Wow, you are truly lost. Its not that we have a hard time grasping any of that - its simply that you are completely wrong. Its people like you that have this hate-on for "evil corporations" when in fact, without corporate America, there would be no jobs. You simply hate anyone that has had success and has earned it. It amazes me how many people have this distorted view of this country. Keep ripping on them and making it tougher for them to succeed and eventually everyone will get hurt from it.
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
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Quote Originally Posted by snuke:
Wow, you are truly lost. Its not that we have a hard time grasping any of that - its simply that you are completely wrong. Its people like you that have this hate-on for "evil corporations" when in fact, without corporate America, there would be no jobs. You simply hate anyone that has had success and has earned it. It amazes me how many people have this distorted view of this country. Keep ripping on them and making it tougher for them to succeed and eventually everyone will get hurt from it.
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
wasnt america also founded on competitiveness?
Find similar products, built to similar standards, and allow the buyer to get the best deal?
If the big 3 want our business back they need to do 2 things:
1) improve their product
2) lower their prices
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
wasnt america also founded on competitiveness?
Find similar products, built to similar standards, and allow the buyer to get the best deal?
If the big 3 want our business back they need to do 2 things:
Find similar products, built to similar standards, and allow the buyer to get the best deal?
If the big 3 want our business back they need to do 2 things:
1) improve their product
2) lower their prices
listen Mets, am not talking about just the big 3, am talking about all the greedy friggin coprporations that have moved overseas to make bigger profits. They arent happy enough making good profits, no they need to pay people shit wages overseas, so they can create big profits. Sorry but i dont call that being competitive, i call it being a friggin pig.
People have gotton spoiled with all these cheap products coming into the country because everybody wants a deal. What people fail to even bother to think about is who made those products for the cheap prices you paid for them. Its like in the name of a good deal, you could careless about the human story behind that product. Everytime you buy those crappy cheap overseas products your helping to contribute to corporations using your fellow man for their own greedy selves. I guess alot of you sleep good knowing you got a product for cheap and not caring that somebody slaved all day making those products for pennies.
Its no differnt then when you hear people say buying drugs in our country helps all the terrorists and scumbags in our countries make money. Same thing is happening when you buy products from overseas.
Worst thing that ever happened to our country is all those big box stores like walmart. Theres a family that sold America right down the drain, all the while lining their pockets with cash.
Let me ask you because nobody else seems to be able to answer this question.
Whast going to happen when America stops making everything here and all we do is import every product into this country. Where exactly is everybody going to work? Where will all the jobs be at? Low paying service type jobs??? Sorry but our country wont even need jobs like those since nobody has money for any services anyways. So please tell me where the jobs will be, because i really want to know.
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexPKeaton:
wasnt america also founded on competitiveness?
Find similar products, built to similar standards, and allow the buyer to get the best deal?
If the big 3 want our business back they need to do 2 things:
1) improve their product
2) lower their prices
listen Mets, am not talking about just the big 3, am talking about all the greedy friggin coprporations that have moved overseas to make bigger profits. They arent happy enough making good profits, no they need to pay people shit wages overseas, so they can create big profits. Sorry but i dont call that being competitive, i call it being a friggin pig.
People have gotton spoiled with all these cheap products coming into the country because everybody wants a deal. What people fail to even bother to think about is who made those products for the cheap prices you paid for them. Its like in the name of a good deal, you could careless about the human story behind that product. Everytime you buy those crappy cheap overseas products your helping to contribute to corporations using your fellow man for their own greedy selves. I guess alot of you sleep good knowing you got a product for cheap and not caring that somebody slaved all day making those products for pennies.
Its no differnt then when you hear people say buying drugs in our country helps all the terrorists and scumbags in our countries make money. Same thing is happening when you buy products from overseas.
Worst thing that ever happened to our country is all those big box stores like walmart. Theres a family that sold America right down the drain, all the while lining their pockets with cash.
Let me ask you because nobody else seems to be able to answer this question.
