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    All Forums | NFL Betting Forum

    Giants backers - you have less than 24 hours to talk me out of betting the Patriots

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    3rd_and_Long
    whereismyhat
    wallstreetcappers
    BigEastExpert
    KOAJ
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    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:17 PM ET #1

    I'm not trying to start trouble here, I'm just making a point. I have yet to see one valid reason for me to put my money on the Giants tomorrow, just a whole lot of smack talk. Consider this a challenge, give me some reasons, and don't just spit back everything the media has been feeding you for the last 2 weeks. Break this game down and tell me how the Giants cover.
     
    GO!
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    To remove first post, remove entire topic.
    I'm not trying to start trouble here, I'm just making a point. I have yet to see one valid reason for me to put my money on the Giants tomorrow, just a whole lot of smack talk. Consider this a challenge, give me some reasons, and don't just spit back everything the media has been feeding you for the last 2 weeks. Break this game down and tell me how the Giants cover.
     
    GO!
     
    whereismyhat
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:18 PM ET #2

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    wallstreetcappers
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:20 PM ET #3

    Well it wont be based on the offense.

    If you think the Giants defense can contain the Pats offense, you bet on the Giants because the Pats defense isnt that great and the Giants WILL score.

    To me this comes down to the Giants D vs the Pats O..

    What I have seen of the Pats O the last few games, makes me wonder how they are going to score a ton of points on the Giants.

    No play for me yet.
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    Well it wont be based on the offense.

    If you think the Giants defense can contain the Pats offense, you bet on the Giants because the Pats defense isnt that great and the Giants WILL score.

    To me this comes down to the Giants D vs the Pats O..

    What I have seen of the Pats O the last few games, makes me wonder how they are going to score a ton of points on the Giants.

    No play for me yet.
     
    BigEastExpert
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:21 PM ET #4

    Giants backers...still waiting for some masterful writing on the game breakdown....
     
    Tick, tick, tick, tick...
     
     
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    Giants backers...still waiting for some masterful writing on the game breakdown....
     
    Tick, tick, tick, tick...
     
     
     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:21 PM ET #5

    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect

    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day
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    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect

    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day
     
    Vic-Vega
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:24 PM ET #6

    3rd_and_Long

    Stay with your Patriots bet. Play the "Pocket Aces".

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    3rd_and_Long

    Stay with your Patriots bet. Play the "Pocket Aces".

     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:24 PM ET #7

    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Well it wont be based on the offense.

    If you think the Giants defense can contain the Pats offense, you bet on the Giants because the Pats defense isnt that great and the Giants WILL score.

    To me this comes down to the Giants D vs the Pats O..

    What I have seen of the Pats O the last few games, makes me wonder how they are going to score a ton of points on the Giants.

    No play for me yet.

     That's a start. Thanks, my faith in Covers is renewed.

    I'm just trying to get people to cut the bullshit and THINK.

    How does this Giants D compare to Jax & San Diego? I mean they did give up 38 points at home to this same Pats team, minus half of the starting o-line. How do they stop that from happening in beautiful weather conditions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

    Well it wont be based on the offense.

    If you think the Giants defense can contain the Pats offense, you bet on the Giants because the Pats defense isnt that great and the Giants WILL score.

    To me this comes down to the Giants D vs the Pats O..

    What I have seen of the Pats O the last few games, makes me wonder how they are going to score a ton of points on the Giants.

    No play for me yet.

     That's a start. Thanks, my faith in Covers is renewed.

    I'm just trying to get people to cut the bullshit and THINK.

    How does this Giants D compare to Jax & San Diego? I mean they did give up 38 points at home to this same Pats team, minus half of the starting o-line. How do they stop that from happening in beautiful weather conditions?

     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:27 PM ET #8

    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect


    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    I already know you are capable of objective thinking.

    I'm just trying to help these guys out that are on taking the points as a reflex without thinking it through.

    That's a whole bunch of things that need to go the Giants way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect


    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    I already know you are capable of objective thinking.

    I'm just trying to help these guys out that are on taking the points as a reflex without thinking it through.

    That's a whole bunch of things that need to go the Giants way.

