MDAAKD......I am very saddened by your remarks. I told you that the VIKINGS were a very good team but they had arguably the worst QB in the NFL, and with the worst QB in the NFL they didnt stand a CHANCE at the SUPERBOWL. Now theyve added a HUGE HUGE upgrade and have finally given them a chance for a title. Congrats. You needed this BIG time.
I bash every team? ........I have no problem giving credit to Peyton or Tom Brady....why is that? Because they're actually GREAT players? silly me.
Big Ben is not an avg. QB. Average QBs don't win 2 SBs in 5 years, with or without a great D.
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Quote Originally Posted by samuelsosa:
MDAAKD......I am very saddened by your remarks. I told you that the VIKINGS were a very good team but they had arguably the worst QB in the NFL, and with the worst QB in the NFL they didnt stand a CHANCE at the SUPERBOWL. Now theyve added a HUGE HUGE upgrade and have finally given them a chance for a title. Congrats. You needed this BIG time.
I bash every team? ........I have no problem giving credit to Peyton or Tom Brady....why is that? Because they're actually GREAT players? silly me.
Big Ben is not an avg. QB. Average QBs don't win 2 SBs in 5 years, with or without a great D.
To say that Ben "manages games" is, I believe, a fallacy. In the last three years he has missed 2 games. So he has played in 46 games. For those games he has averaged 29.17 attempts per game. That is not someone that "manages games". He wins them. He had 469 attempts in '08 and in '06.
Here are some QB's from '08 and their number of attempts...
Rivers 478
Pennington 476
Warner 598
Brees 635
P. Manning 555
Rodgers 536
Schaub 380
Romo 450
Garcia 376
Cassel 516
Ryan 434
Eli 479
McNabb 571
Cutler 616
As you can see, Ben compares with many in that category. An important note: When you throw more passes, it doesn't make you better. It may be an indicator of many problems with your team, but it doesn't make you a better quarterback. I think we can all agree with that statement.
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To say that Ben "manages games" is, I believe, a fallacy. In the last three years he has missed 2 games. So he has played in 46 games. For those games he has averaged 29.17 attempts per game. That is not someone that "manages games". He wins them. He had 469 attempts in '08 and in '06.
Here are some QB's from '08 and their number of attempts...
Rivers 478
Pennington 476
Warner 598
Brees 635
P. Manning 555
Rodgers 536
Schaub 380
Romo 450
Garcia 376
Cassel 516
Ryan 434
Eli 479
McNabb 571
Cutler 616
As you can see, Ben compares with many in that category. An important note: When you throw more passes, it doesn't make you better. It may be an indicator of many problems with your team, but it doesn't make you a better quarterback. I think we can all agree with that statement.
In the first 2 years of his career he only averaged 14.56 att/game. That is managing games. But you still have to play well reguardless. And of course he did. His play was a big reason why they went 22-3 in the games he played. And more than likely he will lead them on another run in '09 to contend for the trophy again. And we'll still be discussing the same topic a year from now.
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In the first 2 years of his career he only averaged 14.56 att/game. That is managing games. But you still have to play well reguardless. And of course he did. His play was a big reason why they went 22-3 in the games he played. And more than likely he will lead them on another run in '09 to contend for the trophy again. And we'll still be discussing the same topic a year from now.
In the first 2 years of his career he only averaged 14.56 att/game. That is managing games. But you still have to play well reguardless. And of course he did. His play was a big reason why they went 22-3 in the games he played. And more than likely he will lead them on another run in '09 to contend for the trophy again. And we'll still be discussing the same topic a year from now.
If the Steelers have the number one ranked defense [and with LeBeau and those players there is a hell of a chance] you are damn right we will still be discussing this.
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Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
In the first 2 years of his career he only averaged 14.56 att/game. That is managing games. But you still have to play well reguardless. And of course he did. His play was a big reason why they went 22-3 in the games he played. And more than likely he will lead them on another run in '09 to contend for the trophy again. And we'll still be discussing the same topic a year from now.
If the Steelers have the number one ranked defense [and with LeBeau and those players there is a hell of a chance] you are damn right we will still be discussing this.
Football is a team game. QBs don't win games and they don't lose them, not alone. They are the single most important individual player on the field though.
Big Ben has a good chance to be a part of 4 or 5 Super Bowl winning teams from what I can tell. That is really impressive anyway you slice the bread.
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Football is a team game. QBs don't win games and they don't lose them, not alone. They are the single most important individual player on the field though.
Big Ben has a good chance to be a part of 4 or 5 Super Bowl winning teams from what I can tell. That is really impressive anyway you slice the bread.
Football is a team game. QBs don't win games and they don't lose them, not alone. They are the single most important individual player on the field though.
Big Ben has a good chance to be a part of 4 or 5 Super Bowl winning teams from what I can tell. That is really impressive anyway you slice the bread.
No one said it wasn't impressive. It's very impressive. Does that mean the defense hasn't been the most important factor? Not unless your a Steel homer.
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Quote Originally Posted by The Garfather:
Football is a team game. QBs don't win games and they don't lose them, not alone. They are the single most important individual player on the field though.
