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WHY THAT WAS A CLEAR TOUCHDOWN ACCORDING TO THE NFL RULES

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Prospect
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Posted: #51
HIS ELBOW HITTING THE GROUND DID NOT CAUSE THE BALL TO COME OUT! THE GROUND CAUSED THE BALL TO COME OUT!
 
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Posted: #52
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

OK - Im going to try to say this SLOWLY - read it twice before you respond.

If you are chilling on the ground, you have established possession.  If your elbow hits the ground and the ball pops out SIMULTANEOUSLY, you have not established possesssion.

Possession is somewhere between an elbow hitting and chilling, it is a refs discretion - but certainly if the ball comes out BECAUSE your elbow hit the ground - you have not established possession.

Before you respond with a silly scenario, think.  Please.


Not the rule....Brother,,,,Good Try
 
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Posted: #53
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

If you have established possession in the field of play, then the "ground cant cause a fumble".

If there is a sideline play, or an endzone play - in order to establish possession, you have to control it AFTER hitting the ground.  If a guy gets 2 feet in bounds, and then falls out of bounds, and when he hits the ground the ball pops out - even though he had possession when his feet hit - IT IS NOT A CATCH.


let's not regard these NFL rules like the Constitution...they are open to interpretation and there is grey area

the trap you are falling for is the trap these refs have fallen for with the SUPER SLOW MO replay...a catch is a catch is a catch and since the inception of the league THAT has been a catch...then replay comes along, they slow down every frame of the play down to the thousandth of a second, look for the TINIEST ball movement, and call it an incompletion...

If technology advances far enough (which it will), we will have TV's in such extraordinary HI-Def, and Slow-Mo so fine tuned with a zoom in feature, we may be looking to see if his cuticles properly gripped the leather dimples of the ball as he was going down to determine a catch...we may even get to an atomic level...let's not split the atom here...a catch is a catch and if that wasn't one, the NFL should just hand the keys to the league over to Vince McMahon
 
Legend
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Posted: #54
Quote Originally Posted by KomebacKid:

HE STILL HAD POSSESSION WHEN HIS ELBOW HIT THE GROUND!

Look - I think the problem is that you define possession differently than the NFL does.

Possession in the NFL means that you maintain control of the ball through all impetus that a collision with the ground causes.  Not for a split second freeze on instant replay - but maintain control of the ball until the momentum that the ground causes on the body is complete.

Im getting tired, so come up with another scenario or one liner - get the last word - you win - the NFL is wrong - and so am I.

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Legend
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Posted: #55
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


let's not regard these NFL rules like the Constitution...they are open to interpretation and there is grey area

the trap you are falling for is the trap these refs have fallen for with the SUPER SLOW MO replay...a catch is a catch is a catch and since the inception of the league THAT has been a catch...then replay comes along, they slow down every frame of the play down to the thousandth of a second, look for the TINIEST ball movement, and call it an incompletion...

If technology advances far enough (which it will), we will have TV's in such extraordinary HI-Def, and Slow-Mo so fine tuned with a zoom in feature, we may be looking to see if his cuticles properly gripped the leather dimples of the ball as he was going down to determine a catch...we may even get to an atomic level...let's not split the atom here...a catch is a catch and if that wasn't one, the NFL should just hand the keys to the league over to Vince McMahon

Im not going to argue this.  Your problem is with the replay system - not the rule.

The rule is the rule, and Im explaining how they will call that every single time.

Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
 
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Posted: #56
Quote Originally Posted by scalabrine:


let's not regard these NFL rules like the Constitution...they are open to interpretation and there is grey area

the trap you are falling for is the trap these refs have fallen for with the SUPER SLOW MO replay...a catch is a catch is a catch and since the inception of the league THAT has been a catch...then replay comes along, they slow down every frame of the play down to the thousandth of a second, look for the TINIEST ball movement, and call it an incompletion...

If technology advances far enough (which it will), we will have TV's in such extraordinary HI-Def, and Slow-Mo so fine tuned with a zoom in feature, we may be looking to see if his cuticles properly gripped the leather dimples of the ball as he was going down to determine a catch...we may even get to an atomic level...let's not split the atom here...a catch is a catch and if that wasn't one, the NFL should just hand the keys to the league over to Vince McMahon


it's the rule you dislike then.  if enough dislike the rule in the nfl, they will change it.
 
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Posted: #57
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

Look - I think the problem is that you define possession differently than the NFL does.

Possession in the NFL means that you maintain control of the ball through all impetus that a collision with the ground causes.  Not for a split second freeze on instant replay - but maintain control of the ball until the momentum that the ground causes on the body is complete.

Im getting tired, so come up with another scenario or one liner - get the last word - you win - the NFL is wrong - and so am I.



40,000 posts of bullshit from this guy....
 
Legend
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Posted: #58

Quote Originally Posted by Robb52:



40,000 posts of bullshit from this guy....

Tell us what the rule is robb.

I guess me and the NFL is wrong, and you are right, so lets hear it.

Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
 
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Posted: #59
Can anyone find the actual NFL rule on this matter on the web somewhere?  If so, please copy and paste it into the thread. 
 
Prospect
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Posted: #60
By NFL Rules, you are down once your elbow hits the ground, maintaining possession.
 
Legend
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Posted: #61
 
WATCH AT THE 58 SECOND MARK.

Same exact thing.
 
 
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Prospect
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Posted: #62
ummm how am i a moron you dumbfuck? 
 
Prospect
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Posted: #63
First, I did not see the play in question so all I have to go on is what is posted.