Whast going to happen when America stops making everything here and all we do is import every product into this country. Where exactly is everybody going to work? Where will all the jobs be at? Low paying service type jobs??? Sorry but our country wont even need jobs like those since nobody has money for any services anyways. So please tell me where the jobs will be, because i really want to know.
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
you keep talking about corporations going overseas. Any idea of the percentage of companies still employing Americans? Didn't think so.
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
wake up and get a clue, all those corporations moved overseas on their own, because they wanted to make bigger profits by using slave labor to produce their products. If you think thats what America was founded on then you dont know about your country at all.
you keep talking about corporations going overseas. Any idea of the percentage of companies still employing Americans? Didn't think so.
No, those who work get richer, those who don't wait for handouts. The reason this is the greatest country in the world (and why people flock to it from all over) is because of the capitalist system. The government HAD to bail out the banks. If there is no liquidity, there are no loans for business. No business means a crashed economy - a true crashed economy, not what we see now. Its not hard to comprehend this. Don't try to make everything into a "oh, they're just out to hurt the little guy" scenario.
First of all, the poor does get poorer in a capitalist system. Usually the poor doesn't have other-sources of income (other investments). Most of their income is spent on discretionary spending. Also If you look at the Minnesota Fed report when the crisis broke out, banks were still lending (at a normal or actual higher rate). The reason why there was almost a collapse is because of Paulson and Bernanke destroyed the confidence in the system by telling the media that this is Armageddon. Look at the original TARP money, it was a complete waste of money. The reason why its not working is because the government is bailing out insolvent banks (also the government created artificial demand of illiquid assets which created uncertainty on everyone's computer model). Private capital companies had cash to purchase the toxic assets during and before the crisis, but they truly were worth jack shit (or nobody knew what the true is value was). People can blame mark to market accounting, but truely I thought those assets were worth shit. Also look ahead for another crisis when the ARMS and ALT-A loans start to default. MORE bailouts coming your way
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Quote Originally Posted by snuke:
No, those who work get richer, those who don't wait for handouts. The reason this is the greatest country in the world (and why people flock to it from all over) is because of the capitalist system. The government HAD to bail out the banks. If there is no liquidity, there are no loans for business. No business means a crashed economy - a true crashed economy, not what we see now. Its not hard to comprehend this. Don't try to make everything into a "oh, they're just out to hurt the little guy" scenario.
First of all, the poor does get poorer in a capitalist system. Usually the poor doesn't have other-sources of income (other investments). Most of their income is spent on discretionary spending. Also If you look at the Minnesota Fed report when the crisis broke out, banks were still lending (at a normal or actual higher rate). The reason why there was almost a collapse is because of Paulson and Bernanke destroyed the confidence in the system by telling the media that this is Armageddon. Look at the original TARP money, it was a complete waste of money. The reason why its not working is because the government is bailing out insolvent banks (also the government created artificial demand of illiquid assets which created uncertainty on everyone's computer model). Private capital companies had cash to purchase the toxic assets during and before the crisis, but they truly were worth jack shit (or nobody knew what the true is value was). People can blame mark to market accounting, but truely I thought those assets were worth shit. Also look ahead for another crisis when the ARMS and ALT-A loans start to default. MORE bailouts coming your way
toatlly incorrect. The middle class and the unions built this country ------------ wrong. sorry....they built this country because they were hired to do so by men with vision and ideas about capitalizing on their innovations
was it henry ford or the guys who worked the line?
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toatlly incorrect. The middle class and the unions built this country ------------ wrong. sorry....they built this country because they were hired to do so by men with vision and ideas about capitalizing on their innovations
was it henry ford or the guys who worked the line?
We all know unions can ruin industries. But there is a very obvious reason as to why they are around. Companies taking advantage of workers. There is a middle ground in between there somewhere that works out for both parties.
And regarding the posts from yesterday...
I'm not from the US. So I don't know how bad your social policies are specifically. But I do know the ones in Canada (while not perfect) are working for the most part.