     
    KOAJ
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:32 PM ET #9

    thats just the tip of the ice berg...those are things the giants have to do right as opposed to things they need the pats to do wrong
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    thats just the tip of the ice berg...those are things the giants have to do right as opposed to things they need the pats to do wrong
     
    angelobruno
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:33 PM ET #10

    im on the pats but anything can happen in a ONE game setting
    like some others said if they can get pressure on brady and not just pressure im talking about knockdowns and sacks they have a chance .
    also if manning can get matchups against the pats old linebackers they will most def win that matchup plus they must establish a good ground game and keep the pats d on the field for long drives
     
    its possible but not probable thats why i prolly play pats
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    im on the pats but anything can happen in a ONE game setting
    like some others said if they can get pressure on brady and not just pressure im talking about knockdowns and sacks they have a chance .
    also if manning can get matchups against the pats old linebackers they will most def win that matchup plus they must establish a good ground game and keep the pats d on the field for long drives
     
    its possible but not probable thats why i prolly play pats
     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:35 PM ET #11

    Here's what the Giants have to stop tomorrow --
     
    1- Perhaps the best offensive line in football.
    2- Maroney, who is running very well, and is fresh.
    3- Faulk out of the backfield
    4- Welker - how do you cover him?
    5- Moss - speed kills
    6- Stallworth, can't forget him.
    7- Ben Watson, just in case you are busy with everyone else, he may be open too.
     
    8 - Oh yeah, that Tom Brady guy. Did you know he's only been sacked 26 times all year including the playoffs? Should you blitz him? With who, the corners? Maybe you should just drop back into coverage and give him all day to find the open man? Tough call there.
     
    I'm pretty sure the Patriots will get some points tomorrow. Scored 38 against these guys in their house in bad weather, what happens in perfect conditions with two weeks to prepare?
     
     
     
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    Here's what the Giants have to stop tomorrow --
     
    1- Perhaps the best offensive line in football.
    2- Maroney, who is running very well, and is fresh.
    3- Faulk out of the backfield
    4- Welker - how do you cover him?
    5- Moss - speed kills
    6- Stallworth, can't forget him.
    7- Ben Watson, just in case you are busy with everyone else, he may be open too.
     
    8 - Oh yeah, that Tom Brady guy. Did you know he's only been sacked 26 times all year including the playoffs? Should you blitz him? With who, the corners? Maybe you should just drop back into coverage and give him all day to find the open man? Tough call there.
     
    I'm pretty sure the Patriots will get some points tomorrow. Scored 38 against these guys in their house in bad weather, what happens in perfect conditions with two weeks to prepare?
     
     
     
     
    BustinPiles
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:37 PM ET #12

    Well I guess the obvious answer is they played them toe-toe just to end the regular season.
     
    Eli seems to have more confidence and playing better than I have seen him as  a pro... I dunno I wonder if Shockey was part of the problem?
     
    That being said I still like NE as they will be prepared for this team under ideal climate conditions.... Pats by 17
     
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    Well I guess the obvious answer is they played them toe-toe just to end the regular season.
     
    Eli seems to have more confidence and playing better than I have seen him as  a pro... I dunno I wonder if Shockey was part of the problem?
     
    That being said I still like NE as they will be prepared for this team under ideal climate conditions.... Pats by 17
     
     
    baskets4money
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:42 PM ET #13

    The Giants have a lot of young rookies that had a big impact on their success this year, but they are just rookies and have a lot of maturing to do. Eli Manning has never faced this kind of pressure and although I think he can handle it, I don't think he will be at his best. The Giants kicker has the flu. I am sure he is going to play, but it takes a good week to fully recover from something like that. The Super Bowl is not a game but more of an event. The Patriots have been on this stage before and know how to handle it. New York has a lot of injuries and young guys in their secondary and it will probably be too much to handle New England's great receivers in Welker and Moss. Lawrence Maroney has been running the ball with power and to be honest I can’t find one flaw in the New England offense at all. Sure, they give up a few points on defense, but they have a bend but don't break mentality and always seem to come up with a key turnover at the right time.PATS GET R DONE
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    The Giants have a lot of young rookies that had a big impact on their success this year, but they are just rookies and have a lot of maturing to do. Eli Manning has never faced this kind of pressure and although I think he can handle it, I don't think he will be at his best. The Giants kicker has the flu. I am sure he is going to play, but it takes a good week to fully recover from something like that. The Super Bowl is not a game but more of an event. The Patriots have been on this stage before and know how to handle it. New York has a lot of injuries and young guys in their secondary and it will probably be too much to handle New England's great receivers in Welker and Moss. Lawrence Maroney has been running the ball with power and to be honest I can’t find one flaw in the New England offense at all. Sure, they give up a few points on defense, but they have a bend but don't break mentality and always seem to come up with a key turnover at the right time.PATS GET R DONE
     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:45 PM ET #14