Second, the rules on NFL.com are just a digest and are not useful for what is being described herein. The NFL wants you to purchase the official rule book every year. Amazon has the 2008 NFL Rule Book available. It is 289 pages long.

However, PDF's of the rule book can be found on the Internet if one so chooses. I have the 2006 and 2008 rule books in PDF form.

From what is described it would appear that vanzack is correct.

From both the 2006 and 2008 rule books (and this rule was not changed for 2009):

A.R. 8.10
While in midair, a receiver firmly takes hold of a pass, but loses possession of the ball when his shoulder lands on the ground with or without being contacted by an opponent.
Ruling: Incomplete pass. Receiver must hold onto the ball when he alights on the ground in order to complete the reception.

 
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Posted: #64
Quote Originally Posted by KomebacKid:

By NFL Rules, you are down once your elbow hits the ground, maintaining possession.


Produce the rule, section and article or the approved ruling as shown in the rule book that states that and if true I will be the first to back you up.

However, I don't see anything to support your statement in the official rule book.
 
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Posted: #65
Thanks for posting the rule.  I stand corrected from a post on another thread. 

 
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Posted: #66
Quote Originally Posted by Firebird27:

Thanks for posting the rule.  I stand corrected from a post on another thread. 



No problem. Glad to help out.
 
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Posted: #67
Quote Originally Posted by vanzack:

 
WATCH AT THE 58 SECOND MARK.

Same exact thing.
 
 

 

Thats a perfect throw,, damn it I may have to rethink Leinarts abilities and future status in the world of pro football.    Also there cant be a jury in America that could come up with a verdict of TD after watching that "precident" 
setting evidence...  

  I'm semi sad about how many posters on here are even arguing about this rule,,,, I had to verbally beat down serveral colleagues (bums) that were screaming that if that wasnt a catch there never has been a catch,,,,ect ect,,,  How can you rant in public if you dont know,,, I mean KNOW,  what your talking about....  oh wellI guess we all have that right.  

 
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Posted: #68
From Jerry Markbreit, the former NFL head official --

"A catch is made when a player secures possession of a pass in flight. If, in the process of making this catch, a player secures control of the ball prior to the ball touching the ground and control of the ball is maintained after hitting the ground, a successful catch is ruled."

My comment-
I watched that play and replay yesterday several times and can't believe it was not a TD. The player has complete possession, both feet down in the end zone before he landed on the ground. I saw many plays that is worst in completion that resulted in a TD. I have watched FB for 25 years so do not tell me I have not watched enought FB.
The first and greatest victory is to conquer self
 
MVP
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Posted: #69

    Catch in the End Zone

    Any eligible receiver who catches the ball, gains control and has two feet on the ground within the end zone, scores a touchdown.

The first and greatest victory is to conquer self
 
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Posted: #70
Quote Originally Posted by KomebacKid:

HIS ELBOW HITTING THE GROUND DID NOT CAUSE THE BALL TO COME OUT! THE GROUND CAUSED THE BALL TO COME OUT!

 

ok do you even read what you write? i usually dont comment on these types of things but its getting ridiculous. just live with the call, its the right call as the rule is stated. maybe the rule should be changed but its not. so too bad.

 
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Posted: #71
shouldve been a TD. as soon as he catches the ball and has 2 feet down, thats all that matters.
 
example, what if a player catches a ball in the endzone, gets both feet down and runs a few steps, then gets knocked over by a defenseive player and the ball comes out when he hits the ground? your telling me that wouldnt be a TD? whether a player falls or not after getting both feet down in the endzone and what happens after that fall is irrelevant.
 
 
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Posted: #72
Remember last year game between the Steelers and Titans. Santonio Holmes caught the ball land two feet in the end zone but the ball is outside, then he got pushed out -> that is still ruled a TD. Based on the ruling yesterday, then his spot should be count only after he hit the ground which is outside of the endzone.

Different rules would be brought up at different convenient time for the officiating crew
The first and greatest victory is to conquer self
 
Prospect
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Posted: #73
Really think that the NFL is really entertainment not a true sport. So many bogus plays and bad calls, looks like it's made for TV. How can 2 games that are supposed to be blow outs come down to the wire in back to back games.They really think that the public is totally DUMB!!!!!
 
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Posted: #74
Quote Originally Posted by raymour:

shouldve been a TD. as soon as he catches the ball and has 2 feet down, thats all that matters.
 
example, what if a player catches a ball in the endzone, gets both feet down and runs a few steps, then gets knocked over by a defenseive player and the ball comes out when he hits the ground? your telling me that wouldnt be a TD? whether a player falls or not after getting both feet down in the endzone and what happens after that fall is irrelevant.
 


Should have been, yes. However,  the official NFL rules of the game state the player must retain control after hitting the ground.

In your example it would be a touchdown as also stated in the rules:

A.R. 8.11
A runner (in full possession of the ball) is contacted by an opponent while he is attempting to gain yardage. The contact causes the runner to hit the ground, at which time the ball comes loose.
Ruling: Play is dead when the impact jars the ball loose. No fumble.

Note the first part is an example situation. It is the ruling part that is important. It would still apply in your example even though he was no longer trying to gain yardage.
 
 
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Posted: #75
Quote Originally Posted by gambling-devil:

Remember last year game between the Steelers and Titans. Santonio Holmes caught the ball land two feet in the end zone but the ball is outside, then he got pushed out -> that is still ruled a TD. Based on the ruling yesterday, then his spot should be count only after he hit the ground which is outside of the endzone.

Different rules would be brought up at different convenient time for the officiating crew


Nope. Did Holmes hit the ground? If so did he retain possession of the ball after hitting the ground?
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