Isn’t true that to some degree that offshore and Vegas books do the same?
Perhaps in the early days but now it’s not really the general public
that determines the lines but the large bettors that would set the
market. The offshore or Vegas lines are basically the same as any other
type of money market which determines prices. A money market as such
tends to be very efficient at determining the right prices.
Do you bet online yourself?
No I haven’t at all. I’ve always assumed the offshore oddsmakers know what they’re doing so I never really saw any point to it.
Many players long for the early days. Is the potential of winning at proline as good as it used to be?
I think the potential is still there. It could be argued that they're
better at doing their odds now. I’m not sure if I that’s actually true
or not, but the potential is definitely still there. There’s so many
more opportunities because there’s many more games on the list than
there used to be. They seem to be getting very greedy in offering so
many games now. Probably in part because we haven’t been very active in
the past few years.
I've often said
that their greed outruns their common sense. They come up with an idea
to make money and they’re in such a hurry to cash in that nobody takes
the time to think it through properly..
Yes, I agree with
that - they don’t take the time to think anything through. The problems
now are the limits on stores and the liability limits. Now to win a lot
of money you have to work harder, but the opportunities are still there.
Any advice for the average player to be a more skillful player?
It's just a matter of looking at the proline odds and comparing them to
the offshore odds really. Then just hope that the offshore oddsmakers
are right and the proline oddsmakers are wrong. Over time that guess is
usually correct. [laughter by all]
I
know from our previous conversation that you've played at one time or
another in all the lottery areas with the exception of British
Columbia. I'd like to go through the provinces and get the best story
you have from each .....
Starting
with the Atlantic Provinces - the link at the top is for your win of
$1.7 million on the Nba - can you tell us more about that?
We
were playing proline regularly at a store in Ottawa where the retailer
had a brother who owned a store in Moncton. Through him we set up an
arrangement whereby we would wire the money out there and then phone
our plays in to him.
I remember in a
Sun article at the time it mentions you pacing a hotel room out there
while awaiting the results in the last game ....
No that was
inaccurate. To be honest, in this case the papers got it wrong because
I lied about that. We didn’t want the Atlantic Lottery to know that we
were phoning the plays in to a store there. When my brother and I
realized that night how big our win was, I did arrange to fly out there
on the first morning flight to collect our tickets and redeem them.
I believe that it was about the same time that you made your first big win in Quebec.
Can you tell us about that?
We
started playing at a store in Quebec and making fairly large, well very
large, wagers. The lottery corporation was all happy at first and they
accomodated us by allowing the store to raise thier limit from the
$25,000 maximum for a half-week period. They did this by getting us to
get letters of credit for $50,000 each and depositing $125,000 in
advance into the Lotto-Quebec bank account. Once that was done we were
allowed a limit of $225,000 for a half-week.
How long did that arrangement continue?
Not
that long.... After the $225,000 limit was put in we connected for $1.7
million and a week later for $1.5 million. Then they no longer allowed
the advance deposits and refused to accept our letters of credit, in
effect bringing us back to $25,000. They also made statements that this
game was not intended for that kind of betting! And they were quoted in
the newspapers as saying that money laundering was one of several
possibilities and that they’d reported us to the Quebec police.
I shouldn’t be laughing because that’s actually getting quite ....
Yes
it getting dirty. That’s the best way to put it, although I can laugh
about it now. To make a long story short they were willing to aid
someone they suspected of money laundering and didn’t care as long as
they thought they were making a profit, but when they lost they decided
to alter their definition of what their game was for and backdate it.
Let's move on to Ontario and the OLGC ......
Can you tell us the story of the garbage bags full of tickets?
For
many years the lottery corporation had no problem with us cashing our
tickets at a one local retailer. The lottery corporation had a policy
with retailers that if you owed them money it had to be paid by the due
date or else they would suspend the terminal. But if the retailer was
owed money because he had used the store money to pay winning tickets,
then this would just remain as a credit that they had to work off with
more sales. That was the general policy, however if the store’s balance
was very large they could phone the lottery corporation and request an
immediate settlement.
Isn’t true that to some degree that offshore and Vegas books do the same?
Perhaps in the early days but now it’s not really the general public
that determines the lines but the large bettors that would set the
market. The offshore or Vegas lines are basically the same as any other
type of money market which determines prices. A money market as such
tends to be very efficient at determining the right prices.