Big Ben has a good chance to be a part of 4 or 5 Super Bowl winning teams from what I can tell. That is really impressive anyway you slice the bread.
No one said it wasn't impressive. It's very impressive. Does that mean the defense hasn't been the most important factor? Not unless your a Steel homer.
If the Steelers D has a few key injuries before the playoffs, they may not have played in the SB. If Ben goes down with an injury before the playoffs start, they may not have played in the SB. You're not a Big Ben fan. And that's fine. But he's better than you think he is. Way better. Maybe someday you'll realize that. Maybe you wont. I'm guessing you will, but you'll never admit it. And that's fine. If you ever do come to the states in about 20 years you can see his bust in Canton, Ohio. It'll be there with all the other great players of all time.
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If the Steelers D has a few key injuries before the playoffs, they may not have played in the SB. If Ben goes down with an injury before the playoffs start, they may not have played in the SB. You're not a Big Ben fan. And that's fine. But he's better than you think he is. Way better. Maybe someday you'll realize that. Maybe you wont. I'm guessing you will, but you'll never admit it. And that's fine. If you ever do come to the states in about 20 years you can see his bust in Canton, Ohio. It'll be there with all the other great players of all time.
To say that Ben "manages games" is, I believe, a fallacy. In the last three years he has missed 2 games. So he has played in 46 games. For those games he has averaged 29.17 attempts per game. That is not someone that "manages games". He wins them. He had 469 attempts in '08 and in '06.
Here are some QB's from '08 and their number of attempts...
Rivers 478
Pennington 476
Warner 598
Brees 635
P. Manning 555
Rodgers 536
Schaub 380
Romo 450
Garcia 376
Cassel 516
Ryan 434
Eli 479
McNabb 571
Cutler 616
As you can see, Ben compares with many in that category. An important note: When you throw more passes, it doesn't make you better. It may be an indicator of many problems with your team, but it doesn't make you a better quarterback. I think we can all agree with that statement.
EXACTLY
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Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
To say that Ben "manages games" is, I believe, a fallacy. In the last three years he has missed 2 games. So he has played in 46 games. For those games he has averaged 29.17 attempts per game. That is not someone that "manages games". He wins them. He had 469 attempts in '08 and in '06.
Here are some QB's from '08 and their number of attempts...
Rivers 478
Pennington 476
Warner 598
Brees 635
P. Manning 555
Rodgers 536
Schaub 380
Romo 450
Garcia 376
Cassel 516
Ryan 434
Eli 479
McNabb 571
Cutler 616
As you can see, Ben compares with many in that category. An important note: When you throw more passes, it doesn't make you better. It may be an indicator of many problems with your team, but it doesn't make you a better quarterback. I think we can all agree with that statement.
Looking back and reading these posts I have to laugh. We go back and forth, calling each other idiots. It's funny. But seriously, I found an article that is pretty interesting. And of course it supports my argument that Ben is a top flight QB. A stud. A winner. A future Hall of Fame quarterback that will be considered as one of the greatest ever.
This article compares his numbers of his first five years with those of Brady, P. Manning, Aikman, Marino, Elway, and Montana.
GAMES WON
No QB in NFL history has won more games in his first five seasons than Ben Roethlisberger. As for winning percentage, only Tom Brady won more games that he started in his first five seasons than Ben did.
Ben Roethlisberger – 51 (71.8%)
Tom Brady and Dan Marino – 48 (77.4% and 69.6% respectively)
John Elway – 46 (67.6%)
Peyton Manning - 42 (52.5%)
Troy Aikman – 38 (55.9%)
Joe Montana - 28 (57.1%)
Of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks, Ben ranks second in Completion percentage.
Joe Montana – 63.5%
Roethlisberger – 62.4%
Peyton Manning – 62.1%
Troy Aikman – 62.0%
Tom Brady – 61.6%
Dan Marino – 60.6%
John Elway – 54.1%
Passing Yardage
I find this stat particularly interesting. Pittsburgh is historically a run first offense, yet Ben is ranked third in passing yardage among these QBs. His passing attempts are lower than every QB on the list save for Montana, yet he’s ranked third in overall yardage. See Yards/Attempt and Yards/Completion below.
Peyton Manning – 20,618
Dan Marino – 19,422
Ben Roethlisberger– 14,974
John Elway – 14,835
Tom Brady – 13,925
Troy Aikman – 13,627
Joe Montana – 11,979
TD Passes
In the scoring category, Ben is again ranked third among these Hall of Fame quarterbacks with 101 TDs thrown in his first five seasons. Equally as interesting is that his TD% is 5.3%, second on the list only to Dan Marino.
Dan Marino – 168 (TD% = 6.7)
Peyton Manning – 138 (TD% = 4.9)
Ben Roethlisberger – 101 (TD% - 5.3)
Tom Brady – 97 (TD% = 4.8)
John Elway – 85 (TD% = 3.9)
Joe Montana – 78 (TD% = 4.7)
Troy Aikman – 69 (TD% = 3.6)
Interceptions
Interceptions are an area where Ben is often criticized. Yet in this comparison of Hall of Fame quarterbacks, he is ranked fourth (not last), and threw 8, 11, and 31 fewer interceptions in his first 5 seasons as compared to Elway, Marino, and Manning, respectively. Also, it’s interesting to note that Peyton Manning had an interception percentage of 3.5 as compared to Ben’s 3.6.
