides keeping her fitness and tennis skills in shape since retiring, that's basically 2 months she's had to dedicate herself fulltime to getting up to speed. Part of her decision return must've been seeing the tour depth beyond the top 5 players as being weak enough for her to be able maybe claim another Slam title or two, esp. on her fave surface. And no doubt her knowledge of Justine Henin's gambit back in 2010 also played a role. Significantly both are former #1 ranked players, these aren't journeywomen returning to the tour after time off (like Vera Zvonareva: God knows why she decided to return after almost 3 years away, her capacity to sddo anything doesn't come near Wozniacki's).

     

    3 - WTA bets are predicated on odds. I'm not saying never bet Kvitova against a former hardcourt champion or even a capable hardcourt player, nor am I saying she cannot beat these players. I said you don't take her as a favourite against them at NYK. A very specific recommendation. In the past I only ever look to bet against Kvitova at NYK, because her record elsewhere always meant she was pretty much a fave most times. Now had she been paying +150 against Wozniacki, then things would've been different. Then there's value for the possibility that she has a day where her attempted winners find the lines even if she's going for them off the wrong return balls because of impatience. But she's never paying that much in a match like this, so such a consideration never got to exist. 

    ...continued... 

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    I can see how my tone of my previous responses have been unduly harsh, that would be because it's a bugbear of mine of those who quickly call the WTA a lottery after they bet on things they think should be sure bets because of surface factors (obviously the case here) , and thus write the sport off as a lottery.

     

    So I'm going to reprise my last response and craft it with edification in mind, rather than umbrage.

     

    1 - Kvitova is an attacking player, Wozniacki is a counterpuncher (a counterpuncher thrives on long rallies wearing down their opponent and either forcing errors first or forcing a poor return that can then be hit for an easy non-risk winner). Kvitova usually isn't interested in getting involved in long rallies, she seeks to hit a winner whenever there's even the slightest opening to. If she's invested in going deep in a tournament, then she can rally with the best of them and thus she'll show more patience, but at a venue she doesn't care for she's not going to be patient enough to wait for the RIGHT ball to hit for a winner, she's going to go for it as soon as she can even to the wrong ball. That leads to her hitting a lot of unforced errors which is what naturally leads to her poor results. So when she faces a capable counterpuncher like Woznaicki at a venue she doesn't care for at all, that means she's in trouble unless she finds a purple patch of form and simply has a day where all but everything she goes for hits the lines.

    Kvitova's winner vs UE count was 38 v 40. That's -2 pts.

    Wozniacki's winner vs UE count was 22 v 13. That's +9 pts.

    At an aggregate, that's a total of +11 pts in Wozniacki's favor. 11 pts is basically 3 games. That's how many more games she won than Kvitova did: 14 vs 11 (7-5 7-6).

    Notice the difference in UE: a whopping +27 in favor of Wozniacki. This match was decided on Kvitova's unwillingness to engage in lengthy rallies. Unforced errors, need it be said, are not forced errors. They're balls she had no excuse for not getting back in play.

     

    2 - Time away from the game. Wozniacki announced her decision to return to the WTA at the end of June. Besides keeping her fitness and tennis skills in shape since retiring, that's basically 2 months she's had to dedicate herself fulltime to getting up to speed. Part of her decision return must've been seeing the tour depth beyond the top 5 players as being weak enough for her to be able maybe claim another Slam title or two, esp. on her fave surface. And no doubt her knowledge of Justine Henin's gambit back in 2010 also played a role. Significantly both are former #1 ranked players, these aren't journeywomen returning to the tour after time off (like Vera Zvonareva: God knows why she decided to return after almost 3 years away, her capacity to sddo anything doesn't come near Wozniacki's).

     

    3 - WTA bets are predicated on odds. I'm not saying never bet Kvitova against a former hardcourt champion or even a capable hardcourt player, nor am I saying she cannot beat these players. I said you don't take her as a favourite against them at NYK. A very specific recommendation. In the past I only ever look to bet against Kvitova at NYK, because her record elsewhere always meant she was pretty much a fave most times. Now had she been paying +150 against Wozniacki, then things would've been different. Then there's value for the possibility that she has a day where her attempted winners find the lines even if she's going for them off the wrong return balls because of impatience. But she's never paying that much in a match like this, so such a consideration never got to exist. 

