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"We can't drill our way out of this: Si se puede,Si se puede..

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KOAJ

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Joined: Oct, 2005

Posts: 66698

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 9:53 PM ET #26

Alternative or even renewable sources of energy should replace our demand for oil.
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who pays to convert our entire economy?

its still not cost feasible to convert to solar, wind, coal, etc....federal tax credits are extended one year at a time. no one will do it without this added savings to offset the tremendous cost of conversion

we have no shortage of oil. its just too expensive b/c we have to import 70-80% of our fuels.

we should also eliminate tariffs on brazilian ethanol and stop subsidizing farmers...but thats another conversation

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kujayhwk

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Joined: Sep, 2004

Posts: 7180

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 9:54 PM ET #27

Slim-

It's the most innovative (American) industry probably in the world..mainly because of the capitol available to investigate new processes and the potential pay-offs if those innovations prove out.

The state of the art in US seismic data processing software is at the top of the list of what the Chinese want to copy or steal.

The American oil field service companies have invented, just in the last 10 years, more innovative ways to drill a hole in the ground than you can shake a stick out.

Enhanced recovery techniques are entering a fourth generation of innovation in only about 20 years.

These guys aren't just sitting around smoking cuban cigars watching the money pour into their coffers.

They are coming up with some incredible ways of producing more oil from every hole they drill in the ground, while smoking cuban cigars and watching the money flow into their coffers.

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FriedShrimp

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Joined: Jan, 2008

Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:04 PM ET #28

Would diplomacy or ass kissing be an option? Can we throw Israel under the bus and strike deals with OPEC?

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SarasotaSlim

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Joined: Jan, 2007

Posts: 35126

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:07 PM ET #29

The demand for oil has to be meet to the percent of demand that alternative and renewable sources of energy dont meet......

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wallstreetcappers

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Joined: Feb, 2003

Posts: 58269

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:09 PM ET #30

Speaking of solar..

Ive been looking into it out of curiousity and even with AZ credits, the cost isnt there yet.

To provide at peak the power I need to be "off the grid" the base cost for a 12 or so Kw system is 35k after ALL the rebates, and if you dont live in AZ or Calif that cost would be more like 60k. The recoup time frame for residential solar even with credits is like 10 plus years and that isnt enough of a motivating factor. I want to do the right thing but not where I am paying DOUBLE what I do now for electricity.

Our federal credits of 2k or 3k for home solar is a TOTAL joke, and I read that the repubs blocked the VETO votes enough to extend credits into next year.

Until the technology gets cheap enough to make sense and our government stops trying to drill our way out of the problem, solar cannot catch on residentially.

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SarasotaSlim

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Joined: Jan, 2007

Posts: 35126

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:12 PM ET #31

At least these guys are sitting around smoking cuban cigars and not drilling ho's with them..........

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kujayhwk

Captain

Joined: Sep, 2004

Posts: 7180

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:20 PM ET #32

WSC:

What is killing your situation is the amount of juice you need to cool that house of yours.

How about just starting with your hot water needs. You have an electric water heater, don't you? Have you looked into solar collectors to supply your hot water needs?

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FriedShrimp

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Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:26 PM ET #33

Quote Originally Posted by kujayhwk:

WSC:

What is killing your situation is the amount of juice you need to cool that house of yours.

How about just starting with your hot water needs. You have an electric water heater, don't you? Have you looked into solar collectors to supply your hot water needs?

Electric ..... nat gas much more efficient !!

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FriedShrimp

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Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:30 PM ET #34

Have you tried 14 Seer HVAC? ...... It REALLY makes a difference. Cooling bill will drop in half.

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kujayhwk

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Joined: Sep, 2004

Posts: 7180

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:31 PM ET #35

FS:

He lives in Phoenix.....pretty much all electric there.

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FriedShrimp

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Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 10:43 PM ET #36

Roof Ventilation?

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grasking

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Joined: May, 2007

Posts: 210

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 11:19 PM ET #37

Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

Pricey petroleum is here to stay.

The United States has under -invested in the oil industry for years and as such is not epuipted to generate enough to meet the present demand ........

We in America have had low price of oil for too long ....and did not improve are processes.........or add new discoveries and improve production procedures...

Obviously demand for oil needs to met with more oil and without an added supply of oil ...prices will rise higher ,but not as high as it would be if the supply of oil was not meet .............