Looking back and reading these posts I have to laugh. We go back and forth, calling each other idiots. It's funny. But seriously, I found an article that is pretty interesting. And of course it supports my argument that Ben is a top flight QB. A stud. A winner. A future Hall of Fame quarterback that will be considered as one of the greatest ever.
This article compares his numbers of his first five years with those of Brady, P. Manning, Aikman, Marino, Elway, and Montana.
GAMES WON
No QB in NFL history has won more games in his first five seasons than Ben Roethlisberger. As for winning percentage, only Tom Brady won more games that he started in his first five seasons than Ben did.
Ben Roethlisberger – 51 (71.8%)
Tom Brady and Dan Marino – 48 (77.4% and 69.6% respectively)
John Elway – 46 (67.6%)
Peyton Manning - 42 (52.5%)
Troy Aikman – 38 (55.9%)
Joe Montana - 28 (57.1%)
Of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks, Ben ranks second in Completion percentage.
Joe Montana – 63.5%
Roethlisberger – 62.4%
Peyton Manning – 62.1%
Troy Aikman – 62.0%
Tom Brady – 61.6%
Dan Marino – 60.6%
John Elway – 54.1%
Passing Yardage
I find this stat particularly interesting. Pittsburgh is historically a run first offense, yet Ben is ranked third in passing yardage among these QBs. His passing attempts are lower than every QB on the list save for Montana, yet he’s ranked third in overall yardage. See Yards/Attempt and Yards/Completion below.
Peyton Manning – 20,618
Dan Marino – 19,422
Ben Roethlisberger– 14,974
John Elway – 14,835
Tom Brady – 13,925
Troy Aikman – 13,627
Joe Montana – 11,979
TD Passes
In the scoring category, Ben is again ranked third among these Hall of Fame quarterbacks with 101 TDs thrown in his first five seasons. Equally as interesting is that his TD% is 5.3%, second on the list only to Dan Marino.
Dan Marino – 168 (TD% = 6.7)
Peyton Manning – 138 (TD% = 4.9)
Ben Roethlisberger – 101 (TD% - 5.3)
Tom Brady – 97 (TD% = 4.8)
John Elway – 85 (TD% = 3.9)
Joe Montana – 78 (TD% = 4.7)
Troy Aikman – 69 (TD% = 3.6)
Interceptions
Interceptions are an area where Ben is often criticized. Yet in this comparison of Hall of Fame quarterbacks, he is ranked fourth (not last), and threw 8, 11, and 31 fewer interceptions in his first 5 seasons as compared to Elway, Marino, and Manning, respectively. Also, it’s interesting to note that Peyton Manning had an interception percentage of 3.5 as compared to Ben’s 3.6.
Further evidence below that Ben gets the most out of his throws, averaging nearly 8 yards per attempt, a full yard per attempt above Brady and Elway.
Ben Roethlisberger – 7.9
Dan Marino – 7.8
Joe Montana and Peyton Manning – 7.3
Troy Aikman – 7.1
Tom Brady and John Elway – 6.9
Yards per Completion
Dan Marino – 12.8
John Elway – 12.7
Ben Roethlisberger – 12.6
Peyton Manning – 11.8
Troy Aikman – 11.4
Tom Brady – 11.2
Joe Montana – 7.3
Passer Rating
Obviously Dan Marino was off the charts as a pure passer. Roethlisberger keeps excellent company ranking third among the HoF quarterbacks.
Dan Marino – 94.1
Joe Montana - 90
Roethlisberger - 89.4
Tom Brady – 87.5
Peyton Manning – 85.6
Troy Aikman - 81
John Elway – 74.1
Sack Percentage
This is the other common area of critique when it comes to Ben, his sack numbers. So many factors contribute to this number – OL performance, the health of the running back corps, the QB play, his awareness of the pocket, strength of schedule, etc. Ben’s sack numbers have increased steadily over the past five seasons as follows – 30, 23, 46, 47, and 46. The Steelers offensive line has also diminished in skill and experience along the same five year curve and has contributed to the rise in sacks. Last year’s running back corps was decimated most of the season. And yes, “he may hold the ball too long,” but that is also his strength in making big plays (see yards/completion, yards/attempt, yardage, TDs, etc).
Dan Marino – 2.6%
Peyton Manning – 3.7%
Joe Montana – 5.4%
Tom Brady – 5.5%
John Elway – 6.2%
Troy Aikman – 6.8%
Ben Roethlisberger – 9.2%
Regular Season Statistical Summary
When you consider all of these statistical categories, there is no question Ben belongs with this group. Of the nine categories, Ben finishes first two times, second once, thired four times, fourth once, and seventh (last) only once. Clearly Ben’s numbers are better than average across the board against this group of exceptional peers.
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Yards per Attempt
Further evidence below that Ben gets the most out of his throws, averaging nearly 8 yards per attempt, a full yard per attempt above Brady and Elway.
