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    All Forums | Systems & Strategies

    Converting a chase System into a straight bet system!

    12 Next Last»
    JEFFTHEHAT
    Danrules24
    daytradernation
    da-Genius
    Bart_
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    JEFFTHEHAT
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 1, 2014 - 11:20 PM ET #1

    bDnews got me thinking when he said he's getting a lot of requests for straight bet systems. Why can't you turn a really strong chase system into a straight bet system? 

    A) bets would be a win 
    B) bets would be a win and a loss 
    C) bets would be a win and 2 losses 
    D) bets would be a win and 3 losses
    E) bets would be a win and 4 losses 
    F) bets would be a win and 5 losses

    My system 1 college hoops would be up 10 units instead of 65 but no risk.

    My system 2 college hoops would be -.5 unit not strong enough for conversion.

    My NHL system is +65.4 units instead of 94 but again no risk.

    My greatest system ever 2013 baseball instead of being up 776 units last year is up +260 units but no risk.

    You could also play straight for first 2 bets in my baseball system and then a 4 game chase if haven't hit? So far first 2 games hitting in the mid 80's% wise. 

    Comment are welcome I think this might take the pressure off guys with smaller rolls or who aren't used to playing chases. 

    The Hat
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    bDnews got me thinking when he said he's getting a lot of requests for straight bet systems. Why can't you turn a really strong chase system into a straight bet system? 

    A) bets would be a win 
    B) bets would be a win and a loss 
    C) bets would be a win and 2 losses 
    D) bets would be a win and 3 losses
    E) bets would be a win and 4 losses 
    F) bets would be a win and 5 losses

    My system 1 college hoops would be up 10 units instead of 65 but no risk.

    My system 2 college hoops would be -.5 unit not strong enough for conversion.

    My NHL system is +65.4 units instead of 94 but again no risk.

    My greatest system ever 2013 baseball instead of being up 776 units last year is up +260 units but no risk.

    You could also play straight for first 2 bets in my baseball system and then a 4 game chase if haven't hit? So far first 2 games hitting in the mid 80's% wise. 

    Comment are welcome I think this might take the pressure off guys with smaller rolls or who aren't used to playing chases. 

    The Hat
     
    Danrules24
    Danrules24
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    Posted: Feb. 1, 2014 - 11:51 PM ET #2

    Very interesting Jeff. I may have to see how this would work out with some other systems, but I like the thought process. I'll report back.
    Stay disciplined and manage your bankroll
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    Very interesting Jeff. I may have to see how this would work out with some other systems, but I like the thought process. I'll report back.
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 2:36 PM ET #3

    Taking the next step with this, for example in my Greatest System Ever baseball system year 2010

    A) 461
    B) 187
    C) 82
    D) 24
    E) 17
    F) 7

    So if you bet straight for the first 2 games in the chase you hit 648-187 
    For a profit of 442.3 units. Then you can chase games C-F for a 4 game chase for another 130 units binging it to a 572.3 unit win instead of the original 758 units. This all based on -110 lines for the straight bets of course but the results won't vary by much. There are many ways to do this. Bet first 3 games as straight? Last 3 in a chase? Thought there might be more input on this as I think this a great betting strategy unless I'm missing something?
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    Taking the next step with this, for example in my Greatest System Ever baseball system year 2010

    A) 461
    B) 187
    C) 82
    D) 24
    E) 17
    F) 7

    So if you bet straight for the first 2 games in the chase you hit 648-187 
    For a profit of 442.3 units. Then you can chase games C-F for a 4 game chase for another 130 units binging it to a 572.3 unit win instead of the original 758 units. This all based on -110 lines for the straight bets of course but the results won't vary by much. There are many ways to do this. Bet first 3 games as straight? Last 3 in a chase? Thought there might be more input on this as I think this a great betting strategy unless I'm missing something?
     
    daytradernation
    daytradernation
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:00 PM ET #4

    Jeff,

    Message me and let me know what your going to be charging for these picks.....

    Also, your suggestion of how to play. I like the idea of simply playing the 1st 2 games. If you lose them both, next series (forget the chase), up the unit to two units.

    Example:

    Mets underdog -1 unit
    game 2 mets undedog -3 units.

    start next series at either 4 units or 3 units to be even.

    IDK, many ways to approach this....
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    Jeff,

    Message me and let me know what your going to be charging for these picks.....