Do you bet online yourself?
No I haven’t at all. I’ve always assumed the offshore oddsmakers know what they’re doing so I never really saw any point to it.
Many players long for the early days. Is the potential of winning at proline as good as it used to be?
I think the potential is still there. It could be argued that they're
better at doing their odds now. I’m not sure if I that’s actually true
or not, but the potential is definitely still there. There’s so many
more opportunities because there’s many more games on the list than
there used to be. They seem to be getting very greedy in offering so
many games now. Probably in part because we haven’t been very active in
the past few years.
I've often said
that their greed outruns their common sense. They come up with an idea
to make money and they’re in such a hurry to cash in that nobody takes
the time to think it through properly..
Yes, I agree with
that - they don’t take the time to think anything through. The problems
now are the limits on stores and the liability limits. Now to win a lot
of money you have to work harder, but the opportunities are still there.
Any advice for the average player to be a more skillful player?
It's just a matter of looking at the proline odds and comparing them to
the offshore odds really. Then just hope that the offshore oddsmakers
are right and the proline oddsmakers are wrong. Over time that guess is
usually correct. [laughter by all]
I
know from our previous conversation that you've played at one time or
another in all the lottery areas with the exception of British
Columbia. I'd like to go through the provinces and get the best story
you have from each .....
Starting
with the Atlantic Provinces - the link at the top is for your win of
$1.7 million on the Nba - can you tell us more about that?
We
were playing proline regularly at a store in Ottawa where the retailer
had a brother who owned a store in Moncton. Through him we set up an
arrangement whereby we would wire the money out there and then phone
our plays in to him.
I remember in a
Sun article at the time it mentions you pacing a hotel room out there
while awaiting the results in the last game ....
No that was
inaccurate. To be honest, in this case the papers got it wrong because
I lied about that. We didn’t want the Atlantic Lottery to know that we
were phoning the plays in to a store there. When my brother and I
realized that night how big our win was, I did arrange to fly out there
on the first morning flight to collect our tickets and redeem them.
I believe that it was about the same time that you made your first big win in Quebec.
Can you tell us about that?
We
started playing at a store in Quebec and making fairly large, well very
large, wagers. The lottery corporation was all happy at first and they
accomodated us by allowing the store to raise thier limit from the
$25,000 maximum for a half-week period. They did this by getting us to
get letters of credit for $50,000 each and depositing $125,000 in
advance into the Lotto-Quebec bank account. Once that was done we were
allowed a limit of $225,000 for a half-week.
How long did that arrangement continue?
Not
that long.... After the $225,000 limit was put in we connected for $1.7
million and a week later for $1.5 million. Then they no longer allowed
the advance deposits and refused to accept our letters of credit, in
effect bringing us back to $25,000. They also made statements that this
game was not intended for that kind of betting! And they were quoted in
the newspapers as saying that money laundering was one of several
possibilities and that they’d reported us to the Quebec police.
I shouldn’t be laughing because that’s actually getting quite ....
Yes
it getting dirty. That’s the best way to put it, although I can laugh
about it now. To make a long story short they were willing to aid
someone they suspected of money laundering and didn’t care as long as
they thought they were making a profit, but when they lost they decided
to alter their definition of what their game was for and backdate it.
Let's move on to Ontario and the OLGC ......
Can you tell us the story of the garbage bags full of tickets?
For
many years the lottery corporation had no problem with us cashing our
tickets at a one local retailer. The lottery corporation had a policy
with retailers that if you owed them money it had to be paid by the due
date or else they would suspend the terminal. But if the retailer was
owed money because he had used the store money to pay winning tickets,
then this would just remain as a credit that they had to work off with
more sales. That was the general policy, however if the store’s balance
was very large they could phone the lottery corporation and request an
immediate settlement.
Kovalev ( Kovalev to Kovalev , he shoots, he scores,lmao.) Not a chance 
I
hope you've enjoying this transcript of my conversation with
Poindexter. I found it very difficult to convey the atmosphere of the
afternoon in written form. Much of the time was spent in laughter
recounting our episodes of betting Proline over the years. Meanwhile, a
lot of time was spent on serious discussions of how to gain an edge in
proline plays.
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