Ben Roethlisberger – 7.9
Dan Marino – 7.8
Joe Montana and Peyton Manning – 7.3
Troy Aikman – 7.1
Tom Brady and John Elway – 6.9
Yards per Completion
Dan Marino – 12.8
John Elway – 12.7
Ben Roethlisberger – 12.6
Peyton Manning – 11.8
Troy Aikman – 11.4
Tom Brady – 11.2
Joe Montana – 7.3
Passer Rating
Obviously Dan Marino was off the charts as a pure passer. Roethlisberger keeps excellent company ranking third among the HoF quarterbacks.
Dan Marino – 94.1
Joe Montana - 90
Roethlisberger - 89.4
Tom Brady – 87.5
Peyton Manning – 85.6
Troy Aikman - 81
John Elway – 74.1
Sack Percentage
This is the other common area of critique when it comes to Ben, his sack numbers. So many factors contribute to this number – OL performance, the health of the running back corps, the QB play, his awareness of the pocket, strength of schedule, etc. Ben’s sack numbers have increased steadily over the past five seasons as follows – 30, 23, 46, 47, and 46. The Steelers offensive line has also diminished in skill and experience along the same five year curve and has contributed to the rise in sacks. Last year’s running back corps was decimated most of the season. And yes, “he may hold the ball too long,” but that is also his strength in making big plays (see yards/completion, yards/attempt, yardage, TDs, etc).
Dan Marino – 2.6%
Peyton Manning – 3.7%
Joe Montana – 5.4%
Tom Brady – 5.5%
John Elway – 6.2%
Troy Aikman – 6.8%
Ben Roethlisberger – 9.2%
Regular Season Statistical Summary
When you consider all of these statistical categories, there is no question Ben belongs with this group. Of the nine categories, Ben finishes first two times, second once, thired four times, fourth once, and seventh (last) only once. Clearly Ben’s numbers are better than average across the board against this group of exceptional peers.
Hall of Fame quarterbacks are expected to lead their teams to the playoffs, and ultimately to championships. We all know that unless a QB is an exceptional QB, like Dan Marino, not having Super Bowl titles is a big detractor to Hall of Fame consideration. In comparing the list of Hall of Fame QBs and their postseason performances, Ben again rises to the top.
Playoff Games Played
Ben leads the list in terms of playoff games played by the end of year five.
Ben Roethlisberger – 10
Tom Brady – 9
John Elway – 8
Troy Aikman – 7
Dan Marino and Joe Montana – 5
Peyton Manning – 3
Playoff Wins
Only Tom Brady, who was a perfect 9-0 in his first 5 years in playoff games, surpasses Ben's 8 playoff vicotories in his first five seasons.
Tom Brady – 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0
Playoff TDs Thrown
Ben Roethlisberger - 15
Troy Aikman and Dan Marino - 13
Tom Brady and John Elway - 11
Joe Montana - 10
Peyton Manning - 1
Total TDs thrown is a bit skewed, seeing as each of th eplayers played in a varied number of total playoff games. So to differently compare the QBs' TD effiiciencies, see th enext section, TD%.
Playoff TD Percentage
Troy Aikman - 7.0%
Joe Montana - 6.0%
Dan Marino - 5.6%
Ben Roethlisberger - 5.4%
John Elway - 4.4%
Tom Brady - 3.6%
Peyton Manning 1.0%
Playoff Interception %
Due to the varied nature of total number of games played, I've included on the interception percentages here, versus the total number of interceptions thrown.
Tom Brady - 1.0%
Peyton Manning 1.9%
Troy Aikman - 2.1%
Joe Montana - 3.6%
Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger - 4.3%
John Elway - 4.8%
Playoff Completion Percentage
Troy Aikman - 71.1%
Tom Brady - 62.5%
Ben Roethlisberger - 61.9%
Joe Montana - 60.5%
Dan Marino - 56.0%
John Elway - 51.6%
Peyton Manning - 47.6%
Playoff QB Rating
Troy Aikman - 111.2
Joe Montana - 89.8
Tom Brady - 88.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 87.2
Dan Marino - 79.4
John Elway - 71.8
Peyton Manning - 59.1
Playoff Super Bowl Titles Won
Tom Brady - 3
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino - 0
Post-Season Statistical Summary
Of these six statistical categories, Ben again proves to make himself at home with this elite list of QBs. He ranks first again twice, second twice, third once, fourth twice, and fifth once. Clearly he belongs in the same discussion with these other quarterbacks.
SUMMARY
It's almost silly at this point the lack of respcet Ben receives by fans and the media alike. There's no question, he's earned the respect that he's been missing. One of the silliest notions fans mutter is that Ben is great only because of the Steelers defense. True, the Steelers have had a great defense, but did any of them throw the balls that Ben threw? No one questioned Montana's supporting cast, or Brady's, or Aikman's - all of whom were necessary to getting their teams to Super Bowl victories. Ben, as you consider the stats laid out here, is as good a passer (or better) as any of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks at this point in his career.
In fact, based on these numbers alone, you can make the argument that in his first five years, Ben has surpassed the first five year output of Brady in many ways, and certainly all-around has outperformed Peyton's first five years.