    ...continued... 

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 11:23 AM ET #12

    4 - Having just said the WTA is predicated on odds, here's a tip. Bernarda Pera at +400. She's still paying +333. She's worth a bet. I'm not going to go into depth as to why (too many factors & I've spent enough time writing in here) but she's a real chance if Ostapenko isn't on her game (and as the Latvian has never been past the 3R of the USO before, that means history says that today is as good as any for that to be the case). Nobody paying these odds is a sure fire winner, but there's a reason the line has dropped like it has. GL to Pera bettors.

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    4 - Having just said the WTA is predicated on odds, here's a tip. Bernarda Pera at +400. She's still paying +333. She's worth a bet. I'm not going to go into depth as to why (too many factors & I've spent enough time writing in here) but she's a real chance if Ostapenko isn't on her game (and as the Latvian has never been past the 3R of the USO before, that means history says that today is as good as any for that to be the case). Nobody paying these odds is a sure fire winner, but there's a reason the line has dropped like it has. GL to Pera bettors.

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 11:24 AM ET #13

    @sandique

     I got Bernarda Pera at +400.

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    @sandique

     I got Bernarda Pera at +400.

     
    monkeebooger
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 12:00 PM ET #14

    @sandique

     Thanks for the write up peace_5clover

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    @sandique

     Thanks for the write up peace_5clover

     
    SOTA30
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 12:08 PM ET #15

    @sandique

     Terrific insight and appreciate the time spent to share that information.  Good luck with your plays and am interested to see what other plays you like for WTA.

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    @sandique

     Terrific insight and appreciate the time spent to share that information.  Good luck with your plays and am interested to see what other plays you like for WTA.

     
    buttas
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 12:22 PM ET #16

    Bernarda Pera is not beating Jelena Ostapenko straight up. 

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    Bernarda Pera is not beating Jelena Ostapenko straight up. 

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 12:43 PM ET #17

    @buttas

    If Pera ends up advancing to the 4R it will be because Ostapenko beat Ostapenko, not because Pera beat her. If you don't understand how that can easily happen here, you don't know much about Jelena Ostapenko. 

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    @buttas

    If Pera ends up advancing to the 4R it will be because Ostapenko beat Ostapenko, not because Pera beat her. If you don't understand how that can easily happen here, you don't know much about Jelena Ostapenko. 

     
    buttas
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 12:50 PM ET #18

    Fuck it I’ll throw a few sheckles on Pera. BOL

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    Fuck it I’ll throw a few sheckles on Pera. BOL

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 1:14 PM ET #19

    peace_5

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    peace_5

     
    glenjean
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:04 PM ET #20

    @sandique

     excellent explanation

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    @sandique

     excellent explanation

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:14 PM ET #21

    It's early, but Ostapenko is only getting 36% of her 1st serves in, and only winning 33% of her second service pts. That persists for the whole match, and she will not win unless Pera plays like absolute horseshit.

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    It's early, but Ostapenko is only getting 36% of her 1st serves in, and only winning 33% of her second service pts. That persists for the whole match, and she will not win unless Pera plays like absolute horseshit.

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:16 PM ET #22

    Pera's live game total line has risen from the pre-match 8.5 to 10.5 live after only 6 games.

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    Pera's live game total line has risen from the pre-match 8.5 to 10.5 live after only 6 games.

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:27 PM ET #23

    From 3-4 down, Pera's won 11 straight pts for a 5-4, 40-0 lead.

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    From 3-4 down, Pera's won 11 straight pts for a 5-4, 40-0 lead.

     
    sandique
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 2:29 PM ET #24

    1 down, 1 to go.

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    1 down, 1 to go.

     
     
    buttas
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    Posted: Sep. 1, 2023 - 3:12 PM ET #25

    Pera is not winning this match 

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    Pera is not winning this match 

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