    Also, your suggestion of how to play. I like the idea of simply playing the 1st 2 games. If you lose them both, next series (forget the chase), up the unit to two units.

    Example:

    Mets underdog -1 unit
    game 2 mets undedog -3 units.

    start next series at either 4 units or 3 units to be even.

    IDK, many ways to approach this....
     
    da-Genius
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:12 PM ET #5

    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0
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    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:25 PM ET #6

    Quote Originally Posted by da-Genius:

    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0

    I don't think so? Because after first 2 bets you go into chase mode like its a new chase, so you would have made 648 bets and losing only 187. Then you begin chase on the other 130 plays which all won. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by da-Genius:

    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0

    I don't think so? Because after first 2 bets you go into chase mode like its a new chase, so you would have made 648 bets and losing only 187. Then you begin chase on the other 130 plays which all won. 
     
    Bart_
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:29 PM ET #7

    I think we have to look at more years to come up with a good idea how to bet this.

    Can you share the other years game breakdowns? 
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    I think we have to look at more years to come up with a good idea how to bet this.

    Can you share the other years game breakdowns? 
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:41 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart_:

    I think we have to look at more years to come up with a good idea how to bet this.

    Can you share the other years game breakdowns? 

    Sure, I have 2011 and 2012 that I havent shared yet. 2009 is a work in progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart_:

    I think we have to look at more years to come up with a good idea how to bet this.

    Can you share the other years game breakdowns? 

    Sure, I have 2011 and 2012 that I havent shared yet. 2009 is a work in progress.
     
    nghia1973
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 3:55 PM ET #9

    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    I don't think so? Because after first 2 bets you go into chase mode like its a new chase, so you would have made 648 bets and losing only 187. Then you begin chase on the other 130 plays which all won. 

    da-Genius is correct.  If you straight bet A&B it would be 648-317
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    I don't think so? Because after first 2 bets you go into chase mode like its a new chase, so you would have made 648 bets and losing only 187. Then you begin chase on the other 130 plays which all won. 

    da-Genius is correct.  If you straight bet A&B it would be 648-317
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 5:06 PM ET #10

    Quote Originally Posted by nghia1973:


    da-Genius is correct.  If you straight bet A&B it would be 648-317

    Ok, I see it now. Its why I asked for more eyes. That being the case you win 299.30 units on the straight bets and then 111 on thec4 game chase.? For a total of 410.30 units instead of 758.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nghia1973:


    da-Genius is correct.  If you straight bet A&B it would be 648-317

    Ok, I see it now. Its why I asked for more eyes. That being the case you win 299.30 units on the straight bets and then 111 on thec4 game chase.? For a total of 410.30 units instead of 758.

     
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 5:16 PM ET #11

    130 units on the 4 game chase for a total of 440.30 units instead of 758.
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    130 units on the 4 game chase for a total of 440.30 units instead of 758.
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 5:17 PM ET #12

    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:

    130 units on the 4 game chase for a total of 440.30 units instead of 758.

    Lol, brain not working 130+ 299.30 = 429.30 units.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:

    130 units on the 4 game chase for a total of 440.30 units instead of 758.

    Lol, brain not working 130+ 299.30 = 429.30 units.
     
    orhane
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 10:29 PM ET #13

    the easiest way to measure the quality of a chase vs su is to compare ROI. so compare these two values and you will se what point there is.
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    the easiest way to measure the quality of a chase vs su is to compare ROI. so compare these two values and you will se what point there is.
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2014 - 10:38 PM ET #14

    Quote Originally Posted by orhane:

    the easiest way to measure the quality of a chase vs su is to compare ROI. so compare these two values and you will se what point there is.

    Nearly all my chases are undefeated when I research them, if and when they get a loss during season then would have to factor. Can you take my 2010 results and show everyone what your saying? 

    Thx in advance

    The Hat 
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    Quote Originally Posted by orhane:

    the easiest way to measure the quality of a chase vs su is to compare ROI. so compare these two values and you will se what point there is.

    Nearly all my chases are undefeated when I research them, if and when they get a loss during season then would have to factor. Can you take my 2010 results and show everyone what your saying? 