Let the media treat the quarterbacks equally and fairly. Clearly Brady and manning were pre-ordained to be loved. And for some reasons, Ben was destined to be questioned (as Bradshaw was before him). But thankfully, numbers do not lie. Anyone with an objective eye who looks at Ben's performance as compared to these Hall of Fame quarterbacks cannot argue that he doesn't belong among the elite at this point in his young, illustrious career.
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POST SEASON COMPARISONS
Hall of Fame quarterbacks are expected to lead their teams to the playoffs, and ultimately to championships. We all know that unless a QB is an exceptional QB, like Dan Marino, not having Super Bowl titles is a big detractor to Hall of Fame consideration. In comparing the list of Hall of Fame QBs and their postseason performances, Ben again rises to the top.
Playoff Games Played
Ben leads the list in terms of playoff games played by the end of year five.
Ben Roethlisberger – 10
Tom Brady – 9
John Elway – 8
Troy Aikman – 7
Dan Marino and Joe Montana – 5
Peyton Manning – 3
Playoff Wins
Only Tom Brady, who was a perfect 9-0 in his first 5 years in playoff games, surpasses Ben's 8 playoff vicotories in his first five seasons.
Tom Brady – 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0
Playoff TDs Thrown
Ben Roethlisberger - 15
Troy Aikman and Dan Marino - 13
Tom Brady and John Elway - 11
Joe Montana - 10
Peyton Manning - 1
Total TDs thrown is a bit skewed, seeing as each of th eplayers played in a varied number of total playoff games. So to differently compare the QBs' TD effiiciencies, see th enext section, TD%.
Playoff TD Percentage
Troy Aikman - 7.0%
Joe Montana - 6.0%
Dan Marino - 5.6%
Ben Roethlisberger - 5.4%
John Elway - 4.4%
Tom Brady - 3.6%
Peyton Manning 1.0%
Playoff Interception %
Due to the varied nature of total number of games played, I've included on the interception percentages here, versus the total number of interceptions thrown.
Tom Brady - 1.0%
Peyton Manning 1.9%
Troy Aikman - 2.1%
Joe Montana - 3.6%
Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger - 4.3%
John Elway - 4.8%
Playoff Completion Percentage
Troy Aikman - 71.1%
Tom Brady - 62.5%
Ben Roethlisberger - 61.9%
Joe Montana - 60.5%
Dan Marino - 56.0%
John Elway - 51.6%
Peyton Manning - 47.6%
Playoff QB Rating
Troy Aikman - 111.2
Joe Montana - 89.8
Tom Brady - 88.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 87.2
Dan Marino - 79.4
John Elway - 71.8
Peyton Manning - 59.1
Playoff Super Bowl Titles Won
Tom Brady - 3
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino - 0
Post-Season Statistical Summary
Of these six statistical categories, Ben again proves to make himself at home with this elite list of QBs. He ranks first again twice, second twice, third once, fourth twice, and fifth once. Clearly he belongs in the same discussion with these other quarterbacks.
SUMMARY
It's almost silly at this point the lack of respcet Ben receives by fans and the media alike. There's no question, he's earned the respect that he's been missing. One of the silliest notions fans mutter is that Ben is great only because of the Steelers defense. True, the Steelers have had a great defense, but did any of them throw the balls that Ben threw? No one questioned Montana's supporting cast, or Brady's, or Aikman's - all of whom were necessary to getting their teams to Super Bowl victories. Ben, as you consider the stats laid out here, is as good a passer (or better) as any of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks at this point in his career.
In fact, based on these numbers alone, you can make the argument that in his first five years, Ben has surpassed the first five year output of Brady in many ways, and certainly all-around has outperformed Peyton's first five years.
Let the media treat the quarterbacks equally and fairly. Clearly Brady and manning were pre-ordained to be loved. And for some reasons, Ben was destined to be questioned (as Bradshaw was before him). But thankfully, numbers do not lie. Anyone with an objective eye who looks at Ben's performance as compared to these Hall of Fame quarterbacks cannot argue that he doesn't belong among the elite at this point in his young, illustrious career.
“You want to know what quarterbacks in modern history (since 1950) have been better than Roethlisberger through five seasons? None. Nobody. Not Joe Willie Namath, not Joe Montana, nobody. Big Ben is the only quarterback to win 51 games his first five seasons. That's three victories better than Otto Graham, Dan Marino, Tom Brady and John Elway. If I had to win a game to save my own life I'd take Roethlisberger over everybody who played in the NFL this season, and that includes everybody named Manning.”
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Michael Wilbon of ESPN on Roethlisberger...
“You want to know what quarterbacks in modern history (since 1950) have been better than Roethlisberger through five seasons? None. Nobody. Not Joe Willie Namath, not Joe Montana, nobody. Big Ben is the only quarterback to win 51 games his first five seasons. That's three victories better than Otto Graham, Dan Marino, Tom Brady and John Elway. If I had to win a game to save my own life I'd take Roethlisberger over everybody who played in the NFL this season, and that includes everybody named Manning.”