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Koaj, Do you think any unions are necessary?
We all know unions can ruin industries. But there is a very obvious reason as to why they are around. Companies taking advantage of workers. There is a middle ground in between there somewhere that works out for both parties.
And regarding the posts from yesterday...
I'm not from the US. So I don't know how bad your social policies are specifically. But I do know the ones in Canada (while not perfect) are working for the most part.
We all know unions can ruin industries. But there is a very obvious reason as to why they are around. Companies taking advantage of workers. There is a middle ground in between there somewhere that works out for both parties.
And regarding the posts from yesterday...
I'm not from the US. So I don't know how bad your social policies are specifically. But I do know the ones in Canada (while not perfect) are working for the most part.
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
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Quote Originally Posted by NASCAR-Sucks:
Koaj, Do you think any unions are necessary?
We all know unions can ruin industries. But there is a very obvious reason as to why they are around. Companies taking advantage of workers. There is a middle ground in between there somewhere that works out for both parties.
And regarding the posts from yesterday...
I'm not from the US. So I don't know how bad your social policies are specifically. But I do know the ones in Canada (while not perfect) are working for the most part.
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
The biggest problem you just seem to fail to graps is the fact that if there are no jobs in this country for people to work at, what the hell do you expect them to do? This is why people ask for handouts and reason you dont understand this concept is because you havent had to ask for a handout, thus your reasoning for hating handouts.
Let me repeat this, the system didnt fail and could go on forever if the people running the system didnt let it get fucked up. All the big greedy corporate crooks are the ones who ruined the system,by moving all the jobs overseas and if the politicians weent in bed with all those crooks they would have stopped this importing shit a long time ago.
You are kidding yourself. I read most of your posts and you really should change your location to Fantasy Island because you sir do not live in reality. What about when the economy was booming; why weren't these "people" working then? Go down to the Iberville housing project in New Orleans and see how many 19-20 year old blacks are just hanging out at 6 a.m. They don't want to work and never will. New Orleans is 40 years of entitlement at work. They are thousands of jobs with the rebuilding efforts; did they want them. Of course not, it would involve work. That's why Border Patrol is upping the number of agents in the area. They may be criminals but at least they want to work.
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:
The biggest problem you just seem to fail to graps is the fact that if there are no jobs in this country for people to work at, what the hell do you expect them to do? This is why people ask for handouts and reason you dont understand this concept is because you havent had to ask for a handout, thus your reasoning for hating handouts.
Let me repeat this, the system didnt fail and could go on forever if the people running the system didnt let it get fucked up. All the big greedy corporate crooks are the ones who ruined the system,by moving all the jobs overseas and if the politicians weent in bed with all those crooks they would have stopped this importing shit a long time ago.
You are kidding yourself. I read most of your posts and you really should change your location to Fantasy Island because you sir do not live in reality. What about when the economy was booming; why weren't these "people" working then? Go down to the Iberville housing project in New Orleans and see how many 19-20 year old blacks are just hanging out at 6 a.m. They don't want to work and never will. New Orleans is 40 years of entitlement at work. They are thousands of jobs with the rebuilding efforts; did they want them. Of course not, it would involve work. That's why Border Patrol is upping the number of agents in the area. They may be criminals but at least they want to work.
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
I'll never defend the UAW. But obviously you have never worked for a company that has taken short cuts with safety standards before.
Don't get into the oil/contruction business. People die.
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Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
I'll never defend the UAW. But obviously you have never worked for a company that has taken short cuts with safety standards before.
Don't get into the oil/contruction business. People die.
There is an Oscar Meyer factory/building about 13 minutes away from where I live and it is very dangerous to work there. Many, many cases where people have lost limbs in meat grinder's.