    Thx in advance

    The Hat 
     
    orhane
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2014 - 9:38 AM ET #15

    sure i will:
    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0

    net profit divided by investment is ROI. i'd like to use it to show the risk you will take when making a bet.

    the money invested = (461*1)+(187*2)+(82*4)+(24*8)+(17*16)+(7*32)
    461+374+328+192+272+224= 1851
    in this chasing system you will invest 1851 units your profit will be:
    461+187+82+24+17+7=778
    ROI=42,03%

    so if you'll do a straight up system you can calculate the same with the profit to investment ratio.

    for straight betting you would have a record of:
    778-396.
    just to have the comparable stats i assume you wil go for 1 unit profit on even odds.
    this means money invested: 1174
    profit: 382
    ROI: 382/1174 = 32,54%

    so the main point here is:
    is it worth to take higher risk to have 10% more value on your investment.
    to loose the profits of your chase system you will need aprox. 8 to 9 losses.
    look at it this way: you will have to invest 600+ units more to double up your profits in the chase.
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    sure i will:
    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0

    net profit divided by investment is ROI. i'd like to use it to show the risk you will take when making a bet.

    the money invested = (461*1)+(187*2)+(82*4)+(24*8)+(17*16)+(7*32)
    461+374+328+192+272+224= 1851
    in this chasing system you will invest 1851 units your profit will be:
    461+187+82+24+17+7=778
    ROI=42,03%

    so if you'll do a straight up system you can calculate the same with the profit to investment ratio.

    for straight betting you would have a record of:
    778-396.
    just to have the comparable stats i assume you wil go for 1 unit profit on even odds.
    this means money invested: 1174
    profit: 382
    ROI: 382/1174 = 32,54%

    so the main point here is:
    is it worth to take higher risk to have 10% more value on your investment.
    to loose the profits of your chase system you will need aprox. 8 to 9 losses.
    look at it this way: you will have to invest 600+ units more to double up your profits in the chase.
     
    reddevil134
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2014 - 11:38 AM ET #16

    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    Ok, I see it now. Its why I asked for more eyes. That being the case you win 299.30 units on the straight bets and then 111 on thec4 game chase.? For a total of 410.30 units instead of 758.

    with these results isnt the best way to bet this system bet A,B,C, plays straight up bets for 2 units each?

    much lower risk and less than half the chase bankroll needed to get started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    Ok, I see it now. Its why I asked for more eyes. That being the case you win 299.30 units on the straight bets and then 111 on thec4 game chase.? For a total of 410.30 units instead of 758.

    with these results isnt the best way to bet this system bet A,B,C, plays straight up bets for 2 units each?

    much lower risk and less than half the chase bankroll needed to get started.

     
    markmarkmark
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2014 - 4:46 PM ET #17

    I may be wrong, but didn't you post somewhere that your avg ml is around -150? The losses would then cost you much more then -110 thus changing your units won amount, correct?
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    I may be wrong, but didn't you post somewhere that your avg ml is around -150? The losses would then cost you much more then -110 thus changing your units won amount, correct?
     
    markmarkmark
    markmarkmark
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2014 - 5:07 PM ET #18

    Sorry forgot to mention I was using your mlb system as an example. Just looking at your 2010 numbers for game one only:

    778 total games
    461 game 1 winners
    317 losses (games 2-6)
    144 games up

    BUT

    avg -150 ml on losses
    317 x 150 ml
    -475.5 units
    +461 units won

    = -14.5 units overall

    Does this make sense???
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    Sorry forgot to mention I was using your mlb system as an example. Just looking at your 2010 numbers for game one only:

    778 total games
    461 game 1 winners
    317 losses (games 2-6)
    144 games up

    BUT

    avg -150 ml on losses
    317 x 150 ml
    -475.5 units
    +461 units won

    = -14.5 units overall

    Does this make sense???
     
    JEFFTHEHAT
    JEFFTHEHAT
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    Posted: Feb. 3, 2014 - 5:08 PM ET #19

    Quote Originally Posted by markmarkmark:

    I may be wrong, but didn't you post somewhere that your avg ml is around -150? The losses would then cost you much more then -110 thus changing your units won amount, correct?

    I stated in post #1 that that was based on -110 lines but it wouldn't vary much for 2 straight bets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markmarkmark:

    I may be wrong, but didn't you post somewhere that your avg ml is around -150? The losses would then cost you much more then -110 thus changing your units won amount, correct?