In closing, Roethlisberger is sprinting out the gates this year, leading the league with a 73.2 comp. % and he's third in passing yds/game with a 98.1 QB rating.
The numbers do not lie. The defense doesn't throw passes.
I don't know if he'll get five. That's pretty hard to do. But I wouldn't bet that he wont.
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In closing, Roethlisberger is sprinting out the gates this year, leading the league with a 73.2 comp. % and he's third in passing yds/game with a 98.1 QB rating.
The numbers do not lie. The defense doesn't throw passes.
I don't know if he'll get five. That's pretty hard to do. But I wouldn't bet that he wont.
Hall of Fame quarterbacks are expected to lead their teams to the playoffs, and ultimately to championships. We all know that unless a QB is an exceptional QB, like Dan Marino, not having Super Bowl titles is a big detractor to Hall of Fame consideration. In comparing the list of Hall of Fame QBs and their postseason performances, Ben again rises to the top.
Playoff Games Played
Ben leads the list in terms of playoff games played by the end of year five.
Ben Roethlisberger – 10
Tom Brady – 9
John Elway – 8
Troy Aikman – 7
Dan Marino and Joe Montana – 5
Peyton Manning – 3
Playoff Wins
Only Tom Brady, who was a perfect 9-0 in his first 5 years in playoff games, surpasses Ben's 8 playoff vicotories in his first five seasons.
Tom Brady – 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0
Playoff TDs Thrown
Ben Roethlisberger - 15
Troy Aikman and Dan Marino - 13
Tom Brady and John Elway - 11
Joe Montana - 10
Peyton Manning - 1
Total TDs thrown is a bit skewed, seeing as each of th eplayers played in a varied number of total playoff games. So to differently compare the QBs' TD effiiciencies, see th enext section, TD%.
Playoff TD Percentage
Troy Aikman - 7.0%
Joe Montana - 6.0%
Dan Marino - 5.6%
Ben Roethlisberger - 5.4%
John Elway - 4.4%
Tom Brady - 3.6%
Peyton Manning 1.0%
Playoff Interception %
Due to the varied nature of total number of games played, I've included on the interception percentages here, versus the total number of interceptions thrown.
Tom Brady - 1.0%
Peyton Manning 1.9%
Troy Aikman - 2.1%
Joe Montana - 3.6%
Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger - 4.3%
John Elway - 4.8%
Playoff Completion Percentage
Troy Aikman - 71.1%
Tom Brady - 62.5%
Ben Roethlisberger - 61.9%
Joe Montana - 60.5%
Dan Marino - 56.0%
John Elway - 51.6%
Peyton Manning - 47.6%
Playoff QB Rating
Troy Aikman - 111.2
Joe Montana - 89.8
Tom Brady - 88.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 87.2
Dan Marino - 79.4
John Elway - 71.8
Peyton Manning - 59.1
Playoff Super Bowl Titles Won
Tom Brady - 3
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino - 0
Post-Season Statistical Summary
Of these six statistical categories, Ben again proves to make himself at home with this elite list of QBs. He ranks first again twice, second twice, third once, fourth twice, and fifth once. Clearly he belongs in the same discussion with these other quarterbacks.
SUMMARY
It's almost silly at this point the lack of respcet Ben receives by fans and the media alike. There's no question, he's earned the respect that he's been missing. One of the silliest notions fans mutter is that Ben is great only because of the Steelers defense. True, the Steelers have had a great defense, but did any of them throw the balls that Ben threw? No one questioned Montana's supporting cast, or Brady's, or Aikman's - all of whom were necessary to getting their teams to Super Bowl victories. Ben, as you consider the stats laid out here, is as good a passer (or better) as any of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks at this point in his career.
In fact, based on these numbers alone, you can make the argument that in his first five years, Ben has surpassed the first five year output of Brady in many ways, and certainly all-around has outperformed Peyton's first five years.
Let the media treat the quarterbacks equally and fairly. Clearly Brady and manning were pre-ordained to be loved. And for some reasons, Ben was destined to be questioned (as Bradshaw was before him). But thankfully, numbers do not lie. Anyone with an objective eye who looks at Ben's performance as compared to these Hall of Fame quarterbacks cannot argue that he doesn't belong among the elite at this point in his young, illustrious career.
What the are you talking about???? John Elway has 2 rings and Manning has 1 ring. Marino has 0.
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Quote Originally Posted by SteelCash:
...continued
POST SEASON COMPARISONS
Hall of Fame quarterbacks are expected to lead their teams to the playoffs, and ultimately to championships. We all know that unless a QB is an exceptional QB, like Dan Marino, not having Super Bowl titles is a big detractor to Hall of Fame consideration. In comparing the list of Hall of Fame QBs and their postseason performances, Ben again rises to the top.
Playoff Games Played
Ben leads the list in terms of playoff games played by the end of year five.
Ben Roethlisberger – 10
Tom Brady – 9
John Elway – 8
Troy Aikman – 7
Dan Marino and Joe Montana – 5
Peyton Manning – 3
Playoff Wins
Only Tom Brady, who was a perfect 9-0 in his first 5 years in playoff games, surpasses Ben's 8 playoff vicotories in his first five seasons.