    Ok, before someone tells me that the Pats D is old and tired, what weapons do the Giants have to exploit them?
     
    Burress - stud, no doubt. Can he continue to have monster games when everyone knows he's the guy?
     
    Toomer - Not a deep threat, but tough, and he's been clutch.
     
    Smith? Lot's of talent, but tough spot for a kid to step it up.
     
    Boss? Please, don't even go there.
     
    Eli? Really, Eli? Ok, the kid's had a nice run the last few weeks, but it's still Eli. Grossman had some good games last year too.
     
    Maybe they can just run, run and run some more. Control the clock, keep it out of Brady's hands. Good running game, but is that the answer? What if they are down 14, can they keep on running? Can Eli keep playing mistake free football?
     
    The only way I can see the Giants keeping it close is to make the Patriots go short with everything, and then tackle. Is the secondary capable of this? They can't blitz and get away with it, can they?
     
    Sure, it's one game, anything can happen. I could be wrong. But everything I'm seeing says Patriots blowout. I hate the Patriots, I kinda like the Giants, but that doesn't get me paid.
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    Ok, before someone tells me that the Pats D is old and tired, what weapons do the Giants have to exploit them?
     
    Burress - stud, no doubt. Can he continue to have monster games when everyone knows he's the guy?
     
    Toomer - Not a deep threat, but tough, and he's been clutch.
     
    Smith? Lot's of talent, but tough spot for a kid to step it up.
     
    Boss? Please, don't even go there.
     
    Eli? Really, Eli? Ok, the kid's had a nice run the last few weeks, but it's still Eli. Grossman had some good games last year too.
     
    Maybe they can just run, run and run some more. Control the clock, keep it out of Brady's hands. Good running game, but is that the answer? What if they are down 14, can they keep on running? Can Eli keep playing mistake free football?
     
    The only way I can see the Giants keeping it close is to make the Patriots go short with everything, and then tackle. Is the secondary capable of this? They can't blitz and get away with it, can they?
     
    Sure, it's one game, anything can happen. I could be wrong. But everything I'm seeing says Patriots blowout. I hate the Patriots, I kinda like the Giants, but that doesn't get me paid.
     
    The Giant
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:57 PM ET #15

    Here is my only argument:
     
    The line seems kind of low.  The Patriots were favored by an even bigger number in New York, so you would think on a neutral field the line would be higher.
     
    I realize that was week 17, and there were concerns about the Giants playing all of their starters.  I just thought this line would be higher, at least 14.5 or so.
     
    Doesn't it seem odd that this is the "greatest team ever", that is playing a wildcard team, yet there have been Super Bowls with higher lines?
     
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    Here is my only argument:
     
    The line seems kind of low.  The Patriots were favored by an even bigger number in New York, so you would think on a neutral field the line would be higher.
     
    I realize that was week 17, and there were concerns about the Giants playing all of their starters.  I just thought this line would be higher, at least 14.5 or so.
     
    Doesn't it seem odd that this is the "greatest team ever", that is playing a wildcard team, yet there have been Super Bowls with higher lines?
     
     
    danstyk
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 9:58 PM ET #16

    Jim Brown visited the Patriots yesterday for a little inspirational talk.  Not that he was any good, or knew anything about winning or playing hard.  Oh, and now Eagles fan Arlen Specter raises the spygate question again.  Good timing... I'm sure Tom Coughlin was psyched to see that.  Otherwise Plax's knee is still swollen, and Tommy's ankle feels great. 

    How am I doing 3rd?  Did I convince you of a Giant win yet?