    I stated in post #1 that that was based on -110 lines but it wouldn't vary much for 2 straight bets.
     
    markmarkmark
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    Posted: Feb. 4, 2014 - 3:28 PM ET #20

    I'm just curious if you'd still be up 200+ units with your game 1 only in baseball with an avg of ml of -143. Since baseball lines are rarely-110...
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    I'm just curious if you'd still be up 200+ units with your game 1 only in baseball with an avg of ml of -143. Since baseball lines are rarely-110...
     
    Vansmaack
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    Posted: Feb. 5, 2014 - 5:47 PM ET #21

    Quote Originally Posted by da-Genius:

    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0


    This looks wrong to me.  A should read 461-317.  So if you were to flat bet game A you would be losing after factoring in -150 juice.  From there it doesn't get any better.  For example if your were to move on to flat betting game B you would be 648 (461+187) and 447 (317+130).  Again add -150 juice and you're still down.  Maybe I'm wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by da-Genius:

    Wouldn't the A & B straight bets be 648-317?

    A) 461-187
    B) 187-130
    C) 82-48
    D) 24-24
    E) 17-7
    F) 7-0


    This looks wrong to me.  A should read 461-317.  So if you were to flat bet game A you would be losing after factoring in -150 juice.  From there it doesn't get any better.  For example if your were to move on to flat betting game B you would be 648 (461+187) and 447 (317+130).  Again add -150 juice and you're still down.  Maybe I'm wrong.
     
    Bart_
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2014 - 4:49 PM ET #22

    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    Sure, I have 2011 and 2012 that I havent shared yet. 2009 is a work in progress.

    Jeff, any luck with previous years numbers so we can figure out how to play this? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:


    Sure, I have 2011 and 2012 that I havent shared yet. 2009 is a work in progress.

    Jeff, any luck with previous years numbers so we can figure out how to play this? 
     
    chargerfan10
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    Posted: Feb. 6, 2014 - 5:37 PM ET #23

    these numbers are staggering.  hat, are you going to convert your chase into a straight betting system on a and b?
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    these numbers are staggering.  hat, are you going to convert your chase into a straight betting system on a and b?
     
    otunj
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    Posted: Feb. 11, 2014 - 4:48 PM ET #24

    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:

    bDnews got me thinking when he said he's getting a lot of requests for straight bet systems. Why can't you turn a really strong chase system into a straight bet system? 

    My NHL system is +65.4 units instead of 94 but again no risk.


    The NHL system bets the +1.5 puck line. Who would you bet straight up? The ML favorite or dog?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEFFTHEHAT:

    bDnews got me thinking when he said he's getting a lot of requests for straight bet systems. Why can't you turn a really strong chase system into a straight bet system? 

    My NHL system is +65.4 units instead of 94 but again no risk.


    The NHL system bets the +1.5 puck line. Who would you bet straight up? The ML favorite or dog?
     
     
    da-Genius
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    Posted: Feb. 13, 2014 - 2:50 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by Vansmaack:



    This looks wrong to me.  A should read 461-317.  So if you were to flat bet game A you would be losing after factoring in -150 juice.  From there it doesn't get any better.  For example if your were to move on to flat betting game B you would be 648 (461+187) and 447 (317+130).  Again add -150 juice and you're still down.  Maybe I'm wrong.

    yes you are right Van
    A) should be 461-317
    not sure why i miscalculated that one

    648-447 for straight bets of A & B
    average juice for all 1095 bets would have to be below -145 to make money
    even it average juice was -130 the profit would be +67u.. that's a lot of bets to make for such a small gain

    in my opinion the most profitable way to bet this system might be to do a 4 game chase starting at his C so there would be +82u of profit



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    Quote Originally Posted by Vansmaack:



    This looks wrong to me.  A should read 461-317.  So if you were to flat bet game A you would be losing after factoring in -150 juice.  From there it doesn't get any better.  For example if your were to move on to flat betting game B you would be 648 (461+187) and 447 (317+130).  Again add -150 juice and you're still down.  Maybe I'm wrong.

    yes you are right Van
    A) should be 461-317
    not sure why i miscalculated that one

    648-447 for straight bets of A & B
    average juice for all 1095 bets would have to be below -145 to make money
    even it average juice was -130 the profit would be +67u.. that's a lot of bets to make for such a small gain

    in my opinion the most profitable way to bet this system might be to do a 4 game chase starting at his C so there would be +82u of profit



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