Tom Brady – 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 8
Troy Aikman – 6
John Elway and Joe Montana – 4
Dan Marino – 3
Peyton Manning – 0
Playoff TDs Thrown
Ben Roethlisberger - 15
Troy Aikman and Dan Marino - 13
Tom Brady and John Elway - 11
Joe Montana - 10
Peyton Manning - 1
Total TDs thrown is a bit skewed, seeing as each of th eplayers played in a varied number of total playoff games. So to differently compare the QBs' TD effiiciencies, see th enext section, TD%.
Playoff TD Percentage
Troy Aikman - 7.0%
Joe Montana - 6.0%
Dan Marino - 5.6%
Ben Roethlisberger - 5.4%
John Elway - 4.4%
Tom Brady - 3.6%
Peyton Manning 1.0%
Playoff Interception %
Due to the varied nature of total number of games played, I've included on the interception percentages here, versus the total number of interceptions thrown.
Tom Brady - 1.0%
Peyton Manning 1.9%
Troy Aikman - 2.1%
Joe Montana - 3.6%
Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisberger - 4.3%
John Elway - 4.8%
Playoff Completion Percentage
Troy Aikman - 71.1%
Tom Brady - 62.5%
Ben Roethlisberger - 61.9%
Joe Montana - 60.5%
Dan Marino - 56.0%
John Elway - 51.6%
Peyton Manning - 47.6%
Playoff QB Rating
Troy Aikman - 111.2
Joe Montana - 89.8
Tom Brady - 88.9
Ben Roethlisberger - 87.2
Dan Marino - 79.4
John Elway - 71.8
Peyton Manning - 59.1
Playoff Super Bowl Titles Won
Tom Brady - 3
Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Aikman - 2
Joe Montana - 1
John Elway, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino - 0
Post-Season Statistical Summary
Of these six statistical categories, Ben again proves to make himself at home with this elite list of QBs. He ranks first again twice, second twice, third once, fourth twice, and fifth once. Clearly he belongs in the same discussion with these other quarterbacks.
SUMMARY
It's almost silly at this point the lack of respcet Ben receives by fans and the media alike. There's no question, he's earned the respect that he's been missing. One of the silliest notions fans mutter is that Ben is great only because of the Steelers defense. True, the Steelers have had a great defense, but did any of them throw the balls that Ben threw? No one questioned Montana's supporting cast, or Brady's, or Aikman's - all of whom were necessary to getting their teams to Super Bowl victories. Ben, as you consider the stats laid out here, is as good a passer (or better) as any of these Hall of Fame quarterbacks at this point in his career.
In fact, based on these numbers alone, you can make the argument that in his first five years, Ben has surpassed the first five year output of Brady in many ways, and certainly all-around has outperformed Peyton's first five years.
Let the media treat the quarterbacks equally and fairly. Clearly Brady and manning were pre-ordained to be loved. And for some reasons, Ben was destined to be questioned (as Bradshaw was before him). But thankfully, numbers do not lie. Anyone with an objective eye who looks at Ben's performance as compared to these Hall of Fame quarterbacks cannot argue that he doesn't belong among the elite at this point in his young, illustrious career.
What the are you talking about???? John Elway has 2 rings and Manning has 1 ring. Marino has 0.
I'm 35 and my goal is that the Jets win ONE Super Bowl before I kick the bucket!!
lol i fucking agree - wtf. fuck the steelers. they are going to lose to detroit i hope this week. sorry i live among die hard steelers fans - makes me angry
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Quote Originally Posted by Scooter23:
I'm 35 and my goal is that the Jets win ONE Super Bowl before I kick the bucket!!
lol i fucking agree - wtf. fuck the steelers. they are going to lose to detroit i hope this week. sorry i live among die hard steelers fans - makes me angry
steelcash... aikman has three rings...by the way.......................................big ben is a future hall of famer, as well as brady, no doubt about it, but, big ben might not live long enough to even watch 3 more super bowls if his o line dosent protect him better, unless they hire the refs from the baltimore NE game as their personal refs!!!!
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steelcash... aikman has three rings...by the way.......................................big ben is a future hall of famer, as well as brady, no doubt about it, but, big ben might not live long enough to even watch 3 more super bowls if his o line dosent protect him better, unless they hire the refs from the baltimore NE game as their personal refs!!!!
I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
well said.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I guess I have to bring reality to the table as usual.
2008 Ben was ranked 24th in QB rating with a stellar 80 rating. He ranks 17th in yards per attempt, 21st in completion percentage. He ranked 4th in INT's thrown, 15th in TDs thrown. I wont get into sacks because he scrambles more and sacks is an inaccurate stat, but that said he was second in sacks and given his INT to TD ratio and his INT to completion percentage, he is making bad decisions on a regular basis.
He had ONE good year, two below average years and two which were also above average.
Do something for me, in the 5 years that Ben has been in the league, how did the Stillers rank defensively in those years? A GREAT defense covers up offensive mistakes and he hasnt been required to carry a team like others..say Brees or Warner or Rivers.