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    Jim Brown visited the Patriots yesterday for a little inspirational talk.  Not that he was any good, or knew anything about winning or playing hard.  Oh, and now Eagles fan Arlen Specter raises the spygate question again.  Good timing... I'm sure Tom Coughlin was psyched to see that.  Otherwise Plax's knee is still swollen, and Tommy's ankle feels great. 

    How am I doing 3rd?  Did I convince you of a Giant win yet?


     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:03 PM ET #17

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:

    Here is my only argument:
     
    The line seems kind of low.  The Patriots were favored by an even bigger number in New York, so you would think on a neutral field the line would be higher.
     
    I realize that was week 17, and there were concerns about the Giants playing all of their starters.  I just thought this line would be higher, at least 14.5 or so.
     
    Doesn't it seem odd that this is the "greatest team ever", that is playing a wildcard team, yet there have been Super Bowls with higher lines?
     

    That's a good point. My thoughts on the line --

    1- This was already out as a future at AFC -13

    2- Patriots haven't covered a spread that high in a while, even though they came close against Jax. Everybody knows that going against NE for the last 10 weeks has been money.

    3- New York money. Anytime NY or Chicago are in a big game, they get a ton of action.

    As far as the prior line in week 17, the line was set with the expectation that NY would rest their starters.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant:

    Here is my only argument:
     
    The line seems kind of low.  The Patriots were favored by an even bigger number in New York, so you would think on a neutral field the line would be higher.
     
    I realize that was week 17, and there were concerns about the Giants playing all of their starters.  I just thought this line would be higher, at least 14.5 or so.
     
    Doesn't it seem odd that this is the "greatest team ever", that is playing a wildcard team, yet there have been Super Bowls with higher lines?
     

    That's a good point. My thoughts on the line --

    1- This was already out as a future at AFC -13

    2- Patriots haven't covered a spread that high in a while, even though they came close against Jax. Everybody knows that going against NE for the last 10 weeks has been money.

    3- New York money. Anytime NY or Chicago are in a big game, they get a ton of action.

    As far as the prior line in week 17, the line was set with the expectation that NY would rest their starters.

     

     
    CapOrDie
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:06 PM ET #18

    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect


    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    all valid points. and you are right, the only way they can win is to play the perfect game. doing every single one of the above things., is the only way to slay the dragon. 

    I think they should have sucess running inside the tackles, both jacobs and bradshaw are great running inside and are licking thier chops righ tnow. This should help for clock management and keeping brady and the pats defense off the field.

    and yes, they must rush 4 almost every play, while still limiting the over the top pass to moss, and the short slants to welker in the slot. they have to play bump and run and moss, the only way to limit him is to be physical, like the eagles did.

     

    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    could it be any worse for us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOAJ:

    if the giants can get consistent pressure with their front 4

    if they can play mistake free

    if they can keep it low scoring and run the ball...a lot

    if they dont have the dropsies like they have had all season

    if they can get very physical with moss and welker

    if they dont kick any field goals in the red zone (SD) and only score touchdowns

    then they have a chance to win...cant have 4 out of 5. to beat perfect you have to be perfect


    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    all valid points. and you are right, the only way they can win is to play the perfect game. doing every single one of the above things., is the only way to slay the dragon. 

    I think they should have sucess running inside the tackles, both jacobs and bradshaw are great running inside and are licking thier chops righ tnow. This should help for clock management and keeping brady and the pats defense off the field.

    and yes, they must rush 4 almost every play, while still limiting the over the top pass to moss, and the short slants to welker in the slot. they have to play bump and run and moss, the only way to limit him is to be physical, like the eagles did.

     

    just being objective...as a jets fan, tomorrow will not be a good day

    could it be any worse for us?

     
    ravenzone
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:07 PM ET #19

    Good thread so far
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    Good thread so far
     
    CapOrDie
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:11 PM ET #20

    the pats have too much speed on the outside, but if the g-men can win the war up front like they did last time these two matched up, they should be able to run in between the tackles
     
    only way to run on the pats
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    the pats have too much speed on the outside, but if the g-men can win the war up front like they did last time these two matched up, they should be able to run in between the tackles
     
    only way to run on the pats
     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:13 PM ET #21

    I think people are overestimating the Giants defense here. Last three games, beat an anemic Tampa Bay team, played almost a perfect game against the Cowboys (although I'm still trying to figure out why the Boys abandoned the run in the 2nd half and was TO anywhere near 100%?) and beat Green Bay in bad weather by taking the run away - Favre failed miserably.
     