You sir are a fucking moron!

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wallstreetcappers

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Joined: Feb, 2003

Posts: 58269

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 11:20 PM ET #38

KU,

Actually we have NG water heater, but for usage it isnt much..especially during June to October..damn water is hot before it even gets to the house, not a big cost and the break even on a solar water heater is terrible, worse than regular solar.

FS, now we do have older AC units, but again the cost for 3 14 plus seer AC units is HUGE and the break even is again way out there for the savings we have over the current lower seer units.

My friend custom built his house like 3 yrs ago with 14 seer, he has a ONE level 3k sf house and still pays middle 300s in the summer, so our house is larger and is more but the cost of those AC units is hefty.

The cost analysis for these alternative solutions isnt good right now, I wish solar was cheaper...

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wallstreetcappers

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Joined: Feb, 2003

Posts: 58269

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 11:25 PM ET #39

Quote Originally Posted by grasking:

You sir are a fucking moron!

Come again?

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Ap1Bfreetorun

Captain

Joined: Jul, 2007

Posts: 7205

Posted: Jul. 25, 2008 - 11:30 PM ET #40

In my humble way, I have a question: How much oil will we have in ten years if we DON'T start drilling now? Answer for those that can't figure it out = NONE!

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FriedShrimp

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Joined: Jan, 2008

Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 26, 2008 - 12:24 AM ET #41

Wall, well at least when you go to replace the older units, please, please, please look into the 14 Seers. Breakeven on the "incremental" cost is less than a year.

Do you have a ridge ventilation system?

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wallstreetcappers

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Joined: Feb, 2003

Posts: 58269

Posted: Jul. 26, 2008 - 1:12 AM ET #42

Shrimp.,

We dont have roof mounted systems (thankfully) but the air is forced in from the ground through ventilation systems which depending on the unit goes up to the second level or stays on the first, so it is not housed in the attic or on the roof.

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FriedShrimp

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Posts: 20685

Posted: Jul. 26, 2008 - 1:36 AM ET #43

Wall- Insulation and ventilation really make a difference. Next time you have a builder buddy or somebody come over, make him look at your set up. Attic ventilation is key though because it traps everything in. There are a zillion ways to ventilate attics and I am unfamiliar with Zona but good attic ventilation will definately help. Especially with that sun pounding on you guys. Also, insulation is dirt cheap and really makes a difference.

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jambolaya

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Joined: Jul, 2008

Posts: 109

Posted: Jul. 26, 2008 - 11:07 PM ET #44

Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

Alternative or even renewable sources of energy should replace our demand for oil.
----------
who pays to convert our entire economy?

its still not cost feasible to convert to solar, wind, coal, etc....federal tax credits are extended one year at a time.

More nonsense from the drill every where camp! You are basically arguing that at the current price of oil, instead of finding solutions like the Brazilians did 30 years ago, we should peg ourselves to the same system that has brought us to this economic disaster.

Only the "drill more" camp is under the incredibly bogus illusion that oil prices will be at 4 bucks a gallon in ten years if we drill for oil. Its amaizing that you dont understand that in 10 years, we shall be paying 10 bucks a gallon if we continue on the path we are on, even with drilling offshore and ANWAR!!! The stats dont lie. There isnt a damn thing drilling for more oil is going to do to curb exploding global economies like china, India, Russia etc.

This is something you people cant seem to get into your heads. All that oil you keep yammering about will still not be enough to meet our demands and we shall still be importing massive amounts of oil from all over the world.

Where will the money for convertion come from? Are you seriously asking me to answer this question...Well good for you, i am a generous guy.

How about we start with the 10 billion a month we shall be saving from ending this nonsensical national building disaster in Iraq?

Did it occur to you that we should have had over 700 billion in the till hadnt your fellow "Drill offshore" clown, George Bush lead us into that b/s war?

And you crying because convertion is expensive, do you think the brazilians are currently free of foreign oil by magic?

They made the sacrifices that needed to be made, installed programmes that enabled them to get off foreing oil and right now they are laughing at people like you who think there is a solution in oil. And they are laughing all the way to the bank. They have pretty much monopolized the majority of off shore drilling equipment and shall be the same ones selling you a barrell of oil at 200 a gallon after you all lead us into your nonsensical ideas of drilling for more of the same problem we have.

And these are the same people who call Obama unelectable.