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There is an Oscar Meyer factory/building about 13 minutes away from where I live and it is very dangerous to work there. Many, many cases where people have lost limbs in meat grinder's.
the problem with capitalism is that the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer. What pisses me off most is that the government bailed out the bad banks. Ever since, I realize that capitalism is dead in this country.
spot on kevk. That is the flaw in capitalism. for anyone that wants to argue, grab the board game Monopoly. it's the same thing. Everyone starts out even, and as time passes the guy charging you rent on all his built up properties ends up with all your money, and the losers all end up broke.
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Quote Originally Posted by kevk87:
the problem with capitalism is that the rich gets richer while the poor gets poorer. What pisses me off most is that the government bailed out the bad banks. Ever since, I realize that capitalism is dead in this country.
spot on kevk. That is the flaw in capitalism. for anyone that wants to argue, grab the board game Monopoly. it's the same thing. Everyone starts out even, and as time passes the guy charging you rent on all his built up properties ends up with all your money, and the losers all end up broke.
Capitalism allows for competition and provides incentive to work. Socialism puts business in the hands of the government where it eventually will die a slow and painful death. Anyone telling you otherwise is either crazy or selling you something.
Yes, capitalism may lead to one company overtaking another, but that does NOT mean that company is the evil of all evils. If one company provides better services than another, it will succeed while they other will likely fail. The gov't provides checks to ensure companies to not skirt the rules. But it is not the gov'ts job to tell companies how to run their business. Doing so leads to socialism.
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Capitalism allows for competition and provides incentive to work. Socialism puts business in the hands of the government where it eventually will die a slow and painful death. Anyone telling you otherwise is either crazy or selling you something.
Yes, capitalism may lead to one company overtaking another, but that does NOT mean that company is the evil of all evils. If one company provides better services than another, it will succeed while they other will likely fail. The gov't provides checks to ensure companies to not skirt the rules. But it is not the gov'ts job to tell companies how to run their business. Doing so leads to socialism.
starwink - you are against capitalism? capitalism works fine...when the government intervenes "on behalf of the people" that seems to be when things get all screwed up
jobs exist because companies have tasks to perform which they are willing to pay for
in a socialist state, jobs exist to keep people working regardless of product/service need...of course this is doomed to failure
incorrect. Capitalism has failed many times over it developed societies. It does not work. Just because it all seems to be fine for a while doesn't prove anything.
And goverment intervention has nothign to do with it falling over
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Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:
starwink - you are against capitalism? capitalism works fine...when the government intervenes "on behalf of the people" that seems to be when things get all screwed up
jobs exist because companies have tasks to perform which they are willing to pay for
in a socialist state, jobs exist to keep people working regardless of product/service need...of course this is doomed to failure
incorrect. Capitalism has failed many times over it developed societies. It does not work. Just because it all seems to be fine for a while doesn't prove anything.
And goverment intervention has nothign to do with it falling over
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
The USA had laws regulating what banks and the financial industry could be involved in and what they couldn't. You know what happened? Lobbyists for these financial interests had these laws changed.
If you think the laws governing industry can't be changed to favor industry, you are out of your "wall street" loving mind.
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Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:
i dont think they are necessary anymore. there's enough laws and safeguards in place to prevent slave wages. there's OSHA standards, etc
when a union (UAW) could give a damn about the industry it is leeching off and would rather see the business fail than make concessions, then we have problems
The USA had laws regulating what banks and the financial industry could be involved in and what they couldn't. You know what happened? Lobbyists for these financial interests had these laws changed.
If you think the laws governing industry can't be changed to favor industry, you are out of your "wall street" loving mind.
Deregulation. That was the GOP mantra of the last 20 years. It simply means "to eliminate laws governing businesses". How has that worked out? The rich got super rich and the middle class has been decimated.
You think there isn't class warfare? There is, and the super rich are kicking average America's ass.
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Deregulation. That was the GOP mantra of the last 20 years. It simply means "to eliminate laws governing businesses". How has that worked out? The rich got super rich and the middle class has been decimated.
You think there isn't class warfare? There is, and the super rich are kicking average America's ass.
incorrect. Capitalism has failed many times over it developed societies. It does not work.