2007 helped his TD/INT stats but outside that year he is very average and I would be shocked if he has another 2007 for the rest of his career.
Ben in the beneficiary of a great team, a great defense, a great offensive line, he is average per his abilities and how he would fare on a bad team.
F*ck Pukesburgh!! They won't even make the playoffs this year (mark it). Cinn and Balt will be playing for the division with the loser snagging a wild card. The other wild card will go to the Broncos or Chargers. Get off your high horse PLEASE! Pukes beat Seattle (refs helped) and Arizona (Holmes makes lucky grab) for their Super Bowls. IF they ever make it back they better hope the 49ers or Rams are representing the NFC. Pukes wouldn't stand a chance against GOOD NFC teams like Minny, Philly, NYG, NO, Atl. Not to mention they won't get past Balt, Cinn, NE, NYJ, and possibly Den to even reach the SB
War motorcycles and raping women (allegely)
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F*ck Pukesburgh!! They won't even make the playoffs this year (mark it). Cinn and Balt will be playing for the division with the loser snagging a wild card. The other wild card will go to the Broncos or Chargers. Get off your high horse PLEASE! Pukes beat Seattle (refs helped) and Arizona (Holmes makes lucky grab) for their Super Bowls. IF they ever make it back they better hope the 49ers or Rams are representing the NFC. Pukes wouldn't stand a chance against GOOD NFC teams like Minny, Philly, NYG, NO, Atl. Not to mention they won't get past Balt, Cinn, NE, NYJ, and possibly Den to even reach the SB
F*ck Pukesburgh!! They won't even make the playoffs this year (mark it). Cinn and Balt will be playing for the division with the loser snagging a wild card. The other wild card will go to the Broncos or Chargers. Get off your high horse PLEASE! Pukes beat Seattle (refs helped) and Arizona (Holmes makes lucky grab) for their Super Bowls. IF they ever make it back they better hope the 49ers or Rams are representing the NFC. Pukes wouldn't stand a chance against GOOD NFC teams like Minny, Philly, NYG, NO, Atl. Not to mention they won't get past Balt, Cinn, NE, NYJ, and possibly Den to even reach the SB
War motorcycles and raping women (allegely)
C'mon dude... they beat the teams representing the NFC. It's not their fault that Philly couldn't beat Zona last year in the NFC Championship. And by the way the Cards were playing some damn good football last January and were the most potent offense in the entire league. My boys on D held them to just 23 points and scored 7 themselves (a net of 16 points).
As far as Cincy and Balty go, we'll see wont we. Meanwhile, the Steelers are still the best team in the division. With that defense and the emergence of Mike Wallace and Mendenhall, the offense is only getting better. Add to that Big Ben is having a stellar season. The Steelers dont have to prove they are better than these teams because most everyone knows they are. And those teams you mentioned above... the Steelers may be better than every one of them. Right now, as a matter of fact, you can't truly say otherwise. Maybe later, maybe not. But you can't say right now that Pittsburgh isn't possibly the best team in the league in my opinion. It's arguable. There are teams that may be better. But until they play 16 games and through the playoffs, we just dont know. Besides, it's really pointless who is playing the best now. The Steelers already proved you need to be the best in December and January. Nothing else matters.
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Quote Originally Posted by mpigpen16:
F*ck Pukesburgh!! They won't even make the playoffs this year (mark it). Cinn and Balt will be playing for the division with the loser snagging a wild card. The other wild card will go to the Broncos or Chargers. Get off your high horse PLEASE! Pukes beat Seattle (refs helped) and Arizona (Holmes makes lucky grab) for their Super Bowls. IF they ever make it back they better hope the 49ers or Rams are representing the NFC. Pukes wouldn't stand a chance against GOOD NFC teams like Minny, Philly, NYG, NO, Atl. Not to mention they won't get past Balt, Cinn, NE, NYJ, and possibly Den to even reach the SB
War motorcycles and raping women (allegely)
C'mon dude... they beat the teams representing the NFC. It's not their fault that Philly couldn't beat Zona last year in the NFC Championship. And by the way the Cards were playing some damn good football last January and were the most potent offense in the entire league. My boys on D held them to just 23 points and scored 7 themselves (a net of 16 points).
As far as Cincy and Balty go, we'll see wont we. Meanwhile, the Steelers are still the best team in the division. With that defense and the emergence of Mike Wallace and Mendenhall, the offense is only getting better. Add to that Big Ben is having a stellar season. The Steelers dont have to prove they are better than these teams because most everyone knows they are. And those teams you mentioned above... the Steelers may be better than every one of them. Right now, as a matter of fact, you can't truly say otherwise. Maybe later, maybe not. But you can't say right now that Pittsburgh isn't possibly the best team in the league in my opinion. It's arguable. There are teams that may be better. But until they play 16 games and through the playoffs, we just dont know. Besides, it's really pointless who is playing the best now. The Steelers already proved you need to be the best in December and January. Nothing else matters.
........I have no problem giving credit to Peyton or Tom Brady....why is that? Because they're actually GREAT players? silly me.
are you talking about???? John Elway has 2 rings and Manning has 1 ring. Marino has 0. 
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