    I have my doubts about them, and if my take is wrong I can lose this bet - this is my ONLY concern.
     
    I'm done, I watched a lot of people take the Bears last year without giving it a second thought, and I think I'm seeing the same thing here with the Giants. If you are on the Giants, think it through please.
     
    Good luck tomorrow everyone, please keep the bashing to a minimum.
     
      
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    I think people are overestimating the Giants defense here. Last three games, beat an anemic Tampa Bay team, played almost a perfect game against the Cowboys (although I'm still trying to figure out why the Boys abandoned the run in the 2nd half and was TO anywhere near 100%?) and beat Green Bay in bad weather by taking the run away - Favre failed miserably.
     
    I have my doubts about them, and if my take is wrong I can lose this bet - this is my ONLY concern.
     
    I'm done, I watched a lot of people take the Bears last year without giving it a second thought, and I think I'm seeing the same thing here with the Giants. If you are on the Giants, think it through please.
     
    Good luck tomorrow everyone, please keep the bashing to a minimum.
     
      
     
    BigZman
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:18 PM ET #22

    My condolences on being a Jets fan. 


    The two teams you hate the most are in the SB.

    The Jets will be good next year.  
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    My condolences on being a Jets fan. 


    The two teams you hate the most are in the SB.

    The Jets will be good next year.  
     
    Superfigg
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:19 PM ET #23

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd_and_Long:

    That's a good point. My thoughts on the line --

    1- This was already out as a future at AFC -13

    2- Patriots haven't covered a spread that high in a while, even though they came close against Jax. Everybody knows that going against NE for the last 10 weeks has been money.

    3- New York money. Anytime NY or Chicago are in a big game, they get a ton of action.

    As far as the prior line in week 17, the line was set with the expectation that NY would rest their starters.

     

     

    You are completely right about that,,,  Ny money is all going on the giants,,. im secretly taking the other side of at least 15 people

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd_and_Long:

    That's a good point. My thoughts on the line --

    1- This was already out as a future at AFC -13

    2- Patriots haven't covered a spread that high in a while, even though they came close against Jax. Everybody knows that going against NE for the last 10 weeks has been money.

    3- New York money. Anytime NY or Chicago are in a big game, they get a ton of action.

    As far as the prior line in week 17, the line was set with the expectation that NY would rest their starters.

     

     

    You are completely right about that,,,  Ny money is all going on the giants,,. im secretly taking the other side of at least 15 people

     
    The Giant
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:26 PM ET #24

    3rd - I like the counter arguments....it actually made sense and made me feel a little better.
     
    Good luck to us...
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    3rd - I like the counter arguments....it actually made sense and made me feel a little better.
     
    Good luck to us...
     
     
    3rd_and_Long
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    Posted: Feb. 2, 2008 - 10:27 PM ET #25

    Quote Originally Posted by danstyk:

    Jim Brown visited the Patriots yesterday for a little inspirational talk.  Not that he was any good, or knew anything about winning or playing hard.  Oh, and now Eagles fan Arlen Specter raises the spygate question again.  Good timing... I'm sure Tom Coughlin was psyched to see that.  Otherwise Plax's knee is still swollen, and Tommy's ankle feels great. 

    How am I doing 3rd?  Did I convince you of a Giant win yet?


    Almost as good as the argument that a Nun, a camel, and a tout who shall remain nameless have all picked the Giants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danstyk:

    Jim Brown visited the Patriots yesterday for a little inspirational talk.  Not that he was any good, or knew anything about winning or playing hard.  Oh, and now Eagles fan Arlen Specter raises the spygate question again.  Good timing... I'm sure Tom Coughlin was psyched to see that.  Otherwise Plax's knee is still swollen, and Tommy's ankle feels great. 

    How am I doing 3rd?  Did I convince you of a Giant win yet?


    Almost as good as the argument that a Nun, a camel, and a tout who shall remain nameless have all picked the Giants.

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