Ugh. It does work. It works better than any other system ever tried. Why does American have the best standard of living on the planet? Why does it allow for the most middle class Americans to thrive? If you think its such a horrible system, you are fooling yourself into believing the rhetoric of pissed off libs.
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Quote Originally Posted by SecondAgain:
incorrect. Capitalism has failed many times over it developed societies. It does not work.
Ugh. It does work. It works better than any other system ever tried. Why does American have the best standard of living on the planet? Why does it allow for the most middle class Americans to thrive? If you think its such a horrible system, you are fooling yourself into believing the rhetoric of pissed off libs.
Does the "Enron Loophole" ring any bells? Phil Gramm lobbied Congress to make this "minor" change in an energy bill.
The US has been raped by exploitation of this loophole ever since this law was enacted. California's electricity, US gasoline prices, propane, etc..
If a crook wants to steal, he needs the law to allow him to steal. That way it's legal.
No, a crook will always steal.
Post Enron we created this thing called Sarbanes-Oxley that again punishes law abiding companies and still allows crooks like Madoof to do his thing. You cannot prevent crooks from stealing you just need to make sure they are punished when caught.
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Quote Originally Posted by starwink:
Does the "Enron Loophole" ring any bells? Phil Gramm lobbied Congress to make this "minor" change in an energy bill.
The US has been raped by exploitation of this loophole ever since this law was enacted. California's electricity, US gasoline prices, propane, etc..
If a crook wants to steal, he needs the law to allow him to steal. That way it's legal.
No, a crook will always steal.
Post Enron we created this thing called Sarbanes-Oxley that again punishes law abiding companies and still allows crooks like Madoof to do his thing. You cannot prevent crooks from stealing you just need to make sure they are punished when caught.
Why does American have the best standard of living on the planet?
Last I checked it was Norway and Iceland that had the best. Canada was in 3rd or so. US was way down in like 14th place. with Austria and France.
Norway, Iceland, and Canada do not come close to providing the opportunities that the U.S. provides. No one is flocking to those nations - in contrast, people are coming over on rafts just for a shot at a piece of American pie.
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Quote Originally Posted by NASCAR-Sucks:
Why does American have the best standard of living on the planet?
Last I checked it was Norway and Iceland that had the best. Canada was in 3rd or so. US was way down in like 14th place. with Austria and France.
Norway, Iceland, and Canada do not come close to providing the opportunities that the U.S. provides. No one is flocking to those nations - in contrast, people are coming over on rafts just for a shot at a piece of American pie.
capitalism is the best system, but you are wrong if you don't think it needs rules and regulation.
if there were no rules, everybody would still use slavery because its the cheapest form of labor and therefore maximizes profits. Rules and regulation also prevents "cronyism".
w/o rules peole are animals. Business is eat or be eaten. So it makes sense that people in business can be ruthless and just don't give a fuck who they effect as long as they get their own.
Business by nature is cutthroat. Regulation and oversight is needed to make sure the people with money don't manipulate government and laws. Money makes this whole system work because money equals power. If you don't have money, nobody gives a fuck what you think or want. Thats not the intention of democracy (or republic).
If you devalue money you take away their power. And with the possibility of rapid deflation I think these guys are probably just as scared.
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capitalism is the best system, but you are wrong if you don't think it needs rules and regulation.
if there were no rules, everybody would still use slavery because its the cheapest form of labor and therefore maximizes profits. Rules and regulation also prevents "cronyism".
w/o rules peole are animals. Business is eat or be eaten. So it makes sense that people in business can be ruthless and just don't give a fuck who they effect as long as they get their own.
Business by nature is cutthroat. Regulation and oversight is needed to make sure the people with money don't manipulate government and laws. Money makes this whole system work because money equals power. If you don't have money, nobody gives a fuck what you think or want. Thats not the intention of democracy (or republic).
If you devalue money you take away their power. And with the possibility of rapid deflation I think these guys are probably just